Bridgeport Series 1 CNC Mill retro. im new here and need help!! lol

[dbug454]

hi every one! im new here and new to cnc, i have been taking apart electronics since i was a kid!lol i Just got a Bridgeport Series 1 CNC Mill to retro, and need some help to do it right. i have a breakout board already its over kill i think but thats ok here it is 5 Axis CNC Stepper Motor Driver Controller Board TB6560 (http://cgi.ebay.com/5-Axis-CNC-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Controller-Board-TB6560-/270661913313?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f04b50ae1) now i like what motorworks did to his BP and i think thats what i want to do am going to use the BP steppers i was wanting to know what you think i need to look out for and i was hoping motorworks my find it in his heart to take some new pics of his BP Power Box :) and tall me how to wire up the transformer? thanks ahead of time for all your help and look forward to talking to all of you,
thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sdeering]

I have a Boss 5 that I converted.
I removed everything except the steppers and limit switches.
I have herd some using on of the origional transformers for the DC power supply. Cant remember which one now.
I found a big toroid out of a batt charger I think. I rewound the secondary to give 70v once rectifyed.
Are you planning on using Mach3?
Stephen

[dbug454]

hi Stephen. ya im planning on using Mach3, ya i herd of ones using the original transformers to but don't know how they did the wiring. im glad to hear of so many doing this! :) do you have any pics of what you did? that you can post or email? i would like to see them maybe it will give me some ideas. so do you know are the steppers 70v? and 8amps?

if theirs any info on the BP i can get to let any one know more of what i have just let me know and i will get it for you

and is there a market for the old BP boards and stuff that i dont need that i can sell? you never know lol

my name is ryan
my email is dbug454@gmail.com

[dbug454]

here's a pic
http://gallantsolutions.net/dbug/files/bp.JPG

[skunkworks]

I don't think that stepper drive board is high enough voltage/current to run the steppers.

it is only 3.5a at 36v.

sam

[dbug454]

ya i thought i would have to make a stepper drive board or buy one

i was wondering about that is that board that i got a driver and a breakout board? or do i even know what im talking about? lol i was thinking i find some transistors and make a board for the driver side. but as i said im new to this lol

[dbug454]

i also have this: Stepper Motor Driver 5 Axis Interface Board adapter CNC (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=280581835370&si=BfreLRYtwMHztPQCUv9m3o5g4hU%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT)

[John Stevenson]

Those boards are junk, set fire to it now to save it doing it later.

You need three of these.

http://www.kelinginc.net/KLDriver.html

second one down.

A 50 v AC transformer that once rectified and smoothed gives you 70v DC about 500 to 600 Va rating.

A decent breakout board.

http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=46

This one can also control the spindle if you drive it via a VFD

[macona]

The driver you got is not going to do it.

I like the boards from PMDX.com. Good quality. Check out CNCZone. You are not the first to retrofit using the original steppers and you can see there what others have done.

[dbug454]

so i can't use the Stepper Motor Driver KL-8078 on my breakout board because its half breakout board and half stepper driver? and win you say "Those boards are junk, set fire" to them lol you mean the BP boards? or the breakout boards that i got off of ebay or both? lol you never know lol

i was planing on getting Stepper Motor Driver that works with the BP steppers and use it with my breakout board. and i was going to do VFD


Inside my steppers it says P/n 026744 this is alternate motor for o25805
026750
don't know if that helps from what i have seen they are not all the same?

[macona]

What John means is your driver board is garbage and so is the breakout. You get what you pay for.

The breakout might be OK. Dont know. Looks like a pretty generic buffered board.

Dont know about the motors, well other than they are pretty much junk compared to modern steppers.

[dbug454]

ya thats what i was thinking. lol
so whats a good setup on PMDX.com?
thanks for the info

[dbug454]

so just putting this out there if i got to get new breakout and 3 drivers, is there a way i can use the original transformers (i guessing i will have to modify them lol) and get new steppers and sell the old ones to save money? right now this is a hobby mill what size steppers do i need? :)

and do i need to change the gearing? on the new steppers or can i use the old gear?
and every one thats used the BP Steppers how do you fill about them? do they do the job good?
thanks!!!

