PDA

View Full Version : Kurt-vs-Glacern?



wierdscience
01-07-2011, 12:02 AM
Got a dilemma,looking to buy a new 6" mill vise for work.It's boiled down to one of two vises.

Either the Kurt D688-

http://www.millvises.com/KURT/KURT-D688-VISES.htm

Or the Glacern GSV-690

http://www.glacern.com/gsv_690

The two seem to be pretty much all around equals,except in price,the Glacern is $140-180 less than the Kurt.

tmc_31
01-07-2011, 12:12 AM
Wierdscience,

About a year ago I bought a Kurt D675 on an Enco special. It is a great vise. There is nothing about it that I don't like. That said, at some point I am going to order a set of 2 matched 4" vises. From what I am hearing about the Glacern vises, and the price differential between them and the 4" Kurts, I will most likely be ordering the Glacern vises. I have not heard anything negative about them at all.

Tim

doctor demo
01-07-2011, 12:30 AM
Got a dilemma,looking to buy a new 6' mill vise for work.It's boiled down to one of two vises.

Either the Kurt D688-
Or the Glacern GSV-690
The two seem to be pretty much all around equals,except in price,the Glacern is $140-180 less than the Kurt.
Try the Glacern, They advertise here, I haven't heard anything bad about them,and if You really really like it I might buy one.:)

Steve

scmw
01-07-2011, 12:38 AM
I too bought a pair of D675's from Enco last June. They were $409 with free shipping. Plus I had a 20% off coupon. That deal will come back around. For that price vs. what it would cost to ship the Glacern's, I'd go with the Kurt. Plus it's a veteran owned company.

MickeyD
01-07-2011, 12:43 AM
I have both Glacern (one of their 6" double vises) and Kurt (just added a pair of 688's) and I think the Kurts are a notch above. The Glacerns are very nice, but I can see still using the Kurts 20 years from now.

Fasttrack
01-07-2011, 12:47 AM
A 6 foot vice ... eh?

I say buy one of both and then write up an extensive review so I know which one to buy. While you're at it, why don't you buy one of those Parlec vises, also. Because I'm feeling generous, I might even pitch 50 cents towards the effort. :D

wierdscience
01-07-2011, 12:53 AM
A 6 foot vice ... eh?

Hey,I'm typing in the dark,so lay off:D


I say buy one of both and then write up an extensive review so I know which one to buy. While you're at it, why don't you buy one of those Parlec vises, also. Because I'm feeling generous, I might even pitch 50 cents towards the effort. :D

Okay,I'll buy an extra vise and send one to you,if you send me one of your extra Pacemakers,seeing as you have 15 of the things:D

Black_Moons
01-07-2011, 01:48 AM
If you are gonna go glacern, Take a look at there 615: http://www.glacern.com/gpv_615

The extra mounting flanges that are recessed, and the 2 right through the ways allow you to easily mount it parallel to the table, and side by side another vise.

tdmidget
01-07-2011, 07:04 AM
Try the Glacern, They advertise here, I haven't heard anything bad about them,and if You really really like it I might buy one.:)

Steve

So does every other piece of Chinese crap. Oh i forgot. It's only the castings that are Chinese, the shameless copying of Kurt's Anglok principle occurs right here in the USA. What if this your intellectual property being stolen?

You should be ashamed you even thought about it.

lazlo
01-07-2011, 08:04 AM
So does every other piece of Chinese crap. Oh i forgot. It's only the castings that are Chinese, the shameless copying of Kurt's Anglok principle occurs right here in the USA.

I think the Glacern's are entirely made in Taiwan. Someone posted the Taiwanese OEM over at PracticalMachinist -- the vises are identical.

Darin: Enco has the 688's on sale nearly every month for $500 with free shipping, and last month they had 10% off plus free shipping.

So you're talking $450 to your door, no sales tax. That's hard to beat.

MickeyD
01-07-2011, 08:04 AM
I also have a pair of Parlecs and would rate them about the same as the Glacern. Nice but it is worth spending a little extra and getting a Kurt if at all possible.

lazlo
01-07-2011, 08:07 AM
I also have a pair of Parlecs and would rate them about the same as the Glacern.

Parlecs are also made in Taiwan. Very likely by the same OEM that makes the Glacern vises.

Rosco-P
01-07-2011, 08:40 AM
If "work" needs a new mill vise and you aren't paying for it (unless work = your wallet), why would you risk buying the cheaper chinese vise just to save a $100 or so? Enco just had the 10% + free shipping last month, ended on New Years Eve.

lazlo
01-07-2011, 08:42 AM
Enco just had the 10% + free shipping last month, ended on New Years Eve.

