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al_taka
03-25-2011, 10:14 AM
Laying out my separate shop for clock repair was easy because the tools are generally smaller and fit on a counter top.

Laying out a machine shop so a person with a wheelchair or powered chair can get around and affectionately use the tools and space is a completely different story.
Anybody out there gone through this and would like to share their solutions would greatly be appreciated.

My Powered Chair needs 4 foot wide isles to give me 1/2 foot clearance when I make 360 degree turns. My chair also has a powered seat that goes up 6 inches making it convenient to position myself at the work surface.

roundrocktom
03-25-2011, 10:26 AM
Al - I remember a 'featured shop' article... all benches, mill, etc were set up for a 18" height. The machinist would use a seat/dolly to move around the shop, hence the bench height so his folded legs could slide under the benches, and give him more room to reach.

With a small mill, ad a power draw bar to make changing collets easier.

Hopefully the shop is on the net, and someone will remember it as it had some great ideas for limited reach.

Cobbler
03-25-2011, 11:20 AM
In another 20 years or so, there is a good chance I may be faced with this also. The part that I haven't figured out is how to deal with hot chips falling in your lap.

38_Cal
03-25-2011, 04:10 PM
In another 20 years or so, there is a good chance I may be faced with this also. The part that I haven't figured out is how to deal with hot chips falling in your lap.
Try a canvas shop apron designed to go past your knees when standing. I use one when bullet casting while sitting on a shop stool. I normally wear a shorty shop apron, not only to keep chips out of my pockets & belt line, but to give me a place for my mike, tape measure and 6" rule, plus assorted pencils & pens.

David

form_change
03-25-2011, 04:33 PM
Al, What size and type of equipment are you talking about. One factory I worked at, smaller machines were on height adjustable tables so that employees could adjust for height. This would work for a mini mill say but not for a bridgeport.

Michael

JoeLee
03-25-2011, 04:44 PM
When I was in high school a friend of mine had an uncle that was in a wheel chair from a work related accident. He was a machinest /welder fabricator like most of us are. He and his friends designed his shop by making angle iron framed decks in front of his machine area. The surface was diamond plate. There was a lift or dumb waiter type platform at the front of the deck that he would roll up on and hit the switch. It would raise the platform up to the deck height that was about 18" or so off the floor he then could just roll in front of the machine he wanted to use. as far as his welding bench go and all his other benches they were just lowered to accomodate his seated height. At his welding bench he had a leather apron he would put over his lap to keep from getting burned as he had no feeling in his legs. That is about all I can remember.

JL..........................

chiphead42
03-25-2011, 07:09 PM
How about an overhead crane that could position a seat
anywhere in your shop at what ever hight needed. Controled from the seat.
Maybe a second lift on same track for heavy stuff.
Don't know if this would be practical. chiphead42

sasquatch
03-25-2011, 07:41 PM
This topic is a most interesting and practical question!!!

Could learn much here for a number of us when the day arrives that we cannot get around .

Dr Stan
03-25-2011, 07:43 PM
I wonder if you could get some help with this through the vocational rehab office in your state.

On edit, if you're a disabled vet there should also be some help through the VA. Check with the Vet Rep at the DAV.

Gravy
03-25-2011, 09:09 PM
There's a guy on at least one of the machining forums with some experience. KenWC ("I'm only in it for the parking"). Maybe he can help.

Arthur.Marks
03-25-2011, 10:55 PM
I have one reference who may be of interest to you: Steve Garro, a custom bicycle builder who is in a wheelchair. He uses machinery and has his whole shop set up in an accommodating manner. At the very least, a look through his blog's archives may be informative. He's great with posting pictures.

Here: http://coconinocycles.blogspot.com/

(...built himself an impressive handcycle too :))

al_taka
03-26-2011, 12:26 AM
This topic is a most interesting and practical question!!!
Could learn much here for a number of us when the day arrives that we cannot get around .

This has been a good thread, due to all the Great idea's.

Hopefully that day of being disabled will never come for any of you, but being exposed to a new set of problems caused by disabilities will allow your inventive spirits to succeed teaching anyone your trade. There are many Vets returning, possibly injured that need and want to learn a trade like Machining.

