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Magnum164
02-06-2011, 12:14 PM
I have been tapping some 3.5Mmm threads on a few parts, quantities of about 10-20 each. Using the tapping head in my CNC machine works for about 2-3 holes and even after placing lubricant in each hole it never fails, the head will stall and will pull the part out of the lathe and when it does snaps the tap.

So after wasting most my profit on new taps:) I am thinking about adding a tapping machine to do these smaller threads so I can keep an eye on whats going on. Plus it gives me the advantage of using my CNC machine for making other parts while I am tapping. Keeping in mind, I am tapping side holes in the parts so will eliminate one step on the CNC machine.


Anyone have any suggestions on a hand tapping machine that can work with smaller size taps?

squirrel
02-06-2011, 12:22 PM
Tapping is pretty touchy at that size, with a digital spindle drive I can rigid tap 4-40 all day long with out any problems. Can you post a pic of your tapping set up and type of control you are using along with feed and speed data, so we can help you better.

Magnum164
02-06-2011, 12:33 PM
Tapping is pretty touchy at that size, with a digital spindle drive I can rigid tap 4-40 all day long with out any problems. Can you post a pic of your tapping set up and type of control you are using along with feed and speed data, so we can help you better.

I appreciate the help, but at the moment I am looking for a hand tapping machine. For small quantities I am not seeing the advantage of spending the time writing g-code when I would have to go back and finish blind holes anyway. Just seems better to drill the hole and tap on a separate machine for now.

squirrel
02-06-2011, 02:07 PM
Okay, just buy a tapmatic or procunier tapping head, they self reverse and will work perfectly in a drill press. An old Burgmiester tapping machine might be nice but they are pretty hard to find now days.

John Stevenson
02-06-2011, 02:14 PM
I have one of these.

http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/tappinghead1.jpg

Import head, home made frame.
The import frame was a bit cheesy and cost a lot for what it was.

I do M3 blind holes in alloy and ali-bronze, just power it down until it stalls out then reverse it.

At M3 and M3.5 you will probably have more success with roll form taps, far stronger.

Magnum164
02-06-2011, 02:25 PM
Okay, just buy a tapmatic or procunier tapping head, they self reverse and will work perfectly in a drill press. An old Burgmiester tapping machine might be nice but they are pretty hard to find now days.

Already have a self reversing head, not sure of brand. Maybe that is the key is to use it in a drill press instead.

Magnum164
02-06-2011, 02:26 PM
I have one of these.

http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/tappinghead1.jpg

Import head, home made frame.
The import frame was a bit cheesy and cost a lot for what it was.

I do M3 blind holes in alloy and ali-bronze, just power it down until it stalls out then reverse it.

At M3 and M3.5 you will probably have more success with roll form taps, far stronger.

That is really what I love to have, perhaps long term as I need something to finish parts on now and commercial versions are well over $2K..

What drive head are you using on that?

crrmeyer
02-06-2011, 02:32 PM
Anyone have any suggestions on a hand tapping machine that can work with smaller size taps?

The Bauer Precision Hand Tapper is pretty nice. I see it in some of the shops in the area. They work very well on small taps.

http://www.bauerprecision.com/tapper.htm

John Stevenson
02-06-2011, 02:41 PM
Bought just the air head and collets from these people.

http://www.machine-tapping.co.uk/index.php?target=categories&category_id=3

I think they charged me 350 for everything but at that time the complete machines were a bit more expensive, that's why i made my own frame.

Been a godsend, I should have bought / built one years ago.

Magnum164
02-06-2011, 02:55 PM
Bought just the air head and collets from these people.

http://www.machine-tapping.co.uk/index.php?target=categories&category_id=3

I think they charged me 350 for everything but at that time the complete machines were a bit more expensive, that's why i made my own frame.

Been a godsend, I should have bought / built one years ago.


AHh! They make the tapping head I have I bet. That is actually what I am looking for and for the price, might be worth buying and shipping to the states. At the price of some of the ones they have well worth buying.. But dang it.. Out of stock on most!

John Stevenson
02-06-2011, 03:00 PM
They import them from China, sorry don't know who but I'm wondering if anyone in the US also brings these in ?

Failing that an email or phone call to the two young lads who run this firm might help as regards when they are back in or if they have any heads.

I had to ask, they never listed a separate head but they are helpful guys.

