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View Full Version : OT- New Car Purchase Done- FINALLY!



garagemark
01-01-2011, 07:43 AM
I wish to express my sincere thanks to all who participated in the thread concerning a new car for my wife. After a marathon of looking at cars, reading reviews, and reading real world opinions (you guys), we made a fantastic deal yesterday on what I think will be a good long term vehicle.

She ended up with a 2010 Honda Accord EX-L V-6 with Navigation (Diamond Pearl White); way more car than we were actually looking for, but the car is fully loaded and the deal was too good to pass up. Now we will have to spend hours learning how to use the voice commands and the rest of the bells and whistles that are on the smart arsed thing. But she is happy, which makes me happy, so we are all happy.

As it is pouring the rain today, the war wagon will not get the car out of the garage to take photos (go figure). I know it didn't happen without pictures, but my wallet says otherwise. Here is a Honda link to the car if anyone is interested. http://automobiles.honda.com/accord-sedan/price.aspx?Model=CP3F8BJNW

We didn't pay ANYWHERE near that kind of money with no trade in. It was a sweet deal as far as I'm concerned. They were desperate to make some kind of Honda incentive quota. Since they thought we might make or break the quota, they sold us the car at a loss to them (which in reality is moot because of their incentive money). I'm glad we made the deal when we did, because they sold two more behind us. They would have made their quota without us, but at the time they didn't know that.

As an aside, one thing that struck us both yesterday was the number of people buying cars on the last day of the year. Our small town dealer alone sold at least 16 brand new vehicles during the day. If the rest of the country waited until the last minute to buy, the industry as a whole had a hellofa good day.

Again, you guys did make some difference as to which direction we went, and for that I thank you. Have a great 2011 folks.

Regards,
Mark

Ian B
01-01-2011, 09:21 AM
Mark,

On the navigation system, can you change the destination while the car's moving? I bought a Toyota Avensis with built-in satnav, only to discover that the car has to be stationary to change desination. When moving, most of the control buttons are greyed out.

Dealer explains to me that this is a wonderful safety feature - Toyota don't want drivers messing with the screens and driving into other people. I asked the dealer if Toyota understood the concept of "a passenger" who could reprogram it. Apparently not...

This is an extremely irritating feature - try stopping on a motorway.

The solution was simple - take my old Tomtom satnav and a rubber sucker, stick it over the built-in screen!

Ian

John Stevenson
01-01-2011, 09:29 AM
Dealer explains to me that this is a wonderful safety feature - Toyota don't want drivers messing with the screens and driving into other people.
Ian

?? Simple, on a Toyota just cram the pedal into the floor mat so it's on 'auto' and reprogram it :D :)

vpt
01-01-2011, 10:15 AM
Congrats on the purchase! I am sure both of you will be pleased with the honda! My wife likes her honda.

Lets see a pic.

garagemark
01-01-2011, 10:52 AM
Dammit Sir John, you made me shoot coffee through my nose. Thanks a lot.:rolleyes:

Still looking over the books, but I think with the voice activated system, you can talk it into any destination while moving. Manually, I don't know yet.

And there will be no pics until it quits raining. I have an official Garage Queen for the time being.... says the wife.

tdmidget
01-01-2011, 12:09 PM
I just love to hear car dealers claim they lost money. Years ago I sold cars for about a year and the system has not changed. When a dealer sells a car there is money , included in his invoice, called "hold back". Here's how it works:
Sell 500 cars, get paid $25.00 each one. $ 12,500. Sell 500 more, get $ 25.00 for the whole thousand. Another $25000.00. Obviously there is a point where they can GIVE one away and make money.

