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View Full Version : Best way to make a horizontal milling arbor



.RC.
02-28-2011, 05:07 AM
Finally getting my turret mill to be capable of horizontal milling.. Something I have wanted to do for awhile... I bought a horizontal head a few years back (not an easy thing to do for an ISO30 spindle) and have just bought a second hand rear support but I have no arbor..

I was going to turn one up on my lathe as my lathe is a goodun and capable of the job..

What is the best way to go around to do this.... What is a suitable material... I have a choice of 4140 or 1020..

I have made up ISO30 stub arbors before but not a long 1" one.. I fear getting it straight without it warping will be the hardest part...

Here is a pic of a short one I made

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/OzRinger/arbor003.jpg

I would like a dedicated horizontal, but they are a bit thin on the ground.... And I think this one is out of my price range.... http://www.shizuokatekko.jp/english/seihin_01_03.html

pipeclay
02-28-2011, 07:04 AM
Finally getting my turret mill to be capable of horizontal milling.. Something I have wanted to do for awhile... I bought a horizontal head a few years back (not an easy thing to do for an ISO30 spindle) and have just bought a second hand rear support but I have no arbor..

I was going to turn one up on my lathe as my lathe is a goodun and capable of the job..

What is the best way to go around to do this.... What is a suitable material... I have a choice of 4140 or 1020..

I have made up ISO30 stub arbors before but not a long 1" one.. I fear getting it straight without it warping will be the hardest part...

Here is a pic of a short one I made

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/OzRinger/arbor003.jpg

I would like a dedicated horizontal, but they are a bit thin on the ground.... And I think this one is out of my price range.... http://www.shizuokatekko.jp/english/seihin_01_03.html
Have you considered making it in 2 pieces,the ISO taper and the Arbor seperate.
I would use 4140 Centrerless ground for the arbor in 1" and another suitable piece of 4140 for the Taper.

After machining the Taper I would then either shrink and pin the Arbor to it or shrink them and then Tig weld.

After fitting the Arbor to the Taper I would then cut the Keyway and thread the end.

I dont feel that you would get very much if any distortion from the welding,it would not require much of a weld to hold it in place (probably 3x.375" fillets),if the weld preps were sufficent you possably would be hard pressed to notice them.

If you wished not to run the chance of distortion from welding the Shrink fit with Pin would be fine,if desired you could have to pins 180degrees apart.

Allternatively bore your taper stock to suit the arbor shrink them rough out your taper then pin then finish machine.

bob ward
02-28-2011, 09:17 AM
The Hafco HM52 vertical/horizontal mills use 30 taper arbors.

https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Turret-Milling-Machines

The horizontal arbors are a 1 piece item, they may be available from Hafco as a spare part, price will probably leave you breathless.

dian
02-28-2011, 09:19 AM
i see these arbors for under 100$. so if its not just for fun, why make one yourself?

J Tiers
02-28-2011, 09:31 AM
The reasons for making your own include non-availability of the taper type, non-availability in sizes that you can use, end styles you van use, etc. If you have a source, buying one is a good option. You will probably buy the spacers anyway, since they are a nuisance to make, and very often the arbor comes with a selection, and maybe with a bearing sleeve, if you need that.

So much said, making an arbor is not that hard. I have made several for my MT3 taper mill, and I am not in any way an expert machinist.

While 1020 will function fine, I think 4140 in the pre-hardened form is a good option just because it will nick up a bit less due to not being quite as soft. The wear isn't a big deal unless you will use it in production, but nicking is a nuisance.

To avoid warping, consider cutting two symmetrical keyways. I made two keyways on one of mine, partly for that reason, and partly because I needed two different widths to accommodate all the cutters.

I would ABSOLUTELY make it in one piece though, the two piece are a big pain IMO.

The only reason to do it as two pieces is if you were to use one hardened taper section with a "QC" type connection to use multiple arbor shanks with it. That, if cleverly done, might let you change setups for successive operations, etc, more easily. But I think it would likely not be as concentric.

Arthur.Marks
02-28-2011, 09:45 AM
I guess the question is "how long is it gonna be?". My initial thought is to cut between centers. One thought, though... when you set it up, make a number of them. All different lengths. No use in having 3" of unused arbor length ruining your rigidity if you don't need it. The benefit of between centers might be that you can rough out arbor diameter, remove and mill the slot, and then re-mount between centers and finish size. Wouldn't that account for any warping that occurred during the milling op.?

randyc
02-28-2011, 02:22 PM
This may not be what you're looking for at all but could be of future interest.

