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Peter N
03-05-2011, 09:38 AM
I think I really need to sort something out for myself with this.

I find that I'm flying off the handle - shouting, swearing, and making gestures - all too frequently now whenever I'm in the car.
Today I had a huge face-to-face and toe-to-toe with a bloke half my age in a car park, but luckily both sets of wives were there to prevent it going any further.
And it was all about something incredibly stupid. He bipped his horn, I made a gesture and swore, he swore and went to get out his car, I did get out of mine and then it went from there.

The stupid thing is I was absolutely ready to set to with him right there and then, despite the fact that I don't think I've been in a scrap for more than 20 years.
And it only happens when I'm driving. The rest of the time I'm really laid back and quite relaxed about stuff.

I don't like that fact that I behave like this, and don't know why I seem to lose my temper instantly in a car.
Is it just me, or is anyone else having this problem?

PixMan
03-05-2011, 10:15 AM
You're not alone. It's a common affliction called "road rage" here. And here, we just try to alleviate the problem by instituting laws to regulate emotion. ;)

I used to be like that, and on VERY rare occasions I still find myself getting all worked-up over some other driver's stupidity, inconsideration, lack of skill, or outright aggressive driving habits. And in my advancing age I've just decided "it's not worth the aggravation." Instead of getting ticked off, I just remark to myself what a bonehead that other driver is, and continue on my way. I remind myself that the jerk who just cut me off to get one car-length ahead of me is really only going to get to the same place one nanosecond before me. And I will have gotten out of my car and off to do my business before that person would even get their car stopped, because I don't have my cellphone, GPS, coffee cup and papers to gather up.

Chill out. Let it roll off, don't take any of that crap personally. You win in the end anyhow.

aostling
03-05-2011, 10:15 AM
That guy should not have honked his horn. Out here in the West that is asking for trouble. If one hears a horn honked in anger, the assumption is that the driver is from Boston or New York. Just not done.

GKman
03-05-2011, 10:26 AM
Here in the States we just shoot 'em.

lazlo
03-05-2011, 10:35 AM
Here in the States we just shoot 'em.

Yeah, I was going to say -- it sounds like you just came from L.A. Peter :)

Horns are used a lot in any major city in the US. In Austin, that would be for people stopped at a green light, talking on their cell phones ;)

My Wife was 8 months pregnant with my first child, and she was on the way to the mall during Christmas. Some redneck in a pickup truck was apparently pissed off that she was driving slow, so he actually followed her to the mall, got out, and was screaming at my pregnant Wife in the parking lot, until someone called the mall police.

My Wife came home in tears. Things would have been a lot less pleasant if I were there...

Iraiam
03-05-2011, 10:43 AM
Although I get very angry and irritated with people, I won't let the jerks see it, I just shake my head and walk away from them and think to myself "what an effing idiot". The idiot gets to think he or she is not an idiot and I get to know otherwise. Although on one occasion walking away from this drunk idiot made him madder. he grabbed me from behind and wound up black and blue.

Later I may get online and play a few rounds of Battlefield 2 to get my aggressions out!

John Stevenson
03-05-2011, 10:47 AM
Some redneck in a pickup truck was apparently pissed off that she was driving slow, so he actually followed her to the mall, got out, and was screaming at my pregnant wife in the parking lot,

You meant half the population of Texas was in the parking lot ? :D :)

lazlo
03-05-2011, 10:54 AM
You meant half the population of Texas was in the parking lot ? :D :)

Oh, you probably don't realize -- Austin isn't in Texas :) Austin is a college town, magnet for live music, and a mini silicon valley.
So no one in Austin is from Texas: we have hippies, yuppies, students and geeks. No belt buckles or cowboy boots.

Now Dallas is a more amusing situation. A lot of the folks you run into there with hats, boots, or belt buckles are Yankees in disguise ;)

But in reference to the OP, they give out concealed carry permits in Texas in your cereal box, so confronting people over road rage is usually a profoundly bad idea...

Mark McGrath
03-05-2011, 11:04 AM
I think I really need to sort something out for myself with this.

I find that I'm flying off the handle - shouting, swearing, and making gestures - all too frequently now.
.


Get rid of the Colchester. :D

Nice to see you posting again btw.

lodcomm
03-05-2011, 11:07 AM
That guy should not have honked his horn. Out here in the West that is asking for trouble. If one hears a horn honked in anger, the assumption is that the driver is from Boston or New York. Just not done.

Out here in CT (1/2 way in between "boston & new york") - We regularly use the horn to "Communicate" with our northern and southern driving neighbors. using the horn in anger, we are extremely satisfied when we can prompt the other driver ("hornee") to give us the finger..

-t

davidh
03-05-2011, 11:10 AM
all drivers except for myself and my wife are either "fools" or "idiots".
the fools are driving faster than me, and the idiots are driving wayyy too slow !

Weston Bye
03-05-2011, 11:12 AM
I think I really need to sort something out for myself with this.

I find that I'm flying off the handle - shouting, swearing, and making gestures - all too frequently now whenever I'm in the car...
,,, The rest of the time I'm really laid back and quite relaxed about stuff.

I don't like that fact that I behave like this, and don't know why I seem to lose my temper instantly in a car.
Is it just me, or is anyone else having this problem?

Peter, what else is happening in your life? Any other stresses, irritations or frustrations going on? If there are, identifying these might help in dealing with the road rage, and resolving them may reduce the road rage to just road irritation. YMMV*

*I am not a psycho-doctor.

firbikrhd1
03-05-2011, 11:18 AM
This a daily issue here in Miami, Florida. The problem is brought about by a number of factors. The mix of nationalities and their accompanying customs, stresses of people being out of work, other life pressures and just too many people compressed in one metropolitan area all contribute to a high level of frustration that many times is taken out on the road. Mostly it seems people have forgotten how to be respectful and considerate of each other when and where it's needed most. There is a general feeling of "I'm more important than anyone else". This inconsideration flows over into participating in activities such as texting and talking on the cell phone while driving, rather than paying attention to the task at hand, driving safely, all the while raising the level of frustration felt by other drivers. Sooner or later something has to give and it usually winds up in a road rage incident.

The question is how to avoid being involved in one yourself. There are a few steps you can take. First, plan ahead for delays and expect to be on the road traveling from place to place longer than necessary. When someone does something disrespectful or inconsiderate try to ignore it, let it pass, put it behind you. When you get angry it only hurts you. The offender has forgotten about it thirty seconds later while you continue to simmer. Remember that in this day and age it has become acceptable, in the minds of many, to shun responsibility for one's actions. I don't subscribe to that theory but the fact remains that many do. The challenge is for you to win, come out on top. You won't if you end up in a fight or get shot. Even if you win the battle you lose the war. Lawyers and courts cost big bucks and you'll be losing a lot even if you are in the right. A lesson can be taken from some Christian teachings that will help you win, "turn the other cheek".

DICKEYBIRD
03-05-2011, 11:25 AM
I find that I'm flying off the handle - shouting, swearing, and making gestures - all too frequently now whenever I'm in the car.
Get rid of that freekin' British car!:D That's enough to pi$$ anybody off.:p

dvbydt
03-05-2011, 11:26 AM
Peter,

Defensive driving. "Every other driver on the road is an accident looking for somewhere to happen. "

Stay cool, stay safe and above all stay sane.

From Wikipedia :-

Illegitimi non carborundum is a mock-Latin aphorism meaning "Don't let the b*****ds grind you down". (Carborundum is an industrial abrasive material.) ...

Ian

J Tiers
03-05-2011, 12:03 PM
Learn a foreign language..... just enough of one to ream the bas$$$s out with a number of choice terms.....

better, learn TWO and use the one they won't understand.... if there are appropriate culturally specific gestures, that's even better.

Now you can happily get your anger out without them knowing what is up. And if, as is the case some places in the US, "road rage" is a crime, most likely nobody can *prove* you did anything inappropriate.

Or, you can take a more pro-active approach.... get more exercise, and figure out what has you tense and hair-triggered..... pretty much nothing on the road is worth getting into a fight about.

I will admit, "we" are pre-programmed to "not take any crap"......... a fact that used to lead to some heated arguments on this site.... I notice that there are very few now....... if any.

rohart
03-05-2011, 12:31 PM
Make sure your wife is fit and ready to defend you.

I was looking for the entrance to a car park in strange territory, so inevitably was driving a little slowly, and signalling. This jerk followed me in and accused me of having dim indicator lights. He wouldn't let me and my seventeen year old daughter leave. He parked up behind us.

Ten minutes later, we're engaged in fisticuffs. He was big, but not as hard as I expected, and my daughter had to dig the flesh out from under her nails. And to cap it all, as we finally left, someone who'd been parked nearby came up and said he was about to call the cops on the aggressor if we hadn't got out OK.

Damn shame was I put a hole in my brand new jeans, and that was the afternoon were were off to visit Windsor Palace to see the art on show. So that's why I visited the Queen with my trousers ripped.

God knows what the outcome would have been if I'd been alone. Maybe I would have grovelled a little more. Who's to say.

If you value what's left of your front teeth, grovel. Your pals should give you plenty of sympathy later in the day.

John Stevenson
03-05-2011, 12:41 PM
I find that I'm flying off the handle - shouting, swearing, and making gestures - all too frequently now whenever I'm in the car.


Peter,
Next time you come visit, take the train, I have enough trouble with customers !!

Peter N
03-05-2011, 01:01 PM
Thanks chaps.

I don't normally air my problems in public, and I wasn't sure whether it deserved a response or not, so I appreciate everyone who's chipped in.
It was just that my own response earlier today worries me a bit when I think of what could happen if I don't get it under control.
I'm not old - I'll hit 52 this year - but I probably shouldn't be picking fights with people half my age, or on other occasions twice my size.
The problem is that this occurs without any concious thought, it's more like it's a built-in automatic and instant reaction. And only when I'm in the car.

For sure running a business has been stressful for the past few years, but I can usually switch that bit off, unless I'm subconsciously stressing.
Family life is great and we have no money worries, I just turn into an arsehole when I get behind the wheel.

Peter

Lodsb
03-05-2011, 01:11 PM
Take a deep breath before you start the car, and remember that exactly half the people out there are Below Average in both intelligence and skill (they also vote, btw). There's no cure, you might as well get mad at the road for all the good it does.

An old friend of my father's was shot dead by an "aggressive driver". Brilliant. That man now enjoys the company of his family from behind bars.

Don't be part of the problem.

Dave P.
03-05-2011, 01:20 PM
This is going to sound strange, but it's true.
I carry a Glock, basically all the time, have for years and the responsibility
of it makes me much more controlled. I just ignore all the petty stuff,
walk away and don't worry about it.
Secretly knowing that I could kill the SOB lets me just smile
and walk away and they never even know.
Dave

KIMFAB
03-05-2011, 01:22 PM
Get rid of that freekin' British car!:D That's enough to pi$$ anybody off.:p
I'll second this. The Buick Park Avenue was perfect for this.
It's hard to get angry when you are sitting in a nice, comfortable couch.

