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Pherdie
04-16-2011, 05:29 PM
I have a 3/4" PVC line that makes a 50' run from the house across an open yard (leach field) and then splits off in several directions. I buried it about 35 years ago and a lot of changes have occurred through the years, so I'm not quite sure where it runs. I'm losing about a gallon every five minutes. No sign of leaking water, so it may be dumping into the leach field. Tried isolating the line (closing the feed shut off valve at the house) and back pressurizing the line with air (supposed to be easier to hear a leak?). No luck.

Thought about buying some sort of professional leak detection equipment as I will have further need of same, but the gear appears to be unreasonably expensive. My water company is USELESS, so asking for help is a waste of time. I gave thought about a contact mike mounted to a rod driven into the ground, feeding an audio amplifier. Also thought to use a leak detection service, but I've heard less than praise. With the water running, I tried touching hose bibs connected to the line with the tip of a screwdriver and then pushing the handle against my ear to listen for running water. No luck there either. At this point, it seems my only option is to lay a new line, a nightmarish job.

Anyone else have any ideas they can share that might help?

Dr Stan
04-16-2011, 05:35 PM
Well there are those who swear by dowsing (using a divining rod) to find water leaks. Personally I don't know if it works, but who knows. Certainly would not hurt to try and could save digging up your whole back yard.

Rich Carlstedt
04-16-2011, 05:49 PM
Can you block the ends of the pipe, and used compressed air ?
Then you should be able to hear it .
Rich

aboard_epsilon
04-16-2011, 05:53 PM
The water companies around here walk around at 2am with a long steel rod with a megaphone on the end of it ..

they listen for the leaks ..and are more or less have 100 percent chance of finding it ..
they send a contracting crew around within a couple of days of finding it ..
dig the road up ..or use a mole thing ..and fix it within 2 hours.

all the contractors that work for them are very efficient and very fast ..which is unusual in Britain .
http://www.thameswater.co.uk/cps/rde/xbcr/corp/incontent-media-leakbuster.jpg


all the best.markj

Black_Moons
04-16-2011, 06:07 PM
run it for awhile and then poke into the soil to see where its suddenly very damp?

Megaphone thing sounds like a good idea too.

rock_breaker
04-16-2011, 06:15 PM
I have seen dowsing work to a degree but wonder if it would find standing water in the leach field as opposed to the leak.

How deep is your water line burried ? Also can ypu access both ends ?

Your sound amplification may work.

It may be easier to install a new pipe but circumventing the leach field if possible. Other wise you may indeed have a nasty job on your hands.

Just a thought.. would it be possible to run a cleaning snake into the line hoping it may hit the crack in the line and perhaps stopping so you could measure the distance to the interfearance point. This is just a "WAG" but it might work, nothing really lost if it doesn't.

Dan Dubeau
04-16-2011, 06:30 PM
Sounds would probably be the way to go.

Dump some food colouring in the supply line, and wait to see where your grass turns colour :D

lynnl
04-16-2011, 08:16 PM
There are of course companies that do just that.

I paid one last summer something on the order of $2-300 to find my leak. They back-filled the line with some gas (forgotten just what), and detected that.

It seemed a bit expensive, for sure, but the leak was costing me an extra $50-60 a month on my water bill. So I was happy in the long run.

After the leak was found, I then paid the plumber another $150 to fix it. But he gave me the advice to consult with my water company, and show them my past bills, along with his invoice, and the water company retroactively adjusted my bills ...in the form of credits on future bills. So his bill turned out to be a bargain too, since I would never have thought to get a refund on the past bills.

KiddZimaHater
04-16-2011, 09:16 PM
My water company is USELESS, so asking for help is a waste of time
That seems very strange, unless you're surrounded by an endless water source.
Down here in Texas we have drought conditions, and water-restrictions.
If you call the water company and report a leak, they're on it ASAP.

Hal
04-16-2011, 09:25 PM
pherdie

Do a search "finding a water leak in a buried line".
Winchman used math to find his.

Hal

Don Young
04-16-2011, 09:28 PM
Depending on the depth, it may be possible for a common metal detector to trace a steel electricians snake fed into the line. The snake may also detect a partial blockage if the leak is caused by some disturbance of the line, such as by tree roots. You may need to trace it from several ends, depending on the layout.

If you do have to replace it, include a piece of #12 insulated copper wire around it for future detection. Bring the ends of the wire up out of the ground where they are easily found.

Mike Burdick
04-16-2011, 09:31 PM
I have a 3/4" PVC line that makes a 50' run from the house across an open yard (leach field) and then splits off in several directions. ...
50 feet....come on... just replace it! But this time don't go under 1-inch diameter PVC and make sure it's at least schedule 40. When you dig it up make sure you follow the old line as you go so you'll be able to find where it splits off... as that is where you'll most likely find the leak.:o

Gosh 50 feet... one could start at the tap and almost dig that by hand! Good exercise for the heart! Naturally, you'll find the leak near the opposite end you start!:D

Boucher
04-16-2011, 09:37 PM
Fifty feet in backfill over a leach field? I woulld get a shovel and follow the line.
Our water utilities have listening devices that work. They are expensive if they are not readily avaliable. Some of that kind of instrumentation can be rented from the companies that rent expensive surveying equipment. The IR thermometers might give you a clue.

jtrain
04-16-2011, 09:43 PM
I have never tried this or heard of anybody else do this. But put vinegar or something with an odor, and non toxic in the line, and try smelling for it.
Just a thought for an idea.

IanPendle
04-16-2011, 11:02 PM
Being a Brit, I just have to ask. What is a leach field? I thought that US medicine had moved on from using leaches!

Rgds. Ian.

J. R. Williams
04-16-2011, 11:16 PM
The big problem you have with the leak and the pipe being near the sewage drain field is the potential to aspirate in sewage water from the field. I would replace the line with one inch pipe and install it inside another protective pipe.

JRW

RKW
04-16-2011, 11:20 PM
A large expanse of land that contains gravel or filter cloth that has an array of pipe running over it. It is used for dispersing water that contains particulate matter that needs removed before allowing it to leach back into ground water or other large body of water as in waste treatment.

As far as I know, we still use leaches in medicine. Apparently there is no better way to remove excess blood in certain injuries.


Being a Brit, I just have to ask. What is a leach field? I thought that US medicine had moved on from using leaches!

Rgds. Ian.

doctor demo
04-16-2011, 11:25 PM
288 Gallons a day, it's no wonder the lake is filling up so fast:D
Leaks are tough to find, I've been out on jobs digging for a leak detecting co. and one time they had a parking lot looking like it was infested by industrial gophers, after about a dozen holes the customer run them off and of course I was a casualty also. That was a 1-1/2 or 2 inch line and ya could watch the meter spinning but every hole was dry.