I Recently did a boo boo. Really tired driving and I knew it. I stopped at a convenience store and drank a diet coke ,ate a hot dog, walked about in the cold air, and pronounced myself good to go, only about 60 miles to. I was alert almost to the end , remember the county line sign and the tail lights of a truck ahead. Apparently my eyes closed then, the driver ahead slowed to turn into a driveway, and I asleep with cruise at 70, hit the f-150 with a Ford Ranger. Fortunately airbags mete out their own punishment, and I got the worst of it but need a new truck
I looked for a good used f-150 as I wanted a little more room but still get decent gas mileage. I decided on one with V6 and manual gearbox. Looked at several, took one to my mechanic, checked out OK, but they declined $9000.00 for a 2006 with 43000 miles. Found one in Scottsdale,2008 with 9464 miles, like new, $12.500. So I go up there not even going to quibble at that price, not too worried about problems(still got 10 months factory warranty), and tell them I'll take but they must install cruise control. I had done my homework, all the circuitry is is place, you need two switches which cost $115.00. "Well we'll do that but we'll lose money on it." They brought out the papers and had this ridiculous $400.00 "doc" fee. Told him that's a deal breaker, when I got to the supermarket they don't charge me for the register tape and I ain't paying it. A few strokes of the pen and that goes away but of course "we're losing money". How do these folks stay in business with tyrants like me making them lose money at every turn?
Also who the hell buys a truck like this, puts less than 5000 miles a year on it and trades it in, not even a scratch in the bed?

Pete F
01-01-2011, 01:31 PM
Mark,

On the navigation system, can you change the destination while the car's moving? I bought a Toyota Avensis with built-in satnav, only to discover that the car has to be stationary to change desination. When moving, most of the control buttons are greyed out.

Unless they've changed it since 2003, yes you can.

-Pete

saltmine
01-01-2011, 02:16 PM
Usually two kinds of people, Tdmidget. The ones who can't make the payments...repo sale, and the truck that's been to five dealerships with a problem nobody seems to be able to fix...buy-back.
Another is a rental fleet truck, that has been wrecked (totalled), bought by a dealer or body shop, rebuilt, and sold as a low mileage used vehicle.( Hope & pray the repairs were done correctly)

Personally, I'd be real scared of either....even if it's a good deal.

The dealer is probably hoping the problem won't raise it's ugly head until after the warranty expires, then, they're "off the hook" for it. Also, a V-6 F-150, with a manual transmission is not a hot selling package. Most people buying an F-150 want a V-8 with an automatic transmission.

A repo is another animal completely.... I've seen people who don't (or can't)make their payments, literally destroy a car or truck just to "get even" with the finance company for not letting them keep it. Lord knows what kind of abuse it suffered before the repo man got it safely back to his storage yard.

Buyer beware.

winchman
01-01-2011, 03:20 PM
I feel sorry for you, Mark. Not being able to justify buying a new car for many many years is going to be really bad.

My wife's '03 Accord is still going strong, and she won't listen to any talk of getting a replacement for her.

RB211
01-01-2011, 05:30 PM
Why would you buy something new that loses 25% of its value the second you drive off the lot?
Honda's are very nice cars, they are my favorite in fact.

tdmidget
01-01-2011, 05:35 PM
Saltmine I know what you mean, especially the repos. But this truck checked out perfectly on carfax and was like new in every respect. I questioned why one would trade it. They said it can't be explained, apparently in Scottsdale they have more money than brains. Said they took a King Ranch Super Crew in with 5000 miles because the owner decided he didn't like the color of the upholstery.
I cxan say, if you sell cars for one year you will see things you would believe. Ask any one whose done it. I remember as the newest guy I had to wait on an elderly woman and her obviously retarded son. He wasn't helpless but able to work a job at Goodwill and had a drivers license. He had saved the money from his Goodwill job. The guys who snickered at me dealing with them were flabbergasted when Mom wrote a check for the truck he wanted. The sales manager called the bank to confirm that she could cover it and was told they would cover anything she wrote.

Ian B
01-02-2011, 04:46 AM
Pete,

The car's from 2008 - not sure when this "useful" feature was introduced, but mine definitely has it...

Ian

garagemark
01-02-2011, 06:10 AM
You buy a new car for several reasons. We keep cars a very long time. I kept my last new truck for 19 years. This new car replaces a 12 year old minivan; bought new. Things like depreciation and re-sale values are mainly moot in my household. My cars will be worth zero by the book when I am finished with them.

