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pgmrdan
03-17-2011, 05:13 PM
I figure some of you guys must carry a knife and maybe a handgun too.

What's a good knife to carry? (BTW, I can carry legally.)

I'd really like a fixed blade that I can carry in a sheath in my front pants pocket. The new Buck 113 Ranger Skinner looks fairly good but the handle can be slick. I have a Buck Vanguard I really like but it's just a bit big.

I have an older (30+ years) Schrade LB7 that's a really nice knife for a lockback but it would be pretty slow in a pinch.

What do you think?

Thanks.

gambler
03-17-2011, 05:16 PM
don't bring a knife to a gun fight. gun=better.:)

pgmrdan
03-17-2011, 05:24 PM
Already have a gun. How about if I bring a knife too? :D

Arcane
03-17-2011, 05:31 PM
If you're going to get in a knife fight, you gotta get the rules right!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWTNBRs7Ccs

Forrest Addy
03-17-2011, 05:56 PM
I figgered out early that if you need to carry weapons you're either obsessed with macho BS or living in the wrong part of town. I'm 69 years old and the last real fight I was in was when I was 20 and I knew it was stupid before it even started. Ive had may confrontations since then but always deflected the other guy's wrath.

garagemark
03-17-2011, 06:14 PM
You figgured wrong Forest. It's nice that you have never had a problem, but things happen anywhere, anytime. Been there done that... right side of town, Wrong identity.

Ries
03-17-2011, 06:19 PM
I am with Forrest.
I am only 55, but I havent been in a fight since high school. And I have been to the wrong side of towns all over the world, had my shop in South Central LA for 8 years.

But, at the same time, I have carried a knife, as a tool, not a weapon, since I was probably 8. Never needed it for violence, but it sure comes in handy for opening packages, cutting salami, and opening paint cans.

Its in my pocket, and nobody can see it, but its hardly a "concealed carry".
Its a swiss army knife.

You need a big blade, thats fine.
I need scissors, tweezers, and screwdriver that fits eyeglasses a lot more often than I need a weapon...

GKman
03-17-2011, 06:20 PM
I figgered out early that if you need to carry weapons you're either obsessed with macho BS or living in the wrong part of town. I'm 69 years old and the last real fight I was in was when I was 20 and I knew it was stupid before it even started. Ive had may confrontations since then but always deflected the other guy's wrath.

Ditto. 62 and 15 for me.

aboard_epsilon
03-17-2011, 06:22 PM
yup ..nice screw driver will do as much damage as a knife

take his advice

so you need to make your self a flick driver :)

all the best.markj

Black_Moons
03-17-2011, 06:24 PM
My neighbor wanted to fight me last week because I told him to keep his barking dogs under control. Seriously, told me "DO YOU WANNA GO?"
I replyed "No, But its a $200 a day fine if they don't stop barking"
... Well, He said do you wanna go! So I took my best shot. In my method of fighting.

Half hour later walked by and heard the very muffed sounds of a dog barking from inside a house. ;)

But yea.. Weapons rarely make a situation any better.

Rosco-P
03-17-2011, 06:36 PM
In carrying either, are you prepared to go all the way? I believe that a visible fixed blade knife would dissuade most criminals. There is always the possibility of running into the robber or team of robbers that would consider it a personal challenge to rob an armed man and try to do so.

lazlo
03-17-2011, 06:48 PM
I agree with Forrest and Ries -- either change your lifestyle, or where you're hanging out.

But if you have to carry a weapon, get a concealed carry permit and carry a gun -- carrying a knife for self defense is just going to get you killed.

cuemaker
03-17-2011, 07:19 PM
Blade Forums is where you need to be...

I have carried a pocket knife since I was 17...Most handy thing I own.. Cleans my nails, opens boxes etc..

lazlo
03-17-2011, 07:25 PM
I have carried a pocket knife since I was 17...Most handy thing I own.. Cleans my nails, opens boxes etc..

Ditto, but he's asking for a concealed weapon.

squirrel
03-17-2011, 07:33 PM
I grew up in a mid size city and had a CC permit when I turned 21, Pop always packed his 1911 because of the bad neighborhood. After moving to the next county over and into a small town with 1 stop light I have not had the need to carry a gun. Unless you are trapped in a bad neighborhood or handle money its best not to carry and do your best to avoid going into dangerous areas. Even though deadly force might be justified its the civil litigation from the crooks family that you will have to contend with, thats fine if you live a rusty van with nothing to lose. Any way, if you are going to pack buy a gun. Check your state laws, many states have different laws and some require a concealed carry permit for large knives.

cuemaker
03-17-2011, 08:19 PM
Ditto, but he's asking for a concealed weapon.

A slippie in the pocket count?

And you missed the irony, again........:)

My point being that a concealed knife wont do you any good except the for the uses I outlined and other such simple tasks....when violence happens, it happens fast, especially to those not accustomed to it... and if he was accustomed to it, he wouldnt be asking a machinist forum about a knife.....and bucks at that...

To the OP.. IF you really want to know the ins and outs... find the Blade Forums... they will satisfy any questions you got.

Gravy
03-17-2011, 08:32 PM
I'm with the other older guys. We've survived this long, maybe we know something.

Best way to survive a knife/gun/nuke fight? Don't be there.

If you need to carry weapons to be "safe"...MOVE!

Ya know all of those reasons you've been staying where you are?...great pay, benefits, career opportunities, ballet lessons for the kid? How are those going to balance out when you or your wife or child are bleeding out in the gutter?

There are still thousands of communities in the US where people don't lock their doors, and maybe even routinely leave their keys in the ignition at the grocery store.

If you move to one of those communities, you're probably not going to make "real" money or get "basic" benefits. You will get a very modest paycheck, and you will work together with your neighbors to cut and split enough firewood for the winter, even if you don't really like each other. You will also lose the concept of a "routine" mugging.

In these communities, those "muggers" have other names.


Compost. Hog feed. Fill dirt...

OK, that's a little overly dramatic. (Maybe a little). Let's go with "jailbird". The scumbags may not go directly to the carbon cycle, but they probably won't walk away scot-free 15 minutes after the booking. City cops probably don't know the victims, but small town cops do. It can get kinda personal.

