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lane
05-18-2011, 06:11 PM
Came home from work this evening. A what do I find sitting on my trailer in my Yard . of all things A Shaper about a 16 inch with universal table . now what to do with that . Will probably haul to scrap yard . Dont have room for a shaper . but if i did this is about the size I would want. Big enough to do something with Not one of those dinky Atlas are south Bend jobs. Had a Altas once to slow and too little. Any one want a Shaper Close by.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper002.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper001.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper004.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper003.jpg
What do you think.

DICKEYBIRD
05-18-2011, 06:18 PM
Nottingham...dang, Sir John sure drove the Donald a long ways to drop that thing in your yard!;)

Looks like a good'un.

Dawai
05-18-2011, 06:18 PM
Lucky you.. Dang buddy.. all they leave me is dirty diapers on the roadside in front of my place..

If I figure out who it is, I am going to take a dump on their porch.

John Stevenson
05-18-2011, 06:21 PM
Well I didn't want the damn thing either...................

.

cadwiz
05-18-2011, 06:34 PM
What'cha want for it? I'm coming up that way to Magnolia Sunday evening for work. Gonna be in a dinky rental car and can't haul but could look and make arrangements for next week, gonna be off wed-fri.

Cadwiz

gary350
05-18-2011, 06:51 PM
I paid $50 for a horizonal mill at an auction. I really didn't need it but I hated to see it sell so cheap. It had power feed on all 3 axes I thought that was pretty nice. The dinosaur was made about the turn of the century I used it a few times but it was more trouble than it was worth. I sold it to the scrap yard a few years later it weighed 1600 lbs.

sasquatch
05-18-2011, 07:06 PM
RE: I hated to see it sell SO CHEAP?????????????????????????????:rolleyes: :D

jkilroy
05-18-2011, 07:15 PM
I don't need a shaper but I would like to draw attention to the tool holder, thats stout looking. Lane, I am going to have to get over there and visit some time and please feel free to drop in if you find yourself headed down I-20 around Vicksburg any time.

kendall
05-18-2011, 08:21 PM
Boy, someone could drop one of them in my driveway any time!

Bill Pace
05-18-2011, 08:24 PM
Lane's keeping you guys in suspense, teasing about somebody leaving a shaper in his yard -- well I'm guilty!!

A bit of the story...

An ad in the local Craigs list showed "lathe mill and 'shaffer' $1500" and 3 blurry pictures, After finding out that it was for all 3 machines, me and another buddy went to see what it was.

1. A pretty decent looking "war board" SB 10, very original appearing and nicely tooled, but dirty, dirty, nasty!!

2. An older (unknown age) Induma mill (looks a lot like a Bridgy) that was so nasty is was difficult to know much about, but worth having.

3. And, of course, the Shaper Lane's showing.

I did not want the shaper, but thought the lathe and mill was worth the money. Lane showed some interest in the shaper and not having a place to put it I dropped it off at Lanes (I borrowed his trailer) so he could see, and ponder the matter. None of us want to see it scrapped, but none of us have a place to put it!!

PeteF
05-18-2011, 08:45 PM
Gonna be in a dinky rental car and can't haul but could look and make arrangements for next week, gonna be off wed-fri.

Cadwiz

A rental? Pffft no problem then, I'm sure there's a HF somewhere close by where you could pick up a set of cheap roof racks!

DICKEYBIRD
05-18-2011, 09:01 PM
I'm sure there's a HF somewhere close by where you could pick up a set of cheap roof racks!Now that there''s funny!

Surely one of you Photoshop gurus can put that puppy up on top of a little Toyota Celica or the like and it'll be all over the web as the gospel truth in no time. Ahhh, I can see the flame wars already!:D

PeteF
05-18-2011, 09:15 PM
Funny??? Oh :confused:

Well that being the case you may enjoy this shot. No word on whether it's a rental :p

http://www.snopes.com/photos/automobiles/graphics/lumber.jpg

http://www.snopes.com/photos/automobiles/lumber.asp

Dan Dubeau
05-18-2011, 09:40 PM
I need a group of buddies around here like you guys. All my buddies leave for me is empty beer bottles.

wierdscience
05-18-2011, 09:40 PM
Now that there''s funny!

Surely one of you Photoshop gurus can put that puppy up on top of a little Toyota Celica or the like and it'll be all over the web as the gospel truth in no time. Ahhh, I can see the flame wars already!:D

Nah,Im thinkin Smartcar.

jkilroy
05-18-2011, 10:24 PM
Well for a shaper of that stroke, 16", it does look exceptionally stout. The table is universal and very long, much longer than the table on my 20" G&E. That knee support setup is very handy, much easier to use with the tilting table than the one on my G&E. You could do some real work with that.

quasi
05-19-2011, 02:04 AM
the table on this Shaper is not a universal table, it only adjusts on one axis.

John Stevenson
05-19-2011, 03:59 AM
That name has cropped up before but information on the company is very hard to find.
They were located at Brook St in Nottingham which is now a modern building used by the telephone people.

Chances are this was a site of lace mills of which Nottingham and the surround areas are covered with.

Last link I can find for them is they invented a variable speed drive in 1944.