Enco has been sending out those 10% Off + Free Shipping monthly, for awhile. But they're educational codes, so we need Christian, Fastrack, or Dr. Stan to let us in on the deal :)

Ken_Shea
01-07-2011, 09:16 AM
I also have a pair of Parlecs and would rate them about the same as the Glacern. Nice but it is worth spending a little extra and getting a Kurt if at all possible.

Agreed, still kicking my self for buying the second vice, a Parlec and not buying another Kurt to match the first, although there is not a thing wrong with the Parlec,

Boucher
01-07-2011, 10:55 AM
I went with a Glacern 615 http://www.glacern.com/gpv_615 .
I had an 8” Yuasa that came with my first mill. The quality was excellent but with swivel base it weighs 140 lb. The Glacern is excellent and fits the Bridgeport table better than the 8”. It is much easier to handle size wise. I recently bought a Glacern GSV- 440 4”vise with swivel base. I had several projects that needed to turn at angles. It has been a real pleasure to use. I think you will be satisfied with either Kurt or Glacern. There were some negative comments on new production Kurts over on the PM site some time back. I didn’t know how to evaluate that.

squirrel
01-07-2011, 12:07 PM
I am not sure if Kurt is 100% made in USA, they seem to be branding cheap import stuff Kurt. If an item has 51% of the value from USA made it is legally made in USA. The kurt casting is stamped USA, but how do you know if the rest is made here? I bought a set of magnetic vise jaws with a parallels set from them, the jaws have their patent number on them but the parallels were cheap imports still in rice paper and grease!!!!!!!!! I was extremely pissed, called Kurt and spoke with a lady that said to get used to it and she did not care one bit that I was upset after being decieved. After all that I doubt we will buy any more new Kurt vises.

lazlo
01-07-2011, 12:25 PM
If an item has 51% of the value from USA made it is legally made in USA.

That's incorrect. We've discussed this many times. In order to be marked "Made In USA" it has to be "All or virtually All" Made in USA, including all the materials and components.


http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/.../ruleroad.shtm

"Made in the U.S.A.

A product has to be "all or virtually all made in the United States" for it to be advertised or labeled as "Made in the U.S.A."

Starrett found that out the hard way.

http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/madeusa/letters/starret.shtm

"Because Starrett's measuring tapes contained more than a negligible amount of foreign content, a "Made in USA" claim or other unqualified domestic origin claim would not be appropriate."

Seastar
01-07-2011, 12:25 PM
I cannot offer any advice on a mill vise since I have only two cheap Chinese imports.
They work ok for my poor skill level.

However, to be labled "Made In USA" requires that "all or virtually all" of the device be of US origin, not 51%.
Bill

I type slow LOL

RobbieKnobbie
01-07-2011, 08:44 PM
Not to hijack the thread or anything, but why doesn't anyone ever mention the old Bridgeport vises? We're never shy about singing the praises of other old used american products.

I have one of the old Bridgeport vises and I love the thing to pieces. Stout, sturdy and strong. (plus I got it for free, but that's another story).

So my advise would be to go scour Craigslist for a good used american South Ben... errr, I mean... Bridgeport Vise! :D

EddyCurr
01-07-2011, 08:59 PM
I considered both Kurt and Parlec 6" vises for use on a mill drill. I
knew about the discounted pricing but procrastinated because of an
impression that these were overly large for my application.
Alternatively, the capacity of the 4" versions was smaller than I
anticipated utilizing.

For me, the Glacern 5" was an ideal fit for my requirements. I have a
matched pair of them and am pleased with the operation and finish.

I later learned that Kurt used to make a 5" capacity vise, but to the best
of my knowledge, these are only available second-hand now. The used
one pictured below is currently listed on eBay with a BiN of $289


Item number: 180609010918

http://i.ebayimg.com/11/!B+(ww5!BWk~$(KGrHqZ,!hYEze(HqsTwBM+,ieDtMw~~_12.J PG
No regrets over my decision to go with the Glacern 5"
.

lane
01-07-2011, 09:12 PM
Once you use a Kurt nothing else will do . Their are some other good vises out their but they are not Kurts . Their IS a Difference. . I speak from experience.

lazlo
01-07-2011, 09:14 PM
Not to hijack the thread or anything, but why doesn't anyone ever mention the old Bridgeport vises? We're never shy about singing the praises of other old used american products.

