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View Full Version : Installing AXA 100 QCTP on BusyBee 10 x 18 lathe



brian Rupnow
01-06-2011, 05:06 PM
I have been thinking for some time now about going to a quick change toolpost on my BusyBee 10 x 18" lathe. Seeing as how George Bulliss was kind enough to send me a nice cheque for my radial engine article in this months Home Shop Machinist magazine, I decided to go ahead and order one from Little Machine Shop. Some research showed me that for a lathe measuring 1" from the center of the chuck down to the top of the topslide, an AXA or size 100 was the correct height.
This is what my topslide looks like from above (with the old toolpost and handle setting in the background) and from underneath where the head of the bolt sets. That cavity for the bolt head is 0.640" wide x 1.042" long x 0.159" deep and the thru hole for the bolt is 0.410" dia.http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/COMPOUNDRESTPICS002.jpg
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/COMPOUNDRESTPICS003.jpg

brian Rupnow
01-06-2011, 05:08 PM
So this is what showed up in my mail this morning. Two tool holders, a cut off blade holder, a knurling tool and a boring tool holder. The boring tool holder is for a 3/4" shank boring tool with a split bushing in it to accept 5/8" shank boring bars. This will be a problem, because the boring tools I have that fit my boring head on the mill are all 1/2" shank.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/quickchange001.jpg

brian Rupnow
01-06-2011, 05:09 PM
The main thru-bolt is a monster, at 0.558" dia. the plate it screws into is 2.24" x 2.519" x 1/2" thick. I can only assume that I will have to open up the existing 0.410 dia. hole in my topslide to about 0.568 to give a bit of clearance. The existing 0.640" x 1.042" slot in the underside of my topslide will have to be opened up, probably to at least 0.750" wide x 1.042" long, and the plate milled down to 0.874" square to fit fit into the slot.--I just tested the plate with a hacksaw, and its soft, so that shouldn't be a problem.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/quickchange-2001.jpg

brian Rupnow
01-06-2011, 05:09 PM
At a very quick glance with the QCTP just setting in place, it looks like the height will be about perfect. Keep in mind that I have a 0.100 spacer under my topslide right now, so the whole topslide including the quick change toolpost will set down another 0.100" when the spacer is removed.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/quickchange-5001.jpg

brian Rupnow
01-06-2011, 05:10 PM
I have opened up the hole through my toplide to suit the diameter of the new centerbolt and milled the slot larger for the new nut. Unfortunately, my topslide has a round, 0.189" deep counterbore on the far side which means I could only go about 0.025" deeper with the recess for the nut, as I didn't want to thin down the web of material between the two recesses enough to weaken it. The recess for the nut is only 0.183" deep now, and thats not enough to hold a threaded connection. What I will do is mill the plate down to that thickness, put a good 45 degree chamfer on the head of the centerbolt and weld it all around the plate. The threaded connection will keep it square and true, and the weld will keep the threads from pulling out under stress.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/topslideholemilled001.jpg

brian Rupnow
01-06-2011, 05:10 PM
There isn't very much left of that 2" x 1/2' plate, but what there is left is a good fit into the recess prepared for it. I caught about 3 threads of the post, and welded all the way around it.---It shouldn't pull out!!! I can still remove the plate and post if I want to.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/weldedpost003.jpg
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/weldedpost004.jpg

brian Rupnow
01-06-2011, 05:11 PM
So there we are--All buttoned up and finished. The fit seems fine, as far as tool height is concerned. I will obviously have to do some playing around with it untill I get a feel for adjustment, etcetera, but the installation went fine.----Thanks, George!!!!:D :D :D
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/installationfinished003.jpg

Black_Moons
01-06-2011, 05:30 PM
The boring tool holder is for a 3/4" shank boring tool with a split bushing in it to accept 5/8" shank boring bars. This will be a problem, because the boring tools I have that fit my boring head on the mill are all 1/2" shank.


As my friend loves to tell me:
"Maybe you can fason a crude lathe!" (And make a new split bushing)

38_Cal
01-06-2011, 05:48 PM
Good write up! I have the same AXA rig, but use it on my 11x24" Rockwell. I made up a new plate to fit my compound...as you noted, the original plate is soft...mine scored about 5 on the Peanut Butter scale! The new plate fits the groove in the compound better, and has given me no problems.