There was a fledgling machine tool industry around this area at the time.
Myfords at Beeston > 4 miles away, Raglan Engineering, makers of the Little John lathe in Nottingham, Winfield at Long Eaton > about 8 miles away, Willmotts, next to Myfords and Poole Tools in Nottingham made their own lathe although this was sub contracted out to Slack and Parr at Kegworth, about 8 miles away.

jugs
05-19-2011, 04:42 AM
Is Slack and Parr at Kegworth, still going ??? Jan's dad was the pharmacist at Kegworth, just round the corner from them.

john
:)

John Stevenson
05-19-2011, 04:48 AM
Yes quite a large company now, they mainly do work for Rolls Royce and they are big enough to have their own heat treat plant.

Used to make those 2 or 3 drilling head adaptors for drilling machines, probably do spares but i don't think they do the heads any more.

H8Allegheny
05-20-2011, 06:49 AM
2. An older (unknown age) Induma mill (looks a lot like a Bridgy) that was so nasty is was difficult to know much about, but worth having.

Do you have an Induma 1-S turret mill? If so, you will find it better than any BP; I've had one for ten years and would never go back. Parts are almost impossible to find for them, thought the company still exists in Milan, Italy. Many parts are interchangeable with BP's, but some are not.

Cheers and welcome to the Induma club.

Brian
Taxachusetts

Alistair Hosie
05-20-2011, 08:22 AM
It does my heart good to see someone else make aheavy purchase now I get my saw next week all 500 kilo's of it. Good luck and have fun. Alistair

lazlo
05-20-2011, 09:40 AM
Well I didn't want the damn thing either.....

So does that mean you're going to drop the TOS in Lane's yard too? :p

John Stevenson
05-20-2011, 11:00 AM
So does that mean you're going to drop the TOS in Lane's yard too? :p

That thing is an embarrassment, It attracts all the wrong sort of work that I don't want to do.

Next time I have few slack days it's either going for scrap or being given away to anyone that wants to come and get it out and take it.

lazlo
05-20-2011, 11:06 AM
Next time I have few slack days it's either going for scrap or being given away to anyone that wants to come and get it out and take it.

I'll get me coat :D

Alistair Hosie
05-20-2011, 03:23 PM
I finally discovered after all these years the answer to the infamous question.
WHO GIVES A TOS?
Answer Sir John Stevenson esquire.:D
Alistair

lane
05-20-2011, 08:14 PM
Got out their and crawled around on the shaper . Man that thing is nice. just need taking apart and cleaning. All screws look and feel good. I scraped of some crud and squirted the oil can in all the hole`s nothing is broke but the handle off the table rotating crank . Made a quick handle wrench so I could move things around and get some oil on the slides and ways.The paint even looks fairly good. The more i look at it the better I like it But where could i put it. Shop full Garage full May be I could set it up on the Patio My wife wont mine. Help what to do.It is any thing but wore out I cant find any wear on any thing .looks like it was never used very much.

sasquatch
05-20-2011, 08:26 PM
Re: No Room:

Geez you,ll find room, don,t let this opportunity pass you by.:D

quadrod
05-20-2011, 08:42 PM
Shreveport is not that far from Arkansas, how much room would one need? Hint Hint.

lane
05-20-2011, 09:27 PM
Shreveport is not that far from Arkansas, how much room would one need? Hint Hint.
About 4x6 feet

BadDog
05-20-2011, 11:15 PM
Man, with friends like that, who needs, we'll, any other friends. :D You've already hit the jack pot!

Congrats on that amazing score. That's exactly the machine I've been hoping to run across. But all I seem to find are the little baby Atlas/Logan type at severely inflated prices, or rusted hulk 26" Cinci's with parts missing/broken and setting in a field for 30 years. Would love to find a nice loaded universal of about 16" stroke in good shape...

lane
05-21-2011, 12:31 AM
Man, with friends like that, who needs, we'll, any other friends. :D You've already hit the jack pot!

Congrats on that amazing score. That's exactly the machine I've been hoping to run across. But all I seem to find are the little baby Atlas/Logan type at severely inflated prices, or rusted hulk 26" Cinci's with parts missing/broken and setting in a field for 30 years. Would love to find a nice loaded universal of about 16" stroke in good shape...

Well its only a 2 day drive from Phoenix to here.

BadDog
05-21-2011, 01:37 AM
It's tempting. Well, let's see. With Diesel bordering on $4/gal, about 20 mpg on open road, and roughly 2k miles round trip, plus food/board... Hmmm, maybe I'll check back on that 26" Cinci in Tucson... ;) But thanks for the though... <sigh>

John Stevenson
05-21-2011, 06:52 AM
Help what to do.It is any thing but wore out I cant find any wear on any thing .looks like it was never used very much.

That's the story on most of them, thrown out because the floor space was worth more.

There are uses for them but in industry they are dinosaurs and attract the same amount of interest.
They get put into home shops and the same thing happens, they take up floor space in excess of their use, but because home shop floor space isn't costed out they are classed as cool and they can do this and that with a 10 cent tool but never do.

I owned one at one time as it was cheap, 10 and virtually new.
I got if for internal keyways, blind ones can only be put in this way before EDM and that's slow.

Made a custom angle plate to hold the gear / pulley and tried it.
What a pain because you are working blind, the tool is going into a hole you can't see unless you stand on your head.