Hit it with some high voltage and look for worms exiting the area.:eek:

Steve

IanPendle
04-16-2011, 11:55 PM
Thanks RKW. I learned something new today. In the UK we would call it a soak-away.

Ian.

TGTool
04-17-2011, 12:28 AM
We had a leak last winter on the city's side of the meter so called them and they came out to fix it. They figured it was just there at the meter end since that was where the water was coming up from the pavement joints. Dug down but no joy. The connection was okay, but water was coming out from under the road. Had to get back with headquarters for permission to close the OTHER side of the road and dig there. This is a four-lane that takes rush hour traffic. Plus it's freezing weather which also subracts from the fun. They dug the other side for the main line connection, but there was no problem there either. Finally they figured out the contractor six years ago had put a join in the pipe going under the road (expressly forbidden in the contract) and that had failed so they had to push new pipe across. Took them about two days, plus the extra time for filling and patching the pavement. Probably too late to gig the contractor and I felt sorry for the crew working to midnight in the cold. OTOH, they were probably getting OT pay to warm them up a little. Our tax dollars at work.

RussZHC
04-17-2011, 12:52 AM
I like Boucher's idea


The IR thermometers might give you a clue.

running extra hot or extra cold water and using some type of thermal imaging may also have a shot (if, I suppose, the temp difference between that and the ground temp was enough)

How deep did you bury it?
I work where we have a fairly complex irrigation system and have a couple of leaks a summer, its usually not hard to find the softest spot even after heavy rain...though the leaching field may effect that

jugs
04-17-2011, 01:45 AM
Originally Posted by IanPendle
Being a Brit, I just have to ask. What is a leach field? I thought that US medicine had moved on from using leaches!

Rgds. Ian.






A large expanse of land that contains gravel or filter cloth that has an array of pipe running over it. It is used for dispersing water that contains particulate matter that needs removed before allowing it to leach back into ground water or other large body of water as in waste treatment.

As far as I know, we still use leaches in medicine. Apparently there is no better way to remove excess blood in certain injuries.


Leaches are also used to treat osteoarthritis
We also use maggots to eat decaying flesh SEE HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk4mxs2Kbpk) & clean wounds, as they dont eat good flesh.

Leachfield - It can create an area of marsh, what lives in marshland ? ....... leaches :eek: (& marshmallows :D )


john
:)

winchman
04-17-2011, 03:27 AM
As mentioned earlier, I used math to find the leak in my water line. I was lucky that the leak was in a section of the line where it sloped a bit uphill to the house. That made it easier and more accurate.

The procedure was to shut off water to the line, inject compressed air to drive the water from the high end to where the leak is, measure the volume of water needed to refill the line, and finally calculate the length of line with that volume.


I always thought a leach field was part of a septic tank system, but it may have other uses.

Peter S
04-17-2011, 05:22 AM
Would it be usual for PVC to leak on the glued joins? If so, you could find out the standard pipe lengths and try digging for each join....

RancherBill
04-17-2011, 07:52 AM
Here is what I would do.

Get an electrician's fish tape and insert it into the line.

Then I would dowse (http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/farming/30870) for the tape.

Walk across are perpendicular to where you thing the line might be.

The coat hangers will show you where the line is located.

Dig a hole in the middle of the line do a pressure test and you will know which half of the line is leaking. Go to the mid point of the line repeat the test. etc.

Dowsing works for me at least. I can find water and utilities (gas, electric etc) with great accuracy, my Mom can also. My Sister can walk around for an hour and find nothing. So if it doesn't work for you get someone else to try - it is amazing. It doesn't cost big money either - two coat hangers.

If dowsing sounds flakey, get one of those electrical/data wire tracer/finder things and hook it up to the fish tape that you inserted.

GKman
04-17-2011, 07:55 AM
If the leach field is for a sewage septic system you have a horrible backflow potential. A broken main or a firetruck pumper could apply negative pressure at the leak and pull sewage into the public water system through your lines. Thats why plumbing codes prohibit the installation, period.

gary350
04-17-2011, 07:59 AM
You get a 60 ft roll of soft copper tubing and slide it up inside that PVC pipe then attach it at both ends. Forget about finding the leak.

DougC_582
04-17-2011, 08:12 AM
Dowsing doesn't work.

The earphone-thing would be the cheapest/easiest thing to make, though you'd want to do it late at night when the surrounding noise is the least possible.

Also I wonder... could you make a two-pronged probe, and attach a multimeter to it? Measure the ohms of resistance? It seems to me that dirt that was more-wet should conduct better.

A.K. Boomer
04-17-2011, 09:22 AM
As mentioned earlier, I used math to find the leak in my water line. I was lucky that the leak was in a section of the line where it sloped a bit uphill to the house. That made it easier and more accurate.

The procedure was to shut off water to the line, inject compressed air to drive the water from the high end to where the leak is, measure the volume of water needed to refill the line, and finally calculate the length of line with that volume.


I always thought a leach field was part of a septic tank system, but it may have other uses.


Winchman that's using yer head, unfortunately not everyone has the option of a sloping line and even with a mild slope your at the mercy of how the line was installed (highs and lows) but still - great deductive reasoning skills there,,,

Personally I would invest in a $5.00 mechanics stethoscope from horror fright (well I wouldn't cuz iv already got one)

It's cheap - it covers both ear ports therefore blocking out all surrounding sounds, and it works great, still cant hear it? try filling the pipe up with suds from soapy water and then pressurize it with part water part air --- ever hear a power steering pump that's low on fluid? ---- you get the idea...

Rustybolt
04-17-2011, 09:49 AM
Dowsing?

Really?


Wouldn't it be cheaper to hire a witch?

big job
04-17-2011, 09:58 AM
This is what i did all the time, but we never backfilled until tested and also
laid a copper wire in there for the future. Last one I did, was my own
water line that they the town put there. Being retired cop from here of
course I know all the guys. Rules change superintendents change and
anything from the curb cock is on the owner. My problem was that my
leak found its way and was bubbling up gas station lot across the street.
Water dept tracked it to me. Ok Electronic device will not work with pvc
so one guy comes with two welding rods divining rods which I never beleived
in and Ill be- told me to dig- sure enough. Guess Im a beleiver now. So the
leak was in fact a failed coupling they WDept. did 40yrs ago. So I replaced
this new PVC with this code pipe with copper imbedded wire in it. All I come
up with, I think Don said shove a steel snake in there or get sched. 40 or
80 if they make it that small and snake that in there. So all these new
town codes make sense with wire so their dectors find it someday. Talk
about lucky their dect. picked it up on my lawn (at the curb cock) when
I got there abouts digging (backhoe) main gas line right next to it 3inches.
So I think If you shove a 1/2 line in there that fine before you saturate the
leach field.

