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rmuell01
03-10-2011, 01:45 PM
this is a photo of my new Rockwell 15" vari 15-655 model 20.

more specifically, the drill chuck. the item just above the chuck itself looks like it might keep the chuck from being removed. at least I can't figure it out. I have looked for a slot where I might insert one of those triangular pieces of metal which would remove the chuck, but it doesn't seem to have one.

any help is appreciated in how I can remove the chuck?

thanks

Rob

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w243/rmuell01/IMG_0104.jpg

Highpower
03-10-2011, 01:49 PM
I have looked for a slot where I might insert one of those triangular pieces of metal which would remove the chuck, but it doesn't seem to have one.Did you lower the quill first, before looking?

Rustybolt
03-10-2011, 01:52 PM
Is that a collar above the chuck or the spindle?
If it's a collar it may be threaded.
Unscrew it to drop the chuck.

Josey
03-10-2011, 01:52 PM
What brand of chuck is it?

Joe

Josey
03-10-2011, 01:59 PM
It looks like the Jacobs 633C style. That should be a threaded collar right above the chuck. Use a spanner wrench and turn it to the left and the chuck should fall out.

Joe

Rosco-P
03-10-2011, 03:09 PM
I aggree. 33 male taper on the spindle. Collar on the chuck pulls the two together.

Lew Hartswick
03-10-2011, 06:28 PM
That isthe exact same as the one on my Sears drill press.
And yes the above is right. The thread is a righ hand one and a pin
"spanner" is what it atkes. Hold the pully and wack the end of the
spanner it'll come loose and just spin it off.
...lew...

DR
03-10-2011, 06:47 PM
Time flies doesn't it?

There was a time ALL higher quality 14"-15" drill presses used this type chuck mounting. Both Jacobs and Supreme made the chucks.

The chucks were 1/2" capacity and could be used for light milling/routing if needed without the worry of the chuck flying loose.

rmuell01
03-10-2011, 10:11 PM
it took a bar in the chuck and a pin spanner to get it loose. Now.........
the question remains, what does it take to replace this with the capability to install a morse taper? or do I have to put a collar on every chuck I want to install?

Rob

DR
03-10-2011, 11:05 PM
it took a bar in the chuck and a pin spanner to get it loose. Now.........
the question remains, what does it take to replace this with the capability to install a morse taper? or do I have to put a collar on every chuck I want to install?

Rob


Rockwell made a #2 Morse nose piece that fits in place of your collared chuck. Might be kind of hard to find though, it must be 30 years or so ago since they were offered. I have one, but would want a small fortune for it.

You can put any #33 taper chuck on your spindle, the locking collar is not necessary. AFAIK, the only one that's commonly available with the clocking collar is the Jacobs 633.

What is it you don't like about the current setup? In a small dp I consider what you have as the ultimate.

Rosco-P
03-11-2011, 08:19 AM
the question remains, what does it take to replace this with the capability to install a morse taper? Rob

Some Delta/Rockwell drills, could be ordered with a Morse Taper spindle instead of a 33 taper stub. There might be a parts manual on OWWM dot com for your drill which would determine that. You drill will only go to about 1/2-5/8" in steel. Its meant to be a light duty drillpress. If you want a larger capacity drill with a MT socket, better to buy a camelback style drill.

J Tiers
03-11-2011, 08:36 AM
What is it you don't like about the current setup? In a small dp I consider what you have as the ultimate.

I have looked at several drill presses with this setup. Walker-Turner and others.

In a number of cases, the taper on the end of the spindle was bent*, causing the chuck to wabble more-or-less severely and making the drill press essentially unusable aside from very basic hole-poking. Naturally in those cases the presses were otherwise among the better looking units, but the owners blew off the bend when pricing.

probably they were better looking because they hadn't been used much since the bend, and nobody could stand to scrap a "good" press that "just" needs a spindle. 'Course they never replaced it, and now 30 years later spindles are even less available.

Yes you can bend it back, maybe, but it will likely always wabble after that, you may just reduce it a bit.

Bent spindles are less common in morse socket types. The very thin "neck" often present just above the taper on the type with the JT ends is a weak point.

J

*
On-point example, right here.

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=46942

rmuell01
03-11-2011, 10:14 AM
Rockwell made a #2 Morse nose piece that fits in place of your collared chuck.

What is it you don't like about the current setup? In a small dp I consider what you have as the ultimate.