Sold it and waited until I saw a slotter for sale, does the same job but working visable. Even so it only pays to buy one of these if you have the room for it and the use.
Running a repair shop I do have the use but I must admit it's only on specials that it gets used, most keyways, being open, are done by broaches, quicker and easier.

R.I.P. The Shaper.

jugs
05-21-2011, 08:34 AM
It's tempting. Well, let's see. With Diesel bordering on $4/gal, about 20 mpg on open road, and roughly 2k miles round trip, plus food/board... Hmmm, maybe I'll check back on that 26" Cinci in Tucson... ;) But thanks for the though... <sigh>

Dont complain about $4/gal.... we have to pay aprox $10/gal in uk :eek: :(

john
:)

MickeyD
05-21-2011, 09:08 AM
Last year I was talking to a used machinery dealer up in Dallas and the guy asked if I knew about any BIG old G&E shapers available. He said that after many years of going for scrapweight, they were in demand in the oil industry doing repairs on directional drilling downhole tooling. Nice find Lane, if you can't get it in the shop put it in the back yard under a tarp and run it out there when you need it. Much kinder to the machine having it gently put out to pasture than just tossing it in the melting pot.

quadrod
05-21-2011, 10:58 AM
4x6', man i don't know if i can squease it in, what would you want for it?

cadwiz
05-21-2011, 02:20 PM
Sorry, don't bother, shapers spoken for, Lane and I already have an agreement. Paying tommorrow and picking up Friday 

Cadwiz

quadrod
05-21-2011, 02:55 PM
Oh good, now i don't have to sweat how to make room for another peace of iron.

lane
05-22-2011, 10:13 PM
Well I am going to turn this into a shaper rebuild thread. Sorry no pictures to day . But spent Sunday washing it down and taring it apart . Will take some tomorrow and post what it looks like now . Got my buddy Monty involved. He is going to help Make clean and polish parts. May be help foot the bill some.
Got all the front end off to day and all the motor stuff . tomorrow evening I hope the gear box . Then the ram. Sorry i backed out of selling it .

quadrod
05-22-2011, 11:18 PM
Cool, i look forward to seeing the pic's of the rebuild.

lane
05-23-2011, 09:20 PM
Here are some photoes of it in disassemble y ( taking it apart )

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper001-1.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper003-1.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper006.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper002-1.jpg

Spent Sunday getting this much cleaned and apart Next clean up all the pieces and see what needs to be fixed and polished up. Hope this weekend to get the gear box and ram off . At some point the nasty job of paint stripping.

lane
05-28-2011, 10:38 PM
Spent the day working on my shaper . Dipping parts in my lye tank to strip paint . Washing grease of with purple stuff and wire wheeling rust and crud of .And in general checking for things to be fixed.

lazlo
05-28-2011, 10:47 PM
Wow, sure doesn't look like it's been used much!. Great score Lane!

lane
05-28-2011, 10:55 PM
Here are some shots of to days progress.\
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper003-2.jpg
These are shots of stripped parts after the lye bath.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper002-2.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper001-2.jpg

This is the lye tank. about 6-7 gallons water about 6 cans of lye . I have a heating element to warm it up . works better that way.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper004-2.jpg
More to come .

lane
05-28-2011, 10:59 PM
This part out of the tank one end done only will have to put the other end in.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper005-1.jpg

Got the gear box off . Working on the ram.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper006-1.jpg
Haven`t gone into gear box yet .saving that for last. Hope tomorrow to get ram and bull gear out .

jkilroy
05-28-2011, 11:26 PM
"Dont complain about $4/gal.... we have to pay aprox $10/gal in uk"

Sure, but how many times would you have to lap the entire country to go 2000 miles? :D

That machine does look to be in good shape. I used my shaper to square up some 1/2 x 3 flat bar today. A big HSS tool is great for cutting scale on hot rolled, and it takes seconds to touch it up on the grinder and will easily last till I am looking up from under the daisies.

lane
05-30-2011, 10:10 PM
Here are more photos of my shaper tear down. Just the main body to get sand blasted now.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper011.jpg
The bull gear out and cleaned along with the crank.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper009.jpg
[IMG]http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper009.jpg[/IMhttp://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper009.jpg
The transmission with the back off ,will start taking it apart next week.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper008.jpg
More in next post

lane
05-30-2011, 10:18 PM
Here is more
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper009.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper006-2.jpg
A pile of cleaned parts ans every thing wire brushed up.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper012.jpg
This is the new and old feed screw for the slide . Old screw was a repair some one made and had the wrong thread on. They used 8 threads should have been 5acme . will have to bore out the slide and fit a new 5/8 5 thread acme nut in it.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper010.jpg

Stuart Br
05-31-2011, 03:45 AM
That's the story on most of them, thrown out because the floor space was worth more.

There are uses for them but in industry they are dinosaurs and attract the same amount of interest.
They get put into home shops and the same thing happens, they take up floor space in excess of their use, but because home shop floor space isn't costed out they are classed as cool and they can do this and that with a 10 cent tool but never do.

I owned one at one time as it was cheap, 10 and virtually new.
I got if for internal keyways, blind ones can only be put in this way before EDM and that's slow.

Made a custom angle plate to hold the gear / pulley and tried it.
What a pain because you are working blind, the tool is going into a hole you can't see unless you stand on your head.