Abner
04-17-2011, 01:01 PM
I have had the same problem once. I learned a lot. My line was 1 1/4 sch 40 and the leak was caused by a loaded gravel truck breaking the line on the underside. My leak was also much larger and didn't show up until much latter for unknown or reason I still don't understand.

I ended up "pot holing" the pipe once I had its rough location. Pot holing is multiple holes at intervals. The I stuck my head down the hole and listened. I was going to suggest a stethoscope as your leak is smaller. I simply found which holes had the loudest noise and dug between them.

Having explained what I did I have some suggestions. Replacing the line will most likely be easiest as suggested before. I also second the previous recommendation about sch40 as a minimum.

And to everyone
Now that I have finished burying all anticipated water lines I have a really great idea. Get a roll of flagging tape and lay this 3-4 inches below the surface on top of your pipe run. Crap this would have saved me untold hours.:eek:

AD5MB
04-17-2011, 01:12 PM
there are people who believe that dowsing requires you to be in league with the devil.

the fact that it does not work for you does not mean that it does not work.

an excellent treatise on the subject: The Divining Hand by Christopher Bird

http://www.amazon.com/Divining-Hand-year-old-Mystery-Dowsing/dp/0924608161

metalmagpie
04-17-2011, 01:13 PM
Wouldn't it be cheaper to hire a witch?

HIRE one! I MARRIED one once! (whew, glad THAT's over!)

A.K. Boomer
04-17-2011, 03:49 PM
there are people who believe that dowsing requires you to be in league with the devil.

the fact that it does not work for you does not mean that it does not work.

an excellent treatise on the subject: The Divining Hand by Christopher Bird

http://www.amazon.com/Divining-Hand-year-old-Mystery-Dowsing/dp/0924608161

Iv posted this on here years ago but have to chime in;

Very many years ago I remember a guy who owned the local cloths wash place and he was trying to find the main water line that ran under the floor inside the building that fed all the washers,

he was dowsing using some very nice rods designed just for this,
Iv always been more that just a skeptic - I thought BS, I cannot explain it and never could and im over analytical,
when asked what he was doing he told me and I said "ohh" -- maybe not meaning it but kinda like "yeah right"
He then told me to take the rods and instructed on how to hold them while walking across the floor - I did and everytime I got to this one section where he already had a big X on the floor with marker the rods crossed, i tried it again and again from different approach directions - same story, I tried fighting the rods from crossing and I could not keep them from doing it, not without any obvious signs of struggling.... I would step into it and the rods would start to cross then I would stop and take a step backwards and the rods would start to uncross.
Blew me away --- don't know how but something was going on and I think the rods were aluminum...

Going to go read the site you posted to see if there's a logical explanation...

aboard_epsilon
04-17-2011, 04:03 PM
think there was a post on the PM about dowsing and it reached something like 1000 posts.

where's that popcorn smiley ..

all the best.markj

darryl
04-17-2011, 06:16 PM
One day I noticed my water pump running at night, when no water was being used anywhere. It got worse over the next week or so, then I decided I needed to rectify that. Long story shorter, it came down to a leak between the house and the well. We had a well punched in about 30 yrs previous to this, and I recall the guy actually kinking the plastic pipe in one spot when he was laying it. I was just a kid at the time.

Anyway, the ground was wet at some distance from the house, so that's where I started digging. I kept going- through a field of blackberry bush- until I got past the wetness, and still didn't find the leak. Then I went to the well head and started to dig back from there. When I got to the point where the hose had been kinked, that's where it had developed the leak. I didn't put two and two together until that moment- of course then I was pissed 'cause I'd already dug through the blackberry field. The leaking water had gone underground till it surfaced, which tricked me into digging in the wrong place to start with.

jack3140
04-17-2011, 06:38 PM
Dowsing?

Really?


Wouldn't it be cheaper to hire a witch?
if you caN FIGURE OUT WICH IS WITCH LOL SORRY COULD.NT HELP IT LOL

RancherBill
04-17-2011, 09:25 PM
......I did and everytime I got to this one section where he already had a big X on the floor with marker the rods crossed, i tried it again and again from different approach directions - same story, I tried fighting the rods from crossing and I could not keep them from doing it, not without any obvious signs of struggling.... I would step into it and the rods would start to cross then I would stop and take a step backwards and the rods would start to uncross.
Blew me away --- don't know how but something was going on and I think the rods were aluminum...

We have the same experience!!!!

I used ordinary coat hanger wire bent into an 'L" shape. They were about 18" long and the "handles" were about 4".

I wanted to subdivide my 12 acre property. The previous owner had drilled 3 holes that found 1 GPM wells - not enough for subdivision. I put on my witches hat and walked the whole property. I put down my money - $4,500 and drilled a well the first one was 4 gpm - just what I wanted. the second one was 7 gpm.

I bought another property with the PROFITS from my first witching experience. I witched it again and went 3 for 3 on getting good wells. The driller said it is normal to drill 6 to get three.

My BIL does this witching/dowsing thing with pregnant women. He get their wedding band and suspends the ring on a string over their pregnant bellies. The ring either swings in a line or swings in a circle. One is a boy the other is a girl. He is 100% accurate with over 60 women witched.

danlb
04-18-2011, 12:58 AM
You can buy potted plant moisture meters at the hardware store for a few bucks. They have 12 to 18 inch probes. They might work in that the gound should be wetter within some distance of the leak.

http://www.amazon.com/Luster-Leaf-1810-Rapitest-Moisture/dp/tech-data/B001B2WALI

Dan

Rustybolt
04-18-2011, 07:58 AM
Well, Big Job. if your friend is willing to prove his dowsing ability in a controlled eperiment he can walk away with a million dollars.
The Randy Foundation has a million bucks to anyone who can scientifically prove dowsing works.
Or ESP,
Or aliens from our space exist.
or ghosts.

vincemulhollon
04-18-2011, 02:46 PM
They back-filled the line with some gas (forgotten just what), and detected that.

Helium. Not much in the air normally a couple PPM or so, but most importantly its density is so low it goes virtually straight up unless you're in a hurricane or something.

The dowsers are just playing games... Odd how the dowsing rod just happens to wiggle over the monster truck tire print, what a coincidence.

Forestgnome
04-18-2011, 02:50 PM
Well there are those who swear by dowsing (using a divining rod) to find water leaks. Personally I don't know if it works, but who knows. Certainly would not hurt to try and could save digging up your whole back yard.
You could trace the pipe this way, but I don't see how you'ld find a leak.

plunger
04-18-2011, 03:31 PM
I am a plumber by trade and had to fix a leak on a steep paved driveway to a complex.the water was coming to the surface in a couple of places and so was hard to pinpoint. We called the services of a leak company who pumped the system full of hydrogen gas. But my suspicion was they did this to be able to charge more because it looks impressive and for the layman you think you are paying for fancy equipment.Anyway after the client had to pay $520 upfront I found the leak about 2meters from where they predicted the leak
It got me thinking that I have seen listening devices made out of brass and it looks like a thing one could make in a home workshop. It basically looks like a cylinder enclosed by two brass flanges and hooked up to thin plastic pipes on a stethascope Anyone know what I am referring to?