Oh I like the setup. NP with that. It's just that I've set up my shop for MT with my previous drill press. I have some other jacobs and Albrecht chucks I'd like to use w/o converting.

Rob

DR
03-11-2011, 04:59 PM
I have looked at several drill presses with this setup. Walker-Turner and others.

In a number of cases, the taper on the end of the spindle was bent*, causing the chuck to wabble more-or-less severely and making the drill press essentially unusable aside from very basic hole-poking. Naturally in those cases the presses were otherwise among the better looking units, but the owners blew off the bend when pricing.

probably they were better looking because they hadn't been used much since the bend, and nobody could stand to scrap a "good" press that "just" needs a spindle. 'Course they never replaced it, and now 30 years later spindles are even less available.

Yes you can bend it back, maybe, but it will likely always wabble after that, you may just reduce it a bit.

Bent spindles are less common in morse socket types. The very thin "neck" often present just above the taper on the type with the JT ends is a weak point.

J

*
On-point example, right here.

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=46942


This system (locking collar chucks) was used on Rockwell, W-T, Atlas/Craftsman and a whole bunch more higher end DP's from the 1940's up till the junk invasion. How wrong could they be?

There's nothing inherently wrong with it. Other than stupid users. Used within the capacity of the machines, generally a max 1/2" hole in soft steel, they'll last forever. How do you bend a spindle using the machine within it's capacity?

Granted, the Morse taper imports may be stiffer spindle-wise, but how many complaints have you read about them? Ever tried used a tapping head with one (oops, it fell out on retraction)?

All in all, the locking collar is by far the best solution for bit holding in a light duty DP. Light duty being 14"-15".

J Tiers
03-11-2011, 08:33 PM
It's a good idea, it isn't "wrong", but it WILL bend, as evidenced by all the ones that have bent.

I wasn't aware that the chucks have a part that locks in with the collar.... if that is true, that's a *huge* "demerit", since I would not suppose those have been made for many years.

The ones I have seen may have had a collar for removal. Most had no chuck, and the collar was lost on some.

There is no morse taper that is any good that falls out..... it must have dings etc. I had one chinese press that everything fell out of. When I looked, I found that the socket was never ground, it was only rough-turned. Good thing I got it very used........

DR
03-11-2011, 10:01 PM
.................................................. .................................................. ...

I wasn't aware that the chucks have a part that locks in with the collar.... if that is true, that's a *huge* "demerit", since I would not suppose those have been made for many years.

.................................................. .................................................. ...

There is no morse taper that is any good that falls out..... it must have dings etc. I had one chinese press that everything fell out of. When I looked, I found that the socket was never ground, it was only rough-turned. Good thing I got it very used........


The collared chucks are still available. IIRC, Jacobs 633C is one. Rohm also may still make one. Supreme was the other big player in the field, but seem to have disappeared.

You're right about the Morse tapers, they SHOULDN'T fall out. But, that's not the real world. Almost every machine I've seen with a vertical spindle using a Morse taper where there's force required to retract the cutter will have dropped the tool at one time or another. And, it only takes a time or two before the taper is dinged from a spinning tool dropping out.

Back in my pre-CNC days I had a couple big 20" DP's with #3 Morse spindles. One was used for large diameter tapping, the other had a heavy multi-spindle head on it. I got so tired of the tapers dropping out I ground an undercut on the tool shanks. And, put a tapped collar with a set screw around the spindle. Problem solved, no way could they ever drop.

J Tiers
03-11-2011, 11:01 PM
Apparently "not no more, they don't".

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=37935

However, that data must be old..... The Jacobs website did not come up with any of those numbers.

MSC UK website did, but was shown as "cached", so probably old. US MSC found nada.

http://www.mscjlindustrial.co.uk/JDC-02068K/SEARCH:CATEGORY/product.html

dfw5914
03-12-2011, 12:22 AM
Fwiw, the Sears P/N for the collared JT33 style chuck is 71318 (5/8" cap.). No idea who manufactures the chucks for sears.

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/part-number/71318/0009/113

DR
03-12-2011, 05:07 AM
Apparently "not no more, they don't".

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=37935

However, that data must be old..... The Jacobs website did not come up with any of those numbers.

MSC UK website did, but was shown as "cached", so probably old. US MSC found nada.

http://www.mscjlindustrial.co.uk/JDC-02068K/SEARCH:CATEGORY/product.html


Apparently Jacobs changed the part number and possibly the design slightly, but still available with the locking collar.