Sold it and waited until I saw a slotter for sale, does the same job but working visable. Even so it only pays to buy one of these if you have the room for it and the use.
Running a repair shop I do have the use but I must admit it's only on specials that it gets used, most keyways, being open, are done by broaches, quicker and easier.

R.I.P. The Shaper.

When I was doing my apprenticeship in the early 1980's, I attended Guildford technical college. In their workshop, there was a long row of shapers, all "donated" by local industry. The shaper was long dead in production even then.

Stuart

Bill Pace
05-31-2011, 08:13 AM
When I was doing my apprenticeship in the early 1980's, I attended Guildford technical college. In their workshop, there was a long row of shapers, all "donated" by local industry. The shaper was long dead in production even then.

Yes, this is certainly true --- And while the smaller "bench-top" types, Atlas, SB, Logan, etc still have a fair amount of following, these larger machines are really dinosaurs. When I bought the 3 tools as a package, I just knew the shaper was gonna end in the scrap yard!

So I am rather pleased, and getting excited, that Lane & Monty have decided to bring this ole gal back

I went over yesterday to see the progress and Lane and I got to talking about the value of it after this restoration --- and the sad fact is probably very little more than when I drug it out of the warehouse.

But -- Lane, Monty, and I do these things for the pleasure of it, seeing an old dusty, grime coated machine all clean and ticking over smoothly. We dont play golf, fish, hunt -- and, no, Sir John, we dont even visit the Pub. This is our 'hobby'.

Lane and I will probably have more money in these than will ever be recovered... but...

Mcgyver
05-31-2011, 08:55 AM
Lane, that looks like a lot of work but it will be great machine when done - keep the pics coming!

DFMiller
05-31-2011, 09:59 AM
Lane,
I am really enjoying this thread. I look forward to seeing the progress.
Thanks
Dave

jugs
05-31-2011, 11:18 AM
Yes, this is certainly true --- And while the smaller "bench-top" types, Atlas, SB, Logan, etc still have a fair amount of following, these larger machines are really dinosaurs. When I bought the 3 tools as a package, I just knew the shaper was gonna end in the scrap yard!

So I am rather pleased, and getting excited, that Lane & Monty have decided to bring this ole gal back

I went over yesterday to see the progress and Lane and I got to talking about the value of it after this restoration --- and the sad fact is probably very little more than when I drug it out of the warehouse.

But -- Lane, Monty, and I do these things for the pleasure of it, seeing an old dusty, grime coated machine all clean and ticking over smoothly. We dont play golf, fish, hunt -- and, no, Sir John, we dont even visit the Pub. This is our 'hobby'.

Lane and I will probably have more money in these than will ever be recovered... but...

& thats how it should be - the joy of preserving heritage/history, making something from nothing, etc is far better than chasing the last dime.

As we've, seen money is worthless, when someone the other side of the world can make a decision that wipes out a lifetime of work & assets :mad:


DON'T GET ME STARTED :eek:

john
:)

Richard Wilson
05-31-2011, 11:36 AM
When I was doing my apprenticeship in the early 1980's, I attended Guildford technical college. In their workshop, there was a long row of shapers, all "donated" by local industry. The shaper was long dead in production even then.Stuart
Thats what I thought, but when I looked at the Chester UK website yesterday, one of the headings in the Product List was 'Shaping Machines'. when I clicked on it, all it says is 'coming soon', so it looks like the shaper might not be dead yet.

Richard

jkilroy
05-31-2011, 01:08 PM
Quite a nice job going on here. Please keep posting updates on this project.

ckalley
05-31-2011, 04:19 PM
I was watching a documentary about the Manahattan Project on PBS over the weekend. They showed a machinst turning what I guess was uranium on a lathe and another shot showed them facing off a block of the stuff on a shaper. The shaper kind of looked like Lane's new toy.

All kinds of sparks and the chips were glowing (couldn't tell what color - B&W film!). Almost looked like hard turning, but waaay slower and the guy was wearing a protective suit a respirator. Looked like a real nasty job.
Craig

boslab
05-31-2011, 04:24 PM
never mind the cost watching a shaper is better than vallium, on slow stroke strangely your heart rate will fall into sync with the machine weird or what?
mark

Bob Farr
05-31-2011, 07:20 PM
*** Lane, Monty, and I do these things for the pleasure of it *** This is our 'hobby'. Lane and I will probably have more money in these than will ever be recovered... but...

No need to explain, we understand. Carry on! :)

Evan
05-31-2011, 07:40 PM
Shapers aren't dead yet. I have my video on basic shaper operation and parts on U-Tube and it has over 2000 views. Funny thing about that is half of those views are from India. They must be using it as a training video since they still make plenty of shapers there in the Punjab.

Nice project Lane. I am looking forward to seeing the finished product. That is a lot heavier built than my 16" Whipp.

Evan
05-31-2011, 07:43 PM
All kinds of sparks and the chips were glowing (couldn't tell what color - B&W film!). Almost looked like hard turning, but waaay slower and the guy was wearing a protective suit a respirator. Looked like a real nasty job.


Uranium will ignite below 500F and is extremely flammable. It's a lot like Misch metal in lighter "flints".

lane
06-03-2011, 10:02 PM
Spent Thursday afternoon getting supplies for Shaper .Paint, body putty,Material to make clutch disk, and ordering bearings and seals.