However, I take very good car of our vehicles. I do no trade them in when I buy new. I have always fetched way more than book value on my old cars and trucks; simply because the "Blue Book" cannot take into consideration the condition of my rides.

A new car affords me the luxury of knowing everything that the car has been through. It's like you buying a brand new shiny lathe. YOU have the option to put the first ding in the ways. Same with us. I know every time she so much as curbs the tires. With a used car, I have no idea what has previously been done to that car.

A new car also has a warranty for some period of time that will keep it operating properly or replace defective parts for a goodly period of time. It is well known and documented that a given vehicle will suffer MOST breakdowns within the first year. Yeah, I know. Someone will chime in with breakage two hours after their warranty ran out. But statistically, that is not the case.

And lastly, if you must make payments on a vehicle, interest rates at this time are almost zero %. You cannot get much less than 4-6% on used vehicles around here. This fact alone is why used dealer here are hurting.

We all know that the dealer lost no money on me. He sold me a nice car as a "loss leader" so he could collect the factory incentive for selling several of them. But from my perspective, and anyone else who is a retail buyer, they lost money on my particular car. I got a crack deal, and they got an award.

Mark

tdmidget
01-02-2011, 06:54 AM
Garagemark; I'm with you. I have always preferred to by new and drive every decent mile out of it. The Ranger I wrecked was 16 years old and 167,000 miles. I had every intention of keeping it for at least another 30,000 or so. It's appearance had deteriorated (the interior of these disintegrates with age) but it was still doing the job.
My "new, to me" truck was partly due to the economy. I did not want to be in debt in this near depression and did not want to drop 25 big ones for a truck plus they don't offer the manual gearbox anymore. I learned to drive with a 3 on the tree and have never minded that little bit of work shifting gears. I travel a lot and fuel economy matters. I like the simplicity of it and I can keep a clutch for close to 200,000 miles. If I could find a used vehicle like this I would never again buy new. Of course at may age I may never again buy period.

GKman
01-02-2011, 08:38 AM
"Clean Carfax"? You betcha. Just bought a 2004 Ford Ranger 4x4 from a big Toyota dealership. Clean Carfax. Buddy with a body shop is helping pry off smoked plastic sun visors from above side glass. Looks at the 0.030" edge "Silver, yep, been repainted, thought so." We pull out the nice looking but slick as snot plastic bed liner (anybody want one) and found a do-it-yourself spray-in liner that's not bad but a little peeling in on spot. Scrape it down to re-do. White bed on a silver truck. Bed's been replaced. Tough to believe that much damage repaired without an insurance claim that Carfax is supposed to note.

They "Lost" $167.00 on this one. I think they compute that by subtracting the theoretical ideal price they would like to get from the sale price. So the money they got to spread around on detailing, overhead, profit and commission was $167.00 less than they thought they might make.

Newest sham (on top of $200 document fee), line item of $69.95 added to the advertised price for nitrogen filled tires. Fifty cents worth of bright green valve stem caps to prove it.

Only bargaining tool I could think of was a printout of their online ad and a similar one from 50 miles away. "OK, $**,***.** is what I'm willing to write a check for that will keep me from going to look at the other one." They didn't want me leaving.

PixMan
01-02-2011, 09:46 AM
>> checked out OK, but they declined $9000.00 for a 2006 with 43000 miles.


Strange, because it was about 18 months ago now that I bought a 2006 Ford F150 XL for my dad. His has the 4.6 liter V8, roll-up wondows and only A/C as an option. It's definitely a work truck. It was a turned in lease (from a local machine shop no less, how appropo) that had just over 38,000 miles on it.

We offered them $8600 on their $8900 asking price, and they took it.

Sad about the demise of full size pick up trucks with manual transmissions. My youngest son is driving a 2002 Mazda B3000 (loaded with goodies) with a 5 speed manual. His first manual after trashing the slushbox on the old BMW I had given him. He says he loves it and doesn't ever want to have an autoshift again. I'm the same way, but have to drive a company car that they will not order in manual. Grrrr....