Don't get a Cadillac tho because then you will lose your ability to park properly.

small.planes
03-05-2011, 01:32 PM
I just turn into an arsehole when I get behind the wheel


Ride your bike instead then :p

IGMC

Dave

mike os
03-05-2011, 01:34 PM
Peter... if you are also having a lot of stress & crap from work too, it might be worth having a chat to your GP.......certainly if it gets worse.

last thing you want is getting arrested for some stupid prick with a new horn. From my own experience I know stress alone can make you (well me ;) ) behave in a manner I would not normally concider & if you are finding work half as stressful as I am at the mo, you have my simpathies dude, things suck at the moment

Michael Edwards
03-05-2011, 02:00 PM
I don't have a rage problem... just an overabundance of irritating $hit. :D


ME

DICKEYBIRD
03-05-2011, 02:03 PM
Serenity Prayer::D

"Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those people I had to kill because they pi$$ed me off."

Mike Burdick
03-05-2011, 02:18 PM
Peter,

Hang in there! As you age you'll lose your sight, your hearing, your memory, and your ability to do just about everything! Your life becomes quite peaceful!:)

Of course you'll aggravate everyone around you, but... :D

.

Astronowanabe
03-05-2011, 04:28 PM
Classical music station (no not rock classics) absolutely does wonders for me.

I avoid driving during rush hours or consumer holidays and acknowledge
up front what I am in for if I do choose to go out driving then.

Pull over and park for ten minutes when I notice my ire is getting up.

After a few times it gets easier to decide it just isn't worth it.

airsmith282
03-05-2011, 04:42 PM
look at it this why if the world ends as we know it in 2012 then problem solved more more jerks to deal with, and live it better, now on a more personal note, there are way to many people that should not even have the privilage of owning a car or a drivers licences and its all over the world like this , i shake my head alot , i flip the odd jert the bird mostly women but alot of men to , teens think they rule the road, ya right ok , NOT, no one under 30 should have a licence and should pass a physc test first to see if they are even stable enoguh to drive, and no cell phones at all , man thoes things cause so many problems in cars , the list goes on but thats the crap world we live in takes all kinds to make up this planet thats for sure ..

Black_Moons
03-05-2011, 04:54 PM
You need a funner mode of transportation. I like my motorized bicycle, Mainly ride it WOT or nearly locking up the front brakes. Why bother doing something inbeween when I get 100MPG anyway!
Take all the clear corners like im racing.. just because yaknow, I can.
And push comes to shove, I can stop from its top speed of 60kpg in about 20 feet :) Slight pucker factor as it trys to throw me over the front bars, but ehh, all part of the fun.

And if I blow up the motor doing 7000rpm+ for extended periods of time. Oh well, $160 will get me another. $50 if its just the top end that blew up.

DENedbalek
03-05-2011, 05:05 PM
Peter, I am feeling you on the irritation while driving.

On one particular day I am driving to work, the same way every day, know all of the slow spots and opportunities for "issues". I am exiting the freeway through a toll booth. There 2 lanes for this and I merge successfully with my fellow freeway escapees. Now on the feeder, there are 4 lanes with the left one striped off for drivers to merge right and away from us exiting the freeway. Just a hundred yards ahead is an intersection with traffic lights. So here we all sit waiting on the light to change so we can finish merging and proceed through the intersection.

Well, as I patiently wait my turn, surrounded by others patiently waiting, this clown decides to drive through the striped off lane and forcibly merge in front of me. I see this coming and decided I would not allow it, not in front of me, not on my watch, it was not going to happen. What a jerk. I stayed close to car in front of me and did not let him in. Once traffic started moving, he ended up right beside me on my right when the light changed to red and we're waiting again. He was having an absolute hissy fit. He was clearly yelling, flippin' me the bird, honking his horn, etc. Just when the light changed green again and we start moving, he swerves over like he's going to run into me. I didn't take the bluff (I've got a full sized pickup and insurance - he had a small old beater of a toyota pickup) and he is even more animatedly yelling and carrying on. Keep in mind we are moving now, and I am about to turn left at the intersection, he appears to be going straight through.

Once last swerve toward me as he clears the traffic and can accelerate away, but no he slows ... and tries to spit on my truck. One small problem, he forgot to roll his window down. It looked messy, although at this point I am laughing so hard that I was afraid of losing control, I make my turn and never see him again.

Now, every time I am frustrated with fellow commuters, I think of that story and I remain in zen like state of calm, maybe with a bit of a smile on my face.

Dwayne

saltmine
03-05-2011, 05:28 PM
In Arizona we don't have too many "gun laws". So, getting crisp with somebody over a navigational error is extremely dangerous, on the highway.
I'm beginning to believe that most cars in Arizona that have "out-of-state" license plates are the only ones not packing heat, especially Californica.

We don't have too many gun related crimes (but when we do, they make national news).

Recently, a trio of California "Gangbangers" showed up here, and went around beating up people who were wearing blue clothing (blue is the gang color for the"Crips" in La.) They battered a homeless guy, beat a 12 year old kid sensless, and when they got to #3, a 19 year old "Redneck", one of them got shot four times with a 9mm handgun. A bystander called the police, and after taking the kid's statement, they went over to the local hospital and found "Mr. Gangbanger" and his pals in the emergency room, being treated for numerous gunshot wounds. They were taken into custody. The 19 year old was relased and his handgun returned. (as it should be)

Road rage around these parts usually ends up with somebody being run over, shot, or beaten within an inch (25mm on the metric scale) of his life.

Most of us just try to ignore the idiots. But, when a confrontation can't be avoided, somebody is gonna get hurt.

The Fixer
03-05-2011, 05:43 PM
go away by themselves. I have found that most times these situations occur they should not be a surprise to you.
1.You can't change the behavior of the hoards of "impolite' drivers on the roads
2. Most situations are predictable and avoidable
If you are giving your full attention to driving that should include the drivers behind you not just those in front of you! Base your driving on what others will/may do not what you think they should do.

The recent situation likely could have been prevented if you were paying attention to the other driver and acted accordingly. Not to say that what you were doing was 'wrong' (although they may have) just simply contrary to the other drivers intentions, be they right or wrong.

Black Forest
03-05-2011, 05:59 PM
I find it hard to understand how a 52 year old man can not think through this problem. Do you really have so little control over how you think? I am sure you have issues in other area's also but just notice them in the car. Driving is a little like the internet. People don't think you know who they are so they do strange things they would not do with known people.

I would be embarrassed to know I couldn't control my emotions.

This all said from a guy who once was waiting for a car to back out of a parking place and another car pulled in full well knowing I was waiting for that space.
I got out of my truck and told the young man in the black Firebird that I was waiting for that space. He said he knew I was waiting but he got there first. Ha ha ha! I told him he had one chance to move his car. He laughed so I went and got a chain out of the back of my truck and started to hook it onto his car. He grabbed me and promptly he was on the ground holding his balls and face. I hooked the chain on and drug his car out of the parking place. Then I parked and told him(he was still on the ground)to have a nice day. I also told him I had his plate number and if anything happened to my truck I would hunt him down. Yes this was in Texas!

jack3140
03-05-2011, 06:07 PM
sounds to me like you are a perfectly normal human try not to let it bother you we are for the most part just like you have a nice day

Your Old Dog
03-05-2011, 06:24 PM
If per chance you weren't kidding then let me offer this up. You may have a bit of depression. It doesn't come on overnight and it won't go away any faster but there are things you can do for it. I not embarrased to admit I have it and take a med for it that after about 3 months has started working quite well. I actually have moments now where I can say I am honestly at peace with the world.....well everywhere except my pit bucket. :D ( I only got one left in there but I can still hear him sloshing around, the other one split!)

Feel better as life is way to short for flying off the handle and being pissed off all the time.

The Artful Bodger
03-05-2011, 07:32 PM
This all said from a guy who once was waiting for a car to back out of a parking place and another car pulled in full well knowing I was waiting for that space.
I got out of my truck and told the young man in the black Firebird that I was waiting for that space. He said he knew I was waiting but he got there first. Ha ha ha! I told him he had one chance to move his car. He laughed so I went and got a chain out of the back of my truck and started to hook it onto his car. He grabbed me and promptly he was on the ground holding his balls and face. I hooked the chain on and drug his car out of the parking place. Then I parked and told him(he was still on the ground)to have a nice day. I also told him I had his plate number and if anything happened to my truck I would hunt him down.


I have to wonder what you would have done had the driver of the Firebird laughed and walked away?

aboard_epsilon
03-05-2011, 07:36 PM
Not lost it for ages ..

I never liked people driving up my bumper following me .

Used to touch the brake lights ..found that it made them go ape **** ..and pull in front of me ..and do the same ..

So i tried something else ..and it's working ..and has been working for years with no trouble from them at all .

I put my indicator on ..and pull to one side of the road ....I slow down to 15 mph.........usually because of traffic coming the other way they cant get passed.

I drive for about 1 min at 15mph.

They eventually get passed.........and at the time they think they have won.
They think i was trying my best to let them go past, and sometimes thank me .

They haven't won because they've been slowed down to 15mph for a whole min.

often wonder if they ever realise this .

all the best.markj

J Tiers
03-05-2011, 08:32 PM
As long as we are telling odd stories...........

A while ago I was driving home from work on a street that is 25mph when school warning lights are on. These indicate bus loading time, and they were on. The street has one lane each way, but just after the school zone with a wider area as a bus loading zone, it widens out to have two each way, just before a stoplight.

I normally keep an eye on the road around me, and so I see a block+ back of me a white SUV, probably a Ford Explorer (old type). OK, fine, noted.

I get up past the school, put in the right blinker, and move over into the new right lane, stopping for the light.

I hear a noise to the right, and look over..... here is a white Ford Explorer up on the sidewalk, nose against a sign, with a 20-something young woman (definitely not a "lady", apparently) talking on a cell phone, indicating by gestures her opinion, and screaming the entire list of conventional bad words at me.

Apparently she was driving fast, drove right through the marked school bus zone, buses, kids, and all, and was ticked at me for "cutting her off" and "forcing her onto the sidewalk"..... and apparently she was totally unaware that she had just driven through a marked school bus zone, at over the speed limit, and should be looking at a several hundred dollar ticket, plus possible added charges.

I was so surprised that I failed to do the obvious, which would have been to laugh and point at her and laugh even harder...... and point at her some more.....

Dr Stan
03-05-2011, 08:37 PM
Don't get a Cadillac tho because then you will lose your ability to park properly.

Excuse me :p

x39
03-05-2011, 08:40 PM
My name is Larry and when I start getting angry I remember this acronym-
K.I.L.L.= Keep It Light Larry.

