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doctor demo
12-31-2010, 12:46 PM
I needed to ''paint'' up some steel ,and when I opened up the bottle of blue die it looked like watered down iodine. Shaking and stirring had no affect. A few weeks or maybe a month ago it was fine. The bottle is probably 10 years old and with exception of using it occasionally it has been on the shelf in the same place for it's entire life.
Did it suddenly die, or did it die slowly over the last few weeks? Is there a way to resurrect it ?

Steve

squirrel
12-31-2010, 01:19 PM
That stuff smells like lacquer, so maybe some lacquer thinner will perk it back up. I am assuming by died you mean it has become a solid mass.

John Stevenson
12-31-2010, 01:37 PM
.


R.I.P. . .:p


.

JoeFin
12-31-2010, 02:24 PM
Did it Freeze ?

That will effect many water based paints even after they thaw out

Evan
12-31-2010, 02:46 PM
Try putting some baking soda in it to bring up the ph. The stuff goes bad with time and the colour disappears. It doesn't settle out because it is a dye and not a pigment. If the baking soda doesn't succeed then it is dead.

TGTool
12-31-2010, 03:22 PM
I've had the same thing happen with spotting blue. I was having a hell of a time making out the contact points because they were a very light blue which didn't stand out much from the background. Other people seemed to be able to see the spots just fine. When I got Michael Morgan's DVD with the video showing his spotting he had a wonderfully dark blue pattern. So I ordered a new tube of blue and it was a revelation. I don't know what happens to the dye or pigment but it somehow deteriorates.

38_Cal
12-31-2010, 04:03 PM
I've had a few containers of Dykem Blue die on me over the years. Something evaporates out/changes in the bottle. Like you said, seemingly overnight. I now mostly use a wide Magic Marker for layout. Different colors, even! Red shows up against blued gun steel quite a bit better than Dykem Blue.

David

Pherdie
12-31-2010, 04:29 PM
Hey Steve!

If you need some in a hurry, let me know.....

Fred

Alistair Hosie
12-31-2010, 04:31 PM
R.I.P. . .

rust in peace add some irish whuskey to it then drink it ol blue lips is back :D
Alistair

Evan
12-31-2010, 04:50 PM
The reason it happens "overnight" is because the solution is gradually becoming acidic as the dye breaks down. The dye acts as a pH indicator solution and is very sensitive to the exact pH. Within a very small range of pH it turns from dark blue to light pink. I haven't looked it up but I suspect the dye is methylene blue or something similar. It decomposes naturally to form acidic compounds such as CO2. As the solution becomes more acidic the decomposition accelerates as the acidic conditions promote decomposition. At some point the pH dividing line is crossed and the solution changes colour rapidly. Addition of a base material can bring it back to a dark blue if it hasn't entirely decomposed.

The layout dye is sensitive to oxygen and to light as well as acid. Any one or combination will cause it to degrade faster.

bborr01
12-31-2010, 05:12 PM
We used Dykem layout die in our tool rooms and die room. I believe it is alcohol based to make it dry out fast. We used denatured alcohol to thin it down.

If I was assigned to a non machining area for an extended period of time, my layout die would thicken up and not work well.

I would bring it to the crib and add a little alcohol. Works like a charm.

Brian

doctor demo
01-01-2011, 01:10 AM
If you need some in a hurry, let me know.....
Fred
Thanks Fred, When I needed it (in a hurry) on Thursday I went to Scott Machine and to Fastenall because I can throw a rock and hit them from the shop....but a wasted trip. So I improvised and used a marker.
Thought I would have heard from You this week on another mater.


Steve

bborr01
01-01-2011, 01:16 AM
Steve,

Have you tried mixing denatured alcohol with your layout die yet?

Brian

doctor demo
01-01-2011, 01:24 AM
To every one else that has offered a possible answer or fix, Thanks!

Well, I going to try the baking soda suggestion and see if it does anything. I have a bottle of red Dykem, or it was red the last time I saw it. If I can find it at home I'll take it to the shop on Monday.

It didn't get any warmer or colder recently than what it has been used to over the rest of it's life.

No it isn't a solid, it looks like John's day old coffee watered down with iodine and kerosene.

doctor demo
01-01-2011, 01:29 AM
Steve,

Have you tried mixing denatured alcohol with your layout die yet?

Brian

Nope, it is at the shop . The only alky that I've mixed today was some bourbon with a couple of ice cubes.

But I'll take some (denatured) not bourbon alky along with the baking soda on Monday and set up a chemistry experiment.

Steve

bborr01
01-01-2011, 01:38 AM
Never have heard of using baking soda until I read it in this thread.

Did however see alcohol work for many tradesmen over several decades.

Please let us know your results.

Brian

oldtiffie
01-01-2011, 08:47 AM
Toss it out and get a new (smaller?) bottle.

When its on its way out it sometimes need several coats and can "flake off" under a scriber or centre punch.

Some welding fluxes are just as bad.

Its a shop "consumable". Treat it like one.

The cost is all part of running a shop.

gwilson
01-01-2011, 09:49 AM
If your fluid flakes off,the surface needs to be cleaned with acetone.

bborr01
01-02-2011, 06:21 PM
Oops,

I forgot to mention that denatured alcohol will also remove the dried layout dye after you are done with laying things out and machining.

Brian

bborr01
01-07-2011, 02:10 PM
I have the drum roll going.

The results are............................................... .

HAP
01-07-2011, 02:33 PM
Does this happen more with Blue than Red. Need to pick some up today.
HAP

TGTool
01-07-2011, 03:56 PM
Does this happen more with Blue than Red. Need to pick some up today.
HAP

Yes, in my experience. I got one blue, one red several years ago. The blue died last year but the red shows no signs of flagging. Just as good as ever.

kc5ezc
01-07-2011, 05:33 PM
Jan: It happens with the purple pvc pipe cleaner also. The loss of color that is. I am going to see if I can get my old can from the trash and try Evan's ph trick.