That "personal" factor can be very uncomfortable. If Deputy Billy Bob gets mad at you, you can't avoid him in a small town. He can make your life hell...but he probably won't kill you. How does that compare to an urban gangsta who "earned" his membership at age 13?

OTOH, Deputy Billy Bob probably hasn't seen hundreds of robberies, rapes and murders. He'll probably still care if it happens to you or your family. He may not like you, but you will be part of his community. He probably won't yawn while processing eviscerated bodies at a crime scene (he'll probably puke).


Small town life. It's not for everybody, but I think it beats the hell out of needing to carry a weapon.

aboard_epsilon
03-17-2011, 08:38 PM
I'm with the other older guys. We've survived this long, maybe we know something.

Best way to survive a knife/gun/nuke fight? Don't be there.

If you need to carry weapons to be "safe"...MOVE!

Ya know all of those reasons you've been staying where you are?...great pay, benefits, career opportunities, ballet lessons for the kid? How are those going to balance out when you or your wife or child are bleeding out in the gutter?

There are still thousands of communities in the US where people don't lock their doors, and maybe even routinely leave their keys in the ignition at the grocery store.

If you move to one of those communities, you're probably not going to make "real" money or get "basic" benefits. You will get a very modest paycheck, and you will work together with your neighbors to cut and split enough firewood for the winter, even if you don't really like each other. You will also lose the concept of a "routine" mugging.

In these communities, those "muggers" have other names.


Compost. Hog feed. Fill dirt...

OK, that's a little overly dramatic. (Maybe a little). Let's go with "jailbird". The scumbags may not go directly to the carbon cycle, but they probably won't walk away scot-free 15 minutes after the booking. City cops probably don't know the victims, but small town cops do. It can get kinda personal.

That "personal" factor can be very uncomfortable. If Deputy Billy Bob gets mad at you, you can't avoid him in a small town. He can make your life hell...but he probably won't kill you. How does that compare to an urban gangsta who "earned" his membership at age 13?

OTOH, Deputy Billy Bob probably hasn't seen hundreds of robberies, rapes and murders. He'll probably still care if it happens to you or your family. He may not like you, but you will be part of his community. He probably won't yawn while processing eviscerated bodies at a crime scene (he'll probably puke).


Small town life. It's not for everybody, but I think it beats the hell out of needing to carry a weapon.

Yup, better to be happy and poor ..than rich and miserable ..

watch film... Doc Hollywood

Then make decision on what your going to be doing the rest of your life

all the best.markj

Carld
03-17-2011, 08:41 PM
I suggest you forget the fixed blade and get a slide out blade knife. They are easy to carry and fast to open or close. Carrying a sheath knife in your pocket is going to be a problem. Different states and localities have different blade lengths that are legal to carry without a CC license.

Since you said you can carry legally you can carry anything you want. That means anything that is considered a lethal weapon, club, nunchucks, knife, blackjack, cane, staff, brass knuckles, Chinese Stars, gun, etc.

If you carry a gun and knife carry the gun on the side you shoot with and the knife on the other. I have carried a knife since I was about 10 and a gun since my early 20's. Never needed to use the gun but I use the knife all the time for utility purposes. I feel naked without at least a knife.

If your going to carry a knife for defense take a course in knife fighting and stick fighting. The technics for each are almost the same.

If your going to carry a gun learn to use it fast and accurately and only use it as a last resort. Don't EVER start a confrontation if your carrying a gun or knife. If you have to draw a gun it has to be because you have to shoot someone, not to threaten them.

As to a brand of knife, I can't help you. Get a catalog from Smokey Mountain Knife Works, they have a lot of different brands.

Gravy
03-17-2011, 09:06 PM
Yup, better to be happy and poor ..than rich and miserable ..

watch film... Doc Hollywood

Then make decision on what your going to be doing the rest of your life

all the best.markj

There is a lot to be said for happy and rich, if you can manage it.

I've managed to avoid being downright poor, and I haven't managed being outright happy. What I have managed is not being constantly worried and scared. I don't lay awake nights worrying about me and my family starving this week or getting robbed, raped, stabbed, shot, or beaten to death so some punk can qualify for membership in the Crips or Bloods.

I have neighbors with deer rifles and backhoes and lots of acreage. AFAIK, none of them have ever had to make the hard choices. Beats the hell out of trying to appease or oppose the local ganglords.

Deus Machina
03-17-2011, 09:12 PM
Alright, I'll chip in as a CCL holder.

I don't carry a gun because I'm afraid. If I think I will need it somewhere, I don't go there.

Then again, you guys don't have a fire extinguisher because you expect to set your kitchen ablaze.

It's better to have it and never need it, then be in the last-option situation where it could save your life, and not have it.

Despite what you guys seem to think, guns don't come out often when a legal carrier gets in a fight, because it's extremely rare that a CCL holder starts a confrontation. They come out when someone else--usually a robber, mugger, or drunk--starts a confrontation and the holder can't run any further. You don't need to be on the wrong side of town to get caught during a walk or at the gas station. Or in my case, which I thankfully managed to run away from, accosted and threatened not a dozen yards away from my own door at upscale apartments.

Even if you move away from the criminals' driving range, you then may have to deal with wild dogs, coyotes, or hogs. Admittedly, I would prefer the four-legged problems.

That said, every knife I carry is a Kershaw. If they're legal in your area, the OC1 lever-open and Scallion spring-assist are lightning fast for folders, and I wholeheartedly endorse any Kershaw fixed-blade of the right size.

sasquatch
03-17-2011, 09:34 PM
Is there not enough violence in the world without walking around carrying a weapon?

Move to a better area,, believe it or not they do still exist,, places where people still do not lock their doors, where one can walk anywhere day or night.

Your Old Dog
03-17-2011, 09:35 PM
The only person I know who carries a fixed blade in his front pocket right next to his wallet while his hanky occupies the other front pocket is the Pillsbury Dough Boy. If you pulled a fixed blade out of your front pocket a Hoody would likely die of laughter.