PeteF
03-05-2011, 09:04 PM
Peter I think the fact you've been mature enough to first see, and then expose your vulnerabilities to a bunch of strangers says more about your nature than you may appreciate. I certainly applaud you for it anyway. FWIW I'd agree with others, I think your recent experiences are a reflection of what's happening elsewhere in your life. I don't know you or your life, so sorry but can't provide any more insight than that I'm afraid.

As a keen road cyclist in Sydney (possibly one of the world's most cycling unfriendly cities) I deal with a LOT of road rage directed toward me. Rather bizarrely you'd think it would be in densely trafficked areas where I was somehow affecting the traffic (for some people turning their steering wheel to change their vehicles path by 1 metre is right up there with losing their first born child it would seem :rolleyes: ). In fact I get the MOST abuse when I'm out riding in isolated areas, on otherwise vacant streets, or when I'm in riding in a cycle lane ie at the times when I'm not possibly affecting the person directing the abuse. I have no idea why that's the case. However what I DO notice is the abuse/rage mainly comes from the lower socio-economic groups. I'd suggest that's because elsewhere in life they have very little control over their environment, they've been spat on their whole life, and now it's time to do a bit of spitting back. I just happen to be the most vulnerable person around at the time as the 2 tonnes of metal (invariably with an engine capacity inversely proportional to their IQ) gives them a feeling of power and control that is otherwise devoid in their lives.

One sees precisely the same on the internet. Just recently I personally experienced a member who was far more intent on trying to drag members down to his level than aspire to anything better. You basically know people like that are losers elsewhere in life and the net gives them the feeling of power they're otherwise missing. Just like seeing a fit cyclist and instead of thinking "hey check out that 'old guy' on the bike, he sure looks fit, good on him, i should really drag my bike out and exercise too!", it's an opportunity to try to drag them down. That's ok by me, I'll get off my bike and think the guy is a F.wit ... and he'll wander off to get on with his obesity related illnesses and early heart attack ;) On the net the person gets a solo-starring in my ignore list, people see him as a F.Wit, and he wanders off to wonder why he always seems to be struggling in life!

The fact you've aired this Peter almost certainly suggests you wouldn't normally fit one of the examples above, but is it possible that there's some temporary stress that's causing much the same end result? Apart from doing something about the underlying cause, next time you find yourself in this situation imagine you were an onlooker. I don't know about you, but when I see road rage between 2 motorists I almost always see the instigator as a wanker. Same on the net, they may think they're being smart dragging people down, while the reality is most people actually see them as tossers. If you picture yourself from an outsider's perspective there's a good chance you'll see it all for what it is; a storm in a teacup.

Good luck with it, and hopefully you'll identify what's causing the underlying stress.

Pete

boslab
03-05-2011, 09:15 PM
Apart from the obveous, get yourslf a medical, pay attention to clotting, BP and liver function, i know it sounds odd but strange anger cycles are often a symptom of an underlying physical condition, in my case arteriosclorosis, the already restricted arteries upon the action of adrenalin in even small amounts caused a magnified phsycological response.
It may be that your just an ornary git behind the wheel [no offence] but get a check anyway.
live long and prosper
regards
mark

saltmine
03-05-2011, 09:32 PM
Being an "old guy" I tend to ignore idiotic behavior.

But, when road rage overcomes another driver, because I'm driving the posted speed limit, or not darting from lane to lane, trying to rush through traffic, I think I've found a seemingly harmless solution to the rager's actions.

I carry a good digital camera in my car. It's easy to reach, and it does video when needed.

The last time I had some guy pull up next to me, screaming and cursing, waving his arms and jerking his car this way and that, I grab the camera.

A short video, time and date stamped, makes for a very convincing argument settler....Especially if I include the raging moron's license plate number in the video.

The last time I employed this tactic, I showed a police officer the video, and explained that the guy had been tailgating me on a two-lane road, trying to force me to speed up or pull over, out of his way....
The officer watched the video calmly, and wrote down the guy's license plate number, noting that the plate had an expired tag on it.
He ran the plate through NCIC, and came back to tell me that the guy had two arrest warrants pending,,,(Domestic violence and public drunkenness).

With that, he thanked me for the information, and drove away, probably to the guy's house to "have a word with him".

The State Police also encourage drivers to call the police if they observe any aggressive or erratic driving....A very practical and good use for a cell phone..
All the police need is a location, direction of travel, and, if possible, a license plate number....They will take care of the rest.

wierdscience
03-05-2011, 10:20 PM
It's not you Peter,it's the increasing number of idiots on the road.

The otherday I was nearly in a head on crash getting off the interstate.I looked down the ramp and here comes a car straight on in the wrong direction in my lane accelerating past 60mph.
The young lady driving it had her hands at 10&2 on the steering wheel just as she should have..........text messaging:eek: :eek: :mad:

Imagine her suprise as I blew the horn and called her a stupid Bitch :D

SGW
03-05-2011, 10:31 PM
It's good that you are taking a hard look at your behavior. I tend to agree with the others that you need to take a look at what else may be going on in your life to cause stress and frustration. There are ways to help deal with it. A few ideas:

1. The wonders of modern medication. I'm not a big fan of medicating, but it might be appropriate. Talk to a doc and tell him/her what's happening with you.

2. Meditation, to slow down and relax your mind and body.

3. Change the bad stuff in the rest of your life, if you can.

I once heard a sermon titled "Boston Driving -- a Buddhist Approach." I don't remember the details, but one can make up one's own sermon about driving peacefully based on the title.

Bill736
03-05-2011, 10:50 PM
As I get older, I find I'm much less prone to engage in road rage behavior than years ago. I don't even beep my horn at idiot drivers any more, since horns are warning devices and not instruments of anger. I drive at the speed limit, come to complete stops at stop signs, and try to imagine myself as a model safe driver. When people do make angry gestures at me, the most I may do is to smile and wave to them. It drives them nuts. I also get some satisfaction in knowing that those aggressive drivers are the ones who will get the tickets, fines, license suspensions, accidents, and high insurance rates, and not me. I just keep smiling, since I know that in the long run, I've won .

mayfieldtm
03-05-2011, 11:44 PM
I used to be quick to knock someone on their ass.

As time went by, I noticed more and more that whenever I got mad, my kidneys would feel like they were on fire. I supposed it had something to do with Adrenalin.

So I learned a little trick. Whenever someone f***s with me, I would think to my self... Do I really care? and Is it worth it? Usually the answers are "Nop" and I'll go on my merry way.

Any more I think most people can sometimes act and do Jerk like things (including myself), but I find I like all types of people and will give them the benefit of the doubt.

Tom M.

PeteF
03-05-2011, 11:52 PM
The young lady driving it had her hands at 10&2 on the steering wheel just as she should have..........text messaging

I've seen the same, only this talented young lass was looking at herself in the appropriately adjusted rear-view mirror while talking on the phone with one hand. With the other hand she was putting on her lipstick! :eek: I'm not sure quite which was steering her car better in the approximate forward direction, her knee or divine intervention! However given the speed she was travelling at I'd expected her to shortly be in a position to ask The Boss personally!!

Willy
03-06-2011, 12:27 AM
PeteF, as a cyclist, you especially will appreciated the level of stupidity demonstrated by a driver in Brazil last week.
Cyclists were taking part in an organized protest ride aimed at better rights for cyclist in their city, when out of the blue some idiot that couldn't tolerate the inconvenience any longer, took it upon himself to mow down approximately 100 cyclist (http://sfist.com/2011/02/28/driver_runs_over_cyclists_protestin.php)!:eek:
Amazingly, other than common sense there were no fatalities.

As a now mostly retired trucker that usually logged about 3,500-5,000 miles a week I can assure everyone that I was exposed to the temptations of road rage myself on a daily basis.
My philosophy for controlling my anger revolved around telling myself at the start of the day that I would be sharing the road with at least a million a$$holes that day and to get used to it or change vocations.
Let things slide or it will eat you alive, then you'll end up being just like the idiot who's actions you detest.

PeteF
03-06-2011, 12:46 AM
Willy, yes I saw that on the news, amazing as you say that people weren't more seriously hurt. Mind you, while it definitely can't EVER support such behaviour by the driver, the critical mass riders I feel don't do us any favours as cyclists. I've never partaken in the regular event myself, but as I understand it, Critical Mass is a loosely organised openly invited group of cyclists who will ride during peak hour, often on a Friday IIRC, intentionally disrupting other road users (ie car, trucks, busses) in order to protest their point. Needless to say the other road users get incredibly irritated by the whole thing and I personally feel it's completely counter-productive if the intention is better integration between ALL road users. Personally I try not to disrupt other road users by my presence on the road while I'm on my bike, and in return I ask for them to respect my safety and act as if I were a member of their family they were driving around. You'd think with such basic requests from both parties it shouldn't be too hard to make it work, and it certainly does in much more densely populated countries and cities than we have here, but sadly it's a cultural thing that, while changing, needs to change a heck of a lot quicker that's for sure!!!

J Tiers
03-06-2011, 01:15 AM
That must be a local thing there......

Around here, we have the riders who are either 'training" or want to look that way..... attired in race gear.....

They are not bound by stop signs, red lights, no turn signs, etc..... Nothing stops them and they disobey all ther rules of the road at will. At stoplights, they zoom up between the lines of traffic, look for an opening, and zoom across against the red light, dodging the cross traffic.

It would serve them right if when they get hit, the witnesses just dragged them to the side of the road, and left them there with nothing but a "sucks to be you" comment. That's what they are asking for.

If I saw such, I'd definitely call the ambulance for them, if only so I could carefully explain to the cops exactly what the blinking idiot had done to get clobbered. Wouldn't want a decent driver blamed for the accident.......

PeteF
03-06-2011, 03:41 AM
Jerry I've heard that type of story sooooo many times before it gets a bit tiresome to hear to be honest. I have no idea how cyclists behave in your part of the world, but have a pretty good idea here and I can assure you the story is identical ... and around here it's generally sprouted by angry little rednecks driving large V8 cars or "trucks" with a few "issues" in their rather depressing and miserable lives. Again, it's a power trip by picking on the vulnerable. However if you genuinely think it "serves anyone right" to be injured, regardless of what they're doing, then that possibly says a bit about you doesn't it!

Just like the rest of society there are morons on bicycles, there are morons in cars, there are morons in trucks, there are morons driving ships, there are morons everywhere; mode of transport is pretty much irrelevant. Whenever I see one of those moron cyclists doing something stupid or breaking a road rule I cringe because I know full well that the redneck brigade can't possibly differentiate between some moron, who happens to be riding a bicycle at the time, and "cyclists" ie suddenly it becomes a label that is attached to ALL cyclists for some bizarre reason. I'm one of those people "attired in race gear" you seemingly despise so much and spend a lot of time on the road. As far as I'm aware I don't break ANY road rules (certainly not deliberately, I may unknowingly make errors), nor do any of the people I ride with. One thing about cycling is it's pretty much devoid of distractions and you find yourself taking in a lot more of what's going on around you. What I can say without hesitation is irrespective of all the places in the world I've either driven and/or cycled, I see far, FAR more motorists routinely break road rules compared to cyclists. It's a matter of self-preservation, you may get away with it in a car, but carry on like a moron on a bike and sure as the sun will come up tomorrow you'll eventually get clobbered. Darwin's theory is at its finest when all you have is "race attire" on I can assure you!

