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SBLCHET
02-10-2011, 03:59 PM
I just bought some HSS T-15 inserts to try on both my SBL 9 inch and heavy 10. Bought TPG 221/222, DCMT and VCMT. So far I have tried them all on Aluminum, Brass, 12L14, Cr, Delrin and Stainless Steel (gun barrel) both turning and facing. And have on the SB Heavy 10 taken cuts as light as .00025 and can measure it on all the above workpeice's. I use carbide insert's for all roughing in cut's Then just remove the carbide insert and put in the HSS insert then sneak up on the last couple thousands of the finish cut. Have not gotten a smoother or prettier finish. Just as good as any HSS tool bit that has been hand ground on a good bench grinder. I found them doing a Google search for HSS inserts. Very happy and pleased with them and glad I found HSS inserts.

Chet

Black_Moons
02-10-2011, 04:14 PM
Intresting first post.. And welcome to the board!
I rather like 'Product review' posts myself, So while this could of been a little spamy looking if you posted the company name/url (Even though most of us know where you likey got the HSS inserts), You did it very nicely. (Moreso because it is your first post, After a few 100, I really don't mind people ranting on how good a company/product is, with urls right to sales sites, Because its unlikey that promoting those products is thier only goal here)

Did you have any problem with work hardening on light cuts on the stainless? What alloy of stainless was it?

One thing to note is you'll likey wanna dial back RPM's some too, Swaping inserts is an intresting way to keep your tool dialed in however. One should note that a diffrent nose radius will produce a diffrent tool length however. So you'll want to keep em the same or measure (Calculate?) the diffrence.

mc_n_g
02-10-2011, 04:14 PM
There is only one place that makes tehm that I know and that is Arthur Warner Company in Latrobe, PA http://www.arwarnerco.com/.
They have been discussed here numerous times. You can search the board for the threads. Mike Warner from Arhtur Warner Company is a member on the boards.
There are mulitple companies that sell they inserts but ultimately they come from Arthur Warner.
I have never had any problems with them. Just a user for about 9 years.

SBLCHET
02-10-2011, 05:01 PM
Thanks Black Moons and I did slow down to slowest spindle speed and feed with light cut's . Used same nose radius but still sneaked up on the final cut to get the fiinsh and diameter I wanted. Yes they have been around for along time but I just found out about them couple weeks ago. And wanted to share my finding's.
Chet

photomankc
02-10-2011, 05:07 PM
I love the threading inserts they make too. Much nicer threads than I get from carbide at low manual speeds. I like the little triangles on external surfaces but on bores I always get a really bad finish from them. Not sure why. In bores I get a better result with ground carbide inserts for AL. They work great in steel too with real shallow cuts.

The HSS inserts mean I can turn Aluminum at the RPM range of my lathe and actually be in the right ballpark of SFM. They are expensive little boogers though.

RobbieKnobbie
02-10-2011, 07:22 PM
I love the threading inserts they make too.... They are expensive little boogers though.

Can you post a link to the threading tooling? (since you have nearly a hundred posts!:D )

Black_Moons
02-10-2011, 07:36 PM
RobbieKnobbie: haha. Okok, Yea its a little antinoob for me to say that, But you do have to admit, someone posting a URL to some sales site for post 1 would look bad.

RobbieKnobbie
02-10-2011, 09:52 PM
I totally agree, I was realy just jokin about the great coincidence that Photomankc was just coming up on 100 posts.

It's all in good fun!

motorworks
02-10-2011, 11:35 PM
Hi
HSS does a nice finish....but I also found that a carbide insert with a 0.5 or o.o nose will do the same. You can usually pick them up on ebay for 2- 3 dollars each
i.e. DCMT 21505 or DCMT 2150 with a nose radius of 0.008" and o.oo4"

just a suggestion
e2die
These are great for getting off that last 0.002" LoL. :)

Jaakko Fagerlund
02-11-2011, 12:32 AM
HSS will get you the nice finish, but you can get it with carbide also, but you just can't use the same bits you use for roughing as they will have different cutting properties. And with carbide your lathe RPM comes short very quickly. For example, to get a nice finish on a mild steel piece like S235 (easily weldable steel) needs around 200-250 m/min of surface speed with carbide.

