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View Full Version : Happy family tool gloat ;)



PixMan
02-22-2011, 10:45 PM
Finally got everything together for a family group photo:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/kenm10759/Dads%20shop/IMG_0988-r.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/kenm10759/Dads%20shop/IMG_0992-r.jpg

From left to right are: Walter 4" octagonal 43 6-insert, Widia-Valenite 3" 45 6-insert, Widia-Valenite 2" 45 4-insert, Iscar 1-1/4" 45 3-insert.

So the long version of a short story. A friend retiring from Valenite gifted me the the two smaller ones over a year ago. Obviously, didn't need any shank/adpater/holder for the little one. I found the Lovejoy 3/4" pilot shell mill adapter on Ebay for $36 (new, right from Lovejoy) for the 2" mill, which until I got the 3", I thought was a 2-1/2" mill. Inserts came with them.

Two months ago, I found the 4" Walter cutter on Ebay and won it for $57, shipped. Brand new, and I found out it's still a current model with a list price of $671(!). The Iscar-ETM 1" pilot R8 adapter was a BIN on Ebay, pricey at $79, but I wanted quality, and no runout. I got the inserts off Ebay for $35. A total runout of .0003" from high to low across the inserts, total investment $171. That's the most expensive one by far, and will probably see the least amount of use. Go figure.

My buddy found the 3" cutter in his garage two weeks ago, gave me that one. I found a new Seco brand R8 shell mill adapter on Ebay, $45 plus $12 for shipping (which I got reimbursed because it came in with some rust spots.) It takes the same SEKN/SEHN43 inserts as the 2" one, so all set there.

What I find ironic is that the Walter cutter, from a German company, is made in USA. The "Valenite" cutters, at the time and American company, were made in Germany. AFAIK, the Iscar was made in Israel.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/kenm10759/Dads%20shop/IMG_0990-r.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/kenm10759/Dads%20shop/IMG_0989-r.jpg

I thought it amazing that the 3 different shell mill mount cutters with 3 different makes of R8 adapters are all assembled to the same gauge length, within .010". Ready for anything now, total investment just $252.

Willy
02-22-2011, 11:05 PM
Good score, congratulations.
Nice family portrait.:)

I know there are those that don't subscribe to the Ebay way of shopping, but out here in the sticks I have about as much chance of finding a good score locally as I have of mowing the lawn in January! Without a 10 hr. road trip I just don't get the opportunity to find good deals.
So yeah good to see I'm not the only one to get lucky once in a while.
My last score was 2 almost new Lovejoy series 229 3" face mills for $50 delivered! As long as you're not in a hurry the deals are still there.

PixMan
02-22-2011, 11:27 PM
Thanks. You did well too, but having gotten two of the same size & type cutter perhaps you should sell one off so you can have a free one. Or, keep both in case one needs a "parts donor"?

Where I live there are deals to be had in places other than Ebay, but I find I have the time to surf around Ebay for bargains. The 4" cutter was that, furshure.

randyc
02-22-2011, 11:50 PM
That's a great looking set of tools. Not many years ago I would have said that some of those large cutters wouldn't work in a HSM-size turret mill but the technology has certainly improved !

My own inventory of similar tooling is limited to this one pitiful sample:

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/randy9944/P1020371.jpg

But it does earn its keep, LOL.

Mark Hockett
02-23-2011, 12:01 AM
I have the 3.5" version of that Walter face mill. I run it at 7500 RPM on aluminum and feed 120 IPM. The cutter gets used almost daily in production and I rotate the inserts about every 9 months. I don't think I would ever try running that on an R8 machine though. I have 15 HP and my spindle load meter is usually up there fairly high.

PixMan
02-23-2011, 12:12 AM
Hi Randy,

Looks like your cutter doesn't get too much abuse. ;) That's good, because TPG inserts don't take well to it.

I haven't had the opportunity to use the two larger ones yet. The 4" with the octagonal inserts is there because it's really only meant to be a finishing cutter to get surfaces between 3" and 4" in one pass at very shallow depths of cut. It is limited to .118" (3mm), and that's what the last "03" of the nomenclature means. I doubt I'd ever peel off more than .050" with any material, given the lousy 1HP of dad's Bridgeport. More likely, passes of .010" just to clean things up.