Magnum164
02-06-2011, 06:51 PM
They import them from China, sorry don't know who but I'm wondering if anyone in the US also brings these in ?

Failing that an email or phone call to the two young lads who run this firm might help as regards when they are back in or if they have any heads.

I had to ask, they never listed a separate head but they are helpful guys.


After looking at this for a bit, would be nice to have a cordless or batt operated version instead of air. I finished a couple of parts by turning the clutch down on my cordless drill and it worked fine.

RobbieKnobbie
02-06-2011, 07:09 PM
I've used Speedycut tapping heads a bunch of times, both as second ops machines and also in automation projects. Nice mechines if you're doing a whole bunch of the same pitch threads. You have to change a set of gears on the side of the head to switch pitches - but that only takes a minute or two if you have all your tooling properly staged on shadowboards or dedicated storage.

I was told that they are re-badged Brother machines, but I've never looked into that to say if its true or not.

A little pricey, but dead reliable.


Speedycut bench models (http://www.speedycut.com/bench.htm)

J. R. Williams
02-06-2011, 08:33 PM
I have a "Jet J10" tapping machine that is belt driven and has two cone friction clutches that change the direction. The up and down is similar to a normal drill press. I talked a welding fab shop owner out it it when two if his employees was trying to hold a large drill bit in the rubber-flex chuck and had the chuck body held in place on the spindle with a section of welding rod. After re-cutting the shaft end to hold the chuck and installing a new belt, it does a fine job. I have not seen any listed for sale or even by Jet.
JRW

John Stevenson
02-06-2011, 08:40 PM
After looking at this for a bit, would be nice to have a cordless or batt operated version instead of air. I finished a couple of parts by turning the clutch down on my cordless drill and it worked fine.

I was seriously looking at using a motor cycle starter motor modified with bearings driving one of those Procurner type heads at first, I even bought a nearly new head off Ebay.

Then I saw these air operated ones at a show and talked the guys into selling me just the head. I resold the other tapping head later but I must admit an electric one would be nice for the odd jobs where you don't need to run a compressor as they are a bit thirsty on air.

form_change
02-06-2011, 10:23 PM
John, a question for you on the arm. For something like that I would imagine that it becomes very important to make sure the tapping head spindle is square to the surface that the item being tapped is on. How did you ensure this was so?
I was tapping on the weekend and despite my best efforts at keeping the tap square found that the installed stud (around 30mm proud) was still a paper thickness off square, which was enough to throw things out. An arm like that with a manual tapping arrangement would suit my purposes but I'd be worried that it would not be giving me a square thread.
(I have the same concerns about all the plans for 'sensitive tapping heads' that are available in plan form)

Michael

Magnum164
02-06-2011, 10:48 PM
I was seriously looking at using a motor cycle starter motor modified with bearings driving one of those Procurner type heads at first, I even bought a nearly new head off Ebay.

Then I saw these air operated ones at a show and talked the guys into selling me just the head. I resold the other tapping head later but I must admit an electric one would be nice for the odd jobs where you don't need to run a compressor as they are a bit thirsty on air.


Yea, I even went and looked at HF for a drill press and decided against it. Just don't have much room left for a drill press right now. I sent an email asking about the price of just a motor, my air compressor is small but might still run one.

John Stevenson
02-07-2011, 04:18 AM
Michael, Where the air head fits into the square block, that block is secured to the head by two screws the holes of which which are slightly over size to allow the square base to be 'trammed' like a mill head using a square on the tap.

camdigger
02-07-2011, 07:39 AM
FWIW, I saw an air tapper setup like John S's at Thomas Skinner & Son in Calgary. Skinner handles SOWA and Yamawa taps among a few select imports. As I recall, the machine was set up with Yamawa 5/8"UNF spiral flute taps. A call to their main # might yeild a lead.

camdigger
02-07-2011, 07:39 AM
FWIW, I saw an air tapper setup like John S's at Thomas Skinner & Son in Calgary. Skinner handles SOWA and Yamawa taps among a few select imports. As I recall, the machine was set up with Yamawa 5/8"UNF spiral flute taps. A call to their main # might yeild a lead.

rowbare
02-07-2011, 02:19 PM
Magnum,

Bob Warfield had a few articles on this a while back starring John's tapping arm among others: http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCTappingArm.htm

