PDA

View Full Version : Craftsman/Atlas Question



parcall
01-02-2011, 07:18 PM
I am considering purchasing Craftsman Model 101.07403 Lathe. My understanding is that this 12 x 36 model was made by Atlas. It has a single 3 jaw 5 inch collet. Does anyone know the largest collet that this model will take?

Also, what would be a reasonable price for a machine in good condition?

Thank you in advance.

squirrel
01-02-2011, 07:25 PM
3AT and this might be wrong, approximately 1/2" capacity.

For the price, its what it is worth to you...... Going by the "book" price is rubish and with out actually having my hands on it an acurate and fair assesment is not possible. Atlas was never a top end lathe, if you plan on doing serious work buy a cheap import with a roller bearing in the head. If it is the later version with the 1/2" thick bed rail consider paying a little more because that one is a little more accurate between the centers, this might be incorrect, they had bearings in the head.

Something else to consider, if it is an older machine its parts were cast from Zamak, the newer ones are pot metal, similiar but not as durable.

aostling
01-02-2011, 07:33 PM
3AT and this might be wrong, approximately 1/2" capacity.


Yes, according to the Atlas Manual of Lathe Operation "the individual collets are furnished in all 32nds between 1/32 and 1/2 inch." This is for the 12" lathes.

SGW
01-02-2011, 07:36 PM
I assume you mean a 3-jaw, 5" chuck, not collet. Just guessing, you should be able to mount a 6" dia. chuck with no problem. I think anything bigger would start to be out of proportion to the lathe, even though you could probably mount a larger one.

As for collets: Squirrel is correct, it takes 3AT collets, which have a maximum capacity of 1/2" dia.

You may find this http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas/index.html informative.

As for value: it depends on condition, and what part of the country you live in.

J Tiers
01-02-2011, 07:49 PM
3AT and this might be wrong, approximately 1/2" capacity.


Actually takes 3AT, or 3C, or 3MT collets easily.

the 3AT and 3C require adapters, which are different for the two. Drawtube needs to be the right length for the spindle, which can be an issue for 3C because only more industrial machines use the 3C, and spindle length may be different. Often a simple spacer will take care of the length, though, since most machines for 3C had longer spindles.

The 3MT collets will fit directly into the spindle with only a drawbar required, that could be a piece of all-thread rod..

Another option is european "ER" collets.

Tradeoffs:

3AT go up to 1/2", by 64ths, and each takes only a narrow range of size, barely overlapping with the next size, really just "meeting" that size. use drawtube, so parts can be long
3AT are specific to Atlas, but were used to some degree by Logan as one possible collet option. Nobody else ever used them at all to my knowledge.

3C are very similar, 1/2" max, by 64ths, with size range similar, but they were used very widely, and still are to some degree. More available. Pretty much identical to Southbend 3. Also use drawtube, so parts can be long.

3MT take short parts only, fit directly with no extra pieces, don't release as well, come in 64ths, but 32nds are more available. go up to at least 5/8", larger than 3AT or 3C. Same size requirements on parts. The cheapest, easiest way "in", but limited.

"ER" collets. Holders are available and makeable. Take a wide range of sizes per collet, but you need to be careful to get a type of holder with a thru hole.

parcall
01-02-2011, 07:57 PM
You are correct, I meant "chuck" not "collet".

I live in the Southeast and the price is $300.

Thanks for the replys.

scatter cat
01-02-2011, 07:59 PM
Parcall what you are calling a collet is actually a 3 jaw chuck. 8 inch chuck is about the largest that can reasonably be used on that size lathe.Craftsman lathes are really lightduty machines lightweight, potmetal gears. They work fine for a beginner lathe. The amount of tooling that comes with a lathe uaually helps determine price. More stuff higher price.Post some pictures of the machine and what comes with it:) we like pictures.Then maybe some of the Craftsman gurus could help with a offer on it.I don't have a clue any more I moved on to bigger machines years ago.War story:D Back about 1979 I bought one from a local auto salvageyard for 750.00 it was fullytooled cabinet 3&4 jaw chucks,milling attachment.toolpost grinder ect.It was literally buried in a pile of starters and alternators.Took several hours just to dig it out:eek: Quite a score for a teenager just starting out.