[panchula]

I have a Boss 5 I retrofitted. I kept the original steppers, wired them in series configuration. I have two Sigmas on the X & Y, and a Superior on the Z. The Boss 5 and earlier run at a 1:1 ratio. Boss 6 and up (until they switched to servos) use a 2:1 ratio. I'm driving the steppers with Gecko 203V's. CNC4PC's C11G breakout board interfaces between the PC and the Gecko's. Power is supplied by an Antek 48V toroidal transformer. Downstream from the Antek is a PMDX 135-8020 power board which provides rectification, filtering and back emf suppression. I snagged a 24v power supply off eBay to provide voltage for the 24V coils on the motor contactors I use for switching power to the Antec and other relays. The spindle motor is powered by a TB Woods SE-1 VDF. Other than a motor disconnect on the incoming 220V single phase, that's about it.
For the moment -- I have left room for a 4th Gecko and a second breakout board...

-Mike

[macona]

Good luck selling the old steppers.

I believe they are standard nema 42 mount. But I recall something amiss on the shafts. You probably want to gear them down a bit too. The stock steppers worked out to .001" per step and you really want more resolution that that. Microstepping/half stepping do not increase resolution, they increase the smoothness of the motor at the expense of torque.

Two guys here are doing it the right way and ditching the steppers and installing servos. There is a reason commercial machines dont use steppers, they suck. You go from a boss moving 60ipm rapid to 300-400. Even for hobby stuff like I do it is really nice. A good variable flute 1/2" aluminum carbide endmill will be very happy running 60-80ipm.

[dbug454]

whats a good VFD that you can use with a Breakout Board? what do i need to look for i have never mess with a VDF so far

[Black Forest]

I am surprised John didn't tell you to set fire to the whole Bridgeport!

[dbug454]

haha i cant do that i just got the thing lol

[macona]

Cast iron does not burn, well, not without an excess of oxygen.

I currently have a Cerus VFD in my machine currently, actually a relabeled LG. Flux Vector. Had a Altivar in it before. Both are good drives. Replaced the Altivar since it was a 2hp drive on a 3hp motor.

I recommend Flux Vector drives. They have better low end torque than cheap v/hz drives.

[dbug454]

good to know thanks :)

i was hoping some of you may know the specs on the original transformers that's with the BP so i know what i got to work with here's some pics of them
so far i cant find any info on them.

http://gallantsolutions.net/dbug/files/BP-cnc/DSC_4943.JPG

http://gallantsolutions.net/dbug/files/BP-cnc/DSC_4988.JPG

http://gallantsolutions.net/dbug/files/BP-cnc/DSC_4990.JPG

[sdeering]

PM sent.

Stephen

[John Stevenson]

I am surprised John didn't tell you to set fire to the whole Bridgeport!

No they are very good machines. Main problem with them, and this is good for HSM guys is the originals electronics were crap, most were crap at this time but the BOSS was the worst of the lot. So what happened is loads were sold to schools and colleges and after a short while went bang and they never got fixed, just stood in a corner somewhere as a cup holder.

However the iron is good, chrome slides, pressure oiling decent ballscrews and the head design was to die for IF they had the fixed head as this one does.

Some had had the manual nod and tilt head fitted, why on earth you would want to nod and tilt a CNC I don't know and these are also crap.

The fixed head is locked into tram so it can't move and the ballscrew is around the quill so it pushes down equally, no trying to tilt and jam as on the CNC converted manual nod and tilt licorice head.

With the advent of modern stepper drives these are now getting a new lease of life.
I have done either 5 or 6 and still have one half done but I have gutted them and fitted everything in new except for the motors.

The motors are standard M112 superior or Sigma motors with a heat sink pressed on because the Boss drivers were so bad they just got hot. These can be used again depending on hows buying and paying, new motors are better but they will work, I run them in parallel with the leadshine drives, flat out, 8 microsteps.
Don't try this with a gecko drive it will fry it, don't ask, 12 dead drives are an embarrassment :D

This machine is borderline between using steppers and servo's.
Servo's are better, more costlier and you can't direct drive them like the steppers so you have to modify the drives.
Steppers are good in that you can get a dead machine up and running quite cheaply and are easier to fault find and are good for a first timer to get his feet wet.