I have a few arbors that came with my machine but wanted something convenient for light slotting and edging work, since this is more common for me than slab milling.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/randy9944/P1020386.jpg

I came up with the idea of using an inexpensive CAT-40/ER-40 collet system and then making several simple arbors from one-inch drill rod. All that was required was to turn one end to fit my end-support bushing and then make a short slot for the cutter key. (The original plan was opposing keyways to minimize distortion but I decided to try one very short one first.) I have less than twenty minutes into this arbor and it can't get much simpler:

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/randy9944/P1020165.jpg

Here's a 3/8 slotter installed on the one inch arbor:

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/randy9944/P1020168.jpg

There is no retaining nut, the assembly is held in position by the end-support with slight preload against a plain thrust washer (no helical cutters = no appreciable side loading). A one-inch spacer on either side of the cutter prevents the cutter from moving laterally.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/randy9944/P1020171.jpg

The idea is to have a half-dozen short arbors permanently loaded with common slotters (and a couple of slitting saws) for light work. … so far, so good … takes about one minute to change cutters. This arbor has now been in use for several months and is working well. I'll give it another six months or so, measure runout to see if the arbor has distorted, and then make three or four more if all is well. (The drill rod isn't heat-treated and the cost of this short length of material was about $2 from Enco.)

BTW, a decent source for new ground spacers is http://tools4cheap.net/

Oldguy
02-28-2011, 02:22 PM
Here is a link to Tools4Cheap that lists an NMTB30 arbor for $75. Shipping to OZ might be a bit pricey, but it could be worth the e-mail to find out. If he has them they must be available from others, as I doubt if he's turning them out in his basement.

http://www.tools4cheap.net/products.php?id=11

(About 3/4 of the way down the page)

Here is a link to his site on eBay where the price is $84:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-NMTB-30-TAPER-HORIZONTAL-MILL-1-ARBOR-SPACERS-/400179145663?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d2c892bbf

I've been looking at these as I have a small horizontal with a 7/8 inch arbor and 7/8 inch cutters are not too plentiful.

Glenn

dian
02-28-2011, 03:26 PM
again, i woul buy it. i dont know what your paying for steel, but over here the price of the material will definately be more than 100$. youll be converting half of it into chips.

Alistair Hosie
02-28-2011, 04:18 PM
There was one here on ebay a few days ago went cheap keep your eyes open or check some colleges closing down.Best of luck Alistair

.RC.
02-28-2011, 04:20 PM
The Hafco HM52 vertical/horizontal mills use 30 taper arbors.

https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Turret-Milling-Machines

The horizontal arbors are a 1 piece item, they may be available from Hafco as a spare part, price will probably leave you breathless.
They used to have them listed on their website.....

Price was over $300... With the AU dollar the way it is now, I expect that to have gone up as nothing else seems to have come down in price with the stronger dollar..

.RC.
02-28-2011, 04:26 PM
Here is a link to Tools4Cheap that lists an NMTB30 arbor for $75. Shipping to OZ might be a bit pricey, but it could be worth the e-mail to find out. If he has them they must be available from others, as I doubt if he's turning them out in his basement.

http://www.tools4cheap.net/products.php?id=11

(About 3/4 of the way down the page)

Here is a link to his site on eBay where the price is $84:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-NMTB-30-TAPER-HORIZONTAL-MILL-1-ARBOR-SPACERS-/400179145663?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d2c892bbf


Glenn

Shipping to AU is quoted at $75 by the ebay calculator...:mad:

J Tiers
03-01-2011, 12:11 AM
again, i woul buy it. i dont know what your paying for steel, but over here the price of the material will definately be more than 100$. youll be converting half of it into chips.

No so fast..... the smart way is to shrink-on the collar, that way the waste as chips is a lot less. Very doubtful that a good shrink-fit is gonna spin.

I shrunk-on the collar on one of mine, because I already had the right length piece, and it wasn't big enough diameter to include a decent collar.

dian
01-17-2012, 02:53 PM
i just happened to run accross the tools4cheap site. so did you wind up making that arbour after all?

gwilson
01-17-2012, 05:52 PM
I used t make them out of truck axles.

oldtiffie
01-17-2012, 06:37 PM
Originally Posted by bob ward

The Hafco HM52 vertical/horizontal mills use 30 taper arbors.

https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Tu...lling-Machines

The horizontal arbors are a 1 piece item, they may be available from Hafco as a spare part, price will probably leave you breathless.


They used to have them listed on their website.....