BTW, dad almost had a 2004 Chevy Silverado 4x4 for $11,995. He drove it for weekend and loved it. I shook hands with the Chevy dealership OWNER for $11,995, as he said "I' don't have a dime to give on this one." Then I saw a $250 doc fee, an $89 registry fee (that didn't actually pay any fees at the Registry of Motor Vehicles), and a $5 "dealer fee" that no one could tell me what it actually meant. That put me over the top, and we walked on the deal, went 4 miles up the road and bought the Ford.

vpt
01-02-2011, 10:34 AM
However, I take very good car of our vehicles. I do no trade them in when I buy new. I have always fetched way more than book value on my old cars and trucks; simply because the "Blue Book" cannot take into consideration the condition of my rides.



Mark



I do the same. I even store my nice vehicles in winter to keep them from getting rusty.

When I was selling my 96 ford f250 this last summer I had numerous people email me and tell me I was asking to much according to screw book and edmonds. I would try to explain the condition the truck was in and how it was well cared for but to some it just doesn't matter.

Personally I don't ever use blue book or edmonds or any of that crap. I use ebay completed auctions for real world pricing.

j king
01-02-2011, 11:08 AM
I fix wrecks on the side. Use to do it for xtra cash but now just keeping us in vehicles.

The carfax isnt 100% accurate. I fixed a one year old car that had 7000 miles on it. It was rolled. It had a good title. I had fixed it to sell and took pics and told buyers about it. They did a carfax and it showed a clean history. The car was a rental and was self insured so insurance company's didnt have a history on it . people were kinda surprised. Bought it tho. : )

tdkkart
01-02-2011, 11:39 AM
When I was selling my 96 ford f250 this last summer I had numerous people email me and tell me I was asking to much according to screw book and edmonds. I would try to explain the condition the truck was in and how it was well cared for but to some it just doesn't matter.

Personally I don't ever use blue book or edmonds or any of that crap. I use ebay completed auctions for real world pricing.


Completey understand where you're coming from, however there's 2 stumbling blocks.

#1. Right or wrong, most people do not pay cash for vehicles, they have to go to the bank for the money. The banks are not stupid, they cannot afford to loan out more money on a vehicle than they can get back if you default. They have to have some method of determining that value, and KBB, NADA, and Edmunds are where those numbers come from. Good luck trying to borrow more than book value for a vehicle no matter how nice it is. Unless you find a cash buyer, your chances of selling above book price are pretty slim.

#2. If I buy a $10,000 book-value vehicle from you out of your driveway for $12,000, what happens when I drive down the street, drive it into the side of a bus and total it out?? First, hopefully I had insurance on the vehicle before I left your drive. 2nd, assuming I had full coverage insurance on my now junk truck, they are only going to give me the $10,000 book value. I end up short by $2000.

Alot of people get caught in these traps.

vpt
01-02-2011, 12:19 PM
Completey understand where you're coming from, however there's 2 stumbling blocks.

#1. Right or wrong, most people do not pay cash for vehicles, they have to go to the bank for the money. The banks are not stupid, they cannot afford to loan out more money on a vehicle than they can get back if you default. They have to have some method of determining that value, and KBB, NADA, and Edmunds are where those numbers come from. Good luck trying to borrow more than book value for a vehicle no matter how nice it is. Unless you find a cash buyer, your chances of selling above book price are pretty slim.

#2. If I buy a $10,000 book-value vehicle from you out of your driveway for $12,000, what happens when I drive down the street, drive it into the side of a bus and total it out?? First, hopefully I had insurance on the vehicle before I left your drive. 2nd, assuming I had full coverage insurance on my now junk truck, they are only going to give me the $10,000 book value. I end up short by $2000.

Alot of people get caught in these traps.



That is all correct. Actually the buyer of the truck said the same thing that the bank would only give him so much. He had to come up with the difference himself. We met half way (he was from Iowa) and he loved the truck 100% and took it without hesitation. We met at one of my banks branches and were able to take care of all the money stuff right in the bank. It worked out great although I miss the truck. I had that truck for 10 years and took better care of it than I do myself. My newer powerstroke excursion helps ease the pain though. :D

garagemark
01-02-2011, 04:42 PM
You are forgetting that I am selling $3000 dollar cars, not $10,000. They are for all intents and purposes off the books anyway. The people who buy my old ones DO pay cash. They are delighted to get a real nice 'off the book' car for three or four grand.