Macona won't agree with me on this :D but he's a very knowledgeable guy who is very, very servo savvy and doesn't see the limitations because of his knowledge and this is said in the nicest way.

[dbug454]

thanks good to hear! so what do you do for a transformer? ware do you buy yours? is the transformer in it worth using with the bp steppers?

[John Stevenson]

Can't help you on the Bridgy transformers as I just rip everything out.

I was fortunate to get some 50 volt toroids a while ago when the local Plessey telecommunications shut down, don't know what Va they are but they are really over kill.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stevenson.engineers/lsteve/files/hob%20indexer6.jpg

That cap is a full sized one so the tranny is about 12" across and the cables connect to it with nuts and bolts.!

[macona]

Servo's are better, more costlier and you can't direct drive them like the steppers so you have to modify the drives.
S

I dont understand. Cant drive directly? Modify the drives?

[John Stevenson]

On a lot of the stepper driven machines the steppers go straight on the end of the leadscrew - direct drive.

However to get servo's to run correctly they have to run at speed so servo machines have a reduction gearing usually 3:1 [ roughly ] onto the screw.

Unfortunately on these early BOSS machines they are all belt driven on the axis but it's hard to change the ratio, you need large pulley on the screw and small on the motor.

Look at the pic's of the machine posted, Y is OK [ looks like motor is missing / removed ] as loads of room in fresh air.

Z isn't as great as you can't go any bigger on the quill gear.

X is even worse as it's a driven nut under the table and written in stone. If you look at later BOSS machines that are servo driven they drive the X from the end of the table.

There are some of these machines that are servo driven so it can be done but not as easy as steppers.

I don't want this thread to degenerate into an argument on servo's and steppers, it's not about that.

Servo's definitely are better no doubt about that but for a first case where the owner has the motors and is probably financially challenged, read skint :D , steppers are the cheaper option and if setup correctly can do very good work.

Remember that much of the Appollo / moon mission work would have been done on these machines which were current at the time.

[j king]

I did this a couple years ago and bought what John told me to get. It all worked fine. Have a couple things to get set right on configuration to get the e stop to work and control the ac drive. I am never home long enough to get back into it.its a shame...I replaced everything except limit switches... I even replaced the wiring so it had shielded wires.Yes I over did it. lol!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/ikimjing/my%20stuff/cncmillpics002.jpg

See how much smaller the new steppers are but have more power and use less electricity.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/ikimjing/my%20stuff/cncmillpics005.jpg

[macona]

On a lot of the stepper driven machines the steppers go straight on the end of the leadscrew - direct drive.

However to get servo's to run correctly they have to run at speed so servo machines have a reduction gearing usually 3:1 [ roughly ] onto the screw.

Unfortunately on these early BOSS machines they are all belt driven on the axis but it's hard to change the ratio, you need large pulley on the screw and small on the motor.



If you are having to belt down your servos you are picking the wrong servos. My Supermax came from the factory with servos, belt driven, but 1:1, my Hercus, belt driven servos, 1:1, my friends Milltronics VMC, servo, 1:1 direct coupled.

In fact direct coupling servos is preferred, especially with newer drives as it gives a better response time and helps with inertia mismatch and tuning.

Didnt the boss's come out in the 70's? If anything was used by nasa for the moon shots it probably would have been Cincinnati machines or Moog Hydra-points.

[dbug454]

j king your BP looks good!!

any one know how to tell what BOSS machine i have? all i see on it is textron
any one know ware to find the manuals for it?

[dbug454]

still have a ways to go. but did get some done lol

i have look at servo's and they are awesome! but i think they are out of my league for now. :(

i think im going to do steppers and if i get 3 of the Stepper Motor Driver KL-8078
and use my old steppers for now can i use the drivers on the new steppers if i upgrade later? im gessing yes?

http://gallantsolutions.net/dbug/files/BP-cnc/DSC_4992.JPG