Tony Ennis
01-02-2011, 08:05 PM
$300 is a great price for an AC that's in good shape and has all its parts.

I've heard you can mount a 5C collet chuck (http://www.tools4cheap.net/proddetail.php?prod=5cspinchuck) and get the full 1" or so through the headstock. You'll certainly want to do a fact check before you purchase such a thing however.

squirrel
01-02-2011, 08:11 PM
You are correct, I meant "chuck" not "collet".

I live in the Southeast and the price is $300.

Thanks for the replys.
You better drive over tonite and buy it, it will part out for over $1000 if its decent. That's assuming it has the really cool factory wooden top base and a thread dial and change gears.

gwilson
01-02-2011, 08:40 PM
You can't put 1" through the headstock of an Atlas. The 12" model has a 3/4" hole. I started out with one. I don't want another one.

Tony Ennis
01-02-2011, 08:51 PM
Ah, I couldn't remember. And was too lazy to go downstairs and check ;-)

Al Messer
01-02-2011, 09:03 PM
My Atlas 618 came with Timken Roller Bearings back in 1971.

Ray C
01-02-2011, 09:46 PM
I am considering purchasing Craftsman Model 101.07403 Lathe. My understanding is that this 12 x 36 model was made by Atlas. It has a single 3 jaw 5 inch collet. Does anyone know the largest collet that this model will take?

Also, what would be a reasonable price for a machine in good condition?

Thank you in advance.

Hi. Yes, that lathe was made by Atlas and mine is basically identical to yours. Measure the distance from the center of the chuck to the top of the bed/ways (flat metal rails). Double the number -and that's what size lathe it is. Mine measures 5" so it's a 10" lathe and the largest chuck you can comfortably install is 6". The spindle hole is .770" diameter to accomodate 3/4" stock. Spindle threads are 1 1/2" 8 TPI.

Measure the ways from all the way from the sidegears on the left to the other end. It's probably 42". The headstock takes up space and with the tailstock installed, the longest piece you can work on is roughly 22".

Most of the time, they require a good disassembly and cleaning. There's no mystery to it. They come apart and back together easily. If the belts are bad, measure them and use automotive belts -some people use the linked belts with good results.

The machines require a solid bench to dampen vibration caused by the gravity-pull motor, bracket and intermediate idler pulley mechanism. Most of the original motors are long gone. You need a 1725 RPM with at least 1/2HP, preferrably 1HP.

Check for full/proper operation as the gears in the apron are intentionally soft metal and were designed to break rather than bend the leadscrew if the operator accidentally left the carriage engaged and crashed the head or tailstock. Side gear sets for different leadscrew RPMs are commonly available. Replacement parts are common as variants of this machine were available from 1936 to 1981.

My machine was heavily used at Bethlehem Steel with over 20 years of daily use. Took me a couple weeks of learning it's quirks but, it runs perfectly. You'r not going to cut hardened metal or any solid bar much over 3" diameter. I've easily cut 5" dia pipe in it.

Typical prices run anywhere from 300 to $600 depending on how many accessories (center/follower rest, tooling etc) it comes with. I paid 300 for mine and easily use it 20 hours a week with very good results. It's a fine entry level / hobbyist lathe and can hold +/- 0.001" if you fine tune it and know how to properly use a manual lathe.

adatesman
01-02-2011, 10:24 PM
The machines require a solid bench to dampen vibration caused by the gravity-pull motor, bracket and intermediate idler pulley mechanism.

Fairly cheap and easy benchtop is retasking a 1-3/4" solid core door as a mounting surface. I went one step further and glued/screwed 3/4" plywood to either side of it, and the result is more than stiff enough for my C/A 12x36 (and requires 2 people to move even without the legs).


