Heavy Chucks, need idea,s on a small crane

[8ntsane]

Hey Guys

I could use some idea,s for some sort of small crane to get my larger chucks on my 41 Sidney lathe. My 10 & 12 inch chucks are just way to damn heavy for me these days, and my 14 inch face plate isnt light wt either.

In my shop using a cherry picker, or a siccors cart is out, I have these items all ready, and are very usefull for other things, but in the small shop I now have, its all but impossible to get into position.

What Im looking for is idea,s on a small crane that could be attached to the Lathe itself. I dont have room to use my cherry picker, and the ceiling cant have anything attached either. I can still manage to pick up my heavyest of chucks, and set the chuck on a wood board over the ways, but holding these things up while bolting them up is getting very risky at best.

Im thinking that I coud mount somthing to the LH cabinet , on the rear side.
Or another possible place, is the top headstock cover. Its pretty damn heavy, its 18X21 with 10-3/8 bolts holding it down and heavy as hell. I would think it would hold the wt of a small crane, and the wt of my 12 inch chuck, or my 14 inch face plate.

I do have pics of this lathe on this site, search for ( pics of my 41 Sidney lathe), this thing weighs over 4,000 pounds, so im sure anything thats bolted to it, for changing out my chucks, wont be tipping this thing over.

This Machine is of L-1 chuck mounting, and because most all of my stuff has a adapter plate inbetween them, it only makes a heavy chuck heavyer.
Any and all Idea,s are wellcome, At my age of 52, these seem to be getting heavyer as time passes. I think the old back, could use a little help here.

Thanks
Paul

[The Artful Bodger]

Hmmmmm....

I wonder is you could make a wooden shelf behind the lath and some sort of wooden cradle that would rest on the ways and support the chuck at the required height for mounting........:rolleyes:

You could make a cradle for each chuck, just put the cradle on the ways in front of the required chuck and roll the chuck on to it then slide the cradle up to the headstock, pushing it with the carriage I suppose.

Mounting the chuck would be the reverse operation.

The shelf would need some sort of chocks to stop the chucks not in use from rolling onto the lathe!:eek:

[BadDog]

I had the same problem, my 15" 4 jaw weighs something well over 100 lbs. And my Troyke 12" Cross Slide Rotab weighs more than that.

So I acquired a t-slot table from a scrapped boring mill, built a support frame with heavy locking casters, and adapted one of those yellow mini-cranes that fit on the tool post (don't recall the name, but always yellow, chain not cable, hand wheel for running up/down, and usually a mount for dovetail tool post). So now I can roll over and pick up heavy things (using out-riggers to prevent tipping if lifting from side), transfer to table, and the transfer to where needed, including mounting the little lift on the lathe tool post if desired.

[8ntsane]

Hmmmmm....

I wonder is you could make a wooden shelf behind the lath and some sort of wooden cradle that would rest on the ways and support the chuck at the required height for mounting........:rolleyes:

You could make a cradle for each chuck, just put the cradle on the ways in front of the required chuck and roll the chuck on to it then slide the cradle up to the headstock, pushing it with the carriage I suppose.

Mounting the chuck would be the reverse operation.

The shelf would need some sort of chocks to stop the chucks not in use from rolling onto the lathe!:eek:

Thanks for the thought , Artful
I had thought about a set up like that, but this machine really throws chips around. I have a metal sheid in the works now because of the mess of chips that accumulate behind this machine. If I had the room for separate cradles, that idea would work, but unfortunatly space is very limited, and the chucks allready have a home in a enclosed cabinet, to keep them from collecting chips.
But thanks for the thoughts

[8ntsane]

I had the same problem, my 15" 4 jaw weighs something well over 100 lbs. And my Troyke 12" Cross Slide Rotab weighs more than that.

So I acquired a t-slot table from a scrapped boring mill, built a support frame with heavy locking casters, and adapted one of those yellow mini-cranes that fit on the tool post (don't recall the name, but always yellow, chain not cable, hand wheel for running up/down, and usually a mount for dovetail tool post). So now I can roll over and pick up heavy things (using out-riggers to prevent tipping if lifting from side), transfer to table, and the transfer to where needed, including mounting the little lift on the lathe tool post if desired.


Baddog (Russ)
If you could post up a few pics of your setup, sounds interesting. I have not seen a lift that mounts to the tool post before.Sounds like a cool idea for the same problems.
Thanks

[hardtail]

I'm going to mount unistrut from the ceiling joists to make a light weight monorail and trolley that goes overtop the lathe headstaock and continues on to the mill.

