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View Full Version : So how do I hold a 1" double end endmill



Buckshot
01-30-2011, 03:51 AM
Thought I was really kewl obtaining 2 new Hanita 1" 4 fl CC double end, endmills for my Bridgeport clone mill with R8 collets. I failed to recall all the endmill holders I've seen usually won't handle DE endmills over 3/4" or so. I have R8 collets by 32nds but no 1" and those approching 1" won't handle DE endmills so I'm going to assume a 1" R8 also isn't going to accomodate it. My ER40 collet chuck won't allow it either. While I only paid $34 inc shipping for the 2 of'em, I'd kinda like to be able to use them when the need arises.

Any obvious means I'm overlooking?

Rick

dian
01-30-2011, 04:56 AM
disregard. didnt notice double ended.

macona
01-30-2011, 05:22 AM
Abrasive saw, cut them in half.

RobbieKnobbie
01-30-2011, 05:36 AM
A 1" end mill is a bit much for a Bridgeport/BP clone to handle to begin with.

If you're dead set on using it though, you can get a 1" tool holder from most any one, Enco, CDCO, McMaster, etc. I don't think they'll swallow a DE mill though, so like Macona said, cut it in half.

beanbag
01-30-2011, 05:38 AM
I would sell the end mills. You aren't going to be able to hold them in any way that is very rigid.

Bill Pace
01-30-2011, 09:40 AM
A few years ago WTTools was closing out a bunch of EMs and I picked up about a dozen 7/8" to 1 1/8" doubles for less than $10 each (wish i'd a got another dozen:mad:) As you say, they wont fit. I have the ER40 set which goes to 1 1/8, so I took my $20 Hf die grinder with a 3" 32nd cut-off wheel and cut them in half - problem solved. Those things are great for dressing the ends of plate on that last pass.

Willy
01-30-2011, 09:53 AM
You may have to fabricate your own end mill holder.
Not sure how rigid the setup will be though as it will tend to get long rather quickly. This combined with a 1" end mill in an R-8 holder and you will probably be limited to light cuts.

If the end mill is sufficiently long though you can get away with cutting it in half with an abrasive saw.
However most of the double end mills of this size that I've seen are much too short to permit this and still have sufficient length to properly secure the end mill.

loose nut
01-30-2011, 12:27 PM
A few years ago WTTools was closing out a bunch of EMs and I picked up about a dozen 7/8" to 1 1/8" doubles for less than $10 each (wish i'd a got another dozen:mad:) .

You got robbed, I picked up some from them (Double ended 1", 15/16" etc.) for less then 2 bucks each. Cut them in half and your good.

If there is anyone near the Detroit Wholesale tools, I was there a couple of weeks ago and they had large diam., around 1", endmills (and lots of other cheap goodies) in the close out bin at the back of the showroom for a couple of bucks a pound. If you can use odd sizes, 15/16 or 11/32 etc instead of the standard ones, 1" or 3/4", they frequently sell them a lot cheaper.

PixMan
01-30-2011, 01:21 PM
I would sell the end mills. You aren't going to be able to hold them in any way that is very rigid.

I dunno about that. I'd cut them in half and use them. Brandy new for $8.50 and end ain't bad at all.

My dad's Bridgeport is only a 1HP motor, but we manage to use the ones here on the left. The larger one is 1-1/4", the other a 1". We don't bury them in anything at full width, but the rigidity of the diameter when used for milling with a light cut along the long edge is no problem at all.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/kenm10759/Dads%20shop/IMG_0742-r.jpg

Willy
01-30-2011, 01:34 PM
Yeah, not sure of the length you have, but as long as they aren't short in the center like these, cutting them is the easiest way.
Not much to hold onto by the time these have had an abrasive wheel take a cut out of the center.


http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j31/250willy/0e850ce2.jpg

JoeCB
01-30-2011, 02:14 PM
loose nut.... where is Detroit Wholesale Tool located? I thought that I knew about all the tool goodie stores around Detroit!!! not been to that one

Joe B

J Tiers
01-30-2011, 03:25 PM
How long ARE they?

I can't go above about 0.625, but they fit a weldon-type holder. "Swallows them whole"

Alistair Hosie
01-30-2011, 04:44 PM
Wow thanks for bringing those to my attention.I had never considdered the holding problems for these .Seems obvious when you stop to think about it.Educational post.Alistair

beanbag
01-30-2011, 05:35 PM
You are limited to only fairly light cuts, so what's the point? If you want to do light facing cuts, you can get a face mill, and if you want to do light profile cuts, you can get even a (single ended) 3/4 end mill, and it will be mounted way more rigidly.

PixMan
01-31-2011, 10:32 AM
Light cuts, yes, but long edge cuts. For example, we had some 2-1/2" square x 12" long aluminum to bring to length. It was far easier to take a couple of light cuts on each end using the long edge of the 1-1/4" milling cutter than it was to mount up the tall angle iron, clamp the parts to it, drop the knee of the machine and clean the ends off with a face mill.

We now have a beautifully expensive 3-flute 3/4" Cleveland Powered Metal "for aluminum" end mill with 3" length-of-cut (a gift from a friend) but I don't know for sure that it will be any more rigid than that 1-1/4 chunk of steel.

Ian B
01-31-2011, 10:48 AM
Pixman,

That black 8 tooth circular cutter in the middle of your photo - is that a slitting saw that uses the spring-fit parting off blade tips?

Ian

hareng
01-31-2011, 01:02 PM
How longs the flutes?