David

dockrat
01-06-2011, 05:50 PM
Brian, my lathe is the same thing and I had to mod mine also for the QCTP. I just made a bushing that fit over the old size bolt and also fit into the round cut out. By doing that I could use the original tightening handle. I used a longer bolt and milled the head thinner to fit in the slot underneath.

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh67/Dockrat1/IMGP1516Medium.jpghttp://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh67/Dockrat1/IMGP1517Medium.jpg

Make one of these for your 1/2" boring bars:

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh67/Dockrat1/IMGP1518Medium.jpg

Your really going to appreciate having that QCTP. Nice mod.

Dale Lusby
01-06-2011, 05:52 PM
Thank you for the excellent write up and pictures. I just ordered my Aloris and will be referencing back when I start setting it up.

ammcoman2
01-06-2011, 07:19 PM
The January HSM hasn't arrived yet but congratulations.

Re using a 1/2" boring bar, the -102 holder has a V-notch in the bottom so round bars locate very well. I think I have 3 of them and are useful since they can be used with regular square toolbits as well.

Geoff

sasquatch
01-06-2011, 07:34 PM
Thanks Brian, great presentation,, And timely, as i,m just in the process of ordering a QCTP for my lathe.:cool:

Carld
01-06-2011, 07:39 PM
Nice job Brian, your going to love that tool post and wonder how you managed with the old one.

DeereGuy
01-06-2011, 07:41 PM
Brian, my lathe is the same thing and I had to mod mine also for the QCTP. I just made a bushing that fit over the old size bolt and also fit into the round cut out. By doing that I could use the original tightening handle. I used a longer bolt and milled the head thinner to fit in the slot underneath.
Yep that is the way I did my HF 9x20 also. When I sold it the old TP went with it and I kept the QCTP.

Spin Doctor
01-07-2011, 06:55 AM
When I installed my QCTP on my PM1027 (close cousin of the 10x18, just a longer bed) I made a sleeved nut to engage the post on the compound). Only I wish I had a dovetail post instead of the piston type

brian Rupnow
01-07-2011, 10:59 AM
And what would any new tool report be worth without some feedback as to what it cost and how well it worked? The quick change toolpost and holder set that I bought at Little Machine Shop was item #2280, and retailed for $155.00. I see on the invoice a $5.00 charge for handling?? and a $27.95 charge for shipping---Now we're up to $187.95, and when I picked it up at the post office I got to pay $26.00 for the privelage of being a Canadian citizen (taxes).----So----Call it a round $214.00 my cost. The tools seem very well made, from steel, not aluminum, and a very nice black oxide finish on all of the non mating surfaces. The holders are not hardened, as I checked with a hacksaw---(more on that later.)
The holders are 2.95" long, with 4 set screws each to clamp the cutting tool. The slot to hold the tool is 0.553" wide, and 0.445" deep, so they would hold a 1/2" square shank tool, but are perfect for a 3/8" square cutting tool. With a 3/8" square cutting tool in the holder, I can lower the holder untill the tip of the cutting tool is about 0.247 below the center of my chuck, so probably a 1/2" square tool would fit but you would have very little downward adjustment left. The two toolholders are great. The cut-off tool holder slot is 0.546" wide x 0.192 deep, and seems to hold my 1/2" x 1/8" cut off tool just fine. It has a sliding wedge type affair to clamp the cutting tool in place, and it works---I cut off a peice of 1/2" diameter steel just to test it. The knurling tool seems to be functionally useless, as its the type where you have to use the compound rest crossfeed to push it into the work to create the knurl.---However, the good news is that it already has a 0.553" wide x .445" deep slot half the length of itself, with 2 setscrews. I tested it with my hacksaw and its soft, so probably I will cut the knurling end off it, mill the slot all the way through, and add two more set screws to make a third tool holder. My old "squeeze type" knurler had a rectangular shank .409 thick x 0.625" deep---A quick trip over to the mill and the 0.625" was quickly reduced to 0.530" so it would fit into one of the new toolholders. I didn't do any testing of the boring tool holder, as I will have to make a split bushing to hold my 1/2" shank boring tools. What I didn't realize untill right now are the trade offs involved with a quick change toolpost as opposed to the other type which came on my lathe. With my old holder, you had to mess around with different thicknesses of shims to get the cutting tool set at the correct height----BUT--- You could loosen off the handle without a wrench and rotate the whole toolpost to easily achieve whatever angle of contact the tool had with the peice being turned, then lock it in place again via the handle---No wrench required. With the new Quick Change Toolpost, its exactly the opposite. Tool height adjustment is very quick and easy, but to change the aspect of tool to workpeice, you need a wrench to loosen off the toolpost bolt in order to rotate it into the proper position, then again the wrench is required to lock it in place. Only time will tell how much of an agravation that is going tobe. So, there you have it. My first tool review of 2011.---Brian