Circlip
03-06-2011, 05:32 AM
Peter N., you should try reverse psycology, at 52 you are officially a "Grumpy Old Man". Just because some, who would have better been culled at the family planning stage wind you up, Chill. You're only raising your blood pressure. Smile, wave and then run over them.:D Two wrongs don't make a right and two w*nkers just make a bigger mess.

Regards Ian.

spope14
03-06-2011, 06:54 PM
I hate to say it, but those with road rage are those I avoid at nearly all costs. I get to drive Boston, NYC, and even Denver on a regular basis every year. Even my town is full of those who are agressive. There a few things I do to remember to keep off the road rage wagon. 1. There is a lot of road ahead. 2. Fixing my car takes money of my own and I lose the use of the vehicle for quite a while. 3. It passes in seconds. 4. Let the idiots by and keep driving. 5. Life is too short for this type of stuff.

I do pull over for speeding drivers on country or one lane roads. I tend to give way on the interstate for rage drivers and have reported a few. I keep my middle finger on the steering wheel and not in the windshield. I enjoy the privlidge of driving, not sitting at home waiting for rides. I am also very sure I have done my share of dumb stunts driving as well, enough to irritate a few fellow drivers over the years. Only got challenged once a few years back by a person who followed me home because I was doing only 35 in a 30 zone, I told him I would call the police to sort it out, did so, he was fined and taken away for road rage.

My past week with irritating drivers: Monday, got cut off by a right turning driver going four lanes over at a stop light in Orlando. Got behind a person without change at a tool booth- in Orlando, walked up and paid the fare with extra quarters after a couple of horn honks and a finger from him. Hey, what could I do? Cut off at Logan airport by a bus, I am pretty sure they could not see me if I fingered them, what is that worth anyway. Behind a person doing 15 MPH in a 50 zone near Bradford NH, wait for the passing lane. Today, Big old Dodge Ram right on my bumper less than 1/2 car behind on I-93 near Salem doing probably 90, I was at 80, wait for the hole in the right lane, he can wait. He fingered me, I ignored it. NYC two weeks back, had a guy try to "fender" me out of the way on I-95 by the Lincoln Tunnel, used his finger as a horn - give way. Hey, life is short, giving way and staying out of the fight with those who really want it is a challenge, kind of like dealing with stupid drunks at a bar is how I see it now, but it is worth it.

jdunmyer
03-06-2011, 08:28 PM
When I was a kid, I attended a movie where they showed a cartoon before the main feature. This one was on "The Automobile", and was funny yet true to form. They showed a car shaped like a giant "T", so as to have a wide enough front seat to accomodate all the passengers. Another part showed a battle over the Motorist's Pot of Gold, IE: a parking spot.

But, the part that has stuck with me the most over all these years was the demonstration of behavior change when a person gets behind the wheel.

The person exited his house onto the sidewalk. Tipped his hat to a passing lady, and stepped around an ant crossing the walk. Got into his car, smiling all the while. Began cranking: Rrrr, rrr, rrrr, rrr. His expression began to change, the smile was gone. Rrr, rrr, rrr, rrrrr. You could see the color come up in his face. Rrrr, rrr, rrr, rrr. His face was now nearly pure rage. Rrrrr, rrrr, rrrr, Vrooom! as the engine starts. He slams it into reverse, backing onto the street, nearly hitting a pedestrian. Hollers and screams at him, while honking the horn.

Dunno where a writer would have gotten the idea for such a story, especially 50+ years ago. So, Peter, maybe it's just natural to be troubled with a bit of road rage. You just need to control it.

Personally, I'm with Dave P, I carry all the time, and am always on my best behavior because of that.

aboard_epsilon
03-06-2011, 08:44 PM
I had friend and neibour..he never drove in his whole life.

He was an old man ..so I took him out for rides in my car.
just so that i could make him happy give him a change etc to his every day life.

it didn't make him happy at all ..he was the worst passenger Ive had in my car ..

road rage.more like road furry with him .

I had to say to him .."hey, who's driving here ,I'm the one that's supposed to get upset, at other road users mistakes.. not you!"

Had to stop taking him out in the end ..it was upsetting him way too much .

all the best.markj

rohart
03-06-2011, 10:35 PM
A few years after I started driving someone gave me the idea to count how many driving mistakes I made on each trip, or during each day's driving. Back then I remember the day with no mistakes was a rarity. I'm talking about crossing on the green without checking both ways, going to quickly into a roundabout, basically anything that could have caused a problem if the other driver wasn't a good driver.

The mistakes gradually reduced, until nowadays they are rare.

Another experience was on a long bike ride. I was running through central England on villaged roads when I thought to myself, "Now slow down - there might be a ten ton truck on the wrong side of the road around the next corner." Well there was, and I was OK. But I remember that like it was yesterday.

But in those days the roads were quiet enough for road rage to be very rare.

Nowadays I tell myself that I should drive like a Formula One driver. Like a Formula One driver when he's in his road car and doesn't want to be noticed. It'll be a quick car, and he'll have a quick blast on a quiet stretch, but he sure as hell won't look conspicuous, or get involved with anyone else. He knows he can enjoy his motoring ten minutes later somewhere down the road, and that the quickest way to get there is to let whatever git is arguing with him to have his own way.

I've been through some difficult family times over the past few years, helping my eldest daughter pull herself through the dangers of anorexia. Whenever anything confrontational rears its ugly head I try to think back to those times, and remember that after being on the receiving end of an uncalled for tirade I walk away with a fit and healthy mind, body and family.

A sa postscript, if I found myself in a position where medics were suggesting I take medication, I know what I'd do. I'd start growing the natural medication. Much better for you.

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/CannabisCurve.html

Thruthefence
03-06-2011, 11:03 PM
"Now Dallas is a more amusing situation. A lot of the folks you run into there with hats, boots, or belt buckles are Yankees in disguise"

And to the west, is Ft Worth, where the boots, hats, and buckles, are pretty much the uniforn of the day. Much more 'real cowpoke culture.

Bill736
03-06-2011, 11:12 PM
There's no question in my mind that some drivers become " empowered" when they get behind the steering wheel of a vehicle. They use the vehicle as a weapon of vengeance and aggression. My property has about 300 feet of road frontage, and because of a ditch and an embankment, I have to mow the grass along the road with a push mower. I can tell nearly every time whether a vehicle coming by is driven by a male, or by a female. A man will drive well over the center line to give me plenty of space. A woman will give me only a foot or so of room as they drive by, if that. Some females don't allow any extra room at all as they drive by, coming only inches away from hitting me. I've made the same observation when getting mail from my mailbox on the other side of the road. (My comments are based on objective observation over the last 35 years, and not on any preconceived notion of prejudice.)

J Tiers
03-07-2011, 12:28 AM
Jerry I've heard that type of story sooooo many times before it gets a bit tiresome to hear to be honest.


However if you genuinely think it "serves anyone right" to be injured, regardless of what they're doing, then that possibly says a bit about you doesn't it!


Eh?

What?

I do NOT CARE if you are tired of it. Get used to it, and learn. I'll tell it as much as I please, because it is true. True of enough of teh "training brigade" that it may fairly be said of teh lot, around here at least.

It needs to be drilled into all of your heads that "training" does not exempt you from traffic laws nor physical laws....... if you are tired of hearing it, then teach the others not to act like that ans there will be no further problem.

I ride a bicycle for transportation, as well as exercise, and I don't want to be lumped in with the "race training a$$holes". Riding a bicycle means accepting certain limits with regard to rules of the road, here anyway, what happens over there in OZ does not concern me at all. What happens here does.

Not blocking faster traffic, that's one item..... but "clots" of training folks spread out across the lane(s) as they climb the long hill, very substantially slower than traffic...... and don't let the long line of cars pass them unless the drivers are satisfied to cross the double line and pass in oncoming lanes with no visibility.

obeying signals and signs as normal traffic, that's another, but they happily ride between the cars to the head of the line and then cross against the red..... THAT'S brilliant, eh? Can't stand to be slowed down at all, mustn't break cadence.......

You didn't get it at all..... Those guys are GOING TO get mowed down, they are asking for it by their behavior, and I can't do a thing about it.

I don't want to be the one whose vehicle gets all messy on account of it, but they way they behave, it could as easily be me they victimize as anyone else.

Anyway, What I was saying is that WHEN they get what their behavior is destined to result in, it would be a kind of poetic justice if they were just hauled out of the way and left to fend for themselves...... since they did it to themselves, as sure as pulling the trigger with a gun to their head.

I also said I would not do that, but motivated as much or more by a wish NOT to have their 'victim" (the one they picked out to run them over) get the blame.... I want to be able to state as a witness what a flaming a$$ the rider had been, and exonerate the driver.

many of those riders have apparently no sense, and some poor guy is gonna kill one and have to live with that.

Some riders are reasonable..... the rest must be lawyers , they drive worse than most, and probably ride worse too. Lawyers and doctors.

PeteF
03-07-2011, 12:58 AM
Dear Jerry,

Thank you for your well considered, balanced and fully thought through input into this area. Your blanket statement, in which you included me in the address, that since I train on a bicycle, I therefore ignore all road rules is a very reasonable conclusion, notwithstanding the fact that I specifically said that I don't knowingly break road rules. I thank you for "teaching" me that, and "drilling it into [our] heads".

Earlier I mentioned a woman I'd seen driving at high speed while talking on her phone, putting on her lipstick, while looking at herself in the mirror. She was driving a vehicle. Fresh with my new found wisdom I've now "learnt" from you, I'll use the same "Jerry-built-logic" to suggest that since you drive a vehicle you must also drive while talking on the phone, looking at yourself in the mirror, while applying your lipstick! Again, I thank you for sharing your "wisdom".

Since I'm now keen to return the favour, maybe sans the arrogant attitude to instruct you to "Get used to it and learn". I'll therefore simply make a suggestion. Please take a deep breath, walk away from your computer for 10 minutes, cool off a wee bit, then come back and re-read your own 2 posts on this topic.

Now if you can't see the irony of what you've just posted in a thread about "anger management" issues, then maybe it's true and you don't have a pulse.

Thanks for the laugh however.

Your Sincerely,

The Race Training A$$hole

PS I'm always keen to test my theories about the types of people who make these types of statements. What type of vehicle you drive Jerry, not a V8 "truck" by any chance?