I carry a 45 because they don't make a 46 and the cops in Buffalo are run ragged and understaffed so my cellphone won't do me any good. I don't go looking for trouble but I'm not going to drive wide-out around town to avoid part of my community. I have had 3 occasions, all while inside my car, when I've had to display my handgun to hoods who came up to my car. In all three cases they turned on their heels without my even pointing it at them, just holding it on the front seat. It may or may not be the reason I can type these words. I now have an extremely pricey motor home and any hood who wants my traveling money and wants to play with my wife will be greeted by my 45. I'm tired of being afraid. It's nice to have a plan, it's comforting and allows you to enjoy life more. My last days are drawing near and I won't spend them hiding and running from hoodys. My message to them: I'm just as bad an ass at 65 as you are at 20, and just about as crazy as you.

I'm not afraid to "get busy" if one of you or your familly one day needs my help. I've had a great life and this is something I can contribute. My CC permit was issued in 1972 and I ain't fired at any one yet and I ain't been hurt either.

If you don't trust yourself to own one, or, think that you would draw down first instead of trying other avenues then you probably shouldn't own a handgun much less carry one. I trust myself.

The following is something someone emailed to me and I pretty much agree with it:

"My old grandpa said to me, "Son, there comes a time in every man's life when he stops bustin' knuckles and starts bustin' caps and usually it's when he becomes too old to take an ass whoopin'."

I don't carry a gun to kill people. I carry a gun to keep from being killed.

I don't carry a gun to scare people. I carry a gun because sometimes this world can be a scary place.

I don't carry a gun because I'm paranoid. I carry a gun because there are real threats in the world.

I don't carry a gun because I'm evil. I carry a gun because I have lived long enough to see the evil in the world.

I don't carry a gun because I hate the government. I carry a gun because I understand the limitations of government.

I don't carry a gun because I'm angry. I carry a gun so thatI don't have to spend the rest of my life hating myself for failing to be prepared.

I don't carry a gun because I want to shoot someone. I carry a gun because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed, and not on a sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon.

I don't carry a gun because I'm a cowboy. I carry a gun because, when I die and go to Heaven, I want to be a cowboy.

I don't carry a gun to make me feel like a man. I carry a gun because men should know how to take care of themselves and the ones they love.

I don't carry a gun because I feel inadequate. I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am inadequate.

I don't carry a gun because I love it. I carry a gun because I love life and the people who make it meaningful to me.


"Police Protection" is an oxymoron. Free citizens must protect themselves. Police do not protect you from crime; they usually just investigate the crime after it happens and then call someone in to clean up the mess. Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.
... author unknown (but obviously brilliant)
"

gambler
03-18-2011, 01:03 AM
The only person I know who carries a fixed blade in his front pocket right next to his wallet while his hanky occupies the other front pocket is the Pillsbury Dough Boy. If you pulled a fixed blade out of your front pocket a Hoody would likely die of laughter.

I carry a 45 because they don't make a 46 and the cops in Buffalo are run ragged and understaffed so my cellphone won't do me any good. I don't go looking for trouble but I'm not going to drive wide-out around town to avoid part of my community. I have had 3 occasions, all while inside my car, when I've had to display my handgun to hoods who came up to my car. In all three cases they turned on their heels without my even pointing it at them, just holding it on the front seat. It may or may not be the reason I can type these words. I now have an extremely pricey motor home and any hood who wants my traveling money and wants to play with my wife will be greeted by my 45. I'm tired of being afraid. It's nice to have a plan, it's comforting and allows you to enjoy life more. My last days are drawing near and I won't spend them hiding and running from hoodys. My message to them: I'm just as bad an ass at 65 as you are at 20, and just about as crazy as you.

I'm not afraid to "get busy" if one of you or your familly one day needs my help. I've had a great life and this is something I can contribute. My CC permit was issued in 1972 and I ain't fired at any one yet and I ain't been hurt either.

If you don't trust yourself to own one, or, think that you would draw down first instead of trying other avenues then you probably shouldn't own a handgun much less carry one. I trust myself.

The following is something someone emailed to me and I pretty much agree with it:

"My old grandpa said to me, "Son, there comes a time in every man's life when he stops bustin' knuckles and starts bustin' caps and usually it's when he becomes too old to take an ass whoopin'."

I don't carry a gun to kill people. I carry a gun to keep from being killed.

I don't carry a gun to scare people. I carry a gun because sometimes this world can be a scary place.

I don't carry a gun because I'm paranoid. I carry a gun because there are real threats in the world.

I don't carry a gun because I'm evil. I carry a gun because I have lived long enough to see the evil in the world.

I don't carry a gun because I hate the government. I carry a gun because I understand the limitations of government.

I don't carry a gun because I'm angry. I carry a gun so thatI don't have to spend the rest of my life hating myself for failing to be prepared.

I don't carry a gun because I want to shoot someone. I carry a gun because I want to die at a ripe old age in my bed, and not on a sidewalk somewhere tomorrow afternoon.

I don't carry a gun because I'm a cowboy. I carry a gun because, when I die and go to Heaven, I want to be a cowboy.

I don't carry a gun to make me feel like a man. I carry a gun because men should know how to take care of themselves and the ones they love.

I don't carry a gun because I feel inadequate. I carry a gun because unarmed and facing three armed thugs, I am inadequate.

I don't carry a gun because I love it. I carry a gun because I love life and the people who make it meaningful to me.


"Police Protection" is an oxymoron. Free citizens must protect themselves. Police do not protect you from crime; they usually just investigate the crime after it happens and then call someone in to clean up the mess. Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.
... author unknown (but obviously brilliant)
"


this. amen.

Deus Machina
03-18-2011, 06:43 AM
Is there not enough violence in the world without walking around carrying a weapon?

Note: we concealed carriers have the weapon because we abhor violence. We abhor it even more if it's being visited upon us.

Carrying it one thing, using it is a very different, separate, and terrifying idea.