I have one of the old Bridgeport vises and I love the thing to pieces. Stout, sturdy and strong.

The Bridgeport vises are very nice. I also have a 20 year old Yuasa 5" Made in Japan vise (an exact copy of the Kurt) that I bought from Reliable. It's a really nice vise after I replaced the cracked thrust bearing :rolleyes:

japcas
01-07-2011, 09:17 PM
Not to hijack the thread or anything, but why doesn't anyone ever mention the old Bridgeport vises? We're never shy about singing the praises of other old used american products. :D

Because most of these old vises are worn out and the movable jaw is notorious for lifting the part while you clamp, unlike the Kurt type vise that pulls the movable jaw down while clamping. After using a kurt style vise, most people wouldn't have the old style vise.

wierdscience
01-07-2011, 09:37 PM
The mill this vise is going on is only So-so,it's no virgin.The vise that is on it is a 20 y/o Polish Kurt clone,cannot complain about that vise,it's just shot.

I am wondering about where Kurt's castings are made,as are Glacerns and the newer Bison offerings.They all look alike,but Bison tells me their's are made in Poland.Maybe it's just what happens when a patent runs out?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320635429062&hlp=false&rvr_id=195195330898&crlp=1_263602_304652&UA=WVI7&GUID=636a68db12d0a0aad5807e40ff018b4b&itemid=320635429062&ff4=263602_304652

I can actually get the Bison vise cheaper than the Kurt and for just a few dollars more than the Glacern.

Ken_Shea
01-07-2011, 10:04 PM
One thing nice about the Kurt is that I've heard you can get two match ground, the Kurt I have and the Parlec are close but you have to fool with them when used as a pair.

Highpower
01-07-2011, 10:16 PM
One thing nice about the Kurt is that I've heard you can get two match ground, the Kurt I have and the Parlec are close but you have to fool with them when used as a pair.I bought a 4" and a 6" Kurt, and wish now that I would have just bought a matched pair of the 4" vices. :(

I found out I liked the 4" so much the 6" is still sitting unopened in the box. I don't work on extremely large pieces obviously... :o

macona
01-07-2011, 10:17 PM
There was a thread over on PM about Kurt vs Glacern. One guy said he ordered a matched pair of Kurts and they were not. He had to regrind them to match.

John Garner
01-07-2011, 10:29 PM
Gerardi makes a sweetheart of a vise, although I don't know how the current price matches up against Kurt. Last time I checked, the Gerardi was lower priced . . . but that was long enough ago that the Italians had their own currency.

http://www.gerardispa.com/index.phtml?Id_Pagina=23&lingua=eng

John

EddyCurr
01-07-2011, 10:35 PM
For the Glacern products, when I purchased mine I was told that
"matching" consists of selecting vises based on the values listed
on their certificates. It is not a case of Glacern pulling two or more
items off the shelf and performing custom operations - nor is there
an additional charge for this matching service.

.

Black_Moons
01-07-2011, 10:42 PM
I bought a 4" and a 6" Kurt, and wish now that I would have just bought a matched pair of the 4" vices. :(

I found out I liked the 4" so much the 6" is still sitting unopened in the box. I don't work on extremely large pieces obviously... :o

I bet someone would trade ya a 4" for your 6".

Highpower
01-07-2011, 10:51 PM
I bet someone would trade ya a (new) 4" for your (new) 6".Somehow I don't see that happening. :p

RB211
01-07-2011, 10:59 PM
I'd imagine the re-sale value of the Kirk is much higher, and with such a small price difference, I'd rather see one of the good American manufacturers get the money.
Better yet, find a used vise, if you ever have to sell it later, you might end up not losing any money at all!

PixMan
01-08-2011, 09:01 AM
Not to hijack the thread or anything, but why doesn't anyone ever mention the old Bridgeport vises? We're never shy about singing the praises of other old used american products.

I have one of the old Bridgeport vises and I love the thing to pieces. Stout, sturdy and strong. (plus I got it for free, but that's another story).

So my advise would be to go scour Craigslist for a good used american South Ben... errr, I mean... Bridgeport Vise! :D

I might agree with you...if I'd never used a Kurt. Aside from the Bridgeport vises "bending" open to push a workpiece up off the parallels, the luxury of being able to bolt the jaws on in unconventional ways to accommodate much larger workpieces is fantastic. Add to that the ease of adding an work stop, soft jaws, and all kinds of other attachments the Kurt vises are leagues above the old Bridgeport vises. And they're American made. ;)

Steve Seebold
01-25-2012, 02:22 AM
I have 2 4 inch Kurd Double-Loc vises I would gladly trade for a couple of Glacern 4 inch standard vises.

noah katz
01-25-2012, 02:58 AM
Re stealing Kurt's IP, the patents are long expired by now, so it's fair game.

macona
01-25-2012, 03:03 AM
Since this thread last year, I bought a Glacern 6" Vise for work. Its a great vise. No complaints at all and every bit as good as the Kurts.