A.K. Boomer
03-07-2011, 06:42 AM
Uhhh uhh-umm,,, in keeping with the original post,

People Zig ---- I Zag, for the most part that's just the way its always been although I do remember a time when I got upset along with the other driver but nowadays I do the opposite, when I see some stooge getting all red in the face and giving me the finger I search for the humor in it ---
it usually results in a very genuine and authentic deep down all out belly laugh and I do it right at him/her like im captivated and don't want to take my eye's off him/her for fear of missing something...

if it happens in the summer and the windows are down it really escalates things out of control in a fury - they cannot stand that someone could possibly not be taking them seriously --- the slight crimson color turns to a full on bright fire engine red accompanied with a plethora of freakish looking facial and forehead veins that do nothing but make me laugh all the harder,
This cycle can repeat itself over and over till they finally realize that they really are providing me with some very high quality entertainment, then finally they either shake their heads and move on or sometimes iv finally see the look of fear in their faces - kinda like I might be insane - these are the guys who are much more in touch with reality because if someone really tried to confront me while I was in the middle of a good belly laugh I don't know what I would be capable of - really,,,
That's just how I "roll"...
:D

John Stevenson
03-07-2011, 08:54 AM
Dear Jerry,



Earlier I mentioned a woman I'd seen driving at high speed while talking on her phone, putting on her lipstick, while looking at herself in the mirror. She was driving a vehicle. Fresh with my new found wisdom I've now "learnt" from you, I'll use the same "Jerry-built-logic" to suggest that since you drive a vehicle you must also drive while talking on the phone, looking at yourself in the mirror, while applying your lipstick!

What colour lipstick ? I think we need a new post on this. The salmon pink one looks terrible on me, shows all the late night binge drinking blotches and doesn't even taste like salmon.

Do they do a smoky bacon lipstick ?

TRX
03-07-2011, 10:05 AM
The idiot factor here went up sharply about four years ago, when it seemed that suddenly a huge percentage of the population forgot what red lights and stop signs are for. At first I blamed it on illegal aliens, until I looked closer and saw all demographics seems to be evenly represented.

At first I regretted selling my F100 with the brush bars on the front. Then I (much more regretfully) hung up my crash helmet. One of the idiots already got me once, which could have been written off as a statistical fluke, but when it got to the point where I felt edgy driving a 3500-pound station wagon, it was time to do my riding a quarter mile at a time.

Still, idiots are like air. They're all around us, no need to get my blood pressure up. Unfortunately a couple of friends of mine have road rage bad. To the point where I won't ride with one any more, and I've wondered if the other was going to have a cerebral hemorrhage behind the wheel someway.


I made the deliberate decision to move my attitude on life from "intense" to "mellow" about 20 years ago. Sometimes it's a bit hard to do, but in the long run it has saved me a lot of stress. I treat the idiots on the road as moving obstacles, like some real-world Asteroids game, and in traffic.

Maintaining mellow is assisted by my little MP3 player that rides in my short pocket. I have some Koss noise-damping earplugs, and they work well enough to listen while running the milling machine or lathe. I queue up an audiobook to relieve the boredom of cranking handles or deburring, and it goes with me everywhere. Standing in line at the DMV to be abused by some mindless drone, I probably look like some sort of psychotic while I'm listening to a Terry Pratchett book... after dropping two wheels off on the shoulder of Interstate 40 late one night, I have determined that listening to Pratchett while driving may not be a good idea, at least for me.

J Tiers
03-07-2011, 10:11 AM
What colour lipstick ? I think we need a new post on this. The salmon pink one looks terrible on me, shows all the late night binge drinking blotches and doesn't even taste like salmon.

Do they do a smoky bacon lipstick ?


I'm not even going to ask what "Pete" has on HIS "barbie" :D


Very typical "defense by aggressive offense" on the part of a 'race training type" who (as is completely usual and expected) won't admit that his colleagues often do EXACTLY what I describe, and has missed the point that I refer to those over HERE..... I don't know him, but he does seem to have anger management issues..... if not riding issues.

What would make ME angry in traffic is if a "race training type" OR some complete bozo of a driver manages to involve me in an accident that I can't avoid, by their idiotic behavior.

or when the idiotic behavior of the "race training types" over here causes someone who can't manage anger to take it out on me, or some other bicyclist who is doing no harm. it has happened a few times already.

In the interest of equal time... motorcyclists can be stupid also. as can 4 wheel drivers.

3 guys on motorcycles, on a local highway..... one in each lane.... going for blocks at 60 mph, on rear wheel only (wheelie). One veered off and almost hit teh center divider, which would have put the idiot and his bike right under my wheels. He managed to avoid it, but I suspect he scratched his chrome on the divider.....

Oh,. Pete..... truck yes...... 4 cylinder S10..... would fit in the bed of some of the ones you refer to......

Sorry I couldn't be just what you wanted to see me as...... but not VERY sorry.:rolleyes:

derekm
03-07-2011, 04:11 PM
road rage -

I was on the bike (a sports bike) an a gap opened in the traffic to go down the slip road on the m4 just big enough for my bike between the car in front and the kerb so I accelerated to the gap and then had to swerve and jump immediately on brakes as someone in a 4x4 decided to use the pavement (sidewalk) and the gap to over take me at speed on the inside forcing me into the cars in front. He came very very close (biker close not car close) to knocking me off. If i was a less experienced biker he would either have hitme or I would hit the other cars
Idiocy, bad driving, I can take that no problem, everyone makes mistakes, has an off day, but this time I felt I had had an attempt on my life. So before this 4x4 can make it to the M4 proper I had it stopped on the side of the road, I politely explained what he had done was not illegal but had come within a small margin of terminating my life. The hirsute driver blustered "I Havent got time for this" to which I replied "Neither have I" and left.

A few miles down the road I thought "I 've seen him before" But couldnt place where. A few days later I saw him on TV, apparently he was a comedian and latterly is an actor... He did'nt seem very funny to me. he still doesnt.

Black_Moons
03-07-2011, 04:39 PM
Boomer: Awsome post.

I gotta say as a motor(ised) *bicycle* rider... I have pertty much given up the roads, Except in places where its extreamly inconvient to ride on the sidewalk (no sidewalk, or wayyy to many people)

Basicly, all but the very main drag where its 2 lane 1 way traffic (And businesses on each side) in my town, I stick to the sidewalk.
Peds all give me smiles, Because I slow RIGHT down to about jogging speed to pass then, often going way off onto the grass (Even though I did pick up some dog crap on my tires one day) And most of the time in my city its about 1 ped every 200 feet when its a busy road, And none if you are actualy going anywhere.

1st Reasons why: People trying to pass me, Up hill, in a sh!t box with less HP then my bicycle, With an oncomming bus in the other lane... Thankfuly I have the sense to get the hell outta the way before he decides to correct his 'mistake' by murdering me, insted of hiting the bus head on or slowing down to tuck behind me like a man.

2nd reason why: comming up to a stop light on a hill. 3 cars infront of me, Im about 5 feet behind the car infront of me, traffic is doing about 15kph and slowing because of the red light.
Guy in giant truck sneaks up beside me.. And decides to change lanes.. Into my lane.. Without signaling.... AS HES BESIDE ME! So I have to slam on the brakes just before he smashs me into the steel guard rail on the (Train track) overpass.

3rd reason why: Going down 2 lane road, one way only, main drag of city, lots of slow traffic, Speed limit 50kph, Im doing 45kph~ as most people do on this road, Guy passes in left lane doing 55kph. No problem! Thats why they have 2 lanes.. Happy day for him untill... Second guy passes BOTH of us driving down the center line, doing 60kph+! And im riding in the left of my lane to avoid this exact stupid behavior. Could'nt of waited 10 seconds in the left lane to pass me, switch lanes and pass the other dude who was allready speeding?

These 3 reasons all happened within a WEEK.

So yea, Sticken to the sidewalk. Cop wants to fine me? Go ahead. Seen about 20 of em so far and have not gotten one fine. I obey the laws of physics, Not the made up laws of man. And those laws say verus cars, I loose every time! Verus humans... Well, I got a serious apology to make!

And even if I did get a fine, Its still cheaper then a hospital stay (or death) from dealing with you crazyer then batsh!t car drivers that try and kill me at every turn!

The Artful Bodger
03-07-2011, 05:38 PM
I cycle commuted for a decade or so, open road and city streets etc. Plenty of a'holes driving on NZ roads.

Simple policy for a bicycle rider, act like a vehicle, if there is no room for someone to safely overtake then claim the whole lane, if you hug the kerb you will be hit bit a parked car opening a door, tipped on your head by a drainage grate or squished against the rail by an overtaking motor vehicle.

Obey all traffic signs and signals, pull over to let faster traffic past at every safe opportunity. That last one is actually a road law in this country that applies to all slow vehicles, bicycles, combine harvesters and retirees with a 25' caravan behind a HQ Holden gasping up the Rimutakas.

PeteF
03-07-2011, 05:52 PM
What colour lipstick ? I think we need a new post on this. The salmon pink one looks terrible on me, shows all the late night binge drinking blotches and doesn't even taste like salmon.

Do they do a smoky bacon lipstick ?

Not sure John, maybe Jerry can enlighten us. Possibly red to match the usual colour of his face as yet another broad-brush generalisation about groups who don't happen to wear the same shoe size as his spews forth. That this particular diatribe should be on an anger management thread is still the funniest thing I've seen in a while! Still, at least the usual target, "Commie Chinese", got a rest for 24 hours. ;)

Signed,

The (apparenlty) World Representative of all Cyclists ... especially the "Race Training Types"

PS Yeah these days I'm with some of the posters above. When I'm riding in the cycling lane, abiding by the road rules as I always do, and get yelled at to "get off the road" (despite not actually being on it!), spat at, swerved at, have beer or drink bottles thrown at me, have cars swerve in front and slam on the brakes to try to cause me to crash, come stupidly close to "teach me a lesson" (never quite worked out what that "lesson" is, maybe Jerry could again "teach" me), have doors flown open in front of me, have vehicles pull along side or very slightly in front and then turn down a side street, or God knows what other deliberate attempts to actually harm me or at the very least spoil my day, never mind the even more regular dumb-ass things people accidentally do that I regularly endure for being a "race training type", my reaction more often than not is to smile and wave like I've just seen my long-lost sister! Not the reaction they're after. Maybe I should apply more Jerry-built-logic and at the next set of traffic lights wander up to one of the "colleagues" of these "car driving types" who happen to be randomly stopped there and launch into a diatribe about what his/her "colleague" has just done :D

The bottom line, as I said above, there are morons everywhere, and mode of transport seems immaterial, despite some being more visible by their idiotic behaviour than others.

garagemark
03-07-2011, 06:23 PM
Well, it seem like, after reading [most of] this whole thread, I have come to the conclusion that we are ALL either idiots, fools, stupid, angry, dumb, cranky, nuts or any of a host of other verbs. We drivers do dumb stuff, we cyclists do dumb stuff, and we pedestrians do dumb stuff.