You'll be teaching our next generation, what could be better?

al_taka
03-26-2011, 12:51 AM
Al, What size and type of equipment are you talking about. One factory I worked at, smaller machines were on height adjustable tables so that employees could adjust for height. This would work for a mini mill say but not for a bridgeport.
Michael

Michael,
I'm lucky in so much that height is not an issue, my powered chair raises and lowers me xo I work at kitchen counter height all the way down to 20 inches off the floor.
My question was how z 9 1/2 inch SB lathe, bench top mill/drill by HF, 8 foot table saw, 20 ton press, Miller 180 Tig, Hobart 175 MIG, metal A frame rack, 4 metal office desks all fit together. Its a difficult question, I know. My good friend George says I got 50 lbs of crap in a 5 lb bag. My basement shop space available is only 25 by 30 feet.

I don't think anyone can directly answer my question, but I was looking at how everyone else figured out their space problem to get the most amount of machinery usage in the least amount of area.

Pictures will be Great

form_change
03-26-2011, 03:22 AM
My standard layout rule is heavy objects against the wall, smaller stuff on wheels so it can easily be moved to where it's wanted or out from where it's not.
One thought I did have is that swarf in your tyres could be an issue. Perhaps put down a decking of expanded Al mesh (the sort used for security screens - at least in Australia). They will need to be cleaned out regularly, but hopefully the swarf will fall between so you don't spike your hands/ ruin the floors in the rest of the house.

Michael

Dr Stan
03-26-2011, 08:58 AM
I don't think anyone can directly answer my question, but I was looking at how everyone else figured out their space problem to get the most amount of machinery usage in the least amount of area.

One way is to make a drawing. You can go old school and simply use some graph paper and cut outs of the equipment so you can move them around placing them at appropriate spots. Just do everything at a consistent scale such as 1" = 1'.

Or if you are proficient in CAD do the same as above only in simulation.

al_taka
03-26-2011, 09:01 AM
My standard layout rule is heavy objects against the wall, smaller stuff on wheels so it can easily be moved to where it's wanted or out from where it's not and swarf in your tyres
Michael

Good points,
I've been wanting to move that SB lathe, I'll get a couple of the neighbors and slide it out in the open and against the wall next to the mill.

The tires are solid and need to run on smooth surfaces when making 360's or the rubber will wear out real fast. I have an extra chair that I will start using just for the shop. I sell & service these things so I have several demo's I can use.

Davo J
03-26-2011, 10:13 AM
Not sure if you have seen this thread
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=11136.0

Also Grizzly has a work shop planner.
http://www.grizzly.com/workshopplanner.aspx

Dave

al_taka
03-26-2011, 11:09 AM
Dave, Tom site is incredible. I should get some idea's from him.

Davo J
03-26-2011, 11:24 AM
Good to hear you can get some ideas from him.

Dave

Alistair Hosie
03-26-2011, 04:24 PM
I read a post about a guy who was disabled and made himself a sliding chair on a long frame to move easily from left to right whilst woodturning.
I Imediately made a reasonable facsimile of the same and used it for a while as I have a very bad back.It turned out to be more trouble than it was worth as (A )you couldn't turn easily with it as the tables x motion to and fro did not lend itself easily to the complexity of woodturning where you really need to be able to utilize all 3 axis. I gave up, then whilst at college doing my little retired engineers club/learning thing I tried sitting at a machinsists lathe again I found it too hard to do properly.
However if I had nothing other than severe discomfort at the lathe and was permanently disabled then for sure I would definitely try anything I could to get back into my dear well loved hobbies.I salute all of the people who are in this situation and try desperately to conquer their problems.I am fascinated therefore by this post and others like it so all heart and best wishes to you and anyone in this situation God bless Alistair p.s. I once read about a woodturner who did marvelous turnings of wooden bowls whilst he was blind did it all by feel and also taught others so I am indeed in awe of him.

Cobbler
03-26-2011, 06:18 PM
I think you have hit on something, Alistair. When you absolutely need it, you can overcome. The solution works for the one who needs it but introduces a different set of obstacles for the person who is not quite to that point.

al_taka
03-26-2011, 07:46 PM
Although machining is a relatively new hobby for me, an old past time was building and flying control line model planes.