Kurt has become like Bridgeport and South Bend, just another name where others make an equal product. The kleenex of vises.

toolmaker76
01-25-2012, 09:08 AM
I bought a 5" Glacern for my Grizzly G1005 mill just over a year ago, very nice quality vise and money well spent. It is probably the maximum size that I can fit on this mill.

I have used Kurt vises for years, so am familiar with their quality. Like another poster said, the Kurt is just a notch above the Glacern in quality, but the only place I notice it is when cranking the movable jaw in or out, there seems to be a bit more clearance in the Glacern.

Where it counts, clamping pressure and so forth, I have been well satisfied with the Glacern.

gundog
01-25-2012, 09:09 AM
I recently bought 2 Enco brand 6" CNC vises they were $180 each. They are doing the job for me they were rough operating when I got them I took them apart and cleaned the casting sand out of the threads adjusted and lubed them and they work great now.

The casting on the part with the threads were of poor quality with some voids where the threads should be but there is plenty of threads to do the job. The section with the threads is about 6" long and each one had several voids in that area leaving no threads for a 1/2" in a couple spots. I don't think the voids will ever be an issue but they should have been culled if they had any quality control. They work surprisingly well for my needs so far.

I may upgrade them some time in the future but after buying the new to me CNC machine and tooling up for Cat-40 from my old mill with R-8 stuff my budget was slim. The 2 vises are really handy I would never just have one vise for a mill again.

Mike

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=22538168&PMAKA=327-5893

bborr01
01-25-2012, 09:29 AM
Once you use a Kurt nothing else will do . Their are some other good vises out their but they are not Kurts . Their IS a Difference. . I speak from experience.

+1 here. I also speak from experience. I have yet to use a better vise than a Kurt.

Brian

Jim Shaper
01-25-2012, 09:30 AM
I have a pair of 688's I got off CL for $350(for both). Having used many other import vises, I'd spend the money even if I had to buy them new.

They're simply smoother to use.


I do wish the fixed jaw was on the opposite side of them, or that they'd offer a screw with a hex on both ends.

Rich Carlstedt
01-25-2012, 04:32 PM
+1 here. I also speak from experience. I have yet to use a better vise than a Kurt.

Brian


+1 as well
Unless you spend over 1,000 bucks, there is no comparison to a Kurt.

I see posts speaking about quality, but not ever evaluating the real product.
There is more than looks in a vise. The fellow that said he had to regrind the bases on his "new " Kurt should have told Kurt and they would have have replaced them, so I suspect the story may not be factual???
Our local Tech College bought a bunch of import mill vises that look like Kurts but aren't. You can see the nature of their structure .....because they break in half - boy do those broken pieces look good however !

Have bought lots of Kurts for work, and most of the time we did two per mill.
They work fellows !

Rich

Black_Moons
01-25-2012, 07:25 PM
Im a cheap ass who believes in cheap chinese tools being nearly as good as the 10x priced american counterparts.

I bought a Kurt.
In retrospect, I might of bought a glacern had I heard they where nearly as good as Kurt. But I don't reget buying the kurt at all.

I DO reget letting my friend use my mill once and him leaving sweat on my kurts ways leaving a nasty rust stain! Grrrr...

lazlo
01-25-2012, 07:31 PM
Oh i forgot. It's only the castings that are Chinese,

The Glacern vises are made in Taiwan, from what I understand. Someone on PM posted the OEM. Enco is now carrying the same vises under the Te-Co brand.
http://www.direct-line.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=9200809&PMAKA=308-0101

It's pretty hard to beat the Enco deal on Kurt vises. There's a 15% off sale right now, and I *think* Kurt vises have free shipping.

Doozer
01-25-2012, 09:14 PM
I believe a Taiwan company "Auto-Well" makes Glacern's vises for them. Anyone correct me if I am wrong.

I have an AutoWell 5" vise and it is great!

--Doozer

Black_Moons
01-25-2012, 09:52 PM
I could be wrong, But last I heard glacern vises where indeed asian castings, but where ground in the USA. Not that americans are presumabley any better at setting up a surface grinder, But they do seem to take quality and quality control much more seriously in the USA due to the typicaly higher wages.

