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.RC.
07-03-2011, 06:22 PM
What would be a suitable material to make a dozen or so quick change tool post holders out of..

They will be in the Aloris CA size which are impossible to buy here and freight is a big killer from overseas as they are so heavy...

If I make them out of 4140 prehard I will have to use 75mm round (as 4140 is not available in anything other then round here)

Otherwise I could use 1045 or 1020...

Mcgyver
07-03-2011, 06:30 PM
just use CR, 1020, whatever is cheap or handy. No need to get fancy, it won't make them any better and for your own use you won't wear them out or be so rough on them that they'll need hardening to avoid all the bumps and bruises

PixMan
07-03-2011, 07:02 PM
I'd choose the toughest material you can get, and 1045 seems to be that one on your short list. If desired, you can get a nie case-hardening heat treat out of it.

I can't believe you're not able to get even the better Chinese knock-offs there for a reasonable price. I pay about $26US for the No.2 here, from Tools4Cheap.net

I can't even buy a chunk of the raw material for that.

.RC.
07-03-2011, 07:55 PM
Aloris/Dorian tool posts were never sold here AFAIK... Our importers back in the day looked to Europe and the UK for imports of machine tools and accessories... As such the quick change tool posts for sale here are of the Swiss Multifix and another type @ around $100 a holder... In fact to see a lathe for sale with a quick change tool post fitted is rare... Most have the bog standard pain in the arse square four tool turret..

lakeside53
07-03-2011, 08:09 PM
1018 or 1020 will be fine...

form_change
07-03-2011, 11:06 PM
Personally, I just used a chunk of black bar. (Grade? what's that?). It worked quite well. I wouldn't use Aluminium as some have but bog standard steel should not be a problem. From memory I made up a strip of dove tail, docked it to length and then put in the other detail. The only odd bit were the adjustment threads which were some unusual pitch (M10x1, and on an otherwise imperial post).
I have bought second hand Aloris holders cheaply from the US and the freight was not too bad with priority prepaid boxes. Aloris will also sell direct into Australia too, which helps with spare parts if a holder needs some TLC.

Michael

PeteF
07-04-2011, 02:18 AM
I'd go 1020 Richard, whatever you like really, I can't see any reason to go fancy.

However before you go doing that, how many holders make up 20 pounds? CDCO sell them for about A$21.50 each and an international pre-paid box is about A$40 for 20 lbs worth. I'd expect you should be able to get 5 in the box(????).

Pete

bob ward
07-04-2011, 04:09 AM
However before you go doing that, how many holders make up 20 pounds? CDCO sell them for about A$21.50 each and an international pre-paid box is about A$40 for 20 lbs worth. I'd expect you should be able to get 5 in the box(????).

I've bought BXA holders from CDCO, I think there were 14 holders in a 20lb flat rate box. A CXA holder is a little less than twice the weight of a BXA, so you should get 7 or 8 in the box

Greg Q
07-04-2011, 04:53 AM
RC, I have used both tools4cheap.net and CDCO. Jeff at tools4cheap will work with you to maximise your shipping dollar by getting as close to 20 lbs as possible. My order from him came to 19 lbs 14 oz. :)

Greg

.RC.
07-05-2011, 04:47 AM
I'd go 1020 Richard, whatever you like really, I can't see any reason to go fancy.

However before you go doing that, how many holders make up 20 pounds? CDCO sell them for about A$21.50 each and an international pre-paid box is about A$40 for 20 lbs worth. I'd expect you should be able to get 5 in the box(????).

Pete

I worked out I can fit five of the the plain ones in a box.. That brings them to about $35 a holder or so...

Be nice to make some of my own though... I already have a 60 degree dovetail cutter I bought from ebay UK several years ago... UK built brand new co.HSS.

PeteF
07-05-2011, 07:05 AM
I worked out I can fit five of the the plain ones in a box.. That brings them to about $35 a holder or so...

Be nice to make some of my own though... I already have a 60 degree dovetail cutter I bought from ebay UK several years ago... UK built brand new co.HSS.

Yes I thought that was about right but wasn't sure if the holder weight a few retailers were quoting was accurate. I buy my minuscule AXA holders by the dozen and still have plenty of room in the box for other things :D ... groan, which reminds me I'm down to my last spare holder, I thought the number I had would last me forever! :(

With my little holders it's just not worth making them, but I guess the holders your size are a little different. If you could get the raw stock in suitable sizes it seems to me you could just cut one big long dovetail and then cut it up into individual holders. But having said that, by the time you count the cost of material, the screws, making up lock/adjustment nuts, wear on the cutter etc etc. it would be interesting to see how much they actually cost to make. You have a shaper too don't you Richard? That seems to be to be the tool of choice if you do.

Pete

John Stevenson
07-05-2011, 07:18 AM
I'm lucky in that we have a friendly heat treat shop literally over the road.