firbikrhd1
01-07-2011, 11:17 AM
I've ordered two of these from CDCO, one for my Logan 10" lathe and one for my Dad's Atlas 10" lathe. In both cases rigidity was greatly improved over the lantern tool posts we were using. Parting was not bad on my Logan before, provided I didn't use the rocker but in it's place a solid ring the correct height and a spring type parting tool holder, but with the AXA I can part at higher speeds using the supplied holder.

The only issue was when installing the AXA on my Dad's Atlas. The bottom plate that fits in the T slot on the compound was hard from the factory for some reason and I was unable to machine it with high sped tooling on the shaper. After performing some home shop annealing (my first ever) the piece machined nicely and all went well.

brian Rupnow
01-07-2011, 11:58 AM
Alls well that ends well----I made up a split bushing from a peice of 3/4" dia. mild steel round bar, 3" long, then drilled and remed it to 1/2" inside dia. I split one side full length on the bandsaw and put it into the boring tool holder. It grips my 1/2" shank boring bars just fine-----I bored out an existing hole in a peice of stock to see if the tool stayed aligned and didn't turn in the holder, but its as steady as a rock.

Boucher
01-07-2011, 01:03 PM
Brian, The import type boring holders clamp the sleeved boring bars better than the Dorians. I have not had any problems with either but after using them I tend to use full sized bars in the Dorian holders which have four set screws that set on top of the bar. I also use some boring bars in the holders with the vee grove in the bottom but I really prefer the import type with the bushing.

brian Rupnow
01-07-2011, 02:28 PM
Does anyone know what the thread is at the top of the main "post"?. It measures out as 0.559" (14.19mm). This may be a M15 x 1 pitch metric thread, but I'm not sure. I may try to make a second handle to tighten/loosen the main post rotational position, so I don't have to use a wrench.---Brian

bmc
01-07-2011, 05:42 PM
Brian,
I installed my QCTH last week ( a gift from Santa). I felt the same as you nice to change tools, a pain to change the tool angle. My first project was to make a nut with a handle. I made the nut from 7075 AL. I don't know how long it will last but thats what I had on hand.

Oh yea, the top thread is 9/16x18


Bob

brian Rupnow
01-07-2011, 05:54 PM
Brian,
I installed my QCTH last week ( a gift from Santa). I felt the same as you nice to change tools, a pain to change the tool angle. My first project was to make a nut with a handle. I made the nut from 7075 AL. I don't know how long it will last but thats what I had on hand.

Oh yea, the top thread is 9/16x18


Bob

Thank you Bob.----Brian

Boucher
01-07-2011, 07:41 PM
Brian, One of the local Pawn Shops has lots of old individual tools for sale cheap. I picked up this old Williams offset wrench that fits the nut on my QCTP. For 50 cents it became a dedicated purpose tool. I put the white tape on the handle to mark the end that I pick up. The off set is just right to clear the tool post handle and it is long enough to make for easy position changes. I use a little anti-seize on the threads. Your new tool post is going to be a pleasure to use.
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n50/boucherbyron/IMG_0165Small.jpg

J. R. Williams
01-07-2011, 08:12 PM
I use a similar offset wrench for my lathe tool post. Where you added tape to signify the correct end to use, I cut off the unused end and made it a dedicated wrench. No problem of getting the wrong end.

JRW

ammcoman2
01-08-2011, 10:05 AM
I have picked up wrenches that are on sale, cut them in half and epoxy a phenolic ball on the cut end of the box end piece. Then they are left in place.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g189/ammcoman2/DSCN5287.jpg

Geoff

dockrat
01-08-2011, 11:29 AM
I have picked up wrenches that are on sale, cut them in half and epoxy a phenolic ball on the cut end of the box end piece. Then they are left in place. Geoff

You could even tack the wrench to the nut and make it permanent

gzig5
01-08-2011, 12:14 PM
I have picked up wrenches that are on sale, cut them in half and epoxy a phenolic ball on the cut end of the box end piece. Then they are left in place.