The 2" one has surprised the heck out of me. The shearing action of the 45 lead angle and the near 20 inclination angle of the inserts results in so little power draw that I've been able to bury the inserts in most materials and still get a decent chipload per tooth. I anticipate the same characteristics for it's 3" big brother.

If you were interested in finding something like those, I could help you as I know quite a bit about the various offerings out there from most of the companies.

Mark,

I have some of the ODHT050408-G88 grade WXN15 inserts coming in for aluminum and other light metals. I have no dellusions about what I can do with an R8 shank and weak spindle, but I do expect nice finishes.

Mark Hockett
02-23-2011, 12:55 AM
Mark,

I have some of the ODHT050408-G88 grade WXN15 inserts coming in for aluminum and other light metals. I have no dellusions about what I can do with an R8 shank and weak spindle, but I do expect nice finishes.

I think mine uses the larger inserts. I'm using ODHT0605ZZN-G88 WK 10 inserts for aluminum,
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c10/mahockett/d43e3957.jpg

It rips and leaves a very nice finish. The finish is so smooth after machining you can wring two pieces together.

PixMan
02-23-2011, 06:35 AM
Nice! You apparently have the newer F4080 cutter. Those have the larger insert you have there and can do a deeper (up to 4mm/.157") depth of cut.

DR
02-23-2011, 08:00 AM
Pix',

Nice assortment of cutters.

I, too, have seen deals on large cutters similar to those. My only caution n buying is to make sure inserts are readily available and preferably interchange among ALL my facemills.

Facemills with orphan inserts will eat you alive in replacement cost.

PixMan
02-23-2011, 08:26 AM
The ones that will get the most use will be the 3 smaller ones, and all of those take ANSI/ISO standard inserts. The larger Widia-Valenite mills take SEHN/SEKN43 (or in ISO, SEHN/SEKN 1204) size inserts. The smallest Iscar one takes SEHN/SEKN42 (or SEHN/SEKN 1203) size inserts. And I have a few if each thickness:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/kenm10759/Dads%20shop/IMG_0742-r.jpg

The photo is a little out-of-date. I've since added a couple more boxes for cheap via Ebay. Also, the 2" cutter that I've had and used quite a bit over the last year & a half has had the inserts indexed ONCE in all that time. Not going through many inserts because I'm doing pretty good at using the proper speeds and feeds with them.

Doozer
02-23-2011, 09:54 AM
That sure is a lot of stick-out with those R-8 adaters. I would try and take 2" out of them if possible. Just like those gay 22" spoke wheels they put on cars. Just because they will bolt up, does not mean they were made to be put on there.

--Doozer

PixMan
02-23-2011, 10:07 AM
I don't know where I'd take even 1 inch off of them. They're quite hard, quality pieces. And, they really don't stick out ask that bad. It's not like I can bury the inserts in a heavy cut with only 1HP on hand. :)

Just for cleaning up wide surfaces in one pass at light depths of cut. The main reason for collecting them is not to be doing lots of material removal on the low HP machine, but to be prepared with tooling for the day when a10 or 15 HP CNC machine arrives.

Ken_Shea
02-23-2011, 10:58 AM
Well, I haven't had any good scores lately so am having to enjoy those of others, that 4" puppy would sure grab my attention and one that I would like have.

Nice!

Doozer
02-23-2011, 11:22 AM
What really kills you on a Bridgeport is the spindle spline lash. Lots of clatter untill the cutter fully seats. And chatter can also be amplified when the aluminum belt housing starts to act as a loudspeaker. I guess Sir John will chime in and add to the shortcommings of BPs. I do like the high positive rake of those inserts. Should make for a nice finish. It would be nice to make an adapter that also clamps to the spindle snout of the BP, making for a really ridgid connection. --Doozer

PixMan
02-23-2011, 02:28 PM
I know what you mean about the clatter, but I haven't had any hint of it with the 2" cutter I'd been using because I always use it in the right way for chip load and entry angle. Cuts like a hot knife though buttah!

A cutter like Randy's with the TPG inserts, 0 lead angle and little shear angle is a completely different story when you try to use the long edge for a cut. They work OK as long as you don't go too far beyond the radius of the inserts though.