Very heavy small swing lathes

[.RC.]

Just wondering what the Jet 1440ZX lathe would be used for..

To me it seems a bit out of place...

Some specs..

7.5hp motor
3 1/8 Spindle bore
13 3/8" wide bed
5700 pounds weight...

But it only has a 14" swing..

For it's power to swing ratio it would be up there with the very heavy duty machines but with only a 14" swing it would be hard to utilise all that power...

It would be as rigid as all hell but I wonder what it was designed for.. I have seen some whopping heavy small swing American Tool Works lathes, but they went out of fashion in the seventies..

http://www.jettools.com/us/manufacturing/en/product.html?node=4642&product=361852

[philbur]

I thought horse power was about metal removal rates not swing, and if you want high removal rates you need rigidity.

Phil

but with only a 14" swing it would be hard to utilise all that power...

It would be as rigid as all hell but I wonder what it was designed for.. I have seen some whopping heavy small swing American Tool Works lathes, but they went out of fashion in the seventies.

[PixMan]

I know of a shop that has one, and it is a bit of a beast. I never thought a Jet machine would come through with that kind of build quality, but that one machine has changed my opinion.

You can imagine that a lot of smaller-diameter rolls would get turned on one, as that's what the shop I know of who has one does. These are take-up and dancer rolls for sheet film lines, typically in the 2" to 3" range and up to 6 feet long. They turn half, swing the roll around, turn the other half. By offsetting the tailstock, they get a slight crown on the rolls to help keep the films tracking straight.

The weight of the machine goes a long way in damping vibrations that might otherwise be hard to quell in long turns. I could see many applications for spindle repair or other work with it would be so nice to be able to have more of the work sticking inside the spindle an avoid setting up a steady rest.

[gwilson]

That lathe has the same size D8 spindle of a 19" lathe I had at work.

[Mcgyver]

For it's power to swing ratio it would be up there with the very heavy duty machines but with only a 14" swing it would be hard to utilise all that power...

why?

power along with rigidity gives you removal rate at whatever diameter. The work doesn't have to be 14" diam for you to want to plough into with a 1/4" DOC. my 13x42 DSG is 7.5 hp and a slightly smaller envelope and 10ee is a lot smaller, 10x20, with 5 hp.

I have seen some whopping heavy small swing American Tool Works lathes, but they went out of fashion in the seventies..

I don't know that i'd agree with that. seems like the hardinge, its clones and 10ee are still highly sought after and made i believe up until fairly recently. The cost of making such a high caliber product in the developed world is probably the ruination of it; not that there isn't merit and use for a very powerful, rigid and accurate lathe

and it wasn't an American or fashion thing, similar lathes, ie Smart Brown 1024, came from all over.

[tyrone shewlaces]

Probably seems overkill until you are stuck with a 15" swing lathe with 1-1/8" spindle bore and 2hp motor weighing less than 2000lb (like me). I still like my old lathe, but those specs sound like something I'd like to have in my shop. I don't do much disk-like large diameter turning compared to shafts and the like, so those specs sound pretty useful to me. I have access to various lathes at work. Some are very large. My criteria for picking which one to use is simple. I put it on the smallest machine that will do the job. It's just more comfortable reaching the work without leaning so far in and with less mass slinging around the left end.

[gwilson]

My HLVH is a heavy lathe,but I would not use it for taking heavy cuts. Its carriage is rather small. The EE and HLVH's are heavy more for vibration free operation and smooth cuts.

[Shuswap Pat]

Very heavy small swing lathes

That Jet lathe is typical on some of the small/medium size production/tool room machines of the 50's to 70's before CNC really took off. I think the machining technology has changed with coated carbides and ceramic inserts, so that the same or higher metal removal rates can be achived on smaller lighter eqiupment.

Having said that - Mass> Rigidity + Horsepower = metal removal. In the 70's I ran a BRAND NEW DS&G 15" lathe - It was a Rolls Royce of engine lathes, and it was 10 or 12 HP. It was about the same price as a small house in Victoria at the time . Some of the old machine tool builders - DS&G, Monarch, Lang, VDF used to build small 'Torquey' machines to suit all aspects of the machining world. These machines were also designd to run 2 shifts, 6 days a week for years, and provide accurate results - that is how they justified the costs at the time.

[Black Forest]

My lathe has 17" swing I think. It has 14 hp and weighs 6600lbs. And is only 5.6 feet between centers. Very rigid and makes short work of reducing the diameter of metal. I really like having the options I have to work on my farm equipment. It is only my second lathe so I don't have a lot of experience with many other lathes.

