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View Full Version : blew my lathe motor and the belts what a blast



airsmith282
07-12-2011, 06:37 PM
first day off in a week decided to get my customers parts done got to parting the 3rd one just got use to parting 304 SS at 330 rpm and smoke and shaking sounds and so shut it down coulnd find any thing so powered her back up started to cut and then it did it again this time the sound was really bad smoke was, wildly outof contol bubbling like gergerling sounds powerd it off unpluged it smoke cleared finely check the shaft on the motor well thats not good both caps also blew reallynot cool now.. \

melted 1 belt of the 2 ..

so new motor 2belts 280.00 tax and shipping inclued and will be back up and running by friday,, was not totaly surprise all the hours this puppy has on it was only time for something majore to go , thank god the tranny and bearings are all still good and so is the rest but dam that sucked,

seriously gong to invest in a second lathe i cant afford the down time i doubt this will ever happen again as iam not at the machine as much now that i used to so i should be ok but to take the risk its time for a second machine just in case ..

dam i love chinese equipment

Black_Moons
07-12-2011, 07:22 PM
Not that you'll listen, But melting a belt suggests not enough belt tension for transmiting the torque required to make that cut, Meaning your spindle was running much slower then the motor.

Smoking the motor suggests too much torque required period to make the cut, Maybe it was loaded down untill the start cap was continiously engaged. (Very bad)

meaning:

Try a thinner cutoff blade. 1/8" is considered HUGE even for a 12x36" lathe. try 1/16 or 3/32, feed in less, And oil it like crazy. I notice a big diffrence in the way the chips form as little as 5 seconds after a drop of oil hits the cut. (ie runs low on oil after 5 seconds) and often chatter after 10 seconds without oil. I basicly let a drop hit every 4 seconds.

Also try less rpm, especialy for harder steels like SS. And by less rpm I mean a slower gear if you have it, Variable speed motors slower won't help any

And less infeed. It takes amazingly little infeed to heavily load a cutoff, less then you would use while doing a finishing pass facing. One thing I try sometimes is stop infeeding and just watch the chips, It often takes a few seconds for chips to stop forming, Just because of spring in the work and lathe. If it takes a long time to stop forming chips, your pushing it too far. if it instantly stops making chips, you can probley push it a little harder.

Belt tension is likey about right, Since the motor and belt failed at the same time, Tightening the belt likey won't help things, just smoke more motors. Loosening it might save your motor next time.. Idealy before smoking the belt if you pay attention to the sound of your machine (listen for the slowing cut without the slowing motor, And the smell....)

So if anyone else besides airsmith has this problem, Feel free to take the above advice. Airsmith, feel free to argue about how everything I said is wrong and how you are doing everything just right and it was just a bad chinese belt/motor/capacitor/whatever, Because Im not gonna bother arguing back.

DougA
07-12-2011, 09:00 PM
Excellent reply. Accurate and entertaining.

airsmith282
07-12-2011, 09:12 PM
i dont think a 1/8 parting blade has anything to do with it my self i have had the machine for sever years now and thousands of hours on it so it was only a matter of time before the motor would blow.

id be really scared to use anything thinner then a 1/8 blade for parting.

given it was only the one belt out of the 2 that site side by side its likey just the capasitor fluid that nailed it ...

i keep a good eye on the belt tensions and do all the regual matiance on the machine,.. \\anything electricial is doomed crooked eventually and i never puch my machine to hard when it comes to turnning operations only heavey work it gets is when parting...

i have tried 115 230 and 330 for parting and no difference there,
and i always use pleanty of oil when parting any steels..

the motor just plain wore out, so will see how the new motor and belts do but iam defentally in the market for a second lathe i cant afford the down time when iam in the middle of a job really sucks..

lakeside53
07-12-2011, 09:33 PM
Motor "worn out"?

I've seen bad bearings, but rarely do they "wear out"; they do overheat and fail if overloaded.

WJHartson
07-12-2011, 09:39 PM
I will give you something else to look at. You didn't say what kind of lathe you have except that it is Asian. There is a cover plate that covers the motor and the lower section of the belts. Mine had one louver in it so not much area for the air flowing over the motor to go. I burned up one motor and replaced it. The second motor has an electronic box that throws the start capacitor out. It burned up but the motor was fine. Both failures were heat related.