I have one of those toolpost cranes and was going to mount it on a storage cart instead of the toolpost.......seems like a bit of stress for mounting it the way it's intended........

http://i509.photobucket.com/albums/s337/corn56/100_0446.jpg

[BadDog]

That's just like mine, except for the t-slot table/cart.

[KEJR]

I agree with Artful Bodger's idea. Make a block that slides on the lathe bed and then have wooden adapters that hold the different diameter chucks on center.

I sounds like you just need to get the chucks close enough so that you can start the L0 nut to pull the chuck onto the taper without simultaneously supporting all the weight.

You could make three individual chocks, but it might make more sense to have one look like a large wooden Vee block and then a 2" adapter plate under it to space between the 10" and 12" chucks. You might need a separate adapter for the faceplate since it is a bit more awkward and wants to tip over more so than the chucks.

Otherwise, use one of those trolley cranes attached to your ceiling. they have a crank with a hook and belt and can slide back and forth on rollers.


KEJR

[8ntsane]

I'm going to mount unistrut from the ceiling joists to make a light weight monorail and trolley that goes overtop the lathe headstaock and continues on to the mill.

I have one of those toolpost cranes and was going to mount it on a storage cart instead of the toolpost.......seems like a bit of stress for mounting it the way it's intended........

http://i509.photobucket.com/albums/s337/corn56/100_0446.jpg

Hardtail
That is a interesting looking little crane. Would you happen to remember what brand that is, or who sells it. That crane looks like it would work fine on my lathe, My lathe is built like a tank, and I don,t think it would over stress mine at all. From the pic, I assume the one shown is fixed as far as mast height, and boom length, but probably swivels at the base?

Thanks

[hardtail]

Says Ralmikes Tool-O-Rama......got mine for free out of the scrap bin.......could probably search ebay for a deal..........

[BadDog]

Search for "Sky Hook" and "lathe".

I use wooden blocks for my smaller chucks. Just some scrap redwood 2x4s sized to hold my 8" and 10" 3 jaws along with my 12" 4 jaw at the right height to fit the spindle when setting on the bed. Even has a notch to fit the front prismatic way so it's automatically aligned and easy to slide the pins into place. And since I rarely need the full length, it also works great to store them at the foot of my long 60" C2C lathe bed. Just lift by hand (smaller ones) or crane and set near the spindle to load/unload chucks.

[ken]

http://www.skyhook.cc/model8500.html I have one of these small cranes and love it I got mine for $ 20 at a machinery dealer because it dint work the chain got knoted up. Ken

[8ntsane]

Thanks for the link Ken, Hardtail and Baddog

Yes , this type of crane looks like it would work for me just fine, and at 23 lbs it would be easy to manage. I like the idea of it would swivel out to the front of my machine. I could use it to set my chuck on my scissors lift cart, then just lower the cart to the proper height to slide the chuck into the steel cabinet where the chucks live. This way, there is no lifting for me at all, except for the crane itself, I like that way of thinkin.

Hey Hardtail
Sounds like your going a different route for lifting your heavy items with a ceiling mounted setup. My ceiling is all drywalled, so not in the cards for doing that in my case. How ever, I see your in Alberta, if you are interested in selling the unit you now have, I could definatly make good use of it. PM me if you interested.

Thanks to all that replyed to this post, I do think this little crane is the best solution to my problem. Now to getting my hands on one. Is there other companys that make a simular crane?

Thanks

[jdunmyer]

Here it is in Enco's catalog: http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=308-0620&PMPXNO=12853690&PARTPG=INLMK3 at nearly $700.00. Sure would like to find one for a bit cheaper. <<sigh>>

[MrDan]

This is the hoist that I just put up last week. I bought it off an auction and have about $50 in it (it was part of a larger lot, I'm estimating). With minor modifications I've put it up in an area where I have 10' to the ceiling joists so not a huge amount of clearance. I don't know if you have 10' but I could have made this work with 8' or so, same setup.

Btw, I've only load tested this to about 300lbs, which is it's rated capacity. I just haven't had time yet to do more. I also haven't had time to clean it or run a dedicated air line to it. It's pretty much as I found it in the factory. If it picks 150 that's enough for my needs. It's really just like the OP, I don't want to struggle with heavy chucks. I will clean it though, I promise. :)

I hope this helps. I REALLY struggled with how to get some lifting capacity above my tools.