Being in a chair most of the time made me think I was never going to fly again. So I gave away most of my stuff except for a shoestring stunter. The last couple of years, being egged on by a local club, they convinced me to try it again. I wanted to fly but to my knowledge no one has ever flown from a powered chair. I took two flights in 2009, both crashed, wasn't pretty, I was not used to all the coordination requirements.
Last fall I gave it another go, this was my first flight for the year. A gusty day with the wind coming at me from all different directions.
Boys and girls don't try this at home.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7ZcwO-XwMc

PeteF
03-26-2011, 08:03 PM
Good points,
I've been wanting to move that SB lathe, I'll get a couple of the neighbors and slide it out in the open and against the wall next to the mill.

Sorry I can't help at all with regards the chair, but just shop layout in general I'd actually suggest a slightly different approach to that suggested, and that is to think outside the square ... literally! I think we all get in to this mindset of lining machines up flat against the wall, but often that's NOT the most efficient use of space. When things begin getting real tight, start thinking angles and how you can use space that would otherwise be wasted. For example I'm currently looking at moving a machine so it's at 90 degrees to the wall, and I actually stand in space to use it that would otherwise be wasted, a doorway between two rooms of the workshop. That space obviously has to be kept clear, but nobody uses this space except me, so why not use it as working space. The controls of this machine point in towards the 1m x 1m space that I've now recovered for something for a second purpose. Arranging machines so the working area is shared by multiple machines can be an excellent way of using space more efficiently, however almost always means you need to move away from the traditional way of arranging machines around the wall, and instead to clusters, islands, machines at angles etc.

Hope that provides a little food for thought.

Pete

al_taka
03-26-2011, 08:21 PM
Pete,
Sure does help, conservation and utilization of space is what I'm after.

Gary Paine
03-27-2011, 12:44 AM
A shop organizer I use a three of may be of use in a power chair as well. I found the space behind my lathe inefficiently used because of the motor hanging behind the headstock. From the headstock to the tail end of the lathe, there was empty space behind the machine to the wall about 10 inches wide. I built what look like a heavy bookcase at machine height that just fit this space and fitted non-rotating caster wheels to the bottom. A handle on the tailstock end allows me to roll it out like a big drawer, and a lot of heavy tooling stored there comes to easy access down low where I want it. I use these behind a couple benches as well.

EddyCurr
03-27-2011, 12:57 AM
Last fall I gave it another go, this was my first flight for the year.
A gusty day with the wind coming at me from all different directions.

Boys and girls don't try this at home.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7ZcwO-XwMcYep, looks to me like you've done that once or twice before.
Chair? What chair?

OTOH, RIP - my Cox P40 Warhawk ...

.

al_taka
03-27-2011, 08:27 AM
Yep, looks to me like you've done that once or twice before.
Chair? What chair?
OTOH, RIP - my Cox P40 Warhawk ... .


A long time ago, in a distant galaxy, Dick Kurth taught me how to fly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsBmYlpTxYE

The adrenilin rush is remarkable! I will be competing in Precision Stunt this year at Brodak's Annual Fly-In.

http://www.brodak.com/

Hope to see you there, I'll be the one in the chair. :)

al_taka
03-27-2011, 08:36 AM
A shop organizer I use a three of may be of use in a power chair as well. I found the space behind my lathe inefficiently used because of the motor hanging behind the headstock. From the headstock to the tail end of the lathe, there was empty space behind the machine to the wall about 10 inches wide. I built what look like a heavy bookcase at machine height that just fit this space and fitted non-rotating caster wheels to the bottom. A handle on the tailstock end allows me to roll it out like a big drawer, and a lot of heavy tooling stored there comes to easy access down low where I want it. I use these behind a couple benches as well.

Now we're talk'in, I was wondering about the same thing around my mill. Lots of wasted space for a 22" travel of the X slide. Got to figure swarf control and cleaning accessibility also, thanks for the idea.

Kenwc
05-30-2011, 01:45 PM
Al-Taka...

I'm just now seeing this post. I came here looking for an old post of mine and saw this. Nice to be remembered... :cool:

I sent you a PM.

Ken