I do find it kinda funny that both shares and glacerns ads on this website both feature the same style vises, And for once, Everyone is in agreement the much more expensive one is better, And actualy worth it.

You might think "How good does a vise really have to be?"
Awnser: As good as you can get, You'll be using it 90% of the time and its not gonna wear out like an endmill, You won't need 10 of them like boring bars, or face mills. You buy one good vise, And thats basicly it. Maybe some day you'll buy an angle or sine vise that you use once in a blue moon, You'll still use the big solid vise most of the time.

The 10% of the time your not using your vise, You'll wish you where able to put the work in the vise!

Tait
01-26-2012, 01:39 AM
Lane and others write "trust me. I speak from experience."

I would love to trust you, but I have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

So, if you could indulge a newbie:

in comparing a Kurt and a Glacern side by side, what are the differences?

Black_Moons
01-26-2012, 04:27 AM
Lane and others write "trust me. I speak from experience."

I would love to trust you, but I have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

So, if you could indulge a newbie:

in comparing a Kurt and a Glacern side by side, what are the differences?

Unless you get the fancy glacern with the holes in the bedways (for bolting to the T slots) and the recessed clamping ears (Another way to bolt it) for flush side by side mounting and other tasks, As shown here: http://www.glacern.com/thumbs/gpv_03.jpg

The only real diff between kurt and glacern is kurt 'might be' slightly more accurately made by a thou or two, And has USA made castings, So 'might be' slightly stronger (if you snap either in half, your doing something totaly wrong)

lazlo
01-26-2012, 06:43 AM
The only real diff between kurt and glacern is kurt 'might be' slightly more accurately made by a thou or two, And has USA made castings, So 'might be' slightly stronger (if you snap either in half, your doing something totaly wrong)

The 6" Kurt is actually cheaper at Enco during the % off with free shipping sales than buying the "Auto-Well" vise (the GSV-690) from Glascern.
The Te-Co Auto-Well vise I posted above, which looks identical tot he GSV-690, is $25 cheaper, with free shipping.

So for $25 (in the case of the Te-Co), you have to decide between an American vise and a Taiwanese vise.

Note that MickeyD posted above that he has several GSV-690's and a bunch of Kurt's...

photomankc
01-26-2012, 10:19 AM
+1 as well
Unless you spend over 1,000 bucks, there is no comparison to a Kurt.

I see posts speaking about quality, but not ever evaluating the real product.
There is more than looks in a vise. The fellow that said he had to regrind the bases on his "new " Kurt should have told Kurt and they would have have replaced them, so I suspect the story may not be factual???
Our local Tech College bought a bunch of import mill vises that look like Kurts but aren't. You can see the nature of their structure .....because they break in half - boy do those broken pieces look good however !

Have bought lots of Kurts for work, and most of the time we did two per mill.
They work fellows !

Rich

Are they broken Glacerns? Because those are what we are discussing here. My Glacern measures out just fine. The bed is flat to beyond what I can measure in X/Y the fixed jaw is perpendicular to the best of my ability to measure as well. When I get lift it is invariably because the part is some degree of parallelogram. If you go ape on the clamping you can get the casting to flex with a part mounted way up high in the jaws but as I believe all other vices are made of cast iron as well this is not something that only crap vices do.

The jaws I can use as parallels. They are flat, square, and dimensionally equal. You can get a matched set of vices from Glacern for the asking. So, beyond the fact that it holds my work tightly and squarely I'm not sure what else I need to be asking of it so that I would feel as though I need a Kurt to obtain those things.

I have no doubt that Kurt sells a damn good vice. The question is, what difference is there between the Glacern and the Kurt and if there is any is it enough to say that I need to spend that extra to get it? So far I have not seen anyone that undertook the comparison come up with many nits to pick.

Jim Shaper
01-26-2012, 10:53 AM
Buying the Kurt keeps Americans working. Considering they make an outstanding product, at a fair market price (not a premium to acquire), the fact they employ my neighbors is reason enough for me. Kurt is based in MN.

Black_Moons
01-26-2012, 04:22 PM
Buying the Kurt keeps Americans working. Considering they make an outstanding product, at a fair market price (not a premium to acquire), the fact they employ my neighbors is reason enough for me. Kurt is based in MN.

Kinda intresting to consider that kurts are about as cheap (if you look around for a decent sale) as the asian equivilent of the 'same quality' (glacern)

Kinda says "This is what quality costs, No matter who makes it"