RenoF250
03-18-2011, 08:25 AM
I carry one of these:
http://www.benchmade.com/products/551

Fits in your pocket easy and is out and open faster than you could get out a fixed blade. I have carried many similar knives and I really like this one. Very smooth to open and just a quality knife. Worth the ~$100.

firbikrhd1
03-18-2011, 09:04 AM
I view a knife as a last ditch defense weapon. It gets used if you couldn't avoid confrontation any other way. After all other methods, i.e. leaving the area, avoiding problems in the first place by using common sense or attempting to talk an attacker down don't work and if you don't have a gun, a knife could save your life. It doesn't work like a gun though, in that in some cases simply displaying a gun can entice an attacker to leave, if you pull a knife, use it, your attacker is too close already and may have a knife of his own. All that said, for concealed carry of a knife I like the items here: http://bowenknife.com/products_main.shtml
They are well concealed. easy to carry, easily accessible and will come as a surprise to your assailant. The double edged knife would be very difficult for an attacker to grab by the blade and twist from your grip, can be used as both a slashing tool and stabbing tool.

garagemark
03-18-2011, 10:30 AM
YOD--- Spot on.

lazlo
03-18-2011, 10:47 AM
I carry a 45 because they don't make a 46

LOL! You need a Desert Eagle .50 AE :)

I like 10mm's because I don't like to wait for the bullets to hit the target when I shoot my .45 :D

531blackbanshee
03-18-2011, 10:49 AM
i carry a
http://www.thekershawstore.com/Kershaw-Tanto-Blur-Serrated-Knife-p/k1670tblkst.htm
in my front pocket,which is right where my seat belt button happens to be."oh you want to car jack me,no problem let me undo my seat belt :D "ah mr.car jacker just got stuck.

i also have one of these
http://www.knivesplus.com/boker-magnum-knife-bk-bo108.html
rigth next to my wallet."oh you want to rob me,no problem i have a thousand dollars in my wallet.here let me get it for you :D "ah mr.robber just got stuck".

in my right front pocket below the kershaw is one of these
http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/naa_mini_22lr.jpg
.the town i live in has no part that is immune to home invasions or thugs traveling through any part of it .
there are no safe places.
more stuff happens at store's and homes around here than anywhere else.

if all my other deffense's have been expended i always have the
glock 21 in .45 caliber with 13 rounds easily to hand.

better to have them and not need them than to need them and not have them.
the great thing about my country and state is the choice to carry or not to carry is MINE.

you make your choices,mine have been made.

leon

neksmerj
03-18-2011, 11:06 AM
Can't imagine asking what's the best concealed knife to carry.

None, except maybe a Swiss Army knife for the accessories.

Here in Australia, no knives are permitted, nor guns.

Whether we are better off, I don't know, but I would hate to think what could happen in the school ground, if knives were allowed.

Ken

Carld
03-18-2011, 12:42 PM
If I lived in a country that outlawed guns or knives or any weapon to defend my self I would leave. If not able to leave I would be way more trained in Martial Arts than I am.

The problem with making it unlawful for honest civilians to have weapons is the unlawful WILL have weapons because they don't care about what the law says.

EDIT: Are you telling us that it is illegal to own any knife in Australia? I find that hard to believe.

lazlo
03-18-2011, 12:52 PM
Here in Australia, no knives are permitted, nor guns.

That's not true -- 'cause I saw Crocodile Dundee, and he carried a BF knife :D

aboard_epsilon
03-18-2011, 12:58 PM
That's not true -- 'cause I saw Crocodile Dundee, and he carried a BF knife :D

what did he say "now this is a knife"

all the best.markj

Walter
03-18-2011, 01:09 PM
Knives are tools, I carry a pocketknife in a sheath on my belt.

When I was younger I had a concealed carry permit, A Walther PPK lived in a pancake holster over my right kidney. Only Once did I ever feel the need for that gun, to potentially use it against another human being. I didn't have to draw it that night and I'm damn glad. It was purely a defensive situation, someone else's safety on the line.

I don't carry anymore. To each their own.

pgmrdan
03-18-2011, 01:30 PM
Okay, well it's wonderful that so many of you live in Paradise. I was born and raised in a city that had the title "Murder Capital of the U.S." before Atlanta took it. A few years ago it was ranked #1 for violent crime. That same city recently received the title "Most Dangerous City in the U.S." A couple weeks before we moved away I was getting ready to watch the 10:00pm news that had a teaser, "Two dozen shootings in 24 hours. Stay tuned." Yep, lovely little metropolitan area of about 2.5 million people.

We moved out of that metropolitan area about 18 years ago to a nice little rural area; "Is this Heaven?"

One afternoon in November our house in the country on 20 acres was burglarized. Our daughter was in the house in a bedroom. She called 911 and quietly waited 20 minutes for the deputies to arrive. The burglar didn't find her.

My philosophical beliefs are Buddhist. I am about as non-violent a person as you will ever meet. I change the channel on the TV when a program gets violent.

When I was growing up in the afore mentioned city one of my neighbors went nuts and started walking down the sidewalk in our neighbrhood with a loaded shotgun shooting people in their front yards while they were; playing with their dog, mowing their lawn, etc.

In my high school it was not uncommon for students to have a chain, pipe, knife, or loaded handgun in their locker.

When my wife was in high school she worked for a little house window/siding company during the summer. The owner of the company was in his car waiting at a stop light one evening when someone walked up to his car and shot him in the head...dead.

Sorry, but don't try to feed me this crap about staying out of bad areas and away from trouble and everything will be fine and wonderful...la la la la la. B.S.! I already do that.

I've been carrying a Victorinox Tinker SAK ALL THE TIME for 25+ years. For 20+ years before that I carried a Schrade folder that I still have. A knife is a great tool and it's handy to have. I will always carry a pocket knife even when carrying a concealed knife.

Since the burglary I've attended training and received my permit to carry a concealed weapon. I hope I'll never need to even show a weapon but if I need it it's there.

IMHO, every law abiding citizen should at least think about the possibility of getting a permit and carrying a weapon if they have that option available to them.

My wife will be the first to tell you that I literally agonized over whether or not to get a permit and a handgun. It goes completely again my beliefs in how things should be, i.e., 'violence only begets violence' and 'live and let live'. I've been around long guns all of my life but I've never purchased/owned a handgun until a couple months ago. I hate handguns. But in a world with criminals a handgun is becoming a necessary evil for law abiding citizens.