We are all just plain dumb depending on what form of transportation we choose. And it's only taken 70 posts for me to realize this.

dalee100
03-07-2011, 06:31 PM
The bottom line, as I said above, there are morons everywhere, and mode of transport seems immaterial, despite some being more visible by their idiotic behaviour than others.

Hi,

That's so true. I gave up on getting worked up about other peoples perceived driving skills. If I hadn't, I would have either stroked out long ago or I would have screwed up and gotten killed.

Heck, I got an ambulance with lights, sirens and no speed limit with them on. You'd think we could get some respect. It's amazing how few drivers actually use their rear view mirrors anymore. And are so wrapped up in their cell phone they don't hear us right on their bumper. I have gone from the back of my ambulance to being stopped by the dash in the driver's compartment.

But, I just have to let what ever happens pass. It does no good to get excited.

Arcane
03-07-2011, 06:37 PM
Since bicycles were mentioned earlier in this thread...

http://www.gadling.com/2011/03/03/downhill-bike-race-in-chile-is-insanity-at-its-finest/?icid=maing|main5|dl11|sec3_lnk1|48546

rohart
03-07-2011, 06:50 PM
TRX: You begin your post with a statement that traffic behaviour changed 'here' recently. Where is here ?

Please, if anyone refers to their local area, they should either have it in their profile, or state it explicitly. Otherwise we're all left floundering in frustration.

We want to agree, or to disagree. One or the other ! Arrgh !!!

BadDog
03-07-2011, 09:58 PM
Since this has derailed completely into a "bicyclist issues" thread, I have a question. In N Phoenix we have LOTS of roads with dedicated bicycle lanes on each side of the road. These are EASILY large enough for a rider and gear to remain well clear of the vehicle lanes, and two competent riders could even remain side-by-side should they choose to excise even a moderate amount of skill.

Most of the typical folks (that being kids, family types out for a ride, even some mountain bikers headed to trails, etc) seem to have no trouble with the mental processing needed to navigate and use these bike lanes. But, the road-bike idiots (I assume the same referred to by JTiers as "race training") in their ridiculous outfits seem to have difficulty with this concept.

Instead, they almost invariably do one of two things.

Most seem to ride solo, and will INVARIABLY ride ON the line so that a cage bigger than a Smart Car (SiC) has to enter the oncoming lane to pass safely. They leave 5+ feet of open asphalt on their right and insist on interfering with vehicle traffic. And yes, I ride a motorcycle and I'm familiar with the concept of "guarding your lane". I practice that too, but I do so by keeping my entire bike completely within MY lane, not by riding on the line with half or more of my bike in the next lane!

The second type ride in packs, usually several wide, and often NONE in the bike lane, and I've had to move INTO the bike lane to safely pass while meeting them from the other direction.

And as others have noted, I have been forced to pile on the brakes while a bicyclist (usually road bike) blasts through stop or yield without so much as a glance, and then they have the nerve to give me the finger for saving their worthless life. The neighborhood I recently left was a favorite for bicyclists of all types due to proximity to mountain preserves and trails. Luckily the neighborhood containing new house doesn't seem to have that particular problem, though it has even more mountain preserve around it...

Black_Moons
03-07-2011, 10:16 PM
Motors definately solve a lot of this biker attitude problem.
When you make 100mpg, And it costs you more in food to pedal then it does in gasoline.. Stoping for things like stop signs/red lights isent so much a problem anymore!
Infact, when doing 60kph on a cold day, I like the red lights, they give me a chance to warm my fingers up :)

aboard_epsilon
03-07-2011, 10:37 PM
We will all be on bikes soon .weather bicycles or very small motorcycles.

What with what's happening in the middle east ..
forecast here is for petrol to hit 2 a litre soon.

In my opinion ..those dictators in those countries were the only people who could control them ..
what you're going to get soon is wars between the tribes over whose taking control..for years and years .

When the fuel price goes up ..the bikes will become commodities and will double or triple in price ...so buy one now whilst you have the chance ..

About 2 years ago here ..when the fuel prices started to rise ..20 year old Honda cubs were selling on ebay for 700 plus..when the year before they were about 75 - 100

its going mad again this week .......as in the last two weeks fuel has risen here, more than 10 pence a litre

diesel at my local is 1.42 a litre...soon people will be getting there fuel tanks punctured ..cause thats the way they steal fuel these days.

already there is a lot of theft of central heating fuel .

http://motors.shop.ebay.co.uk/Cars-Motorcycles-Vehicles-/9800/i.html?_nkw=honda+cub&_catref=1&_dmpt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&_fln=1&_sac=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m282

have fun

all the best.markj

PeteF
03-07-2011, 11:37 PM
As I said to Jerry earlier, I am SOOOoooo over hearing this "argument" that it makes me wonder why I'm even bothering to read it, never mind commenting. But since I'm already in this far, pffft why not continue, for all the good it does anyway :rolleyes:

The whole OT discussion on cyclists on roads could easily be a reasonable discussion where all participants were more aware of the needs, specifics, and angst of the other road users. Instead of presenting what could easily be reasonable points, some simply give themselves away as nothing more than small-minded rednecks by their use of emotive language to describe others; "race training types", "road bike idiots", "almost invariably do one of two [and apparently only two] things ...". WTF? :confused: The last time I was in at work I literally had a guy come up to me, he seemed like a nice enough chap and after a brief discussion, just small talk, he commented that I looked fit. I said yes I do a lot of cycling, but aren't as fit as I'd like to be. His response? Well after a bit of a pause, and I quote, "Oh ... I HATE cyclists!". I kid you not! What do you say to a moronic attitude like that? (Well actually I smiled and said, "oh that's ok. I hate ALL [insert his job title here]". The bottom line is that the minds of people like this are made up and all they ever see in their eyes are the exceptions to normal, reasonable behaviour displayed by the majority of cyclists, that I see around the world anyway. People like this don't ask questions to get answers, they ask to vent their spleen at yet another minority group they hate. It's a complete mystery to me why, in this instance, they'd choose a BB on machining to vent their spleen, and THEN a thread where the general consensus was we should all learn to be just a little more tolerant of other's behaviour as there are morons everywhere!

However a few comments in the hope that SOME good may come out of this. As I said there are those here who don't want to hear and there's no hope for them. I'll leave the angry little men to go about their lives and address this to those somewhat more open minded. As I've said all along, I've heard the above story just so many times it's ridiculous. I have no idea what the situation is in some people's part of the world, but I have a very good idea in my part, and the story is identical, so it's pretty safe to presume that the circumstances around it are the same.

In my experience, there ARE some people who ride bicycles who habitually break the rules of the road. Jumping red lights, stop signs, riding the wrong way up a one-way street etc etc. Blatant disregard of the road rules. I spend a lot of time on my bike (indeed have literally just walked in from my usual 2 hr daily ride. I'm even still in my "race training type" kit Jerry!!) I have ridden all over the world, and I'm very comfortable to sit here and say people like the blatant disregarders are, in my experience, the exception and not the norm. I certainly won't have anything to do with that type of behaviour and if it's somebody I'm riding with will tell them as much.

What I see a HECK of a lot more of, and cop from motorists all the time, relates back to an ignorance of road rules and exceptions, as they relate to cyclists. The motorists gets angry about the perceived "breaking the law" by the cyclists, when in fact that was not the case at all. Here I need to be very careful, as people on this BB are from all over the world and the road rules vary from location to location. But many are pretty much universal, so please don't respond with "Oh well that's not the road rule here, and cyclists do XXXX", that would be a blatant disregard by the cyclist, so see above.

With that in mind some of the examples and arguments "presented" to me:
"Get on the footpath (sidewalk), you shouldn't be on the road!" (A favourite redneck chant to be yelled from some POS "truck"). In fact where I live (and indeed most states in Australia, it would be illegal for me to ride my bicycle on a footpath unless I was under 12, or accompanying a child under 12).
"You shouldn't be on the road, you don't pay rego". In fact the majority of vehicle "registration" paid by motorists in Australia goes towards third party insurance, and none of it goes towards road maintenance which comes from General Revenue.
"You aren't allowed to ride 2 abreast, you take up the whole lane illegally". In fact completely wrong, it's quite legal to ride 2 abreast in ALL states of Australia. Many times myself and the people I ride with choose not to as a courtesy to other road users, but if we did it would be perfectly legal.
"You can't do the minimum speed, so shouldn't be on the road". In fact there is no "minimum" road speed in Australia, and the law states you shouldn't obstruct traffic by deliberately driving your vehicle at an unusually slow speed. It's a grey area, but the example they provide in the road rules would be if you were driving a regular road car at 20 kph in an 80 kph zone you would be deemed illegally obstructing traffic. However if your vehicle is roadworthy and simply CAN'T go any faster then there is no minimum limit. Indeed I see that all the time with the mobile cranes that typically get around at dawn, the same time I do, going to job sites, as they have poor power-to-weight and pretty much match cyclists speeds, especially up hills.
"You ride to the front of the the traffic at traffic lights then we all have to overtake you again, that's illegal". In fact that's perfectly legal in all states of Australia, but personally not something I do as I feel it's disrespectful to other road users. I'll just sit back in the line as if I were in a car (well unless it's a traffic jam I can simply ride around, and that happens quite frequently).
"You veer out of the cycling lane, and that's illegal". In fact there are many times cars parked either in, or adjacent to, the cycle lane and I need to give them enough clearance so that if they open their door without looking (ie typical), I won't get "doored". I try to look through the car as I'm approaching it and if there's nobody in side will allow less room, but that's a bit hairy for me as there could be somebody in there i just haven't seen.

I could go on about many other exemptions to the road rules as they apply to cyclists, but as I have said it's largely pointless as they vary from location to location. However hopefully the point was made, and just because "I've been driving for xx years" doesn't mean everyone is aware of all the road rules.

The bottom line is that we should ALL try to show a little more courtesy to others on the road. As I indicated above, there are many instances where I am quite legally within my right to ride in a certain manner, but to do so would inconvenience others, and so i don't. By the same token, is it REALLY that big an effort to veer out of your way a few metres to give a cyclists room, even if he's not riding in the cycle lane despite there being no apparent reason not to? Is your life REALLY so busy that you can't stand the thought of sitting behind a group of cyclist climbing a hill, and waiting the few minutes it would take until a safe opportunity to pass. WOW, you REALLY must be an important guy then ;)

It's interesting to contrast the behaviour of motorists towards cyclists when I'm in Europe. An area with FAR greater population density than Australia. Almost without exception the motorists there have absolutely no issue with cyclists on the road even the seemingly much despised "race training types" and view them as simply another road user. The only thing I've ever heard yelled from a car toward me there has been encouragement as the person seems the pained look on my face when I'm only 1/2 way up the 10,000 ft pass!!!

