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View Full Version : New ZX45 and new 12x24 lathe owner ...oil type?



Farndurk
03-13-2011, 07:43 PM
Hey all. Been a good long while since I logged on. Health stuff got in the way .. namely a 0.285 kidney stone that turned into one nasty infection and a hospital stay ...

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk101/SiloScience/IMGP6392.jpg


Since I last logged on around July of 2010, we got in a Bolton ZX45 .....

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk101/SiloScience/Farndurk%20Shop/Mach-shoplookingeast.jpg

and a Bolton CQ9332 (12x24) lathe ...

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk101/SiloScience/Farndurk%20Shop/CQ9332-001.jpg

Over time I've welded up a little stand for both machines, and we're about ready to go here. The table is now braced up a bit, and it's also bolted good and snug right to the floor. It's made of .120 wall 2 inch square tubing (1020 mild steel) with a .250 top plate. Several crossbraces and such have been installed (made of the same 2 inch square). The machines are also bolted down as well. Still have some details to be worked out.

So, I'm going through the owner's manuals for each machine and I can find nothing .. nothing at all about what type of oil to put in the gear boxes of each machine. A call to Bolton got me some info ...

Use DTE 24 .. no heavier than DTE 30.

After translating that ... I came up with Enerpac ISO 32. Locally available in gallon jugs for around $45 plus tax.

So .. is this it? The $45 per gallon suff? If so, I guess it's only once. The guy at Bolton said that a gallon would do both the lathe and mill twice each. So that should last a while.

Just thought I'd ask if there was an alternative to the $45 gallon stuff. If not, I'll head on down to Kaman Bearing and pick up the liquid gold.

Thanks folks!

Brian ..

JCHannum
03-13-2011, 08:32 PM
That is nothing more than plain ISO 32 hydraulic oil. It should be readily available for a third of that price just about anywhere. You will be paying a premium for the Enerpac name.

Black_Moons
03-13-2011, 08:45 PM
Well, One tip, if it comes with oil.. .Drain it and throw it out before even turning it on, Its like, Used automotive oil its so nasty (if its anything like my chinese lathe/mill.. My bandsaw came with clean oil surpisingly!)

And yea, iso32 hydrolic oil. Maybe thicker if you live where its very warm.
You'll wanna run it for about 1/2 hour in each speed, forward and reverse, then drain the oil again, And replace it with fresh oil. After a few months of using it, Replace the oil once more right after running it for 1/2 hour on its fastest speed (to get the oil/gunk mixed up and warm), And the oil will stay *CLEAR* for years of use after that. Like fresh outta the bottle clear.

doorknob
03-13-2011, 09:53 PM
After you drain the oil that the mill was shipped with, do you clean the gear box with kerosene or something similar before replacing the oil?

Black_Moons
03-13-2011, 10:09 PM
Nah, I did take a few handfulls of debrie outta the bottom with a magnet on wand however... Tricky not letting it touch the gears and deposit magnetic debrie on them.

Considered basicly flushing it with a filtered parts washer rig.. but decided too much effort.

Farndurk
03-13-2011, 10:25 PM
Thanks for the info so far folks!

Great dope on the flushing issue. I had already thought of it but then thought I was being to over-cautious. So now my instincts seem reasonable, and flushing is a must-do at this point. Perhaps using a bit of Diesel would work for that?

On the oil ... y'know I live in a primarily agricultural area. I sorta thought that getting a gallon of ISO 32 would be an easy thing, considering the amount of hydraulic equipment used in these parts. Nuthin but that stinkin' Enerpac is available in less than five gallon amounts. Tomorrow is Monday, I'll try hitting up the petroleum yards around here and see what the what is.

You'd think Harbor Freight would even have it. Or Wal Mart (especially out here).

So nothing like Mobile 1 or Lucas or anything like that then?

Thanks again.

Bc ..

Willy
03-13-2011, 11:25 PM
That is nothing more than plain ISO 32 hydraulic oil. It should be readily available for a third of that price just about anywhere. You will be paying a premium for the Enerpac name.

Precisely!

I always love the way some companies coerce their customers into buying their products under the pressure of loosing their warranty if you don't bend over backwards and pay through the nose for their products.