I'm sitting in my house right now with a loaded handgun and extra ammunition within a short distance. I have a loaded 12ga with an 18.5" barrel and a pistol grip tucked away for easy access. There's another shotgun and shells hidden away for the ladies in the house. Am I afraid? Hell no! I'm prepared!!!

Did you see what the brains behind the Petit home invasion in Connecticut said? If the family had shown any resistance he said they would have left but the family didn't have a plan.

PeteM
03-18-2011, 01:51 PM
Can't imagine asking what's the best concealed knife to carry.

None, except maybe a Swiss Army knife for the accessories.

Here in Australia, no knives are permitted, nor guns.

Whether we are better off, I don't know, but I would hate to think what could happen in the school ground, if knives were allowed.

Ken

FWIW, Australia has about 1/4 the homicide rate of the US. So, you could reasonably claim to be better off.

The US is probably in a situation where you can't turn back the clock. Guns are so widely available, lots of folks feel they need to be as well armed as the criminals.

8ntsane
03-18-2011, 02:13 PM
I figure some of you guys must carry a knife and maybe a handgun too.

What's a good knife to carry? (BTW, I can carry legally.)

I'd really like a fixed blade that I can carry in a sheath in my front pants pocket. The new Buck 113 Ranger Skinner looks fairly good but the handle can be slick. I have a Buck Vanguard I really like but it's just a bit big.

I have an older (30+ years) Schrade LB7 that's a really nice knife for a lockback but it would be pretty slow in a pinch.

What do you think?

Thanks.
Go to bucklehead.com
Nothing much faster than this.

jlrii
03-18-2011, 07:33 PM
doublepost

jlrii
03-18-2011, 07:38 PM
I've had a concealed carry permit for better than 5 years now but have never carried. I originally got it when the laws changed and what I owned was now considered high capacity and could not be owned with a target and practice licence I had. This being said I would carry if the area went down hill. Thoughts of up and leaving your homestead because you are afraid is a little too sheepish for me, and also, for a lot of people, not possible. It appears to me violent crime has more to do with demographics than gun ownership. Desperate people do desperate things. Washington DC would be a good example, it has for a long time had the most restrictive gun laws in the nation and one of the highest violent crime rates. This did not improve until the economic revitalization projects in the late 90's that actually brought crime rates to a 20 year low. Kids brought up in that environment assume no life is worth any more than they envision their's being worth, see no future and see nothing to loose. That being said I would never show a weapon unless I truly had no other choice and I intended to use it.

My 2 ˘

JR

tumutbound
03-18-2011, 07:54 PM
EDIT: Are you telling us that it is illegal to own any knife in Australia? I find that hard to believe.

It's not illegal to own a knife in Australia, it's just illegal to carry one.

Bob Fisher
03-18-2011, 07:56 PM
Does this thread have ANYTHING to do with machining? Bob Fisher.

Black_Moons
03-18-2011, 08:28 PM
It's not illegal to own a knife in Australia, it's just illegal to carry one.

"Thats not a knife.. THIS, is a knife!" (Pulls out machete)

No really, Australia seems like a country where id think walking around without a knife would be stupid. Or at least, a big stick. Something at least. Too many animals that think we look tasty. Or at least, look highly susceptible to venoms.

tumutbound
03-18-2011, 08:33 PM
No really, Australia seems like a country where id think walking around without a knife would be stupid. Or at least, a big stick. Something at least. Too many animals that think we look tasty. Or at least, look highly susceptible to venoms.

A knife is going to be pretty useless against snakes and spiders :)

Black_Moons
03-18-2011, 08:46 PM
Well, You could use it on yourself to open the wound to drain the venom.. Or amputate :P

mike4
03-18-2011, 08:50 PM
It's not illegal to own a knife in Australia, it's just illegal to carry one.
That may be correct ,I am not about to debate the issue , but I carry a Leatherman in a holster on my belt .

I have been made remove it when flying but on no other occasion ,because I live in an area where the "safety nazis" dont rule the roost.

The local police know that it is part of my toolkit , I wore it in full view when working at the local police stations, no problems .
Any place that tells me that I cant carry it usually drops of my visit list

There are far too many people who want to call tools weapons , whats next restraints on our legs and arms????

A pen can be lethal if used correctly .And I dont mean writing with it either.

Any way lets get back to machining and machines.

Michael

madman
03-18-2011, 09:13 PM
You all paranoid or what?? Us Canadians dont carry Knives or Guns , when push comes to shove and youre a dumb **** we just punch youre ****in face in . No Problem. Were not cowards and pack handguns or knives???? Im wondering where this off topic **** is going?? I thought this was a Machine Shop Forumn???? I do know when im in the states i see a lot of really insecure scared americans carrying guns. Well stay in the USA you really would be scared up here. You cant walk around with a Gun or Knife>> Good Maybe but .. too many guns in the states and too many IDIOTS carrying them. Just everyones opinion around here up in Canada. Still nothing wrong with a Old Fashioned Beating. Dont have to kill anyone... No wonder thetyre building more prisons every year for all you idiots waiting to do the 24- 7 one hour a day thing??? MAN YOU SCARE ME Mike

Racebrewer
03-18-2011, 10:02 PM
I live in the US on the Canadian border.

Canadians are a lot more sensible and reasonable.

Ontario is down right pleasant. Quebec is a bit funkier, but more fun.

However, overall Canadians are just as brave, stubborn, proud and forthright as Americans. They just don't get as over the edge as Americans (see reasonable above).

John

PS: Love Tim Hortons and St. Hubert Chicken! We just got stuck with Dunkin and Kentucky Fried.......

gambler
03-18-2011, 10:13 PM
You all paranoid or what?? Us Canadians dont carry Knives or Guns , when push comes to shove and youre a dumb **** we just punch youre ****in face in . No Problem. Were not cowards and pack handguns or knives???? Im wondering where this off topic **** is going?? I thought this was a Machine Shop Forumn???? I do know when im in the states i see a lot of really insecure scared americans carrying guns. Well stay in the USA you really would be scared up here. You cant walk around with a Gun or Knife>> Good Maybe but .. too many guns in the states and too many IDIOTS carrying them. Just everyones opinion around here up in Canada. Still nothing wrong with a Old Fashioned Beating. Dont have to kill anyone... No wonder thetyre building more prisons every year for all you idiots waiting to do the 24- 7 one hour a day thing??? MAN YOU SCARE ME Mike

I find it hard to believe all 300 canadians think like you.:D

Your Old Dog
03-18-2011, 10:24 PM
............................ I do know when im in the states i see a lot of really insecure scared americans carrying guns.............................................. ..........

