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rohart
05-13-2011, 05:03 PM
Monday morning, no phone, and hence no internet.

Spent a couple of days wondering if I'd dug up my cables before reading the local paper and discovering that thieves had ripped out a few hundred yards of phone cabling for the copper, taking down several thousand phones from around my area. Must have been ruinous for small businesses.

Idiot BT couldn't be bothered to tell anyone, of course.

Finally back up this evening.

But this could happen anywhere. You can't have bobbies posted at every telephone junction box. This is something you have to deal with using the threat of sentencing.

Maybe there should be a stiffer sentence for theft that results in loss of services to the public. I hear trains have been stopped when signalling cabling is nicked. too.

Net result is that I've spent a lot of time in the shop, and the kids have been unable to indulge in their poassion for Facebook, so there has been a sunny side to my family's misfortune.

Alistair Hosie
05-13-2011, 05:12 PM
Richard they are stealing it from besides the railway lines too ,costing the companies and the government ie you and I millions.They should act very tough on the buyers scrap merchants who know this is dodgy stuff they are buying a search should be made of their premises and they should be sent to jail for buying. without them there would be no point instealing it. Alistair

Tony Pratt
05-13-2011, 05:14 PM
Stiffer sentences, how dare you say that, wash your mouth out with soapy water and say 100 hail Mary's. Seriously I heard just this very day some young female on the radio trotting out the old argument that it isn't the thieves fault that they steal, it's to do with lack of education, lack of opportunities etc, etc! Of course she went on to say prison wasn't the answer but it sounds good to me.:
Tony

macona
05-13-2011, 05:30 PM
Here in oregon they have made a law the requires you to have a physical address where the check will be sent to you about a week later. Its made things a little tougher.

Mark McGrath
05-13-2011, 05:31 PM
We caught a guy redhanded putting our scrap into the back of his car in our yard.Took his car keys and phoned the police.When they finally turned up after the second phone call they interviewed us and him.Then decided that as it was only 200`s worth it was not worth charging him as it wouldn`t go to court due to the low value.
Their next statement was that this sort of crime is particularly rife in the immediate area due to a major new scrapyard opening.They were less than pleased when I told them it might also be due to their policy of telling thieves it was ok to steal up to 200 worth.

aboard_epsilon
05-13-2011, 05:37 PM
They have been going nuts around here ..man hole covers ..even metal sandwich boards belonging to cafes..

My friend Alwyn had his swarth pinched from outside his works..plus two buggered wheel barrows ..they didn't take to the stuff out of the bins ..they took the bins with it

think its the travelers ..gypsies .

or it could be the jobless ..who cant find a job ..and need to feed their families

or druggies

all the best.markj

Bob Farr
05-13-2011, 05:41 PM
We caught a guy redhanded ***

A bit of vigilante justice seems appropriate :mad:

Jammer Six
05-13-2011, 05:43 PM
If you think you're not going to get caught, the sentence doesn't matter.

flylo
05-13-2011, 05:45 PM
If you had concealed gun carry legal there it would probably slow down at least in your yard when your home.:D I'd gladly add some lead to their scrap collection.

sasquatch
05-13-2011, 06:16 PM
Folks you are not alone,, this theft is going on everywere.
It will get worse as scrap prices continue to go up.
Neighbour had a cast iron bathtub stolen from his farm last weekend, an old one been there for 15 years, he was using it for a water trough for his livestock. Thing weighed about 300lbs.

Mark McGrath
05-13-2011, 06:30 PM
A bit of vigilante justice seems appropriate :mad:

Bob,that`s the way it always used to be,but now I`m in my sixties I`ve got to watch what I`m doing.Although there are other ways.

wierdscience
05-13-2011, 06:38 PM
Tougher sentencing?

40 LASHES IN THE TOWN SQUARE

I sends a message,costs nothing to implement(I would gladly donate the whipping post and whip) and delivers actual punishment instead of worthless government leech based child sitting.