Paul Alciatore
04-18-2011, 04:24 PM
Seems to me that your main problem is tracing the rout of the pipe. If you had that, you could dig at the half way point and cut and cap it. Then test the ends for the leak. Divide the end with the leak in half and do it again. Etc. till you find it. So, how to trace the line.

I had to find and trace a sewer line a couple of months ago. OK, it is bigger than a water line, but I didn't have a good idea of even which side of the house it was on. I thought it ran out to the street. But instead, it ran out the back. And it was about two feet deep. But with a little persistance, this method worked. Hopefuly your water line will not be that deep. Or perhaps it is deeper if you are far north.

I got a 1/4" x 6' steel rod and "sharpened" one end to a bullet nose shape. This allowed it to penetrate the ground fairly easily, but not the PVC pipe. If your ground is hard or rocky, you may need a larger diameter. I made a Tee style handle from a scrap of wood and a couple of screws. I started probing in areas where I suspected it might be. I used another piece of small diameter PVC with markings every two inches to establish a grid. I rolled it along for the next line to probe. I finally found the pipe and was then able to trace it by probing every two feet or so. I used some wood wedge shaped shims for flags: they are cheap.

I was able to both locate and trace the line this way after Rotor Rooter gave up. Total cost was under $10 plus several hours of my time. It will be more difficult with a water line, but should be possible there too. Probably have to probe on an inch grid or even smaller. It is worth a shot as it probably involves less work than completely replacing the line.

Dr Stan
04-18-2011, 05:04 PM
I got a 1/4" x 6' steel rod and "sharpened" one end to a bullet nose shape.

Now that you mention it I remember seeing a plumber do exactly this.

As to the divining rod, I'm a skeptic, but I also know people who swear by them.

aboard_epsilon
04-18-2011, 05:23 PM
I showed an example of what they do here ..a few posts back ..that is the way the successfully do it here .

if you want to go over the top ..all you need is a mocrophone...and an amplifier ..and a funnel and a pair of ear phones...and go out in the dead of the night.

The guys here can detect escaping water a yard deep and under concrete.

you can even try it in your own house turn on a tap ..even a steady trickle will make a sound in the pipe.

They replaced a pipe not two weeks ago outside my house ..i had the chance to ask them some questions ..
They say that there is a water meter for every few streets ..they take regular readings ..and if the reading goes up ..and is above average ..they then start walking the streets in that area with their devices listening for leaks in the dead of the night..and they will find it.

all the best.markj

atty
04-18-2011, 07:21 PM
I, just like Boomer, had a similar experience with the bent rods, and I also tried to fight the rods, but they came together, nonetheless. Only my mark was not an "X" on the ground, but rather a glass of water sitting on the floor, something clearly visible. I suppose you could say that because you see the glass of water, that you are mentally expecting the rods to cross, and are therefore subconsciously loosening your hands. If I did, it was quite a trick because I was clenching with all I had, but to no avail. They still crossed......and promptly uncrossed once I had passed over the glass.

There is nobody more scientifically grounded in my observations, and I would have to say that little demonstration relegated me to a corner, mumbling to myself for quite a while. So for all the Naysayers of dowsing, let's just toss the whole idea of it and rephrase the question.

What is the scientific explanation of two bent rods crossing while passing over a glass of water sitting on the floor?

Don Young
04-18-2011, 09:27 PM
What is the scientific explanation of two bent rods crossing while passing over a glass of water sitting on the floor?

I don't know the answer to that but I am pretty sure there are a few things still left for scientists to figure out an explanation for. I do not subscribe to "If I do not understand it or it can't be explained scientifically, then it can't exist" although I have no quarrel with those who do.

ironmonger
04-18-2011, 10:12 PM
I have used dowsing or divining rods to locate sewer trenches and buried manhole covers... some times they get buried under landscaping.
Here is my take.
see:
http://www.amazon.com/C-they are used Green-WDDR-Handled-Dowsing/dp/B0037BRMZ0

1. the rods have to be made of magnetic material. Iron or steel
2. the pivot can be wooden, or copper tube or they can be held in your hands and allowed to rotate freely.
3. Allow the rods to hang down slightly in the direction of travel, and parallel to each other and walk with them in front of you.
My suspicion is that the rods are drawn together when a magnetic field is traversed.
I have been able to find both plastic sewer pipes and cast iron pipes under the ground.
I think that the disturbed soil causes the magnetic field of the earth to warp and interact with the iron rods.
Whether or not you believe this works, grab two pieces 1/8" steel weld rod 18" long, bend a 5" handle on a 90 degree angle, hold them as described and walk across a piece of steel and see what happens. It will not find water in my experience, but it may help you find out where the pipes are buried.
All you have to lose is 20 cents worth of weld rod.... you can still weld with them later ...

Paul

doctor demo
04-19-2011, 03:24 PM
What is the scientific explanation of two bent rods crossing while passing over a glass of water sitting on the floor?


The water glass was directly over a pipe or wire in the basement/crawl space.

Steve:)

J. Randall
04-19-2011, 10:12 PM
Big difference in scientifically proving that dowsing works, and just knowing that it can work. Yrs. ago I worked for an oil co., and part of my job was locating pipelines. Was on a job one day where 4 steel pipelines ran parallel to each other and the contractor was going to cross them all at a right angle. Three of us found our lines with no problem, and even though all of us tried with different detectors we all failed, I think because of high mineralization in the ground. An old Mexican that worked for the contractor grabbed a couple of brass welding rods bent in a 90 degree angle and found it first try. It was an 8" steel line 8' deep, and right where he said it was. It made a believer out of me, and I had some success find plastic line using his method over the yrs., seem to work better for me if there was some liquid flow in the lines.
James

Davidhcnc
04-20-2011, 05:42 AM
Since we have moved from a lost pipe to divining rods......

Well, I suppose the clue is in the name.

Divination ,from Latin divinare "to foresee, to be inspired by a god"

It is not magnetic anything. Proof?

Traditionally, the most common dowsing rod is a forked (Y-shaped) branch from a tree or bush. Some dowsers prefer branches from particular trees.

I have never witnessed water or other underground search divination although I do believe that it works for some people and have had reliable accounts.

