Magic Acid for brass????

[Alistair Hosie]

I have heard that there is an acid which magically cleans tarnished brasswork any ideas and can it be bought at the drug store Chemist ? Alistair

[Bruce Griffing]

It is called "bright dip". Here is a link. You must remove all oils before a bright dip.

http://www.finishing.com/2800-2999/2986.shtml

[lynnl]

Brasso polish. Not exactly a magic dip, but just a light buffing with brasso on a soft cloth will make it shine like new.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=5&oq=brasso&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIE_enUS393US393&q=brasso+polish

[moe1942]

Ammonia and water. 40-60 solution. When I was in the clockmaker business I used it. L&R is a clockmaker supplier. They have an ammonia free solution. Pricey but good. You didn't say what or how much tarnished widgets you need to brighten so my answer is X...

[Liger Zero]

Alistair:

I posted an "acid wash" method the other day. Rather than dig up the link here are my steps again:

1) set up a bucket for acid, two LARGE buckets of cold water, and a kettle of boiling water.

2) Dip your part in the acid

3) rinse in the first bucket of cold water. Have a hose or some way to move the water through/over/around the part.

4) Dip again in the second bucket of cold water. Make sure to get all the acid off.

5) Dip the part in BOILING WATER until it is very hot all the way through. Pull it out and let it air. It should dry spot-free that way. Any remaining acid will show as discoloration. Simply repeat the process to remove the acid "stain."


As always BE CAREFUL with acid. Yadda yadda splash goggles, yack yack blah blah apron, blarg-bipity-boo apron, wah-wah-wah ventilation.

[aboard_epsilon]

Hydrochloric acid does it quite well, AKA masonry cleaner.

neutralise with bicarbonate after ..it will then will be a pink matt colour ..you then do the polishing ..and then should be good .


all the best.markj

[JCHannum]

Most mild acids will work, sulfuric and hydrochloric are easiest to obtain as battery acid or masonry cleaner. Either will remove tarnish, but will leave a frosted appearance which will need polishing.

A paste made of salt and vinegar works well on small parts, but will also require additional polishing.

[oil mac]

alistair,
I have never tried this trick myself, But i have been assured it works,
Take rhubarb leaves, boil them, decant the water off them, and put your brass components in for a little while, this will i believe turn them a little pink, finish with brasso, Remember this is acidic &poisonous, Any of these cleaning acids & potions are usually poisonous & generally will rust all your tools &bright work, I would stick with Brasso only, If it was good enough for mothers bright brass work, it is good enough for me.

[MaxxLagg]

Ketchup (or catsup, depending where you are :D ) works well on copper believe it or not. Probably works well on brass too. Messy, but you probably already have some.

[Liger Zero]

Ketchup (or catsup, depending where you are :D ) works well on copper believe it or not. Probably works well on brass too. Messy, but you probably already have some.

That would be a combination of citric acid and vinegar wouldn't it?

[PTSideshow]

It's the vinegar in the ketchup,along with the acid from the tomato's just use the vinegar might have some with your chips. :D

[Liger Zero]

Does the salt in the ketchup play any role in the cleaning process?

[MaxxLagg]

Would assume it's mostly the vinegar. I never believed when my ol' man told me about it but he was a toolmaker too so I tried it and it does work. Probably not as well as more conventional methods but in a pinch it does the job on copper.

[rohart]

I have a small bucket of plumber's solder flux - the stuff that looks like a greenish paste. It hits most brasses just the way it does for copper. Any surface tarnish vanishes, and you're left with metal clean enough for the solder to take on. It washes off nicely, and isn't too aggressive.

[CCWKen]

Don't use Hydrochloric or Sulphuric acid. They're way too strong. Zinc readily degenerates in the presence of even a mild acid such as tomato ketchup or vinegar. That "pink" frosted color is copper. It's what you're left with after the acid dissolves the zinc out of the brass. You can't fix that except to polish down to new brass. You might as well use sandpaper then re-polish.