Several months ago I had about $3,000 worth of stuff stolen.Some power tools etc and also "scrap metal"That scrap metal was the transmission and radiator out of my truck:mad:

I had pulled the engine for a rebuild and when I decided to put the engine back in the first thing I noticed was the missing tranny.The cameras across the street at the local church weren't on enough of an angle to get a shot of who took it so it was a loss.Probably just as good since if could have seen them they would have turned up dead from lead poisoning shortly there after:mad:

sasquatch
05-13-2011, 06:38 PM
A bit off topic but concerning the theft of fuel, friend of mine was loosing diesel from his heavy equipment, so he locked the caps, then left a full 5 gallon can beside the machine, along with a couple of old wrenches and the fuel in the can he doctored up with a good dose of sugar, well stirred up.
Two mornings later,, yup the fuel and can had been taken.

2ManyHobbies
05-13-2011, 06:44 PM
Here in oregon they have made a law the requires you to have a physical address where the check will be sent to you about a week later. Its made things a little tougher.Requiring a check payment, DL, and vehicle tag was part of the fix around these parts. They also put up a hotline with a reward for information leading to arrests and convictions in utility thefts.

It still happens, but less than it used to. Stealing condensers off of office buildings on the weekends or churches on the weekdays seem to be popular.

wierdscience
05-13-2011, 07:08 PM
A bit off topic but concerning the theft of fuel, friend of mine was loosing diesel from his heavy equipment, so he locked the caps, then left a full 5 gallon can beside the machine, along with a couple of old wrenches and the fuel in the can he doctored up with a good dose of sugar, well stirred up.
Two mornings later,, yup the fuel and can had been taken.

We used to do that with gas cans,they wouldn't take the cans,but would steal the gas.It was easy to find out who was doing it.Filled the cans with one gallon of gas and four of water.Modern fuel injectors don't tolerate water very well turns out:rolleyes:

lynnl
05-13-2011, 07:17 PM
Tougher sentencing?

[SIZE="6"]40 LASHES IN THE TOWN SQUARE



I absolutely agree! I genuinely believe that society would be much better served if we went back to lashings as a routine form of punishment.
I think it would be a far better deterrent, and cheaper and quicker for all concerned. With a lot of these low lifes nowadays, I think they view what we foolishly mete out as punishment as a sort of badge of honor ...at least among their peers.

Remember the furor raised in this country several years ago because Singapore was going to whip the a$$ of some young punk from the U.S. with some bamboo rods? (I've forgotten what his crime was) Even Pres. Clinton (that's Bill "I feel your pain" Clinton) got all in an uproar about it.

Enough of this wasting money on prisons; let's whup some a$$es! :D

saltmine
05-13-2011, 07:26 PM
When I worked for the County, we had a report of 14 miles of high tension (50,000 volt) power cable was stolen. Nobody knows how the thieves were able to cut the cable out and make off with it, without getting killed.

When I worked in Los Angeles, the cops caught some locals who were stealing cast iron storm drain grates and manhole covers. They had them loaded into an elderly Datsun pickup, headed for the recycling site when they hit a bump in an intersection, and the rear axle of the Datsun promptly broke in half. The amusing part was; the three idiots didn't beat it, they were arrested, still trying to push the truck out of the intersection....with 26,000 lbs of scrap iron in the back.

Last year, here in Northern Arizona, there was a rash of hundreds of gallons of diesel fuel going missing. Especially at the many truck stops that populate the area. The Sheriff set up surveillance on one truck stop and discovered a guy with a pickup truck towing what looked like a utility trailer was seen at almost every incident where truckers discovered missing fuel.
Finally, the Deputies stopped the guy, and found two 500 gallon storage tanks and several high-speed pumps inside the trailer, all self-contained, and powered, along with a couple hundred feet of hose. The suspect was stealing diesel fuel out of parked trucks, then driving to another truck stop, and selling the fuel at discount prices....Yes, before you ask, he went to prison...

sasquatch
05-13-2011, 07:32 PM
Re: Not only scrap metals:

With the high prices now increasing almost weekly of fuels, predictions of more fuel thefts as the summer turns into fall and colder weather as these increases also drive up the price of heating or furnace oils.
(Stolen diesel dumped into furnace oil tanks.)