It's a fine entry level / hobbyist lathe and can hold +/- 0.001" if you fine tune it and know how to properly use a manual lathe.

Agreed. And frankly once I got it dialed in and understood its capabilities I routinely hit +/- 0.005" without much thought whatsoever. Not the sturdiest of machines, but lately I've been turning a lot of 1" diameter 1144 and 17-4PH stainless with nary a complaint even with 0.040" deep (0.080" diametric) cuts using CCMT carbide inserts. Could probably take more, but I don't want to stress the motor too much. But any way you cut it, not bad for a hobby-class machine. :)

parcall
01-02-2011, 11:24 PM
Once again everybody, thanks so much for helping me out. This is the first time I have used this site, what a wealth of information.

As someone requested, I have two photos, but the posting rules below say that I not post attachments, so I don't know how to add the photos.

gzig5
01-02-2011, 11:45 PM
You are correct, I meant "chuck" not "collet".

I live in the Southeast and the price is $300.

Thanks for the replys.

Condition is everything, it may be worth 300, it may not if it is a rust pile with broken gears. Check every single gear for cracks and broken teeth, as well as the condition of the half nuts. Parts are available but they aren't free. I have a 6 1/2" three jaw on my 12" and use an 8" four jaw when required.

Fred White
01-03-2011, 03:17 PM
Not intending to start a war, but I found the Craftsman/Atlas 12" Commercial lathe I used to have VERY light duty. I upgraded to a 10 x 24 Rockwell and it was much stronger.

That said, if its in good condition for the price, get it and resell it later if you find something you like better. They do hold their value and parts are readily available.

parcall
01-03-2011, 04:35 PM
Ok, here is the link to Photobucket where I have loaded two images. Again, the price is $300 and the machine appears to be in good condition.

Parcallhttp://s1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff485/parcall/

JCHannum
01-03-2011, 05:46 PM
That is the older model of the Craftsman 12" lathe. It has Timken bearings, and as equipped in the photo with collets and all is a steal at $300.00.

It is a change gear machine and should include a stack of gears as well. These are light duty machines, but for the beginner are a good starter machine.

parcall
01-03-2011, 06:06 PM
Jim,

Thanks very much, I am going to buy it.

Jerry

gda
01-03-2011, 07:36 PM
That will count as a Gloat when you get it.

Play with it, learn from it, then sell it and get something bigger. Sell the collets now and get almost half your money back now.

vpt
01-03-2011, 08:37 PM
I have done quite alot on my atlas 10"! They are a great machine it just takes a little longer to do things. Even when I get a bigger lathe I will keep the atlas just because.

parcall
01-03-2011, 09:45 PM
I got a measurement for the first time tonight on the lathe. It measures 18" between centers, not 36". How does this affect the value? Obviously it limits the machine; I would also assume that it will be less springy that the 36" model.

gzig5
01-04-2011, 12:41 AM
I got a measurement for the first time tonight on the lathe. It measures 18" between centers, not 36". How does this affect the value? Obviously it limits the machine; I would also assume that it will be less springy that the 36" model.

I don't think it affects it much unless you had a specific job in mind that wouldn't fit. You could try to use that as a bargaining tool to lower the price, but I wouldn't try too hard. Think of it this way, it leaves more room for the mill, grinder, press, etc.. As priced, what is under the machine is probably worth the asking price let alone the machine. The machine looks pretty clean and as long as there isn't a huge amount of wear on the ways and nothing it broke, I'd jump on it.

john hobdeclipe
01-04-2011, 08:18 AM
Hurry up and buy it before somebody else does!!!

I paid over twice as much for a much smaller model (6" X 18") a couple years ago. It was my first metal lathe, and I learned a lot with it, made a bunch of stuff, thoroughly enjoyed having a metal lathe at last. Later I bought a larger and heavier lathe, and sold the Craftsman/Atlas at a decent profit.