I call it witchcraft and lump it in with charming warts, hypnosis etc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divining

Rustybolt
04-20-2011, 08:21 AM
Unless it can be repeated under laboratory conditions, it isn't anything more than random chance.
So far no one has been able to make it(dowsing) work under controlled conditions.

atty
04-20-2011, 10:52 AM
The water glass was directly over a pipe or wire in the basement/crawl space.

Steve:)

Unfortunately, it was a 4" slab of concrete consisting of a back porch. I was there for the construction, so I'm very familiar with what was underneath. Didn't see him put any magnets in either. :D

Paul Alciatore
04-20-2011, 01:45 PM
Unless it can be repeated under laboratory conditions, it isn't anything more than random chance.
So far no one has been able to make it(dowsing) work under controlled conditions.

I have a background in physics and played with this a little bit. The problem is in the "controlled conditions". The design of the rods is such that they are extremely sensitive to very small variations in the pivots that are holding them. Basically, you have two vertical (or near vertical) shafts that are relatively free of friction. And at a right angle to these shafts you have long horizontal rods. Assuming that the horizontal shafts are facing forward, if the vertical pivot axies are tilted even slightly backwards, the balance becomes unstable and the rods can and will rotate in random directions. Therefore a backwards tilt must be avoided or the movement of the rods will be random. If the vertical axies are exactly vertical (unlikely if held by a walking person) the rods will be in neutral stability and any slight outside force will easily act on them again providing random results like above. This also must and will be avoided by a person using them.

The only remaining choice, deliberate or otherwise, for the person to take is to hold the vertical pivots tilted "slightly" forward. This will tend to keep the rods pointing forward when they are confronted by outside forces, like air currents. This is what they must do while walking around the area.

So, how do they come to be attracted to each other. It is possible that the presence of water would have an effect on the earth's magnetic field or on other EM fields in the area and this effect could possibly cause the rods to come together. But with a person holding the two rods in two hands, there is NOTHING to prevent those hands to tilt either toward or away from each other and thus controlling the motion of the rods. It is super easy to do this and not exhibit any visible motion. It is super easy to do this and not even be aware that you are doing it.

This does not constitute a controlled condition experiment. A properly controlled experiment could be devised. A section of elevated floor that is extremely flat and level could be constructed. A wheeled device could be built to hold the rods. Motorized and radio controlled. A bucket of water could be located at random positions below this floor by one person. A second person would control the wheeled robot with the rods. This second person would try to find the water. A third person would then evaluate the accuracy of the find. A series of "control" runs would be made in which someone would simply try to guess the location of the water without any rods or any other mechanism. Perhaps a reward would be offered for success.

Complicated? Yes. But a lot more scientific than just someone saying, "It works for me."

biometrics
04-20-2011, 03:00 PM
The pipe run is 50 feet? :confused: What I see is your are putting all this effort into trying to patch a 50 foot run of plastic pipe that is 35 years in place under the ground? :eek:

Go to home depot or the big box home improvement store of your choice and buy enough schedule 40 pipe and glue to replace it all... While you are at it, buy yourself a new spade that you can use in the garden when this project is over.

Dig a new trench and abandon the old pipe and trench, lay your NEW pipe that will last at least another 35 years and be done with it... Lay a 12 gauge strand of copper wire with it so you can find it with a metal detector if you ever have to... problem solved.

TGTool
04-20-2011, 05:10 PM
So, how do they come to be attracted to each other. It is possible that the presence of water would have an effect on the earth's magnetic field or on other EM fields in the area and this effect could possibly cause the rods to come together. But with a person holding the two rods in two hands, there is NOTHING to prevent those hands to tilt either toward or away from each other and thus controlling the motion of the rods. It is super easy to do this and not exhibit any visible motion. It is super easy to do this and not even be aware that you are doing it.


Well, there is the possibility that it works in exactly that way. A person does tilt the pivots unconsciously at the right time and place in response to something outside of conscious control.

I'm an agnostic on this. I've never seen it done but have talked to people who swear by it. If it's to be investigated rigorously the search net might need to be thrown over a larger area. It's demonstrable that we're affected by insidious advertising ploys (unconsciously) and by persons nearby in certain ways (that horny chick at the next table) so what other influences are there for good or ill? Just wondering.

914Wilhelm
04-20-2011, 05:35 PM
This whole divining rod thing makes me recall my childhood and my eccentric uncles place in it. He was an electrician and frequently witched underground wires and pipes. One Easter he had us place Easter eggs on divining rods and then had us walk back and forth in a room to find the person in the family concealing the hidden Easter egg. Was it science? Did we unconsciously respond to the egg hiders "tell?" Was it luck? Did everyone have an egg? I don't know but I guess the same game will provide grampa some entertainment this Easter with my 7 and 8 year old boys.

aboard_epsilon
04-20-2011, 06:26 PM
The pipe run is 50 feet? :confused: What I see is your are putting all this effort into trying to patch a 50 foot run of plastic pipe that is 35 years in place under the ground? :eek:

Go to home depot or the big box home improvement store of your choice and buy enough schedule 40 pipe and glue to replace it all... While you are at it, buy yourself a new spade that you can use in the garden when this project is over.

Dig a new trench and abandon the old pipe and trench, lay your NEW pipe that will last at least another 35 years and be done with it... Lay a 12 gauge strand of copper wire with it so you can find it with a metal detector if you ever have to... problem solved.

The houses across the road from me are 101 years old ..and the black iron pipes are only just failing now ..so whats plastic for...36 years is suposed to be nothing to them ..main enemy of plastic is sunlight.

all the best.markj

Jpfalt
04-21-2011, 12:40 AM
I suppose you could put a small balloon on the end of a 50 foot piece of 1/4 aquarium tube and pull it through the pipe with a fishtape. Blow up the balloon andgravity feed a leak test. Pull the tube out a foot at a time and repeat. When the leak stops, pull out the tube, lay the length that was in the pipe on the ground and dig where the balloon ends up.

If you decide to replace the whole thing, put a steel slug on the fishtape and locate it with a metal detector over the lenght of the pipe. Then slot the ground with a dull chainsaw (it really works!) on either side of the pipe and lift the pipe and soil on the pipe. Drop in new pipe, drop in soil and voila! Done. The dull chainsaw suggestion came from the technical service manager of a leading outdoor power equipment company. He laid a sprinkler system for the cost of a replacement saw chain.

ptjw7uk
04-21-2011, 04:08 AM
How about using POPIE to find the leak.
http://www.redskye.co.uk/index_files/S5000.htm
or http://www.electro-tech-online.com/general-electronics-chat/28755-finding-break-underground-wire-2.html
certainly works as that was what we used to find cable serving faults in the mid sixties.
Only problem tha I can see is you would need to isolate the pipe from other peoles supplie!
Just a thought, as original OP has not been back

peter

RTPBurnsville
04-21-2011, 12:42 PM
Then slot the ground with a dull chainsaw (it really works!) on either side of the pipe and lift the pipe and soil on the pipe. Drop in new pipe, drop in soil and voila! Done. The dull chainsaw suggestion came from the technical service manager of a leading outdoor power equipment company. He laid a sprinkler system for the cost of a replacement saw chain.