You can use a fluoride based acid but I don't think you can get that at your local drug store. Caswell's sells "Pickle #4" that works great for deoxidizing copper and brass. The reason it works is that it will strip copper and zinc oxides at the same rate so you're left with "BRASS". I've never tried it on heavily oxidized brass but I use it all the time in plating. You may have to heat it for heavy oxidation.

http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/pickle4.html

By the way, they also have a Caswell's outlet in the UK but you'll have to check if "Pickle #4" is sold over there.

[gary350]

Muriatic acid will clean brass or copper in about 10 seconds, if it is really dirty it might take 20 seconds.

Muriatic acid also know at Brick Acid or Masonry Acid is really 40% Hydochloric Acid and 60% water.

Pickling of steel. One of the most important applications of hydrochloric acid is in the pickling of steel, to remove rust or iron oxide scale from iron or steel before subsequent processing, such as extrusion, rolling, galvanizing, and other techniques. Technical quality HCl at typically 18% concentration is the most commonly used pickling agent for the pickling of carbon steel grades.

Rusty Bolts. Put some Muriatic Acid on the threads give it a few seconds all the rust comes right off. Old rusty steel looks like new again. Great for cleaning rust off of old antique cars before you paint.

[gearedloco]

Muriatic acid will clean brass or copper in about 10 seconds, if it is really dirty it might take 20 seconds.

Muriatic acid also know at Brick Acid or Masonry Acid is really 40% Hydochloric Acid and 60% water.

Pickling of steel. One of the most important applications of hydrochloric acid is in the pickling of steel, to remove rust or iron oxide scale from iron or steel before subsequent processing, such as extrusion, rolling, galvanizing, and other techniques. Technical quality HCl at typically 18% concentration is the most commonly used pickling agent for the pickling of carbon steel grades.

Rusty Bolts. Put some Muriatic Acid on the threads give it a few seconds all the rust comes right off. Old rusty steel looks like new again. Great for cleaning rust off of old antique cars before you paint.


Will that work for pickling brass/copper after silver-soldering?

Second, will the fumes cause any steel in the area, such as machine tools,
to rust?

My pool pump got really rusty fairly fast, but there was also liquid chlorine
(12%) along with muriatic acid stored in the pump/filter shed.

[Circlip]

The Clockmaker in post #4 has the answer.

Old clockmaker recipe :-

To 1 gall. (Imperial) of hot water add 8oz. of soft soap flakes stirring together, when cool pour in 1 gall. of Ammonia and stir in. (Best done Outside

Swish yer lumps of brass about in it which washes off the brown oxides. If yer gonna dip yer fingies and handies in it, wear a pair of best Marigolds.

This came from a clock repair handbook and was instrumental in being able to clean even between the gear teeth on the brass train wheels by swishing. If your life is so rushed, a scrub with a toothbrush would work too.

After washing in clean hot water and drying,the lightest application of one of the polishing felts (Dura-Glit in the UK NOT Brasso) brings up a high polish.

Regards Ian

Hydrochloric is quite good for making Brass totally transparent.

[aboard_epsilon]

Muriatic acid will clean brass or copper in about 10 seconds, if it is really dirty it might take 20 seconds.

Muriatic acid also know at Brick Acid or Masonry Acid is really 40% Hydochloric Acid and 60% water.

Pickling of steel. One of the most important applications of hydrochloric acid is in the pickling of steel, to remove rust or iron oxide scale from iron or steel before subsequent processing, such as extrusion, rolling, galvanizing, and other techniques. Technical quality HCl at typically 18% concentration is the most commonly used pickling agent for the pickling of carbon steel grades.

Rusty Bolts. Put some Muriatic Acid on the threads give it a few seconds all the rust comes right off. Old rusty steel looks like new again. Great for cleaning rust off of old antique cars before you paint.

you're right about the time ..20 secs or so ..
but the British masonry cleaner is only 15 percent hydro at the very very best.

all the best.markj

[MuellerNick]

HCl + Alumen.
Alumen = Aluminiumcaliumsulfate.
Add alumen 'till the HCl is saturated (= you can add more, just add until nothing more can be solved).