Tony Ennis
01-04-2011, 08:20 AM
I got a measurement for the first time tonight on the lathe. It measures 18" between centers, not 36". How does this affect the value? Obviously it limits the machine; I would also assume that it will be less springy that the 36" model.

It limits the size of your work. You'll lose more capacity as you add a chuck and live center, etc. My 4-jaw and backplate probably consume 4".

Regarding the value, don't worry about it. It's a good lathe if not worn out. When you're done, barring abuse, you'll get $300 for it.

JCHannum
01-04-2011, 10:29 AM
The shorter distance between centers does somewhat limit the usefulness of the machine, but does add a bit of rigidity. It is not a deal killer, especially in a first lathe.

You can easily spend double or more the cost of a lathe to tool it up. It appears that this machine is already well equipped. The change gear machine is a bit of a PITA to use, but is probably the best way to learn the intricacies of lathe work.

If I am not mistaken, it looks like the How to Run a Lathe book is on the middle shelf of the stand, and you have all you need to start cutting metal. It can be very frustrating for the beginner to find that at each step of the process, another, expensive, piece of gear must be purchased.

adatesman
01-06-2011, 10:19 AM
Jim,

Thanks very much, I am going to buy it.

Jerry


Haven't seen the gloat thread yet, so did you get it, Jerry? :)


On the offchance you did, if you ever consider upgrading to a QCTP A R Warner (http://arwarnerco.com/warner_products_kits.html) makes HSS inserts and holders that go nicely with the C/A lathes. Even better, they're standard sizes so swapping in carbide when needed is a snap.

No affiliation with them, just quite pleased with the test cuts I took with the kit I got from them yesterday. :)

MrDan
01-06-2011, 10:53 AM
My first metal lathe was an Atlas 10" with the quick change gear box. Everything I learned on that lathe was applicable to the 16x40 I have now, which isn't something I can say for a lot of the other small lathes I've seen. Plus, as a newbie when you crash the lathe (you will) it sure is nice to be alerted by the squeal of the belt slipping rather than the pieces of really expensive lathe bits flying by your head. The difference of ability is quite dramatic between a full sized lathe and the atlas, but if you're patient you can do some pretty neat work on the Atlas. I wouldn't want one that wasn't the quick change type, but I was interested in doing threading pretty early on. If threading isn't your thing then go for it. Do check all the gears. They can get damaged easily and are expensive to replace. However, they CAN be replaced which is a big deal. Clausing still supports the Atlas lathes, although you'll pay way more for the parts than the lathe.

Go visit www.lathes.co.uk as suggested. It's a fabulous source for info on the Atlas lathes.

Two people can move this lathe fairly easily, btw. So that's nice when you're getting started as well.

Good luck!

parcall
01-08-2011, 09:34 AM
Gentlemen,

Thanks to all for your assistance. I picked up the Craftsman/Atlas this morning in very good condition with collets, second set of gears, accessories, and the original manuals for a price of $300. I look forward to giving it a complete cleaning, although it was kept in very good condition, and getting started.

Your help wan invaluable,

Jerry

john hobdeclipe
01-08-2011, 02:59 PM
Gentlemen,

Thanks to all for your assistance. I picked up the Craftsman/Atlas this morning in very good condition with collets, second set of gears, accessories, and the original manuals for a price of $300. I look forward to giving it a complete cleaning, although it was kept in very good condition, and getting started.

Your help wan invaluable,

Jerry


Glad you got it. Enjoy!!

Tony Ennis
01-08-2011, 03:57 PM
Your second set of gears may just be the ones that aren't currently on the lathe. My older Craftsman 12" lists 16 gears as standard, though some really never come off the lathe and as such aren't 'change gears' IMO.

Some documentation (http://home.insightbb.com/~antinice/101.07383.html) which may apply to your lathe to some degree.