Price was over $300... With the AU dollar the way it is now, I expect that to have gone up as nothing else seems to have come down in price with the stronger dollar..

.R.C.

they are still on the HAFCO web site @ AU$296 (including 10% GST):

Originally Posted by bob ward

The Hafco HM52 vertical/horizontal mills use 30 taper arbors.

https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Tu...lling-Machines

At that price and given the time and PITA quotients of successfully making one, if I needed one I would not hestitate to buy it at that price.

lane
01-17-2012, 08:13 PM
Make them out of 4140 HT are ETD150 . Turn between centers you will be ok.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shopmadetools004jpg.jpg
Made all of these for my Van Norman Mill.

.RC.
01-17-2012, 10:19 PM
I have since aquired a larger universal mill, so the ISp30 arbor is no longer required, Of course it did not come with a 40 taper arbor (or end support for that matter) but 40 taper is more common then 30 taper...

mike4
01-17-2012, 10:24 PM
.R.C.

they are still on the HAFCO web site @ AU$296 (including 10% GST):

Originally Posted by bob ward

The Hafco HM52 vertical/horizontal mills use 30 taper arbors.

https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Tu...lling-Machines

At that price and given the time and PITA quotients of successfully making one, if I needed one I would not hestitate to buy it at that price.

Have you got a price from Grizzly as they had an equivalent mill to the HM52 and their prices are lower than Hafco landed here.
I have bought some small spares from them a couple of time and with postage added they were still very much lower in cost .
Only problem how quick do you need it ? post from US can be a right pain at times.
I have one here that you could use for dimensions, would give me an excuse to check out your shop.
Michael

oldtiffie
01-17-2012, 10:52 PM
Thanks Mike - and sorry too.

I don't have and don't need a horizontal arbor as I don't have and don't look like getting one anytime soon.

I am waiting for the newer larger Sieg horizotal mill with the SX3 drive head as it suits what I do - and the space I've got.

If it ain't a "bench-top" machine I don't need or want it. I did have a HAFCO turret mill with a horizontal arbor in mind for a while but I gave that thought away.

I'd pay the extra from HAFCO as if the arbor is damaged I can return it. The local office is only about 45Km (30 miles) from here and I can take my wife out to lunch and a "mall-crawl" at the same time.

I would not fancy having to "eat it" or post it back either to the USA and wait for a replacement if it ws damaged.

willmac
01-18-2012, 08:32 AM
Making a new arbor, or modifying an existing one to fit is definitely cost effective. I have modified two cheap second hand arbors to suit my mill, which takes a NMTB 40 arbor. The steel that they are made from is usually fairly tough and hard, but still machinable. Re-cutting the thread for the nut required a bit of patience but worked out fine. I did this for 1" and 1.25" arbors.

Perhaps more tricky is to get a set of spacers that are accurately machined parallel and to size. They really need to be surface ground to achieve this. If any of your spacers are not parallel, you can end up with a slight bend in the arbor when you tighten the end nut.

Another challenge, particularly if you use a type B arbor is to make the bearing support journal. This typically runs in a large bronze bush and needs to be accurately made. In my case, my overarm support uses a pair of large needle roller bearings. This ups the stakes for a good fit and finish very significantly, but it is possible to achieve these with a bit of care.

I have used both of these arbors a fair amount with good results. The cost of buying new arbors would have been a sizeable part of the cost of buying my mill, so I am happy with the results.

I would go ahead and have a go at making your arbor.

Paul Alciatore
01-18-2012, 01:18 PM
No so fast..... the smart way is to shrink-on the collar, that way the waste as chips is a lot less. Very doubtful that a good shrink-fit is gonna spin.

I shrunk-on the collar on one of mine, because I already had the right length piece, and it wasn't big enough diameter to include a decent collar.

I will second that. Only the face of the collar is a working surface so it could be given a final cut after shrinking it on.

dian
01-18-2012, 01:51 PM
i know its an old thread. but nevertheless, we discussed making the arbour from scrach. how much is the steel when made in one piece? how much is it when srunk on (i would weld it)? what steel are we talking about compared to the industrial product? what about the fit. did anybody try to make a sk30 taper on he lathe? i did and was not very lucky. have a miutoyo 0.001 instrument. that is a job for a grinder. taking a sk40 arbour and turning it down seems the most sensible option, at least the material is right.

now, toolsforcheap sells this for 75 bucks including the bushing (i think, didnt look it up).

i also like to make stuff, am bussy making a spinindexer although its cold in the shop, but this just doesnt make sense. dhl to australia will be 50 bucks, so what?