I have tried the butterfly impact wrench with the Irwin tap holder. It worked fairly well. I was tapping blind holes so would start them with that and finish them with a handle. I am sure that by adjusting the regulator I could have let them bottom without damage but I only had the one forming tap and not too many holes to do so used the handle.

bob

Magnum164
02-07-2011, 05:19 PM
Magnum,

Bob Warfield had a few articles on this a while back starring John's tapping arm among others: http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCTappingArm.htm

I have tried the butterfly impact wrench with the Irwin tap holder. It worked fairly well. I was tapping blind holes so would start them with that and finish them with a handle. I am sure that by adjusting the regulator I could have let them bottom without damage but I only had the one forming tap and not too many holes to do so used the handle.

bob

Hey Bob,

Have read that article several times. But when dealing with small M3 taps, the slightest angle off and your tap is broke. I like the idea of the butterfly wrench but some sort of clutch mechanism is almost imperative I think for that size.

For this I am willing to pay a little more to have the arm pre-made and ready to go. I have the funds and think I will simply order one as they have them in stock now.

oldtiffie
04-21-2016, 03:20 AM
http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/tappinghead1.jpg

Just a couple of things as I see it both with the pantograph style arm on both John Stevenson's manual tapping head and Black Forest's hydraulically-driven tapping/drilling head/s.

When the arm is horizontal there is no or very little issue with the tapping head moving toward/away from centre of the vertical (column).

As the head moves up/down for tapping it will move inward/toward and/or outward/away from the column as it moves through its vertical arc.

If say the arm movement is "split" between above and below the arm of the tapping head horizontal plane the "off-set" will be minimised and perhaps end up as minimal such that it can be neglected.

There is no issue with the tapping head remaining truly vertical through-out - as it does/will.

I have a Sieg Super X3 (SX3) which has a "tapping" function (i.e. spindle reversal) operated from the hand-wheel ("spokes"). The spindle has an excellent adjustment speed driven by a high torque reversible brushless DC motor.

But I do prefer to use a good tapping head in the Sieg SX3 or a pedestal drill with a good torque-adjustable tapping head with a reversing spindle.

There is a lot more available "head-room" with a pedestal drill as the table can be readily moved up and down on the drill column.

The taps and the lubricant/cutting oil for them are most important.

Using blunt or improper taps are a definite "no-no" here.

If there is a doubt about any of those set-up I simply revert to "hand" tapping where I have a much better "feel" for the tapping process.

Black Forest
04-21-2016, 07:17 AM
http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/tappinghead1.jpg

Just a couple of things as I see it both with the pantograph style arm on both John Stevenson's manual tapping head and Black Forest's hydraulically-driven tapping/drilling head/s.

When the arm is horizontal there is no or very little issue with the tapping head moving toward/away from centre of the vertical (column).

As the head moves up/down for tapping it will move inward/toward and/or outward/away from the column as it moves through its vertical arc.

If say the arm movement is "split" between above and below the arm of the tapping head horizontal plane the "off-set" will be minimised and perhaps end up as minimal such that it can be neglected.

There is no issue with the tapping head remaining truly vertical through-out - as it does/will.

I have a Sieg Super X3 (SX3) which has a "tapping" function (i.e. spindle reversal) operated from the hand-wheel ("spokes"). The spindle has an excellent adjustment speed driven by a high torque reversible brushless DC motor.

But I do prefer to use a good tapping head in the Sieg SX3 or a pedestal drill with a good torque-adjustable tapping head with a reversing spindle.

There is a lot more available "head-room" with a pedestal drill as the table can be readily moved up and down on the drill column.

The taps and the lubricant/cutting oil for them are most important.

Using blunt or improper taps are a definite "no-no" here.

If there is a doubt about any of those set-up I simply revert to "hand" tapping where I have a much better "feel" for the tapping process.

What you are worrying about is not a factor on my swing arm style unit. The rough height adjustment is made and then the drilling or tapping is done with the quill as on a drill press.

oldtiffie
04-21-2016, 07:11 PM
Thanks BF.

My post was by way of comment and observation only and definitely not as criticism and it seems that you took it that way which I really do appreciate.

That tapping machine of yours is brilliant and covers a lots of needs.

I took notice of your reply and it does seem to me that if a rack and pinion quill that moved vertically (or any other angle) - as on a drill press quill up-down control - would assist considerably and would eliminate/counter/negate the matter I spoke of.