Like a rug madman, that's how you lie. 99% of carried handguns in the US are carried concealed unless you are a cop. Who and the hell are you trying to kid? Why don't you just sit back and let the men talk civil instead of coming in here trying to veer the discussion off course to an all out war?

jkilroy
03-18-2011, 10:37 PM
If you are stuck in the wrong end of town, wrong side of the tracks, wrong part of the state, or wrong part of the country and can't afford to move, then by all means carry a knife, I like mine in .45

Carld
03-18-2011, 11:11 PM
Madman is just a madman trying to get your dander up. Just ignore him he is harmless as he said he is. Besides, if he comes to the US and is robbed he is helpless. Hell, he's helpless in Canada unarmed.

If you don't want to carry a knife or gun don't, but don't bitch at others that want to. It serves no useful purpose to do that.

OT issues are acceptable here. We discuss a lot of things here, not just machining.

Deus Machina
03-19-2011, 12:26 AM
Just another quick note...

All the CCL holders I know are the most down-to-earth, polite people. I, myself, consider myself a 'utilitarian pacifist'. Never start a confrontation, end it with distance, and violence does beget violence--but take note of how there's only two steps to that phrase. ;)

A true pacifist, IMO, does not let a violent man apply violence and leave without putting up a fight. If he is able and forced to, he ends it then and there. The violent man only gets more violent until he is stopped--very preferably with handcuffes, thank you--and I always ask the people that declare "I would rather be stabbed than fight back" to explain that to the next person that man stabs and ask their opinion on it.

Be nice, be polite, have a kind word or a closed mouth. Live and let live. Me, I prefer being able to enforce that philosophy if the time comes.

wierdscience
03-19-2011, 02:51 AM
FWIW, Australia has about 1/4 the homicide rate of the US. So, you could reasonably claim to be better off.

The US is probably in a situation where you can't turn back the clock. Guns are so widely available, lots of folks feel they need to be as well armed as the criminals.

There is some irony here,the places with the strickest gun control laws are the places with the highest murder rates,namely inner cities.Also ironic is the fact that as gun laws have been repealed the murder rate and the overall crime rate has gone down,not up.Criminals think twice when there is a good chance of being shot.Granny is helpless against a 250lb attacker unarmed,but more than equal if she is packing a .38.

In a nation of 300,000,000+ with over 190,000,000 firearms(most owned by law abiding citizens) in 2008 we had a grand total of 11,600 gun related homicides.Your odds of being hit by a drunk driver are higher both here and in Australia,no move on here to ban Booze,at least not yet.

Our murder rate is what it is because of human nature and failed social engineering.If we hadn't enganed in the War on Poverty we would have a lot more money and a lot less crime of all types.In a nutshell the first murder was more than likely commited with a rock long before guns were on the scene.

Murder is still a concious act commited by a person or persons and inflicted on another reguardless of the weapon used.

Your Old Dog
03-19-2011, 07:28 AM
I'm kind of pleased to be associated with a forum in which so many members believe in trying to defend their families instead of cowering behind a 911 phone and hoping someone else will happen along to save them or their loved ones. For us in the US, these are the kind of forefathers that made this country.

Remember, while we've had some crime along the way and some illegal handguns may have killed maybe 12,000 last year, more then 189.988.300 hurt no one and in fact may have saved more lives then were taken.

I'm done on this topic, for the most part it's been an enjoyable read to me.

1-800miner
03-19-2011, 10:27 AM
At the going away dinner for my son, who was shipping out for Iraq, I gave him the gift of my fathers K-bar. It had allready seen Korea and Veit Nam.
Before giving it to him I had it laser engraved.
I told him that I was quite happy if he came home as a live coward rather than a dead hero. That the knife was a last resort,used only to save his life,and that he had to use it,be sure to follow the instructions that I had engraved on the backbone.....CUT & RUN
Thankfully the knife was never used. And my son came home...a grown man.

1-800miner
03-19-2011, 10:43 AM
My brother does power plant shut downs all over the world.
He was telling me that no employee or subcontractor is allowed to carry a pocket knife on a General Electic jobsite.
Because there is no official saftey training program for them.
I have to wonder if forks in your lunchbox will be next on the list.

jugs
03-19-2011, 02:31 PM
Madman is just a madman trying to get your dander up. Just ignore him he is harmless as he said he is. Besides, if he comes to the US and is robbed he is helpless. Hell, he's helpless in Canada unarmed.

If you don't want to carry a knife or gun don't, but don't bitch at others that want to. It serves no useful purpose to do that.

OT issues are acceptable here. We discuss a lot of things here, not just machining.

And it's good to get lots of opinions, http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-talk002.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
but is a home shop machinist forum really the place to get proper info on the carrying of knifes, http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-violent110.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

there are forums dedicated to that sort if thing HERE (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=knife+forums)

john

:)

pgmrdan
03-19-2011, 02:43 PM
“It’s a little embarrassing to have spent one’s entire life pondering the human situation and find oneself in the end with nothing more profound to say than…try to be a little nicer”. Aldous Huxley

“My religion is very simple. My religion is kindness.” Dalai Lama

pgmrdan
03-19-2011, 03:10 PM
A few people here have suggested I visit some blade forums for advice. I have. Some of the advice has been good but much hasn't. Unfortunately quite a few "mall ninjas" hang out on the blade forums with some very bad advice.

I'm not looking for a knife with a gut hook or a serrated edge that the "mall ninjas" seem to think are requirements for a knife. (That reminds me, last night at the gun & knife show (550 tables) I was talking with an acquaintence of mine that sharpens knives there. He was telling me about the large number of people that bring him knives with serrations that ask him to grind them off.)