[jugs]

Just wondering what the Jet 1440ZX lathe would be used for..

To me it seems a bit out of place...

Some specs..

7.5hp motor
3 1/8 Spindle bore
13 3/8" wide bed
5700 pounds weight...

But it only has a 14" swing..

For it's power to swing ratio it would be up there with the very heavy duty machines but with only a 14" swing it would be hard to utilise all that power...

It would be as rigid as all hell but I wonder what it was designed for.. I have seen some whopping heavy small swing American Tool Works lathes, but they went out of fashion in the seventies..

http://www.jettools.com/us/manufactu...product=361852

And the Removable gap allows up to 23-5/8" diameter work (but weakens the structure)

john

[Elninio]

Smart and brown, TOS, makes lathes like this

[Black Forest]

Smart and brown, TOS, makes lathes like this

Yes, my lathe is Russian. Something like a TOS maybe.

[MrSleepy]

Smart and brown, TOS, makes lathes like this

Especially the Smart and Brown 400..

(from)

The 400
This was Smart and Browns most powerful Lathe it was built to celebrate 40 years, it was reported to take a 1" cut on dia without even a flicker from the amp meter.
The name 400 is in relation to the swing over the Bed (400mm)
It's power unit was a D.C SHUNT wound with thyristor, it's frame was a D160 foot mounted with Force vent cooling side mounted fan, giving with the controller a speed range of 50 to 4,700rpm at 50Hz Field weakening to give 10.7 Kw (14.3 hp) at 1000 rpm.
The 1000mm between centres model weighed in at 2.7 tons, the 1500mm at 2.9 tons

Rob

[wierdscience]

Sydney made a 14 or 16" swing lathe that featured a 20hp motor,herringbone gears and weighed 9,000lbs+

[Forrest Addy]

These are a series of musings inspired by, but not necessarily responsive to the OP so cut me a little slack.

Everyone has heard the term "toolroom lathe." It generally refers to a machine featuring a bit lower HP and oodles of extra features taper attachment, steady and follow rest, lots of threading options, etc. A toolroom lathe is not necessarily more precise than other engine lathes but they may be. A Monarch EE is a famous example of a toolroom lathe.

The other white meat is a "production lathe". These feature robust construction intended to enhance stock removal. The extra whistles and bells include power traverses, enlarged quill, 18 speed or more headstock full of stronger gears and shafts, a larger motor and often double the weight of a comparable quality and swing of a toolrool lathe. American Pacemaker, Axelson, Lodge & Shipley Turnmaster, Sydney, Monarch, are famous examples of US made production engine lathes.

These lathes came pretty bare so their purchasers had to buy separately priced options and attachments needed for the work they specialized in. "Sticker shock" propably wasn;t as well understood in the day. Thus purchasing agents felt nickeled and dimed as a usable machine's price mounted to 1 1/2 times that of a base machine. The individual cost of things under this marketing scheme was so high, the shop superintendent had to battle the bean counters for every additional chuck and tool post needed for productive operation.

Then there are "maintenence lathes" "school lathes" etc. All these are "engine lathes" but specialized for the markets they serve. The ubiquitous South Bend lathe line served this market niche.

Most lathes sold now are targeted to the home shop/small shop user. Most are equipped as toolroom lathes with many attachments and features once suppied as separate billed items.

In the '60's Clausing Colchester started selling husky, well equipped engine lathes as a package with only the taper attachment as an option. They did not revolutionize the industry but they did have an effect that might be called "catylizing" if you were enclined to hyperbolae. The days of large purchases of engine lathes was all but over as CNC was even then on the horizon.

I like seeing Jet marketing a robustly proportioned machine that might be called a production lathe. There are other sellers serving this same niche. Grizzly comes to mind but why they bought the "South Bend" name to put on their sticklers I will never understand. No part of the Grizzly line of machine tools incorporates a single distinctive feature of historic South Bend machine tools. Talk about strutting in borrowed feathers. I don't know about you guys but I'm suspicious of rebranded stuff. I look at it extra hard.

Many engine lathes are on the market. Many are good machines, well designed, and fuly equipped. Naturally there are a few lemons and, on the low end, some utter duds. Thanks to CNC, CAD, better materials, hard way bearing surfaces, etc, what was once a $70K machine can now be purchased for $20K (constant dollars) and for 15K you can get pretty close.

So, after all that I guess the message is shop carefully.