Photos and Copyright

[bborr01]

Hi Guys,

I have a question about copyright as it pertains to photos.

I have read the terms of use for photobucket and flickr and unless I am missing something, when you upload a photo to these sites you surrender your copyright protection. This is even if you just upload them to have them printed.

Am I reading this right or am I missing something?

Brian

[Evan]

If you make the material "private" then they have no right in the material.

6. Proprietary Rights in Content on Photobucket.

o 6.1 Photobucket does not claim any ownership rights in the text, files, images, photos, video, sounds, musical works, works of authorship, applications, or any other materials (collectively, "Content") that you post on or through the Photobucket Services. By displaying or publishing ("posting") any Content on or through the Photobucket Services, you hereby grant to Photobucket and other users a non-exclusive, fully paid and royalty-free, worldwide, limited license to use, modify, delete from, add to, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce and translate such Content, including without limitation distributing part or all of the Site in any media formats through any media channels, except Content marked "private" will not be distributed outside the Photobucket Services. Photobucket and/or other Users may copy, print or display publicly available Content outside of the Photobucket Services, including without limitation, via the Site or third party websites or applications (for example, services allowing Users to order prints of Content or t-shirts and similar items containing Content). After you remove your Content from the Photobucket Website we will cease distribution as soon as practicable, and at such time when distribution ceases, the license to such Content will terminate. If after we have distributed your Content outside the Photobucket Website you change the Content’s privacy setting to "private," we will cease any further distribution of such "private" Content outside the Photobucket Website as soon as practicable.

What it means is that if you make your content public then the public is permitted to use your content including the right to print your content. This is to protect PB against claims of aiding in violating your copyright. If you keep your content private the you retain full rights to that content. It seems reasonable to me.

[bborr01]

Thanks Evan.

This whole copyright thing seems very complicated. When you add trademarks and patents, things overwhelm me a little.

I understand that advertisers can no longer use the term "superbowl" without the consent on the NFL or some other designated organization. Are they going to come after me for using the word without asking?

In another thread about LED's, I saw what I am pretty sure was Evans "ray of death flashlight" in an advertisement for LED's.

Did they get Evans consent to use the image or just lift it from this site?

Is it reasonable to assume that any image that any of us use photobucket to post on this bbs is fair game for anyone to use for any reason without accreditation or compensation?

Just trying to get my head around this.

I have a collection of many thousand images and before I go and make them all public domain, I would like to know my options.

Thanks,
Brian

[Doc Nickel]

A bit of clarification: Photobucket's blurb as posted is more "CYA" for Photobucket themselves, than anything- as Evan notes, it's to protect them against "aiding copyright violation" charges.

But that does NOT mean you have surrendered copyright for images you've uploaded. Yes, individuals may end up copying the photos for various personal uses, but if a website posts one as their own content, or an advertiser incorporates it into their promotional materials, etc, you are still very much within your rights to either issue a cease-and-desist or even sue.

Doc.

[bborr01]

A bit of clarification: Photobucket's blurb as posted is more "CYA" for Photobucket themselves, than anything- as Evan notes, it's to protect them against "aiding copyright violation" charges.

But that does NOT mean you have surrendered copyright for images you've uploaded. Yes, individuals may end up copying the photos for various personal uses, but if a website posts one as their own content, or an advertiser incorporates it into their promotional materials, etc, you are still very much within your rights to either issue a cease-and-desist or even sue.

Doc.

Is that to say that the person who takes the photo owns the rights to said photo no matter what, short of selling them or signing them away?

Or are there some hoops to jump through, like the little copyright symbol on all of your photos?

Brian

[Evan]

You own the copyright, period. No registration required and no notice required on the image. Those items just give you additional leverage in court to collect damages. Copyright can only be transferred to another party by a written contract. You may temporarily licence copyright to somebody such as Photobucket but you can't even give it to them if you tried without a written and signed document. You can however give it to everybody at once permanently if you declare it to be in the public domain.

Once you do that you lose all rights to the image except one. They may use the image any way they wish for any purpose with one important exception. You still retain what is called "Moral Copyright". That means that you can still order somebody to stop using your work even if it is in the public domain if the use of the work reflects badly on you personally or if it breaks any law by it's use. Moral copyright cannot be assigned, given away or sold. Any contract that has wording to that effect is superceeded by Federal Law.

Did they get Evans consent to use the image or just lift it from this site?

I posted those images there on purpose. It was a sort of test to see if the idea would be copied. It seems that it might have been.

This product appeared as a new product about 4 months later.

[dp]

This part of the blurb makes it clear you suspend exclusive use privileges for all non -private images. You continue to own them but any user can use it as they wish. It also says in that blurb that even if marked private, other members can continue to use your images but they will cease to present them.

you hereby grant to Photobucket and other users a non-exclusive, fully paid and royalty-free, worldwide, limited license to use, modify, delete from, add to, publicly perform, publicly display, reproduce and translate such Content, including without limitation distributing part or all of the Site in any media formats through any media channels, except Content marked "private" will not be distributed outside the Photobucket Services

[bborr01]

This part of the blurb makes it clear you suspend exclusive use privileges for all non -private images. You continue to own them but any user can use it as they wish. It also says in that blurb that even if marked private, other members can continue to use your images but they will cease to present them.

So does photobucket have the right to supercede copyright law by making it part of their terms of use that you surrender rights by using their service?

Brian

[dp]

So does photobucket have the right to supercede copyright law by making it part of their terms of use that you surrender rights by using their service?

Brian

Only if you agree to the terms.

[Jaakko Fagerlund]

And then there comes the laws of different countries. For example fair use is defined a little bit different around the globe and under our copyright law I could take any picture and present it in a news article or something relevant and it would be legal, as long as the image source is mentioned (sitation). But then again everything is copyrighted unless the maker of the picture/movie says otherwise.

[Evan]

So does photobucket have the right to supercede copyright law by making it part of their terms of use that you surrender rights by using their service?

They aren't "superceeding" the law. The copyright is yours and you decide what is acceptable. If you don't like the terms of use then don't post any pictures that are public. You may still post private pictures and link to them. They just won't be viewable from your public album. I take the view that anything that I post here may be copied and used for personal use. If I should discover a picture in commercial use I will send a letter to either cease or to negotiate payment for further use. Once you have notified someone that they are using an image without permission the damages due to you accumulate on a daily basis if they do not stop using it. That can be come very expensive for them. In a case like that you hold all the cards as long as you can show that the image is yours without doubt.

Copyright law is very similar in most countries because most countries are signatories to the Berne Convention on Copyright. It spells out the basic terms and rights that every content creator has. The deck is very heavily stacked in favor of the content creators and that includes you and I when we take pictures and distribute them online.

There are differences in the details, especially in the USA in respect of content protected by "technological means" which mainly means encryption. That however does not fall under the purview of the Copyright act but under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. That is an entirely different area of law that is outside of the Berne Convention for the most part.

[bborr01]

So if I post a link to a photo here that is in a private photobucket account or folder, will it still show up here?

Brian

[Evan]

It should but I haven't checked it out lately. YouTube allows that and it works fine.

[PixMan]

So if I post a link to a photo here that is in a private photobucket account or folder, will it still show up here?

Brian

Lets find out. I made the album that this photo is in be "private". Do you see the photo?

[Evan]

Looks good to me. That should be the end of any concerns about PhotoBucket and their terms and conditions.