Over the decade that I've been a member of this forum I've received some excellent advice on many off topic threads. When I want to get some excellent advice and don't mind wading through a bit of not-so-excellent advice I come here.

Anyway, after 3 hours of looking at the show I really didn't see any knife that I really wanted to buy that suits this purpose. I did see a nice little custom knife that came close and the Buck 113 was the only production knife that came close. So, close but no cigar.

At this point I'm staying with my Buck Vanguard until I find something a bit smaller that I like. With its extremely solid construction, grippy rubber handle, Buck's outstanding 100+ year reputation (I've had a Buck 103 Skinner for 40+ years and it's still in excellent condition. I can't think of another manufacturer in the price range that comes close to Buck. I will admit that I would make a couple of changes to improve a couple of Buck knives I own.), and nicely shaped blade it will pretty much suit my need even if it is just a tad large for carrying in my pocket.

Thanks to all for your advice.

MasterMaker
03-19-2011, 04:17 PM
Wow!!
6 pages of mostly anything but answering the OP.

A personal favorite of mine that is much to large for pocket carry is the CRKT first strike.
In general I can recommend CRKT but for pocket carry it sounds like a subcom(Boker) knife would be just what you are looking for.

http://www.knivesplus.com/media/BK-BO591.jpg

If this is to large then maybe this one would be a better fit.
http://www.weloveshopping.com/shop/knifearmchair/BO012.jpg

lazlo
03-19-2011, 05:03 PM
A few people here have suggested I visit some blade forums for advice. I have. Some of the advice has been good but much hasn't. Unfortunately quite a few "mall ninjas" hang out on the blade forums with some very bad advice.

That's the problem with asking for a knife to carry for self defense. Half the people will tell you you're just going to get yourself killed -- if you have to carry a weapon, carry a gun. The other half are Mall Ninjas who will recommend the latest Tacticool knife. ;)


Since the burglary I've attended training and received my permit to carry a concealed weapon.

I'm sitting in my house right now with a loaded handgun and extra ammunition within a short distance. I have a loaded 12ga with an 18.5" barrel and a pistol grip tucked away for easy access. There's another shotgun and shells hidden away for the ladies in the house.

Then why do you need a knife?

By the way, I remember you asking here for a handgun recommendation -- what did you end up getting?

cuemaker
03-19-2011, 05:35 PM
A few people here have suggested I visit some blade forums for advice. I have. Some of the advice has been good but much hasn't. Unfortunately quite a few "mall ninjas" hang out on the blade forums with some very bad advice.

Its the same with any forum with advice and info, you must do your best to pick out the good from the bad and decide what works for you...

sansbury
03-19-2011, 09:25 PM
Mall ninja! Never heard that before, I'll definitely be using that again.

http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/

What would we call the equivalent here? "Forum machinists?"

Silverback
03-19-2011, 11:12 PM
Why do you have to be crazy or insecure to carry a knife (or gun or whatever)? They're just tools, how you use them determines what kind of person you are, not that you have them.

Anyway, I think a fixed blade is a mistake for a EDC, they're just too big and awkward by the time they're big enough to be useful, where you can get a pretty decent side locking folder that fits well in a pocket, is light enough that you won't even notice you're carrying it and can pull it out just as fast as a lockblade.

In my case I rotate through a few depending on my mood, where I'm going and what I'm wearing, including a kersaw ken onion vapor, kabar doser spear point, gerber ripstop, buck stockman style knife, an old kline lockblade and even a "rough rider" barlow knockoff.

If I'm dressed up the Gerber ripstop is probably the best, it's clip puts it lowest in the pocket, it's lighter than the rest (well maybe the kabar might be lighter, it's close). Honestly, the chineese knockoff rough rider barlow knockoff actually keeps the best edge and is probably the best build of the bunch, but it's the least practical for a daily carry also. The Kershaw is the biggest, but it's not the worst to carry, but it does sit a little high in the pocket with it's clip design, it's the only one that is really obvious what I have in my pocket.

In general, I don't like serrated knives, tantos or any of the mall ninja knives, I like a nice drop point, may be a clip point, curved edge... that is actually useful for every day use.

pgmrdan
03-20-2011, 01:33 PM
I did mention earlier my Schrade LB7 lockback. Very nice knife. My only concern is the fixed blade is faster but most likely if it comes to pulling a weapon the gun comes out first.

After I mentioned the shotguns someone asked why I need a knife. Well, although I can legally carry a concealed rifle and a concealed shotgun when in town I'd rather not. :)

Bob D.
03-20-2011, 01:38 PM
Just wanting to answer the OP's question and not trying to engage in a debate, I have always relied on a good locking folder for "what if" situations. I worked nearly 30 years in the largest and one one the most dangerous cities in NJ ( Newark) and always carried a good locking folder, along with a Swiss Army Knife. I used both on my job and could justify possession if I had to, although they are both legal for anyone to carry here, whereas a CCW permit is impossible for a mere mortal to obtain.

If you don't subject it to heavy use, I like the Spyderco knives with the big hole in the blade to assist opening. After a few years of constant use, the lockback feature became unreliable from usual wear and tear. I switched to a Benchmade AFCK

http://www.benchmade.com/products/800-1001

It does everything I ever needed at work and one time on my way home I had to draw it to show 9 juveniles who caught me alone on the street that they should pick an easier victim, the back few thought I was reaching in my waist for a gun and ran away, the front 2 yelled all I had was a beeper in my hand but when the blade flicked out and I smiled at them the rest all beat feet- end of story...
I'm retired and live in a relatively safe area, but I have the AFCK with me every day, all day.
It's easier and safer to carry and just as fast to deploy as a fixed blade knife, so I would ask you to to consider a good reliable locking folder as an option.

kendall
03-20-2011, 04:02 PM
Please click one of the Quick Reply icons in the posts above to activate Quick Reply.

lazlo
03-20-2011, 04:45 PM
one time on my way home I had to draw it to show 9 juveniles who caught me alone on the street that they should pick an easier victim, the back few thought I was reaching in my waist for a gun and ran away, the front 2 yelled all I had was a beeper in my hand but when the blade flicked out and I smiled at them the rest all beat feet- end of story...