The guy who bought my old 19 year old truck still runs the ol girl. That was three years ago. He is thrilled, I got what I wanted, and no banks were involved.

I can see how higher dollar cars could be different if financing.

Highpower
01-02-2011, 05:13 PM
The people who buy my old ones DO pay cash. They are delighted to get a real nice 'off the book' car for three or four grand.
I am one of "those" types of people. LOL.

My previous car was a 1988 Toyota Tercel that I bought (not running) for $500. I put $600 worth of parts in it getting it running again and drove it 50 miles a day back and forth to work for 12 years. 30 mpg to boot... :D

Sold it two years ago after someone took out the left rear quarter while it was parked in front of the house. Someone else was happy to get it at $300, and is still driving it today. :p

J. Randall
01-02-2011, 11:17 PM
Usually two kinds of people, Tdmidget. The ones who can't make the payments...repo sale, and the truck that's been to five dealerships with a problem nobody seems to be able to fix...buy-back.
Another is a rental fleet truck, that has been wrecked (totalled), bought by a dealer or body shop, rebuilt, and sold as a low mileage used vehicle.( Hope & pray the repairs were done correctly)

Personally, I'd be real scared of either....even if it's a good deal.

The dealer is probably hoping the problem won't raise it's ugly head until after the warranty expires, then, they're "off the hook" for it. Also, a V-6 F-150, with a manual transmission is not a hot selling package. Most people buying an F-150 want a V-8 with an automatic transmission.

A repo is another animal completely.... I've seen people who don't (or can't)make their payments, literally destroy a car or truck just to "get even" with the finance company for not letting them keep it. Lord knows what kind of abuse it suffered before the repo man got it safely back to his storage yard.

Buyer beware.

There is a third kind, or used to be if they have not changed the law. The kind that trades every yr. with a cash difference that is below the level that has to be reported. People with a business that they skim a lot of cash out of.

I know what you mean about people that destroy repos. First day on the job in a Chevy dealership in the early 70's they pointed to about a yr. old Malibu in the corner and said, that is your first project. The previous owner had clipped up the wiring harness with side cutters. It was so bad they just ordered a new harness, and the guy ahead of me had pulled it all out and quit. I sure was glad when I got that one back together.
James

aribert
01-06-2011, 07:48 AM
I am one of "those" types of people. LOL.

My previous car ....Sold it two years ago after someone took out the left rear quarter .... Someone else was happy to get it at $300, and is still driving it today. :p

I also am another one of "those people". My wife gets a new car once a decade whether she needs it or not, while I limit my vehicle purchases to $2000 - started in college when I bought a non running Mercedes diesel for $2K to repair and resell - I've owned about 35 vehicles to date (many bought for resale), all bought for $2K or less. Two years ago I violated my own rule and bought a nice older (out of state) rust free F150 for $2100 that needed a fair ammount of service parts soon after purchase and I have come to despise the now dependable P/U and I think it is because I violated my own personal game.

vpt
01-06-2011, 08:25 AM
I too am the one that buys car for cash. I rarely deal with cars over $5K. However after having kids I felt the need to get something a littel better than normal for the wife which is the 02 honda mini van that we got a few years ago. Even at $7K I still payed cash for it.

This year also because of the kids I sold off my towing/personal standard cab truck to get a more roomier cab truck. I ended up somehow going from shopping for a 4 door short box 7.3psd that would cost no more than $10K to actually getting a excursion 7.3psd that cost me $14K. Still payed with cash but was a little more than I was hoping for however the way I look at it is I will be keeping it pretty much forever and it is worth the initial extra cash for the many years of extra enjoyment. I planned on keeping my last truck forever (owned it for 10+ years) but than we had kids and stuff changes. Now I don't see any reason I would ever have to get rid of my X. In fact the way ford has been pumping out crap diesels it only enforces me to keep the last reliable diesel ford has had. Plus it has no emissions crap! :D