This from the Enerpac website (http://www.enerpac.com/products/system-components/hoses-couplers-and-oil/hf-series-hydraulic-oil):



Use only genuine Enerpac hydraulic oil. The use of any other fluid will render your Enerpac warranty null and void.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this a violation of the Magnuson- Moss Warranty Act?

Having worked with oil companies in the past on this very issue, I would be very surprised if you had an issue with an Enerpac product that was denied warranty because you were using a direct replacement product from Mobil, Shell, etc. Their people would back you up in a heartbeat.

Farndurk
03-14-2011, 05:33 AM
I owned and operated an industrial equipment repair facility here in Yuma for nearly sixteen years. We did service and repair on power tools, welding machines, RV and Auxilary generators, as well as hydraulic equipment and torch and regulator service. We were an Enerpac Factory Authorized Warranty and Repair Center for nearly ten years. Our shop was rated at one-hundred tons test capabilty. We hand-built each and every hydraulic test cell ourselves. ... fun times ... :)

Power Tools/Rechargeable Tools: We also did the same type of representation and work for Makita, Black and Decker/DeWalt, Milwaukee, Ryobi, Snap On, Craftsman, Porter Cable on the power tool end of things.

Hydraulic Gear: Enerpac and Norco on hydraulic equipment.

Welding Equipment: Miller Electric, Lincoln Electric, Hobart, Esab, Thermal Arc, Thermaldyne, MK/Cobramatic on the welding machine end of the world.

Gas Welding Equipemnt: Victor Equipment and Smith Equipemtn, as well as Harris on the Torch and Regulator corner of things.

Pnuematic Tools: Chigago Pnuematic on the air tools end of things.

Air Compressors: We were "factory" for Rol-Air and Coleman.

And about thrirty or so other manufacturers I cannot even remember right now (battery chargers, fork lift chargers, floor jacks, ugh .. so much stuff we used to fix!!!).

Generators: And on the generator side of things we were factory authorized for Onan, Generac, Power Tech, Caterpillar, and Coleman. We did everything from little putt-putt hand-carryable portable generators to five hundred kilowatt industrial emergency standby gens for hospitals and police departments and casinos.

All in all, we were a factory authorized repair and warranty center for about fourty different manufacturers for nearly sixteen years. My wife Missi and I ran a good shop from 1994 to 2008. 17 technicians, 4 full-sized RV bays, six-thousand square foot of enclosed shop with 1.3 acres of "yard". Cancer, IBD, a devastating fire, (hell, let's just call it "1999 to 2001") as well as the Bush administration's ideas of what "good" was took a huge toll on our little shop. We sold it lock stock and barrel in 2008 to my longest standing tech. (He's having a hard time these days but he is still making those business payments to us ... so far so good, y'know? Now then, where's some wood to knock on!). Health reasons, that was the main reasons.

These days to feed my family I just build these little electronic gizmos for guitar players and I also build streetbikes from the ground - up. No overhead (no employees, no shop lease, shared electrc bill, shared internet bill, etc... all the perks of working from the home-shop ... you know how it is.) and no regular business hours make it better for my health issues. So ... we've adapted and we keep on truckin' rather than having given up and gone on disability. I mean .. what the hell, I can still work .. so I do .. y'know?

In out little sixteen year adventure that was known as Service Depot, if it's one thing I learned about, it's cross-warranty-cooperation. Enerpac may (indeed) have some rights when it comes to proprietary lubrication required to be used on propreietary equipment. Not really sure. However most of the time I've found that talk like that is meant to scare the beejeebers out of the end-user to sortof scare them into buying overpriced conventional petroloeum products.

Onan's policy is clear .. any oils thaty meet the spec that Onan publishes for their generators is ok-fine to use. I had plenty of customers in motorhomes that insisted on using this or that "magic" oil (Lucas, Slick 50, Mobile1, whatever ...) in their generators. Onan had zero issues with any of it, even though they sold "their own special oil" (which turned out to be nothing more than Havoline 30wt detergent). I had other customers that outrightly insisted that we sue nothing but "Onan" oil. So, we obliged them by using standard auto-parts-house grade 30wt. Onan said right in their warranty that all of the engines were specifically designed to run on plain old straight 30wt. So we did as required and put in plain old 30wt. Not "Onan" 30wt ... just 30wt. Onan was 100% cool with that, even though many customers actually thought that they "must" use nothing but "Onan" oil.