On this subject even firewood thefts are climbing, not a good idea to cut firewood on your'e bush lot and stack it there to dry if the piles are visible from the road. A number of people have lost firewood to these midnight truckers!

Building sites also loosing sheets of plywood, windows etc.
A sign of our times i guess!

Ken_Shea
05-13-2011, 08:34 PM
A dear old WWII veteran friend now gone had the same answer for every problem, beginning to think he was closer to right then I gave him credit for. No matter what the problem, if it was behavioral the solution was to take a rubber hose to them.

jstinem
05-13-2011, 10:51 PM
"Stiffer sentences, how dare you say that, wash your mouth out with soapy water and say 100 hail Mary's. Seriously I heard just this very day some young female on the radio trotting out the old argument that it isn't the thieves fault that they steal, it's to do with lack of education, lack of opportunities etc, etc! Of course she went on to say prison wasn't the answer but it sounds good to me.:"


RANT ON:
The main reason there will not be stiffer sentences is that it costs more money, (More TAX Money), to keep the thieves in jail longer. No politician will propose such a thing. At least not when it has a chance of passing anyway. It's amazing how tolerant people get when they realize it's their money that has to be spent correct a social problem.
RANT OFF
Thanks for your patience, guys
Joe

Tait
05-13-2011, 11:01 PM
I live about 12 minutes from Kaiser Steel in Fontana, California. Back in the late 80's, a couple of guys thought it would be cool to steel one of those four foot spindles wound full with steel cable.

So they back their pickup up to the dock and use 8' prybars to roll the spindle over to the edge of the dock and onto their pickup.

Trouble was, with the drop from the dock to their pickup bed, the 12,000 lbs of steel was a bit more than the pickup's suspension was prepared to support - the spindle squashed the truck flat to the ground.

And it was still there when the police showed up.

danlb
05-14-2011, 12:47 AM
As I walk the neighborhood I've noticed that most all of the fire hydrants (fire plugs to some) are missing their cast iron covers. They are several pounds, 4 to 6 inches across and protect the threads and valve where the fire hose attaches.

This means that when the fire truck rolls up the threads will be weathered and there is no telling what has crawled or stuffed inside the open valve.

I'd love to catch one of these fools in the act so I can have them busted. 100 hydrants at $25 or so a cap, several caps to the hydrant... should be a felony, right?

Dan

Black Forest
05-14-2011, 08:07 AM
Not all junk yard owners are bad guys.

One of my daughters living outside of Boston was being followed by a man. He would be there when she left the college and would follow her home. He would park his car outside the building and wait for her to come out. She called the police and they said they couldn't do anything. So for a few days she had this guy following her. So she called me. I told her to get the guys plate number. She did. I called my friend in Boston and told him the problem. He just laughed and said no problem he would take care of it right away. So he went to his friend the local scrapper and got a big tow truck or something and went to my daughters address. Sure enough the guy was there that evening. They grabbed the guy and tossed him in the trunk and hauled his car to the junk yard. They took the guy out of the trunk and held him while the junk yard owner crushed his car into a tiny little cube. Then they beat the hell out of him and told him if he every showed up in the neighborhood again he would be in the trunk next time. Problem solved.

It only cost me a case of good Scotch.