Today we got all the loose parts taped and primed. Also painted the inside of the gear box with white epoxy paint ,will use the same inside the main casting. Got the bull gear painted black and the crank arm painted bright red.Gave Monty some machine work to do parts to fix and some to build Taking a road trip tomorrow to get a shaper vise from an old friend. Here are some photos . First is gear box partly assembled .Waiting on 2 seals that came in wrong,had to return and re order.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper016.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper017.jpg

Bull gear painted Black and the loose parts primed and taped .

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper015.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper014.jpg

More to come next week I hope.

ron-k
06-06-2011, 10:15 PM
You can buy a brand new shaper: http://www.lathemachinesindia(dot)com/shaping-machine.html.

lane
06-09-2011, 11:10 PM
Since last Friday been working my tail off on this old shaper. here are some more photos. Got main casting stripped of paint. Used easy off oven cleaner . Man that stuff works .Lot better than any paint remover I ever used . Only took 3 cans. And 1/2 day of scrubbing .Got up early about 6:00 finish by 10:00 and got it in garage to go over with wire wheel on 4 1/2 inch hand grinder.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper026.jpg
Some of the parts I got painted .
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper020.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper021.jpg
These are some dials I had my buddy Monty make He is doing a lot of the machine work for me. We going 1/2 on machine.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper022.jpg
More in next post .

lane
06-09-2011, 11:23 PM
Had to make a new clapper box . The old one cracked through the tapered pin holes . Monty roughed it out I finished it to day.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper022.jpg
The gear box is together and ready for paint
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper019.jpg

The ram and some parts are being puttied and primed
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper018.jpg
Hope to get main casting bond dooed and primed Sat. Still lots to do Took material to water jet place to get clutch plates cut out. Two were broken and cant buy parts for this thing . You have to make your own parts . Should get parts from platter being stripped next week And will get them Black Oxide instead of chrome.

lane
06-09-2011, 11:26 PM
Dont know what happened to clapper box photo will try again.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper024.jpg
Reaming for new taper pin.

lane
06-09-2011, 11:36 PM
If any of you have a large Shaper Please speak up I have no manual are major instructions on this machine . I do not expect any one to have one like it .But most shapers work the same . I know how to run it and set it up . And have a few books on shapers ,but cant for the life of me figuare out how to position the ram . I know how to change the stroke But I can find no mechanical way to position the ram to the right place on the work. Any help will be appreciated .
Evan how do you position your ram.

Robin R
06-10-2011, 12:24 AM
I have a 16" Alba shaper, it looks a lot like yours. I haven't played with it much, but I think you just loosen off the big square bolt on top of the ram and slide it to the position you want.

TGTool
06-10-2011, 12:34 AM
The red crank arm and black bull wheel will make a classy looking combination (on top of everything else). I thought too that the ram positioning was via the slot in the top and associate clamp but I'm no expert.

lane
06-10-2011, 12:49 AM
Yes the slot in the top and the binding bolt holes it in position . but how do you get it their .the ram will not push into the proper position . most shapers I have seen have a adjusting screw in the ram to position it . This on has nothing I can find.

The Artful Bodger
06-10-2011, 01:00 AM
If any of you have a large Shaper Please speak up I have no manual are major instructions on this machine . I do not expect any one to have one like it .But most shapers work the same . I know hot to run it and set it up . And have a few books on shapers ,but cant for the life of me figuare out how to position the ram . I know how to change the stroke But I can find no mechanical way to position the ram to the right place on the work. Any help will be appreciated .
Evan how do you position your ram.


Lane, my shaper is tiny but as you say most work the same.

When setting up I turn the mechanism to mid stroke then I move the tool to the centre of the work. On my shaper I loosen a nut on the side of the ram and can then manually slide the ram. On big shapers I understand this is a nut on the very top of the machine. Maybe on your machine you cannot manually slide the ram so I suggest turning the machine until the tool is mid point the loosen that nut and turn the mechanism until the mechanism is mid stroke and at that point tighten the nut. Then you need to set the length of the stroke to the length of the work plus a bit more for the clapper to do its thing etc.

Davo J
06-10-2011, 01:22 AM
Hi Lane,
I have a 24 inch Alba and a 10inch Douglas and both are different in the way they adjust the ram.
By the look of your the ram stroke will be adjusted by the square drive on the main shaft that holds the bull gear and the ram position will be adjusted manually.
These down loads would have to be the most comprehensive instructions I have found on shapers.
http://www.airgraver.com/shaper/

I have been following this thread and you are doing some nice work there.

Dave

lane
06-11-2011, 09:45 PM
To day my good friend Bill came and helped me bondo the main casting. early this morning. We go it looking better and I primed and got it painted . Along with the extra parts . Now I can rest some. Have to go back to work Monday . But need a week of rest doing nothing. It has been about 100 degrees all week and I been out in it . Working on this old shaper ,about killed my self . Still lots to do Have guards to make and stuff. but can take my time now and start assembling next week after work. So it may be going slow for a while. But the hard work is done. Hope by end of summer to be done.Here are some photos . Bill sanding Bondo.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper028.jpg
Bill sanding Bondo.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper027.jpg
The paint is a metallic brown. Came out nice but we could have applied Bondo for a month those casting were rough. but enough is enough . it is a machine not a custom car are bike.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper030.jpg

The loose parts .
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper031.jpg

lane
06-11-2011, 09:56 PM
Davo J could you post some photos of your Alba and Douglas I saw some on Youtube and they looked very similar to mine . I can not find any info on this machine . If any one can help with any thing about this company . Newey Engineering Co Ltd . Nottingham England they seem to be out of business are gone on to something different.