Geoff

That is slick and probably worthy of the great big thread with all the project ideas.

Tony Ennis
01-08-2011, 12:29 PM
When I get off my break, I intend to press the nut into a cap, and thread the cap for a lever. The cap hopefully will prevent so much crud from getting into the threads. A chip worked its way into my friend's QCTP - the nut seized/jammed to the point he had to cut it off.

Spin Doctor
01-08-2011, 12:33 PM
As to the whole PITA to nchange the angle of the tool to the work. IN a past life I spent 30+ years working in an industrial tool room.When the first guys started getting QCTPs from CDCO* to use on Hardinges I was one of the guys that was just a little suspect as I thought it overkill. And this was when I was familiar with using Aloris's on larger machines. Then I tried one and was convinced of their utility. And bought one but went cheap and got the Piston model. Then I saw and ordered a couple of the Aloris tool holders that take a CNMG-43X insert for use on LeBlonds. Then the light really went on. Up until that time the only HSS tool bits that I had fixture ground were my threading tools. Also buy this time I was doing close to 75% of the lathe work I needed to do on Hardinges with the rest split between LebLonds, Harrisons and a Southwest Industries Trak control we had. Anyways on the Hardinge I started to grind the HSS tools I was using in a fixture that is a adjustable so that the cutting edge oriented to the long axis of the tool bit. Now these were primarliy my chamfer, radius and threading tools along with any special form tools I needed to make up. General turing was handled by carbide insert tooling. Once the tool post was set up square to the work I would never to loosen it up to adjust the angle in order to accomodate the next tool. But the kicker is all of the tools were finish ground on a surface grinder. And some of the chamfer tools have never had to be reground since the were first ground probably 7 years ago. A light polishing with a good stone between uses has really done the trick. But lately I have been using them more on stainless so it is a good thing we have a grinder at work cause that is where the fixtures are now. First the fixtures. Then the tools. The first is set with a protactor head and rule along the flat by the spigot diameter. Is it overkill to grind up your lathe tools like that. Maybe in a home shop it is. But in an industrial setting where you need to get the job done fast and you can't afford the extra time adjusting tools believe me it is. All of our work was in supporting production and when they had a process down that was vital to getting parts to an assembly line that might have to be idled for even a short amount of time you can't afford the extra time.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/markandannie/MVC-006S.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/markandannie/Thread%20Blocks/MVC-008S.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/markandannie/Thread%20Blocks/P1010339.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/markandannie/Tips/MVC-005F.jpg

My dad always told me, "work smarter, not harder kid"

*I always think of them as CODCO. Or as we used to say when he was selling at 7 Mile Fair (a flea market south of Milwaukee) China Joe

http://cdcotools.com/

Spin Doctor
01-08-2011, 12:48 PM
On the PM1027 and I am assuming the 10x18 on of the problems is the the Zero Degree mark on the Top Surface of the Cross Slide. It really needs a second indexing mark at 90Ds to the first one. Now the best way to do this would be with a milling machine and an engraving tool. But you can do it free hand too. Take your Combination Square and set it so that the head is against the cross slide and the blade is is touching the Spigot for the Compound. Now Measure the Spigot and the length of the Blade from the Head. Add half the Spigot diameter and mark a line at that location. You could also do the job with your caliper what ever the variety. Is it perfect. No, but it beats having to use a proctactor and blade to setr the compound angle every time

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/markandannie/MVC-016F.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/markandannie/MVC-017F.jpg

Boucher
01-08-2011, 01:59 PM
When I get off my break, I intend to press the nut into a cap, and thread the cap for a lever. The cap hopefully will prevent so much crud from getting into the threads. A chip worked its way into my friend's QCTP - the nut seized/jammed to the point he had to cut it off.