But then again there is the emery cloth ;) Get's you good surface and those last digits all the time :)

Arthur.Marks
02-11-2011, 01:01 AM
While on topic, I've been confused by their two different threading inserts. one has no top rake--the other has a positive top rake (11) which doesn't produced the correct thread angle if you have a straight-on toolholder. I've never really understood that. If you get the kit, you get one of each.

linky: http://www.arwarnerco.com/warner_products_kits_threading_k18.html
(hope I have enough posts!!! :) )

lakeside53
02-11-2011, 03:02 AM
I have many carbide threading inserts that have significant top rake, and they do produce the correct thead. They all mount on "straight tooling".

It's more to do with the type of material being cut.

rohart
02-11-2011, 08:01 PM
Thanks to the OP. I was asking about HSS inserts at the last show I was at.

I don't know if there's a source on my side of the pond, though.

And welcome. The site is looking good at the moment - fewer OT posts than usual, thank goodness.

But since BM has already had a go at you (via something you were not guilty of) I'll join the party. I encourage you, and all and sundry, to put some small indication of their location in their details. It helps when posters say "Can't buy oojamaflips for love nor money around here". It gives as all better idea of what's going on.

Any post like this, saying "Look what I've just bought" is a bit galling for the Brits, Aussies or those living in Turkey or China, but at least we'll know what the score is.

It's like we live in a country, while you live in a continent.

Bob Pastor
02-14-2011, 08:51 PM
Hi Guys,

Here is a link to a video I made a couple of months ago on the inserts. There are several videos showing them facing and threading also.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKGkkGFsF50

I've been using them for over a year now and they have made my lathe work so much easier. Now I only have to grind specialty forming tools.

Rohart, they will ship inserts accross the pond. I'm bringing some over to a fellow shooter, when I go to Bisley this year.

Bob

rbertalotto
02-14-2011, 09:09 PM
One of these days....you will buy a Diamond Tool Holder and try to understand how you've lived all these years without one.............Simply amazing tool and one of the best tools I've bought in 30 years of home shop machining!

http://www.bay-com.com/product-list.php?DIAMOND_TOOLHOLDER-pg1-cid35.html

Bob Pastor
02-14-2011, 09:15 PM
I bought one this past Fall and it's everything that it's advertised to be. Great tool!

rbertalotto
02-15-2011, 10:51 AM
I bought one this past Fall and it's everything that it's advertised to be. Great tool!

It's like discovering really good beer!

A monkey can sharpen it!
Easy to set up!
Even low powered lathes can run faster and make very smooth cuts!
I've yet to find a fault...........And just ask my wife, I can find a fault in anything......So she says......:D

photomankc
02-15-2011, 11:10 AM
I see someone already posted the link! ;)

I get a better finish with the threading tool that has rake vs the flat top but I have no idea which is proper. The flat top insert left a bit more chatter marks once the cut started getting heavy down deep in the thread. The raked tool leaves a nice smooth surface.

I'm not as sold on the other inserts but they can be handy. I have not noticed much better finish from them than I can get from the ground carbide AL cutting inserts and they are in the same ball-park in price. In fact, on AL, my TCGT and CCGT inserts leave the nicer finish provided you cut a few thous, the HSS inserts do better at trying to shave off less than a thou.

garagemark
02-15-2011, 12:30 PM
OK, so I went to Warner's site. Looks like cool stuff. So if I were to plunge into the HSS insert trap (I still don't grind worth a damn), what would the recommended starting kit be? There are many, but I would want kind of a general purpose "kit" to start with.

I assume I would choose from these kits:

http://www.arwarnerco.com/warner_products_kits_turning.html

But which?

Mark

Bob Pastor
02-15-2011, 12:41 PM
Hi Mark,

If your machine is large enough, go with Kit #9 to start with. It's the 1/2" turning kit. It comes with (5) tool holders and (6) inserts. There isn't a whole lot you can't do with this kit. Kit #18 is the 1/2" threading kit.

Bob

Bob Pastor
02-15-2011, 12:44 PM
I see someone already posted the link! ;)

I get a better finish with the threading tool that has rake vs the flat top but I have no idea which is proper. The flat top insert left a bit more chatter marks once the cut started getting heavy down deep in the thread. The raked tool leaves a nice smooth surface.

I'm not as sold on the other inserts but they can be handy. I have not noticed much better finish from them than I can get from the ground carbide AL cutting inserts and they are in the same ball-park in price. In fact, on AL, my TCGT and CCGT inserts leave the nicer finish provided you cut a few thous, the HSS inserts do better at trying to shave off less than a thou.

Hi Photomankc,

The positive rake insert is best used with Non ferrous metals and the neutral insert works best with ferrous metals.