Davo J
06-12-2011, 12:08 AM
Hi Lane,
The Douglas is only a small 10 1/2 inch shaper so it is a lot different to yours but the Alba has some similar features.
Elliot bought out Alba so some of the earlier models where Alba's re badged, so your shaper manufacturer may have been bought out as well earlier one.

Kay Fisher's site may help you out finding info on your shaper.
http://www.neme-s.org/shapers/shaper_columns.html

Here are a few picture of mine from the adds on ebay. The only other pictures I have are of breaking it down to get it home and I have the Douglas apart at the moment giving it a clean up. On the Alba, the electric motor sits on a cast iron base on the back of the shaper, the motor was missing when I bought it.
More Alba pictures can be found here.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/new-me-alba-shaper-115314/

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Douglas20shaper-2.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Douglas20shaper201.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Alba24inchshaper.jpg

Dave

whitis
06-12-2011, 01:38 AM
I don't have a shaper but try this, assuming stroke length is already set: Let the shaper move the ram for you. Spin the bull gear (indirectly) until the ram is where you want the forward extreme of travel to be, then loosen the bolt on the slot at the top of the head and continue to turn the bull gear until it reaches the forward extreme of the stroke then tighten the bolt again. Or do roughly the same thing on the back end of the stroke. Or center the tool over the work, loosen, and adjust bull gear to top dead center and retighten (this can be done independent of stroke length setting). If the ram doesn't move to the position you want, you can inchworm along by loosening/tightening the ram adjust bolt at various points in the cycle. Do rotate the bull gear at least full turn on manual before powering up to see that the ram doesn't hit a hard limit during the cycle.

I appreciate your posting your rebuild photos.

Davo J
06-12-2011, 03:08 AM
Hi Lane,
The ram should be in the rear position to adjust the stroke length on the scale and when positioning the ram to suit the job, leave it in this rear position, un lock the clamping block and move it so it clears the back of job about 1/2 - 1 inch.
The ram should be able to be moved by hand once the clamping block is undone, if not your gibs are probably to tight.

If you send me your email through a PM, I will scan the shaper instructions (20 pages) from a tafe book I have here. It runs through all the basics of running a shaper, speeds and feeds, setting work up and a lot of other stuff.
There is more than enough info in this to get you going.

Dave

lane
06-12-2011, 07:43 PM
Well I was going to take it easy today. I guess this is what I call easy . Wife was gone this morning so thought since car was out of garage I would drag the engine hoist in and put the bull gear and the crank arm in the shaper
well one thing leads to another so here goes. Bull gear and crank in along with gear box.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper032.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper033.jpg

Gear box and operators side.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper034.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper035.jpg
Yes I just kept going. More in next post.

sasquatch
06-12-2011, 07:47 PM
A great looking restoration,, an interesting topic to follow along, thanks for taking the time to post all this for us.

lane
06-12-2011, 07:49 PM
Keeping at it I got part of the front end on .
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper037.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper036.jpg

At a stand still now need some parts from the platter getting de chromed then to black oxide. But looking at some before photos I may have to pull the crank arm out I think I got the slide block in up side down. It seems to work but is backward from my pictures.O well not to hard to do.

Davo J
06-12-2011, 07:52 PM
Looking good. My Alba is screaming out for a re paint, LOL I was going to re paint the Douglas but it seems to have cleaned up good enough with a scrub.

Dave

Al Messer
06-12-2011, 08:27 PM
Hey! This machine is going to be too pretty to get it all messed up with chips and cutting oil! LOL! You're doing a GREAT job on it. Thanks for posting your progress!!

Al

lane
06-12-2011, 09:23 PM
That is why I painted it brown . The oil want show so much. this machine does not have a oil pump . Every thing is grease are oil cups. So I suspect it will drip a lot.

Robin R
06-12-2011, 10:19 PM
Here is a picture of my 16" Alba shaper, while it was still at the sellers property. It's an old lineshaft era machine, hence the drive attached to the back of it, the extension to the table is just a weldment. There are definately some similarities with the subject of this thread, as well as Davo J's shaper, in particular the 3 bolts attaching the stroke adjustment and feed mechanism to the main casting, I haven't seen that on any other brands of shaper.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e287/robotherich/P1010247.jpg

lane
06-12-2011, 10:55 PM
The more I study all of this and watching You Tube I think my shaper may be some spin off of a Alba The design looks to be old but because of all the chrome that was used ,think shaper may have been bade in early 60`s. But it is not a modern looking shaper Every thing is old school design.like out of the 30`s are 40`s.

Robin R
06-13-2011, 12:30 AM
If Newey Engineering was only a small company, it probably wouldn't be economical to re-tool to a more modern design, especially at a time when shaper sales were declining anyway. A number of larger manufacturers did come up with more modern looking shapers, but in a lot of cases the workings were changed little, if at all.

lane
06-13-2011, 09:46 PM
Came home after work to day. Decided to take crank arm a loose and change slide block around to match my before photos. Well guess what . I had it right the first time . Some fool mussed have worked on it in the past long before I got it and they had it backward.I tried it their way . but slide block would not go to center and would not move out all the way. So that explains a lot,why shaper did not seem to work right when we were fooling with it before the tare down. Funny I new I was good I just did not know how good . So I put it back together like I had it the first time and every thing is Good.