Apply some good anti-seize on the threads and that will not happen. http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&expIds=17259,18168,23756,24692,24878,24879,27400,2 7955&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=anti-seize&cp=8&wrapid=tljp1294512472265014&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=9360090541301058963&ei=a7EoTduUDcH6lweU2tW4AQ&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=image&resnum=7&sqi=2&ved=0CD0Q8gIwBg#

The threads on the nut and bolt in my Dorian are probably a class three fit. At least there is no perceptible looseness. With the anti-seize on the threads it is easy to adjust the tool post. The top of the threaded post is rounded and protrudes above the nut slightly. It sheds the swarf and I have never had a problem with it getting crud in it.

brian Rupnow
01-08-2011, 03:00 PM
This may not be the perfect solution to the wrench requirement for turning the direction the toolpost is facing, but it comes darn close. I had an old set of 3/8" drive sockets that I inherited from my dad. I took the 3/4" socket, which fits the nut on top of my toolpost, and drilled the center out to 0.570", to clear the post, made up a handle out of 5/8" steel stock, and welded them together. Now the handle lives "in place" all the time, and doesn't bounce off nor flop around, it clears everything, and if I want to, I can lift it off and hang it up somewhere.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/handle002.jpg
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/handle003.jpg

brian Rupnow
01-08-2011, 08:44 PM
I just finished turning the knurling tool that comes with the "kit" into a third tool holder. That material, whatever the toolholders is made of---can be cut with HSS tooling, but its tougher than whalebone.--I cut the end with the knurling wheels off with my bandsaw. I should have had carbide endmills to cut the slot through all the way----My 3/8" HSS endmill needs to go for sharpening now. I ended up having to carbide drill the holes through for two additional set screws, and fortunately I had a brand new M8-1.5 tap. so---I have a third lathe cutting tool holder now. If I'd known how difficult it was going to be to mill and drill the existing one I might have started with a fresh peice of 1018/1020 mild steel and made the whole thing.-Aw well, what the heck---wife and grand daughter have went to the show to see a kids movie. I didn't have anything else to amuse myself with this evening anyways.

legendboy
01-12-2011, 01:04 PM
Getting rid of my B2227 lathe was a happy day for me! lol

I hated that thing with a passion

brian Rupnow
01-19-2011, 09:42 AM
Just a quick follow up post on this qctp. It takes a bit of getting used to, and as someone pointed out, you can never have enough tool holders. The other day I made the finger screws for attaching the battery leads to my kerzel engine. This involved turning a diameter, knurling, turning a taper, and using a cut off tool. Three tool changes in all with two "toolholder angle" changes. It was a pure pleasure to use. The nice thing about it is that once a tool is set up at the correct height in the holder, and locked, you never have to monkey around with spacers again, no matter how many times you change that tool, untill the time comes when you have to remove the tool from its specific holder to resharpen it. I really like the tool, and though it is not a definite must for the hobby machinist, it certainly removes a lot of the friggery and set-up each time a tool is changed.

hareng
01-19-2011, 10:29 AM
Mine never come out of the holders to sharpen or replace the tips.

I am in the process of setting up a slightly bigger lathe but already converted the top slide to accept from old machine. It did have a decent Dickson toolpost but the shear amount of holders needed would cost a fortune. One T2 holder about same price as the chinese complete kit.
Top slide butchered ready, i did cut the T slot out.
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/Jonhareng/Jons%20machining/Tailstockramtapped-1.jpg

On the subject of handles to replace the nut, it was the first thing i did when had the 250 series around 8 years ago.
Can see it here forgot what the thread is but its a standard.
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/Jonhareng/Jons%20machining/RamFixing2clearance.jpg
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/Jonhareng/Jons%20machining/RamFixing3.jpg

hareng
01-19-2011, 10:37 AM
Since i am permanently changing tool angles above handle was made.
Even made a specific 4 way toolpost more robust with similar handle as well.
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL15/728921/1252422/14577361.jpg

Brian i am intrigued by your cross slide depth stops and have spent many an hour contemplating what to do.
I need it at the rear though, nothing in front or behind cross slide. Full travel of Y cross slide and i will have around 18" left before touching the back of the swarf tray. Need stops in and out.

Steelmaster
01-19-2011, 04:39 PM
One of the first things I turned on my new 9x20 was a new handle to replace the nut on my QCTP, with a custom made knob made out of some PR I cast.

http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt145/peregrinefred/Metal%20Lathe%20and%20Mill/20080926_113_small.jpg

I have since made another one as this one left a bit to be desired finish wise.

I have also made a new donut type base for the toolpost.

http://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt145/peregrinefred/Metal%20Lathe%20and%20Mill/IMG_2408.jpg