So a lot of the time it fell on nothing but end-user perceptions. Other times a given company might insist on using only their products. That way they can weasel out of a warranty clam if they so choose to do so, is what I think.

I was just at the local Honda shop the other day talking with the parts manager about my racebike. A guy came to the counter and asked for the oil that goes in a Hondookie Gofaster 400. The kid at the counter handed this customer a quart of 30wt with a Hondooky label on it. Seven bucks plus tax please! SEVEN FRIGGIN BUCKS FOR 30WT! (~chuckle~ ... we used to buy 30wt in 55 gallon drums for about 0.89 cents per qt in 2002).

Anyhow, the stunned and butt-sore customer walked away with his quart of 30wt and his wallet about $7.50 lighter .. but by god his warranty is protected! (Idiot ... dirt bikes have NO WARRANTY! .. Yet folks still pay seven bucks a qt.).

Perceptions. They are 100% of reality.

:)

Oops: Just to be clear ... Bolton did NOT tell me I "had" to use this or that lube, just "any ISO 32" in their machines is fine. Jsyk.

Willy
03-14-2011, 01:00 PM
Oops: Just to be clear ... Bolton did NOT tell me I "had" to use this or that lube, just "any ISO 32" in their machines is fine. Jsyk.


Thanks Brian, sorry I didn't mean to imply that Bolton required you to use any specific lube.
It just irks me though when someone tells me I have to use their product or service in order to sustain my warranty. This was all I intended to point out.

I realize though that there are certain proprietary lubes that indeed are brand specific and are required in order to meet particular performance criteria.
A name brand lube supplier will state whether they do or do not have a product that meets a particular performance requirement, and if they do you are not obligated to use the product vendor's brand of lube in order to fulfill their warranty requirements.

Having been in the industrial lubes sales and service business for a long time I have gone toe to toe with these situations in the past and it's never gone too far before the product's vendor backs down and does honor their warranty...as long as you have done your homework and advised your client to use the proper product.
We always had a very large lube reference library and access to tribology and engineering departments, there was never a reason for us to make an uninformed recommendation. Most people don't realize the resources that are at their disposal when they talk to bulk petroleum agent about recommending a lube for a certain application.
I know that I've sure had some doozies from left field.:D

Farndurk
03-14-2011, 04:44 PM
Boy ain't that the truth? Some people's children!

We had this one home building contractor that was buying brand new Milwaukee Sawzalls. Then he'd take the guts out of his beat to hell ones out of their cases and put the sour guts in the brand new cases and scream warranty. After a bit of marking of parts, careful record keeping, and a desire to beat this chump we finally caught him solid. Big contractor, had like 25o+ people working under them.

Their biggest problem was the unskilled labor so many businesses insist on hiring around here (we're a southern border town). These unskilled workers just abuse te hell out of the equipent, and the contractor goes to crooked lengths to avoid repair bills.

Now then, if we could just get the skilled workers to take these lower paying jobs instead of taking unemployment ..... (maybe we wouldn't need "the danged fence"). It's amazing how many little brown faces you see out in the fields working their buns off, and so many "not so brown" faces in the unemployment line. The jobs are there ... farmers hire field workers each and every single day. I guess it's just easier for the "not so brown" citizens to not "stoop" to the level of field worker and take unemployment instead.

Ranting. Sorry.

Thin ice ....

Bc ..

Oh .. and on the oil. We found 5 gallon barrels of Chevron ISO 32 at our local fuel barn for $44 out the door ($44 includes tax). 5x as much oil as the Enerpac stuff for the same price. I know 5 gallons is a lot, but this way I'm more willing to do the whole flush/refill trip a few times with both the lathe and the mill. I have a few floor jacks, a shop crane, a couple of bike lifts, couple of bottle jacks and such that we can use the remainder for over time.

Thanks tons fellers!