Bob

J. Randall
02-15-2011, 11:58 PM
I see someone already posted the link! ;)

I get a better finish with the threading tool that has rake vs the flat top but I have no idea which is proper. The flat top insert left a bit more chatter marks once the cut started getting heavy down deep in the thread. The raked tool leaves a nice smooth surface.

I'm not as sold on the other inserts but they can be handy. I have not noticed much better finish from them than I can get from the ground carbide AL cutting inserts and they are in the same ball-park in price. In fact, on AL, my TCGT and CCGT inserts leave the nicer finish provided you cut a few thous, the HSS inserts do better at trying to shave off less than a thou.

On a fine thread that does not have much depth, the raked tool will work. On a coarser thread with more depth, you don't want any rake or you won't have the proper thread form, at least that is the way I have always understood it.
James

Arthur.Marks
02-16-2011, 12:29 AM
James---exactly. Hence my confusion. The rake angle will affect the 60 angle.

Mark K
02-16-2011, 01:28 AM
-cross posted from chaski-

Zero rake is how I was taught, too.

However, with the half-angle compound setover in-feed technique, it appears the tool can accept some positive rake on the left, or leading, edge (left when facing the lathe from the front). This leading (right hand thread) edge is the one that cuts on the full face, as does a form tool, so some amount of rake would help. The trailing edge, with it's small negative rake, cuts by means of the feed, which also reduces the thread form change by generating this flank rather than 'form-tooling' it. Hope that's clear.

G H Thomas has written on this in his "The Model Engineer's Workshop Manual." He recommends no more than 7 degrees of leading edge rake, which should be ground such the leading edge remains untouched. That edge is then still true to form. The trailing edge is perturbed very little.

Mark

J. Randall
02-16-2011, 04:10 AM
I have many carbide threading inserts that have significant top rake, and they do produce the correct thead. They all mount on "straight tooling".

It's more to do with the type of material being cut.

I fail to see where the type of material should make a difference in the thread form, Have you ever stuck the little thread tool grinding gage on one of them and verified that the angle is still 60 degree, or maybe they ground the angle different to compensate for the back rake, and still come out with the proper thread form. Just curious.
James

hssmike
02-16-2011, 05:52 PM
Hello,
I am the manufacturer of the inserts in question and J Randall you are correct, we do take the back rake angle into account when we grind the positive inserts. The insert can be used in any standup holder and not affect the thread form.

For those needing explanation: If you take a Triangle and set it on your desk in front of you with the tip pointing up, both side angles are 30 (60) included). If you then tip the insert away from you without moving your head, the angle changes and you loose the 60 included.

Chet,
Thanks for the review, It's nice to have a happy customer.

garagemark
Give me a call on Tuesday and i'll fix you up. There are a lot of questions I ask before determining which way to direct you.

For those of you that have the Diamond Tool Holder: I think it's a really neat holder and I sell a lot of Tool Bits for them. After having a discussion with Bob Pastor about them, he is having me produce some with radiused edges (running along the length)of the bit. This will give you a consistent radius with each sharpening.

Also I would like to thank those of you that have supported me through my current health issues. I should be up and running 100% within the next couple weeks.

Mike Warner
Arthur R Warner Co.
www.arwarnerco.com
724-539-9229

J. Randall
02-17-2011, 02:27 AM
Thanks Mike, I felt like that had to be the case, but it is good to know for sure, Hope you are back to 100 percent soon.
James

noah katz
02-17-2011, 02:31 PM
If you take a Triangle and set it on your desk in front of you with the tip pointing up, both side angles are 30 (60) included). If you then tip the insert away from you without moving your head, the angle changes and you loose the 60 included.

But if it were a thick triangle and you cut the face at an angle, you would still see the same angles.

Is it because the cutting geometry changes ever so slightly because not all og f the cutting edge is on the same plane?

I wouldn't think it would matter in a static application.

Black_Moons
02-17-2011, 06:39 PM
noah katz: If you tilt the tip of a triangle up triangle, It becomes shorter when viewed from above, but retains the same width.
Hence, its angle 'widens'

As such, any threading tool with a back rake actualy needs to be ground to less then 60 degrees, to end up cutting a 60 degree thread.

noah katz
02-17-2011, 11:51 PM
I thought it was ground at an ange, not tipped.

Black_Moons
02-18-2011, 12:28 AM
It is ground at the angle, but im saying if you just took a normal insert (or triangle) and tiped it, its no longer the right angle.

If you ground your own threading tool with back rake, You need to do some trig to figure out what angle to grind it, And then have some way of verifying that angle like a custom made gauge.

Hence these guys have speciality ground inserts that have the back rake angle, And are ground correctly for it.