34-33C, approx $88 +/-.

J Tiers
03-12-2011, 10:49 AM
Apparently Jacobs changed the part number and possibly the design slightly, but still available with the locking collar.

34-33C, approx $88 +/-.

Not when I searched the Jacobs site..... Their search (goofle-powered) suggested several off-site hits, including lingerie, but no such part.

if you know about it, let's see the link. AFAIK, it's no longer made

70Chrgr
03-12-2011, 10:52 AM
Fwiw, the Sears P/N for the collared JT33 style chuck is 71318 (5/8" cap.). No idea who manufactures the chucks for sears.

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/part-number/71318/0009/113

Thanks, Ive been searching for a chuck with over 1/2" capacity and a 33jt. even considered making a 3jt-33jt adapter so that I could put a larger chuck on my Rockwell 15-655, but I guess sears had one all along.

DR
03-12-2011, 11:33 AM
Not when I searched the Jacobs site..... Their search (goofle-powered) suggested several off-site hits, including lingerie, but no such part.

if you know about it, let's see the link. AFAIK, it's no longer made


http://www.jacobschuck.com/images/products/Pro%20Keyed%20Updated%20(ENG)-1.pdf

About midway down the heavy duty chuck listing.

I found it by looking for a chuck with the suffix "C". 34-33C.

In the recent past I've had some trouble finding Jacobs products too. When looking for the rebuild kits I gave up and called Jacobs, they told me they were no longer available, but my local dealer said he orders them all the time.


Also, go to the MSC site and search on "34-33C", it comes up. Unfortunately they use the generic chuck picture so you can't see the colar.

DR
03-12-2011, 11:42 AM
Fwiw, the Sears P/N for the collared JT33 style chuck is 71318 (5/8" cap.). No idea who manufactures the chucks for sears.

http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/part-number/71318/0009/113


I'm suspicious of this. Sears says soemthing about this being a functional equivalent. That could mean it's 33 taper, but no collar.

5/8" capacity smells like offshore. AFAIK, no offshore DP's used the locking collar so this would almost have to be a special made for Sears if in fact it does have the collar (which I doubt).

JCHannum
03-12-2011, 12:32 PM
They are also available from Victor, who include the locking collar in their description. You have to scroll past the import listings to the Jacobs chucks;

http://www.victornet.com/subdepartments/Key-Type-Drill-Chucks/550.html

As far as I know, the drill press arbor is a full 33JT, and plain 33JT chucks will work. It is a common mount for chucks in this size range and use of a chuck less the locking collar should not present any major problems.

I believe the original purpose was to provide an easy method of chuck removal to permit use of other JT accessories rather than chuck retention.

J Tiers
03-12-2011, 01:42 PM
I suspect I may have searched for a 33-34C, which is NOT available;)

if it is a straight 33 taper, that's convenient. At some time it was asserted that the taper was not exactly like a 33, but looking at the part number (the correct one) a "34-33" would be a 33 mount, 34-33C one with "C" collar.

dfw5914
03-12-2011, 10:24 PM
I suspect I may have searched for a 33-34C, which is NOT available;)

if it is a straight 33 taper, that's convenient. At some time it was asserted that the taper was not exactly like a 33, but looking at the part number (the correct one) a "34-33" would be a 33 mount, 34-33C one with "C" collar.

I have a small tapping head that has a JT33 w/collar configuration. It currently has a standard 1/2" straight JT33 arbor installed so I believe the taper is the same.

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n188/pmhurco/March2011003a.jpg

foreman33
11-12-2012, 12:38 PM
Yes, I have a question about the removal of the chuck on the Rockwell drill press. Some people state that you need a wedge to remove it and other say to unscrew it. So which is it? The locking ring above the chuck has 3 holes in it, and it is right hand thread.

So do you wind it down against the chuck and continue winding it down until the chuck coes off?

Does the chuck unscrew or does it just get pushed off by winding down the lock nut?

I put a drift pin in the lock nut while I attempted to wind it down against the chuck while I held the chuck with the chuck key and it still did nothing. Would not come off.

I tried raising the lock nut and putting a wedge between the lock nut and the chuck and beating the wedge with a hammer and it would not budge.

What am I doing wrong???

What do I need to do to remove the chuck???

Please explain how to do this step by step. Because what I've been doing is not working.

foreman33