That is a very interesting idea.....

A.K. Boomer
04-21-2011, 12:59 PM
Don't know if everyone else lives on a sod farm or what but that idea would not yield you one foot where I live (colo.) before you hit a rock and trash your chain/bar/ and sprockets...

I run a ditchwitch trencher with massive carbide teeth and even it has a tough time esp. when I de-rail the chain on boulders...

Paul Alciatore
04-21-2011, 01:01 PM
.....

Then slot the ground with a dull chainsaw (it really works!) on either side of the pipe and lift the pipe and soil on the pipe. Drop in new pipe, drop in soil and voila! Done. The dull chainsaw suggestion came from the technical service manager of a leading outdoor power equipment company. He laid a sprinkler system for the cost of a replacement saw chain.

Do wear coveralls! And a face shield or at least goggles.

ligito
04-21-2011, 01:13 PM
I suppose you could put a small balloon on the end of a 50 foot piece of 1/4 aquarium tube and pull it through the pipe with a fishtape. Blow up the balloon andgravity feed a leak test. Pull the tube out a foot at a time and repeat. When the leak stops, pull out the tube, lay the length that was in the pipe on the ground and dig where the balloon ends up.

If you decide to replace the whole thing, put a steel slug on the fishtape and locate it with a metal detector over the lenght of the pipe. Then slot the ground with a dull chainsaw (it really works!) on either side of the pipe and lift the pipe and soil on the pipe. Drop in new pipe, drop in soil and voila! Done. The dull chainsaw suggestion came from the technical service manager of a leading outdoor power equipment company. He laid a sprinkler system for the cost of a replacement saw chain.

And when the balloon falls off inside the pipe?

The Artful Bodger
04-21-2011, 03:27 PM
I have not read all the pages but maybe you could put something in the water and have a dog sniff out the leak?

Jaakko Fagerlund
04-21-2011, 03:45 PM
I have not read all the pages but maybe you could put something in the water and have a dog sniff out the leak?
Yeah, insert some cocaine in the pipe and call DEA :D

About dowsing: This scam will not work, it has the same chance than praying for the waterline to jump out of the ground or something silly like that. Sure, it doesn't cost nothing but time to waste time, but there are actually methods (like the chainsaw idea) that really work as supposed to.

gary350
04-21-2011, 06:52 PM
Specific listening device the Gen-Ear made by General Wire Spring Co. for finding water leaks underground

Peter S
04-21-2011, 08:28 PM
Then slot the ground with a dull chainsaw

I guess if you didn't have a dull chain, no problem, dull chain coming up.....

I know a chap who used his chainsaw buried to the hilt in the ground to remove bamboo required for transplant. Just remember this when someone wants to borrow your saw. :eek:

atty
04-21-2011, 08:55 PM
And when the balloon falls off inside the pipe?


I think it would be safe to assume that the balloon would be deflated at that point, thus no greater impediment than the rest of the material flowing through the pipe......and easily retrievable.

Pherdie
04-30-2011, 12:06 AM
At the risk of reviving this thread, I want to thank all who took the time to offer assistance with their ideas. I did try many of the suggestions, but to no avail. I also had the old line 'witched' by a self anointed 'expert'. His accuracy increased markedly once I showed him where the line was approximately buried ;) .

Sooooooo, I did take one suggestion to heart. I'm now installing a new line and using the "opportunity" to make other needed improvements.

Again, thanks to all,

Fred

grizz71
05-19-2014, 10:18 AM
At the risk of reviving this thread, I want to thank all who took the time to offer assistance with their ideas. I did try many of the suggestions, but to no avail. I also had the old line 'witched' by a self anointed 'expert'. His accuracy increased markedly once I showed him where the line was approximately buried ;) .

Sooooooo, I did take one suggestion to heart. I'm now installing a new line and using the "opportunity" to make other needed improvements.

Again, thanks to all,

Fred

It is too bad that no one thought of the simplest & least expensive solution: Use electricity to find the leak
1) PVC pipe is an insulator
2) Water conducts AC electricity
3) Wet soil conducts electricity

Simply install a 24 Volt transformer at the well pump, between the metal water faucet and a ground probe (such as rebar) pounded 4 feet into the earth. If your well pump is inside a metal casing, use that for your transformer ground connection.
Run a long wire from the above ground connection to 1 wire on your multi-meter.
Connect the 2nd wire on the multimeter to a metal ground probe.

Now just walk around probing the earth for the maximum AC voltage. When you find the peak voltage, that is where to dig for the water leak. You can zero into the best spot to dig by placing a resistor across the wires of the meter. Use a 1,000 ohm potentiometer. This provides an adjustable load to the current coming through the wet soil, where the wettest soil carries the highest current (and voltage).

Grizz71

Blackadder
05-19-2014, 10:44 AM
you will not be able to listen for the leak because its a PVC pipe the leak from that is very quiet unlike a cast iron or steel pipe

there was a bit on the news here in the UK about a water company that had invested in some new gear to solve that very problem

Stuart

grizz71
05-19-2014, 10:53 AM
you will not be able to listen for the leak because its a PVC pipe the leak from that is very quiet unlike a cast iron or steel pipe

there was a bit on the news here in the UK about a water company that had invested in some new gear to solve that very problem

Stuart

Stuart,
You don't have to listen to the pipe. That is silly. Simply measure for voltage at the leak site if it is a PVC Pipe:
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/47605-O-T-How-to-find-an-Underground-Water-Leak?p=920312#post920312

Grizz71

Black Forest
05-19-2014, 12:14 PM
WE had a leak two years ago. It was in the line from our well to the house. 1000 meters of plastic pipe with one shutoff at the lowest point in the middle of the run. I hired a man to come find the leak. He had a bunch of very sophisticated equipment and found the leak pretty quickly. He did the helium thing. Also he had some machine with a stethoscope and he let me listen. It was quite clear to hear. Was very interesting to watch him work. He found the leak within two meters of the hole in the pipe. When I dug with my excavator as I got near the place where he said the leak was the water started shooting 30 feet in the air. I was impressed. The town manager recommended him to me. The bill came to a little over 500 Euros if I remember correctly. I am a little foggy on the details but I remember I was very impressed and happy to pay him.

dp
05-19-2014, 08:14 PM
Everyone stopped thinking about the problem in April of 2011 when this thread went quiet.

kendall
05-20-2014, 12:46 PM
Actually, I'll give a thank you to whoever resurrected the thread, I need to find a leak in my main line from the pump, so this gave me a few ideas to use!

gambler
05-20-2014, 03:03 PM
it's not the rods that make the dowser, it's the dowser that makes the rods work. :p

Puckdropper
05-20-2014, 06:23 PM
Grizz71,

I'd like to read more on your suggestion. Is there a name (or a search term), or a website that describes the process?