If this won't work, some of the large lathes I've seen have aluminum cranes mounted to the tailstock side of the casting. A simple jib crane arrangement that works off the lathes own weight. I liked the tailstock side setup because they stayed out of the way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSCdvolsOg8

http://gallery.me.com/mrdan27611/100030/IMG_0054/web.jpg?ver=12947100020001

http://gallery.me.com/mrdan27611/100030/IMG_0055/web.jpg?ver=12947099440001

http://gallery.me.com/mrdan27611/100030/IMG_0056/web.jpg?ver=12947098770001

[MrDan]

Last pic.

http://gallery.me.com/mrdan27611/100030/IMG_0057/web.jpg?ver=12947098200001

[hardtail]

Thats right proper term is skyhook.......I actually have about a 7 stage lifting systems depending on what I'm working on.......that said I can still manhandle my 12" rotab and 4 jaw but the day will come when I can't.....after 2 hernias I propably shouldn't right now........LOL

There is a guy on Canada ebay Fuller tools I think in Ont that might have something like this but he doesn't exactly give his stuff away.........

MrD is showing stage 5 of my lifting systems.......air hoist, great w remote, fast, easy, good for 1/2 ton and doesn't arc any brushes if your using it to weld and fabricate......got mine for $60, was 3K new.........my remote is seperate, thats kind of odd having it follow the hook?

Even with a drywall ceiling if you can locate your joists you could secure the unistrut to them........Willy had a link to unistruts little trolleys they sell for this purpose but a guy with a lathe could make their own..........

[MrDan]

MrD is showing stage 5 of my lifting systems.......air hoist, great w remote, fast, easy, good for 1/2 ton and doesn't arc any brushes if your using it to weld and fabricate......got mine for $60, was 3K new.........my remote is seperate, thats kind of odd having it follow the hook?


I have an air hoist with a remote but this little one handed thing seemed awful neat to me. You lift and control the load all with one hand. Time will tell if it's as cool as I think.

[RussZHC]

If you got any connections in the health care industry a patient lift or "Hoyer" lift may work, not sure of capacities and if used is available; sometimes medical related items get pushed to the side at auctions.

I know I've seen some sewer workers using something like a tripod as well to lower equipment...another source could be something like small service trucks use, IIRC there are some that fit into the stake holes of PU truck beds.

[Ian B]

Here's how I did it:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/1003/IanBartlett/?action=view&current=OverheadBeam01.jpg&newest=1

The load is spread to the wooden beams by plates both sides and M12 bolts through. The chain block is rated at 500Kg - I'd have liked a 250Kg one, but couldn't find one locally. The only real mod I made was to shorten the hand chain to keep it out of the way.

I use a variety of methods to hook onto the chucks / faceplates - sometimes a nylon strop, sometimes a cranked hook that fits inside the chuck, for faceplates a fork with a pin that goes through one of the bolt holes.

Nothing that I'm lifting weighs more than about 30Kg, and it's done wonders for reducing back strain!

Ian

[Rosco-P]

Ditto on the invalid lift or "Hoyer" lift. Got an off-brand one, 350lb working capacity, found a used one in the classifieds. Smaller, lighter weight and less clumsy in a shop than an engine crane, cherry picker, die lift, etc., versatile for loading big parts, chuck, rotary tables, machine repair, motors,....

[8ntsane]

Thanks guys for showing your set ups.
Ive been out in my garage looking at all possible ways that have been shown so far. I really like those overhead systems that have been shown since I have last posted on this. Love to have a setup such as that, but my place is just too small for that type of arrangment. Low ceiling is one problem, the next is the garage door would be a problem, wouldnt be a problem if I never opened it,lol. My garage has these platforms that are mounted just above the garage door for storage. This makes any sort of rail system impossible to rig up. Of coarse they could be torn down, but then I would have all the crap that up there now to deal with.

I did have a look at the Hoyer lift, they appear to be a lite wt cherry picker, that would eat up floor space that I dont have now, Nice looking rig, but needs the space to use it, and then park it. So thats out.

After have a good long look at the shop lay out, moving the lathe wont work either. So it looks like Im going to have to stay with the small crane, like Hardtail has. The other option would be a Jib type setup with articulating arm, with a small block & tackle on it. Having it mounted off the RH cabinet of the lathe, on the rear side. Another thought would be a heavy plate slipped under the same said cabinet, and bolt the Jib setup onto that.
My lathe is over 4,000 pds, so I would imagine, it should stay put.

I think Dan had mentioned a tailstock mounted crane. I have never seen one before. If anyone has any input on those, and or pics, I sure would like to see them. I did have a look for one of those sky hook cranes on kijiji, craigslist and such, and didnt find any at this point in time. Ill be keepin my eyes open for one regardless. I guess at 700.00 bucks new, they arnt cheap, but hell, whats my back worth, or a crushed foot? The item would seem cheap, if it would save a accident.