You're very lucky -- that's the only positive outcome in a collection of much worse scenarios: the juveniles could have easily taken the knife from you and killed you with it, or they could have pulled out knives, and you'd be in a 9 on 1 knife fight, or your pocket knife could have been an escalation for one of them to pull a gun, and you're holding a knife in the proverbial gunfight.

Even if you did manage to survive a knife fight with street punks (who very likely have a lot more experience with street fighting than you do), both of you will likely end up with severe cuts and puncture wounds, and that's not going to sit well with a jury: that an older man cut/wounded a juvenile with a knife.

A lot of the training you get in a concealed carry class is instruction on the legalities of defending yourself, and how to end the situation in a way that will be amenable to a jury.

The Artful Bodger
03-20-2011, 05:50 PM
I have been in a few situation where I am sure I would have been toast if I had pulled a gun or a knife, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq.

In one instance when the guy shouted and pointed his AK47 I proffered a hand shake and he put his gun in his left hand and we shook hands.

Dawai
03-20-2011, 09:18 PM
I am a CCL holder, carry a pistol.

There are places where you must go where your pistol can not.. Post office.. where hobos sleep to be warm.. Hospitals for blood tests where gang members surround your "lowered" truck waiting to see "who is driving it".. and.....

My health is failing.. my eye sight, coordination, Karate skills are dwindling.. and my love for fighting has diminished..

I have tried to put all violence out of my heart.. and yet.. I still understand some violent people must be met with violence.. as it is all they understand..

If you want to carry a knife, I ask you get some martial arts training on how to use it, vital points, stick or slash training.

PeteF
03-20-2011, 11:16 PM
Yes I can only imagine how much a threat the hobos must be while trying to keep warm. Good thing you're carrying 'eh!

wierdscience
03-20-2011, 11:37 PM
You're very lucky -- that's the only positive outcome in a collection of much worse scenarios: the juveniles could have easily taken the knife from you and killed you with it, or they could have pulled out knives, and you'd be in a 9 on 1 knife fight, or your pocket knife could have been an escalation for one of them to pull a gun, and you're holding a knife in the proverbial gunfight.

Even if you did manage to survive a knife fight with street punks (who very likely have a lot more experience with street fighting than you do), both of you will likely end up with severe cuts and puncture wounds, and that's not going to sit well with a jury: that an older man cut/wounded a juvenile with a knife.

A lot of the training you get in a concealed carry class is instruction on the legalities of defending yourself, and how to end the situation in a way that will be amenable to a jury.

Nah,street punks are p---ies not Wolves.One smack between the eyes with the butt end of a pool que was all it took to change the minds of four that started in on me once.

The ones you need to worry about are the Crackheads into smash and grab,the home invaders and the stick up artists.In dealing with all three forget the knife and pull the pistol.

As for the legal aspects it is better to be tried by twelve than carried by six;)

PeteF
03-20-2011, 11:37 PM
There is some irony here,the places with the strickest gun control laws are the places with the highest murder rates,namely inner cities.

I'm not going to wade in to some bizarre gun/knife debate on a machinist BB. It comes up here regularly and simply proves that whichever "side" one is on to begin with will be completely unmoved by anything the other "side" says. However I will say that the above is complete BS. The homicide rate in the US is some 4-5 TIMES that of Australia and similar countries with extremely strict gun control laws. If strutting about with a concealed weapon makes you feel good about yourself then that's your business, but please don't justify that by making up BS "statistics" that are completely false.

wierdscience
03-20-2011, 11:48 PM
I'm not going to wade in to some bizarre gun/knife debate on a machinist BB. It comes up here regularly and simply proves that whichever "side" one is on to begin with will be completely unmoved by anything the other "side" says. However I will say that the above is complete BS. The homicide rate in the US is some 4-5 TIMES that of Australia and similar countries with extremely strict gun control laws. If strutting about with a concealed weapon makes you feel good about yourself then that's your business, but please don't justify that by making up BS "statistics" that are completely false.

I wasn't talking about Australia Pete,I could care less what you guys do down under.The stats I brought up were for the US and the USDOJ backs me up.

Much like the healthcare debate comparing the US to other countris is comparing apples and oranges.Not the same demographics.

BTW one such country with "strict gun control laws" is Mexico to our immeadiate south and it's working wonderfully there:rolleyes:

Anti-gun proponets like to make the statement that carrying is driven by an irrational fear,well tuff nuts.As I also correctly pointed out your chances of being killed by a drunk driver are higher even here in the good ole USA.Worry warting about law abiding citizens carrying is also irrational since any idiot can buy a bottle of booze no background check required.:)

wierdscience
03-20-2011, 11:52 PM
Dan,how about the Kabar Little Finn?

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/DBA807-1.html

PeteF
03-21-2011, 12:22 AM
BTW one such country with "strict gun control laws" is Mexico to our immeadiate south and it's working wonderfully there:rolleyes:

MEXICO!!!??? :confused: Owww-kaaaaayyy, now there's a valid comparison :rolleyes:

wierdscience
03-21-2011, 12:56 AM
MEXICO!!!??? :confused: Owww-kaaaaayyy, now there's a valid comparison :rolleyes:

Well you did mention "strict gun control laws":)

There is also a slight of hand in the way numbers are tabulated,atleast there is here.Philidelphia,Pa was one city that got caught,even though they never did change the law.

If a person was beaten or stabbed and later died at the hospital the victim's COD -Cause of Death was listed as aggrevated assualt instead of murder.That skews the numbers in favor of gun control being accepted and continued.

I live in the South,in a smallish town near a major city.Gun crime here is almost unheard of even though almost every household owns atleast one.The last murder we had here was two years ago when an Illegal alien got mad and drunk and then chopped his wifes head off with a Machette.Nobody in the government likes to talk about the crime illegals bring here which accounts for a fair percentage.

The major city near here is New Orleans ,La,the murder rate there is very high,almost 350 last year,most drug related featuring guns and ALL of them were black on black crimes except for a few tourists and shop owners who were killed.It is illegal to carry conceiled or otherwise in Orleans Parish.The local government likes it that way,makes it easier to dream up reason s for more police,more equipment and less rights for the average law abiding citizen.