BadDog
01-31-2011, 01:52 PM
I got some brand new still in the packaging 1" name brand (don't recall now) carbide single end EMs for almost nothing at a surplus store. I knew my 2J wouldn't handle them effectively, but I also knew a guy ran a commercial job shop with a big 50 taper mill. So with only a few dollars to loose, I bought them and took them by to see if he could use them, and he could. He's a friend and I would have given them to him, but he swapped me a dozen or so brand new solid carbide EMs from 1/2" to 1/4". You might want to check into something similar.

loose nut
01-31-2011, 07:08 PM
loose nut.... where is Detroit Wholesale Tool located? I thought that I knew about all the tool goodie stores around Detroit!!! not been to that one

Joe B

12155 Stephens Blvd. (9 1/2 mile rd.) Warren, East of Hoover a couple of blocks, on the left side. You can get to it off of Grosbeck but it is easy to miss the turn on to Stephens Blvd.

1-800-521-3420

There showroom isn't as flashy as Production tool but the prices are usually better, they don't always have what you want in stock though but that seems to more common with a lot of tool suppliers anymore.

P.S. I was also in Production tool and they are displaying a lot more hobby grade machines and less pro stuff. Sign of the times. Their prices are lower then they used to be, I picked up a B & S Best test indicator on sale for $137.00, about $70.00 off.

PixMan
01-31-2011, 09:26 PM
Pixman,

That black 8 tooth circular cutter in the middle of your photo - is that a slitting saw that uses the spring-fit parting off blade tips?

Ian

Yup. And it works FANTASTIC.

Or should I say, it did when I used it on a CNC machine. Since I haven't yet sprung for a 1-1/2" stub arbor in the R8 shank, I haven't been able (nor needed to) run it on the Bridgeport.

When I did use it, I run it at it's rated max of 640 rpm in slotting some 1045 steel with the .204" wide inserts. The slots were .875" deep x 39" long, and you should have seen how nice the chips flew off at the 25ipm feed rate. When the 24 cuts were done, the inserts and the cutter both looked as though they'd never touched metal. The company I was working for at the time said it was a one-time job and that the cutter (a Valenite V350 A 20 40 C 08) had paid for itself in the first 6 cuts. They offered it to me for $100 with the inserts (I have 12 extras) so I bought it instantly.

I don't know if I'll ever use it, but for what I got into it and what I KNOW it can do, I'll sit on it. It's my understanding that Valenite (now Walter) doesn't sell them anymore, but its the same cutter as a Sandvik Coromant A330.20-101050-250 and takes Coromant N151.2 or Walter Valenite VSG N 50 size inserts that are both still available.

Why do you ask? ;)

Ian B
02-01-2011, 02:35 AM
Pixman,

It's just that I have one of the 32mm high Sandvik spring-fit parting off blades, and it's probably the most wonderful lathe tool taht I ever bought - it takes a 4mm wide tip, and just parts off anything I throw at it - 4" round steel bar's a doddle.

I was just wondering if these tips worked as well in a milling application, and how the tip mounting system stands up to repeated intermittent cuts. It looks like a brilliant piece of kit.

All of my slitting saws are HSS - I'll keep my eyes open for one of these.

Ian

PixMan
02-01-2011, 08:19 AM
I also have the parting blades. In the US, they are available as Sandvik N151.2 or as Walter Valenite VSG system. I have the Valenite-branded VG101 21 25, a 26mm (1") tall blade in the thinner width, so it takes inserts from 2.5mm up to 3.4mm (.0984" to .133") from either Valenite or Sandvik.

These cutoff blades are simply brilliant! One caution in using the same type inserts in both the lathe tool and the slotting saw is the difference of cut. In the milling application it's quite an interrupted cut and completely different cutting action. For the Walter Valenite saw, I have their "SC" chipbreaker inserts in grade 5815, which is actually a harder, more wear-resistant grooving grade. They also have the 5845 that is a decidedly milling-oriented tough, impact-resistant grade.

I hadn't looked into the Sandvik Coromant offerings for inserts for the slotting saw because I don't yet use it at the home shop. ;) I have some Coromant inserts for the parting blades though, and they work great.

gary350
02-01-2011, 10:06 AM
You can buy special holders for large end mills. It is best to buy an end mill suited to fit your milling machine. If you must have a large end mill use a larger machine.

PixMan
02-02-2011, 07:40 AM
If you must have a large end mill use a larger machine.

Of course that's the best thing the do, but usually impractical and almost always impossible.

As "Home Shop Machinists" we are frequently finding ways to do work that should be far beyond the capacity of our machines. Some of us have the money to buy bigger machines but no space to put them. I have a bit of the opposite problem. I could make room, but fundzerlow.;)

Doozer
02-02-2011, 08:53 AM
As to holding a large end mill....
If you have an R-8 spindle, you can get a 7/8" collet. A bit thin walled, but they exist. It seems obvious, but you can buy end mills with reduced shanks. I have an M-head on a mill that takes 1/2" shank cutters max, and I bought a collection of end mills up to 1-1/8" with 1/2" shanks. For the R-8 guys, you can buy up to a 2" end mill with a 3/4" shank pretty easily. MSC# 01710961 $50. If you find used or a super deal on tooling that is too big for your mill, I would just pass. Remember, a deal is only a deal if you can use it.

--Doozer

spope14
02-02-2011, 10:43 AM
I use the 1" end mills (2 and 4 flute) for face offs of say 7/8 wide stock (cutting the ends facing up) or for finishing deep wall set-ups on the walls without stepping or minor stepping marks. Speed and feed become important, as does listening to and feeling the cut. Use an end mill holder as shown in the pics above.