Evan
06-13-2011, 10:28 PM
Evan how do you position your ram.


Without knowing how yours works exactly I won't try to explain. I don't need to anyway. As soon as you get it running you will figure it out in about ten minutes.

lane
06-19-2011, 09:42 PM
I got a little more done this week on the Shaper.
Made two handles for it . One a crank handle to adjust every thing ans a handle to lock the ram bolt.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper039.jpg

Also made a door cover for the hole in the side where the workings are and a ram guard foe the tail of the ram.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper042.jpg
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper041.jpg

The wife and I got it moved into the shop Friday afternoon. Man that thing is heavy. I had it in a buggy in garage and we pulled it across drive way through the yard around back to the shop and got it in the door and moved in to place. Don`t mess with my little 120 pound wife she can move machinery.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper040.jpg

More to come.

lane
06-19-2011, 09:54 PM
Saturday spent day working on feed mechanism and getting shifter to work right in gear box.Also got a few loose ends mounted like the box and front end. Got the gibs all adjusted ,and every thing oiled and working smooth. .Spent more time moving a few things around in shop so every thing would work right and have room to get to every thing easy. Daughter and new son in law came and had a early fathers day and brought me a new welding helmet I needed . along with a gift card to Outback Steak House. Sunday had to do a job for a fellow but did get to bore my slide out to make bushing with new acme thread for the new screw I made a few weeks ago. Need to tair into motor now and clean.
Boring out tool Slide in mill.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper038.jpg
Hope yall are enjoying this it is plain old hard work.

jugs
06-20-2011, 02:24 AM
Lane, you're doing a superb job & I love the colour. :)

In those last pics it looks too close to the wall, wind it out to max stroke, push ram back as far as you can, then hand wind a complete stroke, (they go back a surprising distance)

Mount a table or tool/material storage (that the ram can fly over) between back of machine & wall, to stop anyone being crushed. :eek:

Keep the pics coming

john
:)

lazlo
06-20-2011, 10:19 AM
Boring out tool Slide in mill.

Hope yall are enjoying this it is plain old hard work.

Yes, very much so Lane! :)

Bill Pace
06-26-2011, 04:12 PM
Went over and visited Lane for a few hours this morning and had a re-visit with the shaper that I dropped off at his house just 4-5 weeks ago fully thinking it was heading to the scrap yard because there was no way I could handle the 10L south bend and the Induma along with that shaper I had got in a package deal.

Well, it certainly aint a candidate for the scrap man now!! I had taken a pic of it sitting in the building where I bought the 3 machines - and a dismal sight it was - so, I took an "after" shot today to compare the "before & after"

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/pace1980/Shaperbeforeafter.jpg

Along with Lane doing the shaper, I am also deep into the SB 10L rebuild and I tell ya fellas, projects like these aint for the faint of heart! Not only is the labor intensive, the first thing you know, you'll have dropped a nice piece of change on all manner of un-thought of items - paint, bearings, this n that etc. But, as we often say, we dont play golf or fish or etc-- this is just what we do, and I must say, we do have fun at it ... I bet a lot of you guys know what I'm talking about, huh?

If Lane can get the guy to finally get around to doing the clutch discs, then he can finish the shaper up in just a few hours - which will be about a month to get all that hes accomplished, pretty impressive!

PixMan
06-26-2011, 04:44 PM
Hope yall are enjoying this it is plain old hard work.

I love work! Hell, I could watch it all day. :D

DATo
06-26-2011, 04:57 PM
That is one amazing restoration so far. That shaper looks like it has risen from the dead. I love this kind of stuff, but I agree with PixMan ... I love it even more when someone else is doing it. *L*

lane
07-02-2011, 10:02 PM
Well this got bury deep.Been busy with Shaper ,but its done now . Here is the END. Got my clutch plates from the water jet people Tuesday. and got the clutch together then I could run and make adjustments to machine . Here are the plates . It uses 3 but had them cut 6 in case I ever need some and We made two wear plates I guess you call them . Grinding them on my KO LEE.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper043.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper049.jpg

Here is my Free vise all cleaned up we made new Jaws for it and two tall 12 inch long parallel for it.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper048.jpg

Got the tail guard finished to day and painted and mounted .
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper052.jpg

lane
07-02-2011, 10:10 PM
The finish machine with the pulley guard I spent Friday evening sawing out and welding up .All finished and mounted.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper051.jpg

here it is taking a trial cut on some old rough plate.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper050.jpg

It came a long way from this.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper002.jpg

To thishttp://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper045.jpg
Hope yo enjoy. I AM NOT GOING TO REBUILD ANY MORE MACHINES EVER AGAIN.

BadDog
07-02-2011, 10:23 PM
What a beautiful job Lane. I must say I'm green with envy, but must also admit it would never have been so well done if I had gotten it. And thanks for posting it all, I've really enjoyed reading about and seeing it. You are a master...

boslab
07-02-2011, 10:39 PM
it is very very well restored, too well for me!, it reminds me of a restored steam engine i saw at york, all those levers, could do with a little polished copper pipe!
I dint have a shrapnel maker yet but have my eye on an old cinny 24" stroke, i may get it yet and i think i may well depart from dove gray gloss in favour of choccy brown, or mocca as its called in the coulour cat i just saw, where do they get these names.
much respect for your work, nice surface grinder too.
mark

justanengineer
07-03-2011, 12:24 AM
Very beautiful restoration. Regarding never doing another machine...you gonna take up golf now?