Hopefully a few things to consider so we can all just get on with our lives without all the anger some seem intent on inflicting on others.

Pete

PeteF
03-08-2011, 12:28 AM
A little more On Topic, but maybe relevant to those who think a bit of Road Rage is ok, consider those around you.

About a year ago I was cycling down a cycle lane as a car slowly passes me. The cycle lane temporarily ended when it came to a roundabout so I moved back behind the car, we went through the roundabout, and then I moved back into the continuing cycle lane. With that however the car that passed me slammed on his brakes, cut across in front of me and stops. I simply move out into the road and go around him, however the guy is yelling abuse at me you wouldn't believe. I just gave him a quizzical look and kept riding. No gesturing or response from me, I genuinely had no idea what was going on. So he takes off in a squeal of tires, pulls up next to me (I'm back in the cycle lane), and continues with the abuse. I just look at him and ask what is his problem? And keep riding. So he get's in front, slams on his brakes and this cycle continued several times. I still to this day don't know what the problem was, but THINK it was because he had to slow right down for the roundabout, but I can ride straight, it's barely a bend in the road on a bike. So knowing there was a bike lane on the other side I went through quite quickly and thereby moved up rapidly behind him. As cars who were following behind all this finally got to pass us, we looked at each other, literally shrugged our shoulders at each other, and everyone went about their day.

The irony of the situation is that this road leads to a National Park and the guy in the car was clearly going out for a "relaxing day" with his wife and 2 children who were also in the car.

3 Things stood out about the event I'll probably never forget. Firstly was that I STILL don't know what it was actually all about. If, and a big IF it was because I got too close to the rear of his vehicle (in Australia the minimum distance between a vehicle and a bicycle is 2 m, but I was certainly much more than that), but IF I got too close to him and hit him from behind what happens? Well firstly he would get some minor scuff mark on his bumper from my front tyre, I would be at fault and have to pay the damages ... and I would also be the one in hospital, not him.

The second thing was the look of anger in his eyes. I have never seen that look from another human being in my life and hope I never see it again! He was ready to literally kill me; the look said it all.

However the third thing, and point of this post, was to look back into the rear seat of his vehicle and see the look of sheer terror from his young children. I have never heard such terrified screams from children. I never want to hear them again either! I'm not exaggerating to say it was as if some guy was walking around with an axe taking people's heads off, the poor children were that scared of the state their father was in, and the screaming at him from his wife.

So next time you think "venting" sounds like a good idea, think about those around you. It's just not worth it!

Pete

x39
03-08-2011, 12:29 AM
. It's amazing how few drivers actually use their rear view mirrors anymore. And are so wrapped up in their cell phone they don't hear us right on their bumper.
Yes, and it seems the turn signal has become a quaint vestige of the past as well, due in large part to people holding the phone with one hand and "driving" with the other.

J Tiers
03-08-2011, 12:37 AM
That's a delightful and very open-minded response......:rolleyes:

Pete, look in the mirror when you feel like categorizing people who DARE to 'call out" the obnoxious behavior of some "race training types" as "rednecks" and "small minded", etc.

You are apparently looking for people to 'go off" on, and "those rednecks" who dare to suggest that a substantial fraction of the "suited-up and riding a race bike" folks act like freaking idiots are a good target for you.

I notice that virtually NOBODY else does the silly things done by people in "race suits". The rest of the cycling population is aware of their limits and the law.

Now, there are plenty of others who deserve mention.....in cars, on motorcycles, and in large pickup trucks, particularly. The roads are full of idjits putting on makeup, phoning, texting, eating breakfast, or just driving badly. often at 60+ mph, and usually, but not always, at that 60 mph on designated highways.

I have collected a repertoire of rude gestures from diverse obscure cultures. it enables me to express myself in a harmless manner without the targets being aware they have been offered a deadly insult..... I get the expression, and the satisfaction that the the idiots don't have a clue, and I needn't get upset in doing it.... I prefer not to get in fights... they take time, and they foul up your clothes.

Your methods may vary.....

PeteF
03-08-2011, 12:56 AM
That's a delightful and very open-minded response....

Thanks Jerry!

Yes, my "method" involves, as I mentioned, smiling and waving at them. Then going about my life happy that I'm not the type of person who needs to "collect a repertoire" of redneck rude gestures in order to make myself feel better.

BTW the "race suits" are actually called jerseys Jerry :rolleyes:

J Tiers
03-08-2011, 01:09 AM
BTW the "race suits" are actually called jerseys Jerry :rolleyes:

I was already aware that the jersey covered an a$$, but I thought that the actual "a$$-covering" part of the costume had a different name, and was known as "shorts"not a "jersey"..... Thank you for correcting me on that! Apparently a "jersey" is the whole thing, related to a "cat suit" only smaller?:D

No matter, they are "suited up"..... and we all know what happens when the "suits" arrive...... it often does not "suit" anyone very well, as in this case.

I think many of the others who drive badly and contribute to road rage are also in "suits", usually found in "Bimmers" and "Daimlers", with the occasional "Outie". They tend to drive like they own the road, which in some cases, they may, depending on what politicians they 'sponsor".

However, they very rarely dart across against the red light. Apparently they value their own skin more than those other 'suits".

The Artful Bodger
03-08-2011, 02:14 AM
I am not sure why drivers are so upset about cyclists running red lights. It is never the drivers on the 'go' who complain as cyclists for their own preservation avoid getting in their way instead it is always the drivers waiting at the red who get so uptight about this.

Jealous I presume....:rolleyes:

PeteF
03-08-2011, 02:22 AM
Well exactly. Sadly it's the redneck mentality of trying to drag those around them down to their own level. It's often a different topic, but the same names each time unremarkably enough.

I meant to mention AB, I noticed in Auckland the other day signs up asking motorists to leave 1.5 m between between their vehicles and cyclists. This side of the Tasman we're happy to ask for 1 m and often don't get it! That extra 0.5 m sure would be nice though! The Kiwis beat the Aussies yet again ;)

Pete

BadDog
03-08-2011, 02:23 AM
"almost invariably do one of two [and apparently only two] things ...". WTF? :confused:
Not too hard to understand, but I'll rephrase. These are 2 broad categories of bad behavior that I witness frequently. Combined they make up something like 80% of my experiences with problematic cyclists, and all my combined problematic experiences are attributed roughly 75% to "road" bikes being ridden specifically by the spandex shorts and "sponsor" style shirt riders wearing their stream lined plastic helms. These are my experiences, sorry (or rather, too bad...) if that touches a nerve. A motorist, who pays taxes for tags and has to have a license plus insurance to be on the road legally, would be fined and eventually loose that privilege if they behaved similarly. But for some reason, it is acceptable for bicyclists? I bet that if they started getting tickets and had a license to loose they would learn to at least attempt to be considerate.

I also made specific mention of all the normal cyclists who coexist easily within the rules. Was that not convenient, and so ignored? It's just one particularly category that I (and obviously others) see causing problems consistently, and I named them the best way I could. Again, too bad if that strikes a nerve.

I'm also fairly sure I've never commented on this topic before, so there is another of your overly broad strokes that you seem so incensed about in others. Does that put you in your own hot-head redneck category?

I ride a bike, but stay in the lanes and observe the law. I ride a motorcycle, and I stay in the proper lanes and obey the law. In both cases, I have to deal with ignorant, distracted, and downright inept drivers who threaten my life on a daily basis. But that does not excuse the behavior I witness all too often...

PeteF
03-08-2011, 02:47 AM
A motorist, who pays taxes for tags and has to have a license plus insurance to be on the road legally, would be fined and eventually loose that privilege if they behaved similarly. But for some reason, it is acceptable for bicyclists? I bet that if they started getting tickets and had a license to loose they would learn to at least attempt to be considerate.


Sorry to blow your theory, but actually HERE that's precisely the way it works. If you're caught doing something illegal on your bicycle, you are fined and have demerit points taken off your DRIVERS licence. Certainly doesn't stop the rogue cyclists.

Incidentally no nerve has been touched, I got beyond that years ago. I'm still amazed however at the number of people who are willing to openly display their ignorance of how things actually work, in contrast to how they think it works or should work. I ALSO have insurance that covers me while I'm on my bike, precisely the same as my insurance when I'm driving my car. Next! :rolleyes:

mike4
03-08-2011, 02:51 AM
Not too hard to understand, but I'll rephrase. These are 2 broad categories of bad behavior that I witness frequently. Combined they make up something like 80% of my experiences with problematic cyclists, and all my combined problematic experiences are attributed roughly 75% to "road" bikes being ridden specifically by the spandex shorts and "sponsor" style shirt riders wearing their stream lined plastic helms. These are my experiences, sorry (or rather, too bad...) if that touches a nerve. A motorist, who pays taxes for tags and has to have a license plus insurance to be on the road legally, would be fined and eventually loose that privilege if they behaved similarly. But for some reason, it is acceptable for bicyclists? I bet that if they started getting tickets and had a license to loose they would learn to at least attempt to be considerate.

I also made specific mention of all the normal cyclists who coexist easily within the rules. Was that not convenient, and so ignored? It's just one particularly category that I (and obviously others) see causing problems consistently, and I named them the best way I could. Again, too bad if that strikes a nerve.

I'm also fairly sure I've never commented on this topic before, so there is another of your overly broad strokes that you seem so incensed about in others. Does that put you in your own hot-head redneck category?

I ride a bike, but stay in the lanes and observe the law. I ride a motorcycle, and I stay in the proper lanes and obey the law. In both cases, I have to deal with ignorant, distracted, and downright inept drivers who threaten my life on a daily basis. But that does not excuse the behavior I witness all too often...
I have read most of the previous posts with interest as I drive long distances for work and when out on the open road dont have too many problems , usually people who are unfamiliar with the area or conditions.

Its in the towns and cities where the problems are more common and dangerous, many are just selfish and ignorant , others as some have stated just act as though they have exclusive rights to the stretch of road that they wish to use.
And then there are some cyclists who actually do use the roads for training and really do give you the evil eye when you pass them as they are only travelling at 35klms/h in a 60 zone and they dont care if you just want to go about your daily work without being forced to brake and tootle along behind these people , My answer to them is why not provide bikeways which are physically seperated from roadways , both sides of the argument would then have some satisfaction .

I used to ride a bike when younger ,( going to and from school) but now would never bother as its far too slow and causes frustration for motorists .So been there done that , before the criticism starts.