Alistair Hosie
05-14-2011, 04:15 PM
I saw an amazing discovery (seriously) on the news yesterday the scientists psychologists have discovered that if you send someone to jail for longer they are less likely to repeat offenses. So instead of (as said on tv news) sending someone for theft to jail for a year or eighteen months you instead send them for four or five years they decide they don't like it and use there free time more fruitfully and less offensively once their free. Alistair
P S I don't know about you guys but I was totaly amazed havent we been telling them for ages that a slap on the wrist approach was not working.Another thing I don't believe in is time off for good behaviour instead if they misbehave in prison you add on extra time see if they like that what dya think guys? Alistair

danlb
05-14-2011, 05:21 PM
That's a wonderful idea. Punishment for bad behavior. Then add to it some sweetener; If the sentence is extended then the prisoner spends it in solitary (starting now) for that extension period. That saves on costs too.

And for gods sakes, stop treating prisoners as if they have more rights to comfort than a homeless guy on the streets. The prisons should at least be less pleasant than the conditions that soldiers endure when on a battle field. Conjugal vists? You HAVE to be kidding!

As said in an earlier post, if there is no penalty, then crime really does pay. As long as it's profitable and low risk the criminals will continue breaking the law. That applies to everything from illegal aliens to murder (by the rich or famous).

Dan

Alistair Hosie
05-14-2011, 05:32 PM
Look in reality just as we pay for libraries, police, doctors, hospitals, schools, we may never as individuals use we need to remember that crime has been with us since Adam ,and somehow just like we need to pay for insurance we need to pay for locking people up. The reality is that not locking them up is more expensive in the long run,so we need to stop all the whiners that don't like to pay.In simple terms we need jails, like we need hospitals .It's just the same, we require them in order to be safe and that costs money.
I am not saying we need to focus on every other aspect of rehabilitating and educating criminals so that they lead more procuctive lives .Question what happened to the three stikes laws I liked them.Criminals have to accept that their choices will cost them dearly if they decide to comit crime thats just a fact of life stop being lenient with criminals, especially dangerous ones who some of them need to be put away for life. Alistair

spope14
05-14-2011, 06:03 PM
Our junkyard and metal recyclers for about 60 miles radius started taking names, drivers licences and jotting down what you brought in as a rule about seven or eight years ago due to metal theft. Most in NH do this now because if they take stolen metal, they become a party to the theft if not in law then in the bad PR that our TV stations and newspapers put out. Police also do updates to the local metal people about thefts when they are found out.

Last month someone hit the "park and ride" off I-91 in our area for about 20 catalyc convertors. They were caught within 24 hours due to this.

Had another "theft" averted a few months back, though not by the metal recyclers, some guy was cutting old I beams from old walls by a mill that had been torn down by our river (Sugar River). I think this was January, but the guy cut an I-beam by a supporting wall over the river, the wall gave way, he fell in and in the process had his foot cut off. Somehow or another, the guy survived his trip down river with one less foot and in freezing and iced up water. No telling what will happen in the courts.

wierdscience
05-14-2011, 09:56 PM
Look in reality just as we pay for libraries, police, doctors, hospitals, schools, we may never as individuals use we need to remember that crime has been with us since Adam ,and somehow just like we need to pay for insurance we need to pay for locking people up. The reality is that not locking them up is more expensive in the long run,so we need to stop all the whiners that don't like to pay.In simple terms we need jails, like we need hospitals .It's just the same, we require them in order to be safe and that costs money.
I am not saying we need to focus on every other aspect of rehabilitating and educating criminals so that they lead more procuctive lives .Question what happened to the three stikes laws I liked them.Criminals have to accept that their choices will cost them dearly if they decide to comit crime thats just a fact of life stop being lenient with criminals, especially dangerous ones who some of them need to be put away for life. Alistair

Alistair,It is my belief that prisons should be ran as a factories.You and I along with everyone else in our working lives had to get up and go to work to feed our families.I don't see any reason prisoners shouldn't have to as well.

The prisons should also be self-sufficent and for that matter even turn a profit.Then maybe in addition to them not burdoning society with the costs they could also pay back they're victims losses.