For something like toolpost holders I just use bright bar and send them over for Tuftriding. This puts a hard skin on only a few
thou or so deep but it stops the ding's. Upside is that it's very rust resistant, they have a long bar stood there in a bucket of salt water and there is all this rusty crud floating on top and the bar has a big growth stuck to it at the water line but if you pull the bar out and wipe it then it all comes off.

Another upside with Tuftriding is it's only done at something like 450 degrees so you don't get distortion and creep.

You can make something like a collet chuck, get it tuftrided and it looks real professional and stands up to daily wear.

Anything with threads on really wins with this treatment as it stops a lot of wear and scuffing.

.RC.
07-05-2011, 04:41 PM
But having said that, by the time you count the cost of material, the screws, making up lock/adjustment nuts, wear on the cutter etc etc. it would be interesting to see how much they actually cost to make. You have a shaper too don't you Richard? That seems to be to be the tool of choice if you do.

Pete

I do have a shaper, was going to sell it as well seeing it spends 99% of the time sitting taking up room...It would be handy roughing out jobs like this though, albeit a bit slow.. I know what you mean about costs of time, but I actually enjoy making tooling..


I'm lucky in that we have a friendly heat treat shop literally over the road.

I would shudder to think what that would cost to get done here...Probably not only just one testicle but a kidney as well...

PeteF
07-05-2011, 05:42 PM
I do have a shaper, was going to sell it as well seeing it spends 99% of the time sitting taking up room...It would be handy roughing out jobs like this though, albeit a bit slow.. I know what you mean about costs of time, but I actually enjoy making tooling..

I would shudder to think what that would cost to get done here...Probably not only just one testicle but a kidney as well...

I enjoy that side too, sadly it means I never get any "real" work out of the shop :D

Tell you what Richard, I'll make you a deal. I'll case harden your holders when you're finished ... guaranteed to be returned to you looking like pretzels, if you machine my camel back as nicely as you did your own ... guaranteed to be lost by Australia Post when you send it back :p

Pete

Forrest Addy
07-05-2011, 06:04 PM
AXA. Hmmm. Yup structural steel will work good providing you habitually work clean. Mild steel will bruise and deform with every little speck. It's definitely not reccommended for a parting tool holder subject to blade breakage. If left soft, the supporting corner may deform where the broklen blade fulcrums. Ive seen them deformes as much as 1/16". You want good steel at that location. Maybe a welded inlay of 120-18 D2 or a machinable hard facing material.

Got any wrecking yards nearby? Seems to me that an AXA would fit in the outline of a big truck leaf spring. That's pretty good steel but you'd have to anneal it on the barby to get it into machinable range. Find a suitable leaf, OA cut it into useable lengths. Anneal it and if the arch hampers progress roughly straighten it while its hot. Saw into pieces, set up a vise and stops. Machine to configuration.

If you want to make a few boring bar holders or holders needing a larger section than you can get from the spring you can re-forge it if you're ambitious or slack-off and look for a hunk the right size.

I'm a slack kind of guy. I made a zillion holders over the years mostly for other people but presently use a factory made system. Oh! The irony! (Get it, nudge - nudge "irony"? Talking steel and mentioning "irony?" Never mind)

.RC.
07-05-2011, 06:35 PM
AXA. Seems to me that an AXA would fit in the outline of a big truck leaf spring.

They probably would.... But I am after CA size :) 65mm X 45mm I think the section size is...

We have a locally made product called Bisalloy... http://www.bisalloy.com.au/Products.asp I have purchased slices of it before from a local steel merchant.... I wonder how it would go.. I know the harder grades are a bitch to machine though and would kill my dovetail cutter very quickly..

BradR
07-05-2011, 07:51 PM
Hi, first post on this forum, but have been reading here for a while.I now have time to enjoy my hobby so thought I should join a forum and this place is impressive. .RC. I usually by my 4140 steel off cuts from Bohler - Newcastle. They only keep round bar, but one day they had some 25x25 mm square. The guy serving said it had been a special order and that they order it from their Western Australia Branch, they stock square section.
An Internet search show that Bohler Uddeholm in WA list 4140 in square section 28 mm to 127 mm 850 1100N/mm2. Freight might be a problem! If u have a local branch they may be able to order it in, good luck with your search.
Brad

PeteF
07-05-2011, 08:58 PM
Forrest, it's me who has the AXA size, Richard has a man-sized tool ... hmm, no wait :p

For the AXA size, unless purely for the exercise it's simply not worth making them, they're under 10 bucks each landed at my door. But apart from the satisfaction of making them, once up into the size RC is talking about they start to get a bit pricey, so I can certainly see the attraction in looking at making a bunch. I can't recall how many I have, I'll say 25 off the top of my head, but will need to put in an order for ANOTHER dozen by the looks of things. At invoice time I'm glad I only have a piddling little AXA :D

Pete