Frank46
07-03-2011, 01:40 AM
Lane, thanks for posting the pics on your rebuild. Excellent work. What size tool bits does the shaper take?. Reason I ask is that I have some 3/4" and 5/8" tool bits that were given to me long time ago. The 3/4" ones are still blanks with maybe one or two that have been ground. The 5/8" with maybe 1 ground. Think there are about 7 5/8" maybe the same 3/4". They are yours if you want them,
just pay for shipping. They are too big for my needs. If you ever had the opportunity to see Pratt Institute's steam plant in Brooklyn New York I think you would have become a convert to red enamel/with gold pin striping. There is some video I think on youtube. Thanks again, Frank

wierdscience
07-03-2011, 11:57 AM
Very nice job Lane!

jkilroy
07-03-2011, 01:32 PM
Fantastic work, I wish my machines were that clean. I wish I just had the time to TRY to make my machines look like that!

bborr01
07-03-2011, 01:56 PM
Lane,

Thanks for posting this thread. I have been watching it start to finish. Very nice job.

Brian

Thomas Staubo
07-03-2011, 07:03 PM
If you ever had the opportunity to see Pratt Institute's steam plant in Brooklyn New York I think you would have become a convert to red enamel/with gold pin striping. That would be an elegant looking machine, indeed.

There is some video I think on youtube. This would be it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1_dp7iMJ7c

DFMiller
07-04-2011, 02:05 AM
Lane,
Thanks for posting all your pictures. That's a mighty fine looking machine. I hope you don't stop doing your magic o old iron.
Thanks
Dave

Frank46
07-06-2011, 01:32 AM
Thomas, I had the pleasure of spending the better part of a whole day at Pratt. And did get to see most if not all of their steam plant. I would highly reccomend that if anyone has the chance to definitely take the tour and be amazed at the restoration work and how these machines operate. I worked with steam, both turbines and reciprocating for over 30 years. In the navy and Con Ed in new york. Thanks for posting the video. Frank

lane
07-13-2011, 06:37 PM
Needing some tool holders for the shaper . I tried E- Bay usually have good luck but not this time . Every one wants to pay more than me so i get out bid. heck why buy what you can build probably better any way.So I set in and built a few . A right hand bent and a left hand bent copy of Armstrong type. And a adjustable one . All Take a 3/8 bit . Made the two bent ones from 1045 and had them heatreated to 40-42 RC. Made the adjustable from mile steel so it could be welded together. Here you are .
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper054.jpg
These are the bent ones .
The adjustable one is this.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper053.jpg
All three together
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper055.jpg
And the adjustable one in the shaper.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shaper056.jpg

Cool hu.

DFMiller
07-13-2011, 07:07 PM
Lane those are so cool.
The adjustable one should suit all your needs.
Have you made many chips yet?
Thanks
Dave

lane
07-13-2011, 07:44 PM
Yes been playing around just cutting some big ragged pieces . Trying to figure out what I need to adjust and how to grind the bits . Think I will set up my cutter grinder this week end and make up a set of bits for it so I want have to search around for something close when I need to machine something. i have hundreds of bits boxed up But will grind up a set of all the types I may need . roughing and finishing right and left hand and any thing else I can think of. Still need to make some tooling for key ways and broaching square holes. and stuff.

macona
07-13-2011, 08:45 PM
The holders look nice. How did you broach the square hole?

Ought to black oxide them.

jkilroy
07-13-2011, 09:51 PM
When sharpening bits for a shaper, go easy on the back rake! For cast iron or brass NO BACK RAKE! The cutter will dig in and pull the work right out of the vise and trow it across the room.

Not that *I* would have any experience with that myself. No, not me, never. ;)

lane
07-13-2011, 09:55 PM
The holders look nice. How did you broach the square hole?

Ought to black oxide them.
About 1 1/2 hours each with square files . The came out nice.

Bluechips
07-23-2012, 09:15 AM
I just wanted to add an entry to this thread and let everyone know that I purchased this shaper from Lane after finding it on Craigslist. I had been looking for a nice sized shaper for several months. I had actually checked on this one before Lane and crew got it, but the owner had it in a package with two other machines and didn't want to seperate them. I was disappointed at the time, but glad I missed it now. The work Lane and his friends did on this machine is first rate.

To say that I am pleased with it is an understatement. It has gone to what I hope is a good home and I'm looking forward to making chips with it. The only problem is that the small area in my shop that I had set aside for machine tools now has to be expanded for all my tools to fit. Hopefully I can get that done in a couple of months and start cutting metal.

As happy as I am with the shaper, getting to meet Lane and see examples of his work was actully the high point on my day. A truly great guy.

Mike

lane
07-23-2012, 10:35 PM
Well I am glad some one wanted it to use . That thing was a labor of love and a lot of hard dirty work . And I lied I started on the Hardinge mill rebuild this week end. But have found nothing broken are wore out on it . It just need a good cleaning and paint. Thanks again Mike.