As you can guess, I allready have way to much $hit stuffed in my one car garage, and no extra foor space to use up. Thanks for all these idea,s so far guys. Those overhead lifts are sweet, but in my case, I could only dream about it!

[MrDan]

I think Dan had mentioned a tailstock mounted crane. I have never seen one before. If anyone has any input on those, and or pics, I sure would like to see them. I did have a look for one of those sky hook cranes on kijiji, craigslist and such, and didnt find any at this point in time. Ill be keepin my eyes open for one regardless. I guess at 700.00 bucks new, they arnt cheap, but hell, whats my back worth, or a crushed foot? The item would seem cheap, if it would save a accident.


The tailstock mounted cranes were on most of the lathes in a factory in Greenville, SC. They appeared to have been made on site and basically consisted of an all aluminum setup. A base plate was drilled and bolted to the casting of the lathe on the tailstock side. I don't recall exactly what the rotation part of crane was (bearings, simple slip fit, etc) but it was fairly simple. A box section arm came up and over and reached to the headstock. I could draw something simple that I recall but I don't have a way to send the drawing to you. The only dodgy part of the whole thing was drilling into the casting on your lathe. Everything else was very straight forward and would basically be specific to your situation.

I did look to see if Asset Sales or Google still had the pictures up. They do not. Sorry.

[Doozer]

"The tailstock mounted cranes were on most of the lathes in a factory in Greenville." Michelin US3 or BMW? --Doozer

[MrDan]

"The tailstock mounted cranes were on most of the lathes in a factory in Greenville." Michelin US3 or BMW? --Doozer

I can't recall the name of the place. They made textile manufacturing equipment, apparently on a large scale. Everything is overseas now so they folded and I was at the auction. Lemme see if I can find the name...

Hollingsworth was the name.

[beckley23]

Here's a picture of the crane I built for moving a 150 LB + 4 jaw. It's bolted to rear of the headstock base. Not the most user friendly device, but I rarely change chucks.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/beckley23/se169.jpg

A different perspective.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/beckley23/se176.jpg
Harry

[hardtail]

If your going the way of the tailstock type why not just build the mount like it's live center......mine just snugs down on a stud........bearings would be nice but it could just rotate on a bore and post.......

8ntsane I'm still struggling over a sale......BUT what would one charge for something I got for free.......and 10 yrs down the road I maybe kicking myself for ever doing it.........right now aside from the cart build idea I don't really have a demand as of yet........Travers has them for $599......

[8ntsane]

Thanks Harry
Yes , somthing simular to your crane looks doable. The crane looks like it would pick up much more wt than 150 lbs. I think Ill be going for the machine mounted crane, of one sort or another. This gives me Idea,s, and thats exactly what Im after. It would be machine mounted cranes that im really interested in seeing if anyone else has done a simular thing, please post up your pics.

On the tail stock mounted setup, I cant seem to find anything on those ones.
I do recall some time back seeing one, for some reason my brain tells me Frank Ford posted it. I didnt see it on his site, maybe I,ll just email him and ask.

I might as well see as many different ways to do this before I decide whats the best, and easyest for me.

Again , Thanks to all that are trying to help here.

[vpt]

Has anyone got one of these cheap electric ebay cranes? Are they any good?


http://cgi.ebay.com/440-LB-110-VOLT-ELECTRIC-WIRE-ROPE-CRANE-LIFTING-HOIST-/250496732441?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a52c4cd19

[8ntsane]

Hardtail
PM sent

Thanks Paul

[Davo J]

Has anyone got one of these cheap electric ebay cranes? Are they any good?


http://cgi.ebay.com/440-LB-110-VOLT-ELECTRIC-WIRE-ROPE-CRANE-LIFTING-HOIST-/250496732441?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a52c4cd19

I have had one on my home made jib crane for a bit over 12 months and it is working fine. I find it a bit quick for putting things on the mill table so I bring it down close, then raise the table by hand so there is no impact.

The crane is probably not the sort of crane the OP is interested in though.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Shed%20stuff/Picture466Medium-1.jpg

Dave

[jugs]

Has anyone got one of these cheap electric ebay cranes? Are they any good?


http://cgi.ebay.com/440-LB-110-VOLT-ELECTRIC-WIRE-ROPE-CRANE-LIFTING-HOIST-/250496732441?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a52c4cd19

Yes, several, they are brilliant BUT read Davo J s post, also do what he's done & get a swivel hook.