A good many criminals are people who never had any structure in they're lives growing up.Learning to be useful and having a job to do can't hurt them.

darryl
05-14-2011, 10:16 PM
You have these thieves stealing anything and everything, then selling it- WHO'S BUYING IT? You can't tell me the buyers don't know it's stolen goods- and where is it going, China? It's time to shut it down.

wierdscience
05-14-2011, 10:23 PM
You have these thieves stealing anything and everything, then selling it- WHO'S BUYING IT? You can't tell me the buyers don't know it's stolen goods- and where is it going, China? It's time to shut it down.

Cop-"Mam,can you identify your chopped up,masicrated AC coil"?

Sure somethings are obvious,but like my truck tranny the scrappers see a hundred old transmissions come through the gates every week.

macona
05-14-2011, 11:13 PM
You have these thieves stealing anything and everything, then selling it- WHO'S BUYING IT? You can't tell me the buyers don't know it's stolen goods- and where is it going, China? It's time to shut it down.

Thats not going to work. I have been to several different recyclers. There is no way you can tell what would be stolen and what was not for the most part. If someone came in with a bunch of bronze urns, that one thing. But a bunch of old copper wire? forget it. I have brought in that kind of stuff myself.

RB211
05-14-2011, 11:56 PM
If some one cannot behave and be a useful member of society, they should be shot in the head, and the family charged with the cost of the bullet. Why use tax payer money to give them free shelter and food in a prison?

darryl
05-15-2011, 12:15 AM
Yeah, I know it's almost impossible to get a handle on it. It's just so frustrating to see it going on, and the criminals getting away with it for so many lousy reasons-

snowman
05-15-2011, 01:55 AM
You have these thieves stealing anything and everything, then selling it- WHO'S BUYING IT? You can't tell me the buyers don't know it's stolen goods- and where is it going, China? It's time to shut it down.

I pick metal out of peoples garbage once or twice a week. The scrap yard pays me for it. If I bring in predominately copper, or non-ferrous scrap over $50, they pay me in check...anything less I get paid in cash.

Now, the scrap yard employees know me, because I have developed a relationship with them...and they know that I get the stuff from peoples garbage, because that's what I tell them. So should they presume I'm lying?

It used to be the case that electricians would give the scrap wire to their apprentice to take to the scrap yard as a bonus for hard work. Should they have to show their IBEW card? How do they know that that kid didn't just rob an industrial unit of all of it's heavy wire? (now, not so much, the scrap has become part of the estimate since copper has went up so much).

But the scrap trade pays a lot of money to a lot of people that aren't thieves...should they be punished because a couple people are theives? Trust me...if we know that people are stealing stuff, we turn them in, it makes us look bad. I had a bucket of aluminum scrap stolen from my driveway, I reported it...I was pissed....but I didn't go two streets over and beat the hell out of the other local scrappy. He's a good guy and looks out for stuff for me (machinable scrap and tooling), same as I look out for the stuff that he likes (outboard motors and scooters). We all know each other, and if you believe that the scrap yard owners are purposely dealing in stolen goods you are kidding yourself. They know when to question people, they know when to call the cops...and they do it. If you aren't a good judge of character, you don't stay in the business long. Those guys running the scales know what's up.

Boostinjdm
05-15-2011, 02:13 AM
I worked maintenance for a scrap yard for 3 yrs. You can't tell what is stolen and what isn't. Hell, a lot of brand new stuff comes in. Spools of wire, hydraulic cylinders, etc. Some are rejects and some come from places going belly up. I've even seen guys at auctions buying anything metal that's cheap just to haul in as scrap. Lot's of good parts and material have been lost that way.

Weston Bye
05-15-2011, 06:24 AM
A couple years ago, the place where I work (coil & solenoid manufacturer) got a call from an area scrap yard. A place where the company sold their scrap. They recognized some of the scrap a couple of guys brought in as our product and called while the perps were waiting. As the yard was fairly close, my boss went over, idenfied the objects and the cops were called. Turns out that the guys were employees of one our customers and had been stealing from them.