Michael

boslab
03-08-2011, 03:00 AM
nowt quite as humbling as giving a guy the finger only to end up beside him at the lights to have a 6'10" monster with hands like bunches of bananas get out and beat the **** out of you, it will cure road rage....guaranteed
mark

PeteF
03-08-2011, 03:03 AM
Mike I couldn't agree more, cycle lanes are they key. Separate the two types of vehicles so they're needing to share the same space. Indeed my wife and I bought the house we're in specifically to give access to cycling routes in National Parks or with Cycling lanes. Unfortunately the introduction of cycling lanes doesn't impress the rednecks who then complain they could have even wider roads if it weren't for the cycling lane! Indeed one route I ride on often has a section where they resealed it and when remarking it actually took out the cycling lane (despite the number of cyclists using it, especially on weekends). It's not heavily trafficked as there's a major freeway right next to it and is the old road before the freeway was put in. Nevertheless quite a few cars use it on weekends, so now have an absurdly wide lane in which to drive, while the cyclists are then forced to share that space. All for the sake of a simple line on the road most people respect!

J Tiers
03-08-2011, 10:11 AM
Cycling lanes are great....... sometimes. However, they often have more hazards than the regular road area.

The cycling lanes here are usually almost as wide as the handlebars on a non-racing bicycle.

The cycling lanes here often are marked on streets for several miles, and then inexplicably stop, with no apparent reason. Or they right lead up to a bridge, and then stop, with no pedestrian path or other way to proceed other than in traffic.

The cycling lanes here are of course on the edge of the road, commonly called the "shoulder", which is ALSO where the large stormwater drains are located. The drain grates usually are as wide as the cycling lane, and *most* of them have had at least rough pieces of 'rebar" welded across them to stop bicycle tires from completely falling between the bars, which of course are parallel to the road. The rebar is usually at spacings of no more than a half meter, which gives you a heck of a bump as you ride over them...... (some have been replaced with less lethal ones, I admit that)

The cycling lanes are generally used as added roadway by those driving large 'dually" trucks, which generally also have large mirrors sticking out a half meter or so at exactly the right height to give the cyclist a good hard hit on the back of the neck, with predictable results.

And, of course, since they are on the side of the road, they collect all teh trash that roads get..... sticks stones, sand, gravel, pieces of metal, nails, glass, tree limbs, etc.

So much for cycling lanes as seen in the US, or at least as seen around here. Can't blame cyclists, "race training types" or others, for not wanting, or being ABLE to stay inside them.

One CAN expect the cyclist to obey the general rules of the road, to not dart across against red lights, etc.

The "excuse" of "self preservation" does not work at all..... that is the same sort of logical inconsistency as "the beatings will continue until morale improves"..... or "I'll stop pouring gasoline when this darn fire goes out".

The main reason for resentment against cyclists IS the disregard of all rules of the road. That and blocking traffic by riding in 'clots" right across the whole road.... no doubt also for self preservation, but a totally counterproductive assertion of "rights".

The concept of assessing points against the driver's license for cycling vio;lations is an excellent idea, but likely would not be very popular with the new set of "tea party rednecks" we seem to have now in the legislatures.

it might have some effect of removing the "need" for the aggressive car drivers ro be the 'enforcers"......

BadDog
03-08-2011, 11:49 AM
Sorry to blow your theory, but actually HERE that's precisely the way it works. If you're caught doing something illegal on your bicycle, you are fined and have demerit points taken off your DRIVERS licence. Certainly doesn't stop the rogue cyclists.

Incidentally no nerve has been touched, I got beyond that years ago. I'm still amazed however at the number of people who are willing to openly display their ignorance of how things actually work, in contrast to how they think it works or should work. I ALSO have insurance that covers me while I'm on my bike, precisely the same as my insurance when I'm driving my car. Next! :rolleyes:
Maybe there, but not here in the US. And since I haven't made any comment about what happens there, your comment has no direct relevance to my observation (not a theory) or comments. However, perhaps that difference has changed YOUR experience and is part of why you are so convinced that nobody could possibly be experiencing this problem? Then again, you seem to believe yourself to be omniscient such that nobody anywhere in the world could be having a valid problem with cyclists if you don't agree. You don't believe there to be a problem, so you just label everyone who disagrees a "redneck" or some other attempt to belittle or disparage.

As to "got beyond that years ago", your responses would seem to indicate otherwise.

And J, here we have rather nice wide bike lanes without storm drains and such. Yet many still seem unwilling to use them.

Oh well, enough of this waste of time...

Black_Moons
03-08-2011, 02:58 PM
My answer to them is why not provide bikeways which are physically seperated from roadways , both sides of the argument would then have some satisfaction .
Michael

Around here they are called sidewalks.. In one area, theres actualy a bike path next to the sidewalk!
Joy of joy.. Well, It would be joy if they did'nt put a 8' tall bush every 40 feet that makes you swirve around it.. a bush, Just big enough to make it a blind corner every 40 feet for cyclists traveling the other direction to crash into eachother... While the sidewalk itself is straight and clear. Go figure.

Seriously though, Raised sidewalks are the best for biking on.. Just about nobody actualy WALKS on them, So why not ride on em. I consider them the 'slow' roads. And you think being in a car slowing down for bikes suck?
well, Being in a bike slowing down for people sucks more, Because theres (usally, Except for me..) no motor to accelerate back up to speed afterwards! Still nicer then dealing with the crazys on the road, And bikes going opposite directions can usally pass eachother at a reasonable speed as long as theres no lamp posts making the sidewalk skinny where they pass.

No idea why its illegal in some areas, or why riders resist going on the sidewalk in areas of light foot traffic (And areas of heavy foot traffic often have heavy slow car traffic doing bike speeds)

The raised sidewalk also helps keep it dryer, And free of debrie (Except for !@$#%!@ teenagers and rednecks smashing beer bottles on the road! If I ever see one... Grrr... boils my blood), And free of oil... Only downside is snow gets compacted into a very rough textured ice.

And well, Even when passing people at high speed, theres often some grass next to the sidewalk to pass people at high speed if you must. Or you can do a shoulder check and move onto the road and back onto the sidewalk next driveway. Can't pass people safely at speed? Tough luck! slow the hell down.

Trust me on this, Peds are much more friendly about sharing the sidewalk then cars are about sharing the road. And you can go any speed you want on the sidewalk. 5kph. 15kph. 25kph, 50kph, Whatever! Nobody cares.

Gotta admit about the bridges and hiways though.... Localy theres a bridge, Nice sidewalk/bike path leading up to it... Then theres a 2' concrete median that keeps you from actualy reaching the bridge sidewalk from the road sidewalk! Gotta get off and hump your bike over that.

Was going along a hiway.. nice wide 5' shoulder... ... 4'..3'...2'... 1'.. Hey where did my shoulder go! im in hiway traffic now this isent good! (Upcomming exit ramp)

The roadcrews could really do better...

Willy
03-08-2011, 03:09 PM
The roadcrews could really do better...

Write your local elected representives.

Ask them to please raise your taxes so that improvements can be done to accomodate bicyle lanes throughout your area.:D

PeteF
03-08-2011, 04:39 PM
Maybe there, but not here in the US. And since I haven't made any comment about what happens there, your comment has no direct relevance to my observation (not a theory) or comments.

Well actually THIS is what you said :rolleyes:


A motorist, who pays taxes for tags and has to have a license plus insurance to be on the road legally, would be fined and eventually loose that privilege if they behaved similarly. But for some reason, it is acceptable for bicyclists? I bet that if they started getting tickets and had a license to loose they would learn to at least attempt to be considerate.

That's not an observation. You have hypothesised about a scenario. That precise scenario you hypothesised about was introduced here. It hasn't changed rogue behaviour and there are still SOME people who choose to ride bicycles in "race training clothes" who are morons. Why? Because there are morons everywhere!

It's been an interesting observation that those who are all too willing to bundle "race training types" into one big tar brushed bunch of law breaking yahoos, suddenly don't think it at all fair when I deliberately use the same nonsense "logic" to label anyone who would conclude that a redneck. Apparently the myopic perspective can go one way, but not the other. Interesting :rolleyes:

As I mentioned above, (properly designed and constructed, Jerry) cycleways are an excellent solution. But what is really needed in my opinion is simply more consideration and courtesy towards other road users by everyone, regardless of their mode of transport. While in Sydney at least, motorist' behaviour toward cyclists is noticeably improving, and fortunately quite rapidly, overall however the incidence of road rage (toward all road users on a broader scale) in just as rapidly on the increase. One is left to wonder how a person would behave if the person who was going "too slow" in front of them was actually a good friend? Could I expect my accountant to see me cycling up the road and hurl a beer bottle at me? Would my wife spit on me as she past me going to the shops? (well maybe ;) ). Most however wouldn't treat a friend, associate, or family member the way they do a random motorists, yet in differentiating all they do is work up their own blood pressure and make a complete dick of themselves.

bob_s
03-08-2011, 04:55 PM
Let face it:
- anger management issues
- arguing in forums on the internet

are just signs of advancing male menopause.

Accept it and move on with life, as from here on there ain't a lot left!

PeteF
03-08-2011, 04:56 PM
Let face it:
- anger management issues
- arguing in forums on the internet

are just signs of advancing male menopause.


Ha ha, I like it! Meanwhile I'm still waiting for my voice to break :D

Willy
03-08-2011, 05:10 PM
......Most however wouldn't treat a friend, associate, or family member the way they do a random motorists....


Good point Pete.
Just as on internet discussion groups as an example, I've noticed that the automobile gives people a certain level of anonymity.
It' seem to be an intrinsic trait of human behavior, all we've learned about social interaction is tossed out the window when we loose accountability.

BadDog
03-08-2011, 05:19 PM
That's not an observation. You have hypothesised about a scenario. That precise scenario you hypothesised about was introduced here. It hasn't changed rogue behaviour and there are still SOME people who choose to ride bicycles in "race training clothes" who are morons. Why? Because there are morons everywhere!

Fair enough. I was talking about my observation, I forgot that part where I posed that statement.

But my point stands, and seems quite possibly supported by yours. It seems you have a very different view of the proportions involved in this problem relative to what I (and others) have observed HERE. Perhaps your laws had exactly the hypothesized effect? I agree completely that you will never remove 100% of the morons. But what gets me is the much more heavy weighting of the observed behavior in *MY* experience in my city and neighborhood among the indicated subset. If it were not for an seemingly significant imbalance of problems attributed to that group, I wouldn't even have posted at all. In your location, with the laws I "hypothesized" might make a difference, you, in fact, do note that there is that more reasonable/expected distribution. Sounds like a good first step in proving the hypothesis (though far from sufficient).

Oh, I didn't look back, but I believe I refereed to the more problematic group as those on "road bikes", not "race training", though the worst offenders do seem to most often be dressed as if that is the image they want to convey.

And still nobody has answered as to why the indicated subset so often insists on riding ON the line (assuming they don't ride in the vehicle lanes) when they have very nice paved bike lanes available.

Anyway, enjoy the train wreck. I had not intended to respond again, but felt compelled by your clarification of my oversight within my own comments.