They are also a good source of a lo-cost reversible geared motor for intermittent use (winding the knee up/down on a big mill or shaper, driving section rollers, powered tailstock feed etc), just strip off the winding drum & replace with pulley/sprocket/gear.

john
:)

[HAP]

Here is what I posted in a thread called "Jib Hoist" a while back. I used an invalid jib from an old hospital bed. I added some bracing to minimize flex based on recomendations from other members here. It is only used to lift and place my super spacer (160lbs) out of its box and on to the mill table. It works quite well with the cheap Grizzly hoist.
Regards,
HAP
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac106/HAPSHOP/Shop%20Stuff/DSCN4884.jpg
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac106/HAPSHOP/DSCN4886.jpg

[vpt]

I have had one on my home made jib crane for a bit over 12 months and it is working fine. I find it a bit quick for putting things on the mill table so I bring it down close, then raise the table by hand so there is no impact.

The crane is probably not the sort of crane the OP is interested in though.

Dave


To fast even with the pulley? About how many inches a second without load does it move?

I wasn't sure if the OP would be interested but I figured I would bring it up because they are cheap.

[rowbare]

Did anyone mention a pickup truck crane? They can be had for less than $200.

bob

[ALWX65]

Wondering if one of these might be an option mounted to a shop cart of some kind ...

http://www.spitzlift.net/?gclid=CJPuwaygtaYCFUGo4Aodmh2RHg

http://www.westernmule.com/bumper_cranes.html

ALW

[roundrocktom]

Frank Ford had a super neat solution with a differential pulley. Pretty slick little solution.

http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Projects/MiniHoist/minihoist.html

Differential Pulley write up (I knew about those things, and forgot about them!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_pulley

[Davo J]

To fast even with the pulley? About how many inches a second without load does it move?

I wasn't sure if the OP would be interested but I figured I would bring it up because they are cheap.

The lifting speed is a bit to fast unless your your real careful as between a quick on off it moves a few inches. Easier to just wind the table up to meet it.
I tried a 2 wheel pulley on the bottom and a single one on top so it had an extra loop to slow it down, but the wire is so stiff it would need a decent weight on the hook to keep the hook down and the cables tight to stop the pulleys flipping over etc. I have been thinking about using some lifting rope that you can buy instead of the wire as it is a lot more flexible but haven't chased it up to try it out.

The lifting speed as advertised is
Lifting Speed(Single Rope): 10m/min
Lifting Speed(Double Rope): 5m/min
If my calculations are right that works out to be
6.561 inches per second
and
3.281 inches per second
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/BRAND-NEW-250-500-KG-11M-ROPE-ELECTRIC-WINCH-HOIST-/130472890197?pt=AU_Hardware&hash=item1e60ca4f55


Dave

[lane]

Hardtail
That is a interesting looking little crane. Would you happen to remember what brand that is, or who sells it. That crane looks like it would work fine on my lathe, My lathe is built like a tank, and I don,t think it would over stress mine at all. From the pic, I assume the one shown is fixed as far as mast height, and boom length, but probably swivels at the base?

Thanks
It is called a sky hook . Most tool catalogs sell them.Here is my home made one
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Hoistformill004.jpg

[Nightshift]

It is called a sky hook . Most tool catalogs sell them.Here is my home made one
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Hoistformill004.jpg
Lane, that is awesome man! I've been looking for something like this for my Bridgeport for a long time to move the vice, rotary & angle tables on/off the mill. I'm too cheap to buy one, but can easily make one. Would you be willing to share some closeup details of your lift and maybe the key measurements? I'm sure there are lots of guys here who would really like to know more as I do. Thanks in advance. Cheers, Bill

[8ntsane]

Lane, that is awesome man! I've been looking for something like this for my Bridgeport for a long time to move the vice, rotary & angle tables on/off the mill. I'm too cheap to buy one, but can easily make one. Would you be willing to share some closeup details of your lift and maybe the key measurements? I'm sure there are lots of guys here who would really like to know more as I do. Thanks in advance. Cheers, Bill

Bill if you goggle up sky hook lifting device, all the basic measurments are on the site. I think Lanes would be close to that one. What part of Ont Bill?

Thanks

[Nightshift]

Bill if you goggle up sky hook lifting device, all the basic measurments are on the site. I think Lanes would be close to that one. What part of Ont Bill?

Thanks
London (will change profile). You're a couple hours away. My nephew is a doc there in Barrie. Cheers, Bill