I frequent a backyard ice rink builder's group (and build one myself), and leaks are unfortunately common. The closer we get to finding the source, the less ice needs to be broken up to fix it.

Puckdropper

boslab
05-21-2014, 12:09 AM
We had a simpler method in the steel plant, stuff hot water down the pipe and look at the ground with a thermal imaging camera, if it was a shallow pipe results in mins, deeper required a soak, surprisingly accurate and cheap, you can hire a camera
Mark

sasquatch
05-21-2014, 08:18 AM
Agree with just Replace the pipe, only 50 ft and 35 years old!!

SGW
05-21-2014, 08:18 AM
No idea about finding a leak, but personally I think I'd use something flexible like PEX for an underground line, not rigid PVC that can crack.

RichR
05-21-2014, 08:46 AM
Use the Wile E. Coyote technique:
Plug one end of the pipe.
Feed propane into the other end of the pipe.
Follow the path of the pipe with a burning stick.
When ignition occurs, you've found the leak.:rolleyes:

vpt
05-21-2014, 08:51 AM
It was easy to find the leak in our water pipe that is buried 6' when the water came bubbling up out of the ground.

JunkyMonkey6
01-06-2017, 04:22 PM
I know original post was a long time ago but in case others end up here like me the link below seemed to have the best answer:
www.farmshow.com/view_articles.php?a_id=467#sthash.fQRQpr0W.dpuf
"Finding the leak saved me from having to dig up the entire pipe," says Himes. He found his problem leak which was 4 ft. underground by following the waterline out from the pump by taping a Styrofoam cup upside down to the top of a 5-ft. long piece of 2-in. dia. PVC pipe. Then he taped a doctor's stethoscope to the bottom of the cup."
The leak turned out to be a crack in the pressure line brought on by uneven settling of ground.

vincemulhollon
01-08-2017, 09:05 AM
I'm curious if camera technology has improved enough to stick a camera thru the pipe.

"a decade ago" camera technology was small enough for sewer pipes, so now a days with all the cell phone cameras and stuff they should be available cheap.

Seastar
01-08-2017, 10:03 AM
I can't resist telling my one expierence with dowsing.
Several years ago, while building a new cabin I hired a well drilling company to drill a well.
That company had previously drilled wells for two of my neighbors with good success.
The day they showed up on my property the owner of the company climbed from the truck with two willow dowsing rods in hand. He walked about for a few minutes and then said we'll drill here and indicated a spot on the ground.
To shorten the story, he stopped drilling at 330 feet and brought in a fracking company.
After three days of expensive fracking we finally got some water. Its barely enough to use and smells like the ditches of hell from the high sulfur content.
The well cost over $30,000 and is almost unusable.
We haul water from the closest town thirty miles away for drinking and hold our noses while taking a shower.
I didn't believe in dowsing before this experience and still don't.
It's superstitious BS.
Bill

Puckdropper
01-08-2017, 10:49 AM
I can't resist telling my one expierence with dowsing.
Several years ago, while building a new cabin I hired a well drilling company to drill a well.
That company had previously drilled wells for two of my neighbors with good success.
The day they showed up on my property the owner of the company climbed from the truck with two willow dowsing rods in hand. He walked about for a few minutes and then said we'll drill here and indicated a spot on the ground.
To shorten the story, he stopped drilling at 330 feet and brought in a fracking company.
After three days of expensive fracking we finally got some water. Its barely enough to use and smells like the ditches of hell from the high sulfur content.
The well cost over $30,000 and is almost unusable.
We haul water from the closest town thirty miles away for drinking and hold our noses while taking a shower.
I didn't believe in dowsing before this experience and still don't.
It's superstitious BS.
Bill

I'm not sure I'd say dowsing is superstitions BS, but it's definitely unpredictable and unreliable. I wonder if the various forms of dowsing rods are actually reacting to the presence of something else that usually occurs near water. Water carries all kinds of things... calcium and iron just to name two extremely common elements.

ed_h
01-08-2017, 11:48 AM
It's interesting that seemingly all of the "evidence" for the efficacy of dowsing is anecdotal, and none of it scientific.

As someone already mentioned, there is a sizable monetary prize offered to anyone who can demonstrate these paranormal claims under controlled conditions. The prize has been offered for years. So far, few have even tried and none have succeeded.

Ed

Alistair Hosie
01-08-2017, 12:25 PM
Get a wooden long dowel similar to a broom handle, stand where you think it might be leaking. Then put one side of the wooden pole to the ground and the other end of the wooden pole to your ear you will soon hear the water running. Where it is loudest dig. This info was given to me by the plumber who does all my work. Alistair

Toolguy
01-08-2017, 12:34 PM
It's interesting that seemingly all of the "evidence" for the efficacy of dowsing is anecdotal, and none of it scientific.

As someone already mentioned, there is a sizable monetary prize offered to anyone who can demonstrate these paranormal claims under controlled conditions. The prize has been offered for years. So far, few have even tried and none have succeeded.

Ed

I have done it under controlled conditions. Using a forked willow branch over a known water pipe in a cement floor. The water in the pipe was running. The branch bent down every time I went over the pipe. It wasn't me doing it, the branch went from straight to curved, pointing down at the pipe. You have to use a fairly thin branch that bends easily or it will hurt your hands when it goes down.

I don't know how well this would work in the wild. I don't know if the water needs to be moving for it to work.

Mcgyver
01-08-2017, 12:48 PM
I have done it under controlled conditions. Using a forked willow branch over a known water pipe in a cement floor. The water in the pipe was running. The branch bent down every time I went over the pipe. It wasn't me doing it,

not consciously in any event. The key is you knew where the water was. Most likely this whole thing started with some charlatan who wandered about in great dramatic concentration final announce "dig here". And behold, there was water. Of course anyone with a bit of geological knowledge knows in most places the water table is the water table and you'll hit water anywhere if you dig to it. A good scientific mind wouldn't say its impossible, but afaik there is credible theory in favour of and no evidence or experiments to support the phenomena...beyond individual anecdotes.

for more info, see practical machinist. http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/ot-divining-rods-do-they-work-87420/. I like the line, "just use clairvoyance, its simpler" :D

JoeLee
01-08-2017, 01:02 PM
Boy, of this isn't digging up an old thread nothing is.
I can remember back quite a few years ago when the guy down the street from me made a pair of divining rods out of two pieces of SS TIG rod. Each was about 3' long and bent at 90 on one end to hold on to.
The problem I found was it was almost impossible to keep the two rods parallel while holding them. The slightest canting of either wrist would cause the rods to swing out or in. You couldn't walk and keep them parallel.
If any of these methods of finding water really work I would say the willow branch would be the real test.