Seastar
05-15-2011, 09:34 AM
In South Florida, where I live in the winter, the crooks are stealing air conditioners from the empty, foreclosed houses and from houses where the snowbird owners are up north.
It's getting really bad with the very high unemployment and the high illegal immigrant population.
Bill

gary350
05-15-2011, 09:37 AM
Laws have changed here junks yards are now required to take finger prints and photos of every one that sells to them. You have to be on file before they will buy your scrap metal. If the scrap your selling looks questionable like brand new copper rolls, wire cut from houses, new aluminum ladders, man hole covers, they make you wait for you check and they call the police. Police make the seller prove where they got the scrap if they have no proof they go to jail.

We had people breaking into the building at work several times a week. We were keeping the fork lift parked against the roll up door every night one morning we found a car tried to drive through the roll up door the whole front end of the car was pushed back 3 ft. Idiots thieves must have hit that door doing 40 mph. Thieves are idiots they removed the license plate from the car but were too stupid to remember a car has a VIN number so the ower of the car and his friends were put in jail.

The owner and another guy at work started spending the night in the building they parked their vehicles inside so the parking lot was empty. One night someone broke in and they caught him. They took the guy out into country and worked him over real good and left him there. They said the guy won't be stealing anything from anyone for at least a year he will probably be in a wheel chair for 6 months.

One time the alarm system went off at work the police came they were so nervice searching the building one of the cops accident shot a hole through the womans bathroom wall.

Tony Ennis
05-15-2011, 10:36 AM
Heard of another fuel thief who would part his panel truck over the underground storage tanks at fuel stations. He had a false bottom in it. He'd then open the tanks' covers and suck the fuel out. Replace cover, drive off.

They got him. I wonder if it's the same guy.

sansbury
05-15-2011, 01:03 PM
But the scrap trade pays a lot of money to a lot of people that aren't thieves...should they be punished because a couple people are theives?

Yeah, you can't buy cold medicine that works anymore because somebody might use it to cook up meth. And now they'll only let you buy one box of the stuff that doesn't work, and make you sign a logbook.

philbur
05-15-2011, 01:29 PM
You should have taken his car to the crusher and make him watch.

Phil:)


We caught a guy redhanded putting our scrap into the back of his car in our yard.Took his car keys.

mike os
05-15-2011, 01:45 PM
longer sentences & crap conditions.... sentenced to a bed & 3 meals a day... you want more ...tough crap, your rights ended when the judge handed down your sentence, go ask if there are any prisoner jobs available, do it well & you might get a radio......or another half hour out of your cell.... Dont like it... dont come back

sentences for this kind of thing should include the loss overall, not just the cost of the materials, so 3m of signal cabling may well see you doing 5000 years:D

Though going all the way back to Cool Hand Luke might be a little far in some cases;) ... but maybe not:D

Rooter
05-15-2011, 02:44 PM
I agree things are getting out of control. In my younger days people knew there were consequences to what you did. Get into trouble and Pa's belt was what awaited you, at a minimum.
Now you correct your kids and YOU go to jail !!!
Here in Illinois, the big shot politicians and their families get 24/7 police protection at the tax payers expense (so I've been told). I've long given up on the idea that people in this country will ever wake up and clean house in government. It's always the choice between the lesser of two evils.
Like many others, what I'd like to see is a law/policy change. Take their police protection away or make them pay for it instead of us. Confiscate their plush retirement funds and put them into Social Security. Tell them that's their retirement fund now.
Until the politicians feel the pain that everyday people do and learn that there are consequences to their actions, nothing will change.
One of these self rightous a**holes has a bill up for vote to require LEGAL gun owners to have a $1,000,000 to own a gun. What do these scum do to a thief who's caught with an illegal stolen gun ??? Try and hold the original, legal owner liable for what the thief did !!! They know they won't get anything out of the scumbag thief, but the victim....they have MONEY !!!