Nick

[metalmagpie]

Old clockmaker recipe :-

To 1 gall. (Imperial) of hot water add 8oz. of soft soap flakes stirring together, when cool pour in 1 gall. of Ammonia and stir in. (Best done Outside

Swish yer lumps of brass about in it which washes off the brown oxides. If yer gonna dip yer fingies and handies in it, wear a pair of best Marigolds.

This came from a clock repair handbook and was instrumental in being able to clean even between the gear teeth on the brass train wheels by swishing. If your life is so rushed, a scrub with a toothbrush would work too.

After washing in clean hot water and drying,the lightest application of one of the polishing felts (Dura-Glit in the UK NOT Brasso) brings up a high polish.

Would some kind person be willing to translate the above posting into American?

I know an imperial gallon is 5 US quarts.

What are 'soft soap flakes'? Marigolds? Dura-Glit? 'the polishing felts'? Why not Brasso?

metalmagpie (mystified)

[aboard_epsilon]

Duraglit is like a little can of felt wadding ..these come pre soaked in a like brasso solution ...finer and more refined than brasso.........seems to be not available anymore ..now superseded by the same size can and the same idea ..but brasso written on it

soft soap flakes ..dont know...according wiki ..they stopped in the 40's

marigolds are brandname of washing up gloves....housework dishes etc

all the best.markj

[Circlip]

Sorry Metalmagpie, the request was from a British, err well, Scottish poster, so yes Markj you probably did need to translate.

Lux Flakes were available at least forty years ago and were what young ladies used to wash the diaphenous things we only saw on rare occasions. how times have changed. Probably you could use one of the milder liquid soaps and as Mark has said, the pre-impregnated polishing wadding had a finer polish in it than Brasso liquid which tends to be a bit "Gritty" and leaves a heavy residue to polish off.

Regards Ian.

[Duffy]

Metalmagpie, "soft soap flakes" are just that;- years ago, before the universality of synthetic detergents, the soap manufacturers produced an "easy-use" product for washday. They ran thin bars of high-quality soap through high-speed knives to produce flakes which dissolved easily in water. Think of Ivory Soap shaved into flakes. Later the manufacturers produced powder.
Marigolds were most probably a brand of rubber gloves.
Polishing felt is/was a fiber treated with cleaner/polisher. I think one brand in North America was Neverdull. It came in a can and you tore off as much as you thought you needed and used it in a wad like bunched up paper towel. Brasso, on the other hand is just about the same recipe as described, with some fine abrasive like whiting, added. It makes a mess after you have just cleaned the brass.
The "magic ingredient" in Brasso by the way, is Elbow Grease! It gives a lustre to the metal that NO chemical cleaner can replicate.

[JCHannum]

Nevr-Dull is wadding polish available on this side of the Atlantic. I suspect it is the same as DuraGlit. Brasso is an ammonia compound mixed with a mild abrasive like Bon-Ami, if that is still available.

Tarnish is a form of corrosion, just like rust. It is formed by the base metal combining with contaminants in the atmosphere. Remove the tarnish by whatever means and you will also remove the base metal that has combined to form the tarnish, it cannot be returned, it is gone.

Moderation is the keyword here, very dilute acids work very well, catsup, vinegar, dilute battery acid, masonry cleaner, toilet bowl cleaner and other readily available products wil supply the acid. The time exposed to the solution will determine the amount of material removed. The tarnish usually goes fairly quickly, and progress should be checked frequently. As soon as bright metal is seen, the part should be removed and neutralized. Polishing will be required.

All precautions regarding handling of acids should, pf course, be followed.

[Optics Curmudgeon]

Does the salt in the ketchup play any role in the cleaning process?

Funny you should ask: http://www.cruftbox.com/cruft/docs/cleaningcopper.html

Quite an involved investigation.

[MaxxLagg]

Funny you should ask: http://www.cruftbox.com/cruft/docs/cleaningcopper.html

Quite an involved investigation.


And now I know!

[Alistair Hosie]

I have tried drain cleaner acid and it did very little thanks guys.Alistair

[x39]

Lysol Toilet Bowl cleaner removes tarnish on brass like nothing you ever saw.