JL...................

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kendall
01-08-2017, 01:11 PM
My experience with dowsing was a dozen years ago.
I lost my glasses, looked all through the house for them, a friend was over and jokingly suggested dowsing for them. Figured it was worth a try, so I bent up a couple of lengths of copper wire and played around with them. In the living room, they kept pointing to the kitchen, in the kitchen they'd point to the living room, only thing between the rooms was a counter/cabinet and the rods would sort of rotate so they kept pointing at it. Looked all through it and didn't find the glasses, so of course, dismissed dowsing.
Two years later we remodeled and while tearing that cabinet out I found those glasses between the outer and inner skins., no idea how they got there, but it was enough to make you think that there may be something to it.

Alistair Hosie
01-08-2017, 02:14 PM
The problem I found was it was almost impossible to keep the two rods parallel while holding them. The slightest canting of either wrist would cause the rods to swing out or in.
That's double hard when all around you are hissing themselves laughing at your sugar plum fairy escapades , or sugar plumb might be more appropriate. lol . I have seriously heard of many cases where they have had quite miraculous results . Alistair

Abner
01-08-2017, 03:53 PM
Winchman that's using yer head, unfortunately not everyone has the option of a sloping line and even with a mild slope your at the mercy of how the line was installed (highs and lows) but still - great deductive reasoning skills there,,,

Personally I would invest in a $5.00 mechanics stethoscope from horror fright (well I wouldn't cuz iv already got one)

It's cheap - it covers both ear ports therefore blocking out all surrounding sounds, and it works great, still cant hear it? try filling the pipe up with suds from soapy water and then pressurize it with part water part air --- ever hear a power steering pump that's low on fluid? ---- you get the idea...

Yup, I pot holed my line to find my leak, Stuck my head down each hole until I heard running water. I think a stethoscope would make the process easier. Pipe was broke on the underside, blew itself a camber and a tunnel. In our porous soil water would never have made it to the surface.

JoeLee
01-08-2017, 04:36 PM
My experience with dowsing was a dozen years ago.
I lost my glasses, looked all through the house for them, a friend was over and jokingly suggested dowsing for them. Figured it was worth a try, so I bent up a couple of lengths of copper wire and played around with them. In the living room, they kept pointing to the kitchen, in the kitchen they'd point to the living room, only thing between the rooms was a counter/cabinet and the rods would sort of rotate so they kept pointing at it. Looked all through it and didn't find the glasses, so of course, dismissed dowsing.
Two years later we remodeled and while tearing that cabinet out I found those glasses between the outer and inner skins., no idea how they got there, but it was enough to make you think that there may be something to it. Make you wonder.
Years ago a friend of mine who did remodeling for a living remodeled a bathroom for someone. After he was done with the job the people called him and told them they head noises in the wall and couldn't find their cat. Long story short....... he accidently sheet rocked the cat between the wall !!! He said it was a real friendly thing..... it used to come around and visit him all the time when he was working. It went behind the tub and when he slid the sheet rock in place the cat was between the studs and he never knew it.

This is the same guy that at one time I ran into at a local electrical supply store. He had a a 12" long drill bit with the end that looked like it was melted off. He was drilling through someones wall and went right smack dead center between the 220 line for the dryer. He was using an old dicast housing drill, I told him your lucky your here telling me about it.

JL................

flylo
01-08-2017, 05:14 PM
So Ed how much & where do you find the info for this reward. I can't water witch but I know some one that can.

ed_h
01-08-2017, 06:22 PM
So Ed how much & where do you find the info for this reward. I can't water witch but I know some one that can.

flylo--

The "Million Dollar Challenge" was offered by the James Randi Educational Foundation. Since James Randi retired from the Foundation, the board of directors has been restructuring the challenge, so they aren't accepting applications right now. http://web.randi.org/home/jref-status

In the mean time, your dowser friend can apply to any of the many other organizations offering cash prizes for demonstrating paranormal powers:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prizes_for_evidence_of_the_paranormal

We'll wait.

Ed

kendall
01-08-2017, 06:31 PM
I think that my glasses got stuck in a drawer, then got flipped over the back and slid down between the skins on the cabinet.
Talk about messing with power lines. Once had to work my way between a lowered ceiling and the floor above (was 10ft, then dropped to 8ft) had to climb under some old knob and tube lines that the electrician said not to worry about, they're disconnected at the breaker. Let me tell you when you are under bare wires, you really don't do a lot of thinking when you get a phone call and your cell is set for vibrate. I kicked two holes in the ceiling trying to get off those lines before I realized it was just my phone.

lakeside53
01-08-2017, 06:35 PM
;) ;) ;)

Joel
01-09-2017, 12:29 AM
I lost my glasses, looked all through the house for them, a friend was over and jokingly suggested dowsing for them. Figured it was worth a try, so I bent up a couple of lengths of copper wire and played around with them...Two years later we remodeled and while tearing that cabinet out I found those glasses between the outer and inner skins., no idea how they got there, but it was enough to make you think that there may be something to it.


Make you wonder.

Indeed it does - it makes me wonder where the discriminator knob is that allows two bent metal rods to distinguish between ground water, water running in a pipe, electrical wiring, eyeglasses, truffles, chocolate pudding, or whatever the douser/user happens to be seeking, and find that at will. No disrespect intended, but to presume that a couple of bent wires could possibly know your intent... that would require magic by anyone's standard.

vpt
01-09-2017, 08:31 AM
Possibly it isn't the rods but the person holding the rods that somehow subconsciously can locate "things" but the person needs a visual to know what their body knows?

Ridgerunner
01-09-2017, 11:13 AM
We had a guy come in to do a pounded well one time. His method to "discover" where to find water was to walk around with a pen knife balanced on his finger. When the pen knife fell off that was the spot. I noticed where the knife fell off was a nice level place where it was easy to get the rig in to and set up.

boslab
01-09-2017, 12:44 PM
It's easy to dowse for water in the uk, it's everywhere, just drill a hole, if we had as much oil as water we'd all be riding camels
Mark

Fasttrack
01-09-2017, 01:06 PM
I'm not sure I'd say dowsing is superstitions BS, but it's definitely unpredictable and unreliable.

So is random chance...

lakeside53
01-09-2017, 01:07 PM
It's easy to dowse for water in the uk, it's everywhere, just drill a hole, if we had as much oil as water we'd all be riding camels
Mark

Yep.. Low rain-swept island in the North Atlantic ;)