I punched a lot more louvers in the end plate and now there is a lot of air that flows out of the louvers. Haven't had any more problems. Both failures took place in the heat of the summer. The temperatures are hotter this time of year. It might be worth your while to look the that panel and make a modification.

airsmith282
07-12-2011, 09:53 PM
i have the busy bee 10x18 b2227l lathe its a sweet machine but ya the caps went and so did the armatre on the motor it is loose so ya the motor is cooked,\\it has a built in fan in side so the motor does get cooled ok well seems to ..like i said i dont take heavey cuts with it but i know i can with the brass iam taking 80 thou a shot and its ok with it does not even think of slowing it down withthe ss i take 20 thou a time i dont like to take more cause iam mainly using hss cutters and dont want to resharpen them all the time and most of hte work is with a right hand tool i use brazed carbide cutter a fair amount but the job iam doing right now i have to use the hss i need the perfect flat face that the brazed cutters wont give me,,

gwilson
07-12-2011, 10:17 PM
Why do you keep using the back slash(\\\\\ ?) Is that supposed to mean something? Maybe you could try the exclamation point (!!!!!). Maybe even use the period once in a great while........ And capitalize the i(IIIIII).

David Powell
07-12-2011, 10:21 PM
My " big" lathe is a Busy Bee 13 " of about 1990, bought secondhand in about 1993. The original electrics worked for about 5 yrs then the switchgear went up in a cloud of smoke. I replaced them with a simple reversing switch and the original motor lasted about another 3 yrs and it too let out the magic smoke. It was nominally 1 1/2 horses. I borrowed an ancient Canadian made " Tamper" motor 3/4 horse from my portable compressor outfit to finish the job in the lathe. That motor, fed 220 volts is still there now. I have to slip the belt to get a good start in top speed, but otherwise there always seems to be enough power for my style of working. The compressor outfit has a secondhand 1/2 horse and slightly smaller drive pulley,and still seems adequate. Somewhere along the line I replaced the original belts with the link belts, they seem to need less power to drive them than the original, rather " Lumpy" belts. I think the Tamper cost me 10 $ I know the 1/2 horse cost me 20 $ and the reverse switch is a Princess Auto one that was about 30 $ on offer, it is feeling tired , but i have a free replacement available in my stock.The belts were new from Busy Bee and seemed expensive, but I cannot remember exactly maybe 50 $. Lathe earned me 1000$ week before last so I guess I cannot complain too much. Regards David Powell.

Stu
07-12-2011, 10:22 PM
So if anyone else besides airsmith has this problem, Feel free to take the above advice. Airsmith, feel free to argue about how everything I said is wrong and how you are doing everything just right and it was just a bad chinese belt/motor/capacitor/whatever, Because Im not gonna bother arguing back.


nailed it perfectly

airsmith282
07-12-2011, 10:28 PM
Why do you keep using the back slash(\\\\\ ?) Is that supposed to mean something? Maybe you could try the exclamation point (!!!!!). Maybe even use the period once in a great while........ And capitalize the i(IIIIII).

sorry i bought new laptop and the keyboard sucks on it iam getting use to it slowy i miss my old lappy

airsmith282
07-12-2011, 10:40 PM
nailed it perfectly

i know what caused the problem is thousands of hours of use , and given im not hogging metal its not a issue of biting to much all the time,, i always make sure the fan vents on the motor are clean al the time so its not starving for airflow .. that iam aware of other wise the motor would have blown years ago if that was the case,

using a 1/8 parting tool also not a problem for this size of lathe that blade size is used all the time on even 7x12 and 7x8 lathes so ummm now i dont usualy do parting at 330 rpm on SS but i fined that on 230 and 115 its way to slow i part off at 550 rpm on brass 230 on aluim , so ummmm thats not the problem and the lathe was not bogging on any of thoes speeds ever did not even get a bog down when the motor blew just went nuts on me smoked and that was the end of it, now iam not rulingout that the contacks on the motor are not the best but the wires were solid on the connections and giventhe desin on the hub the wires hook to the slack is forgivable and not an issue that i can really say illbe looking more into it once the new motor is installed as i want to know exactly want went wronge for now its alot of couldbe this or that likey this and not that but who really knows .. i blew a cap on a drill press once form using to big a drill for the machine cause it really bogged it down but that is not the issue here at all.

anyhow its old its got to many hours on it it blew up and its ok now i get a few days off till the new one arrives and ill be back up and running again ,and iam still going to find a second back up machine either way..

Duffy
07-12-2011, 11:04 PM
Black Moons got it EXACTLY. FWIW, my Logan has its original motor, circa 1946, and it spent most of its life earning money in a bearing rebuild shop. The motor on my Standard Modern is original 1965, and based on the first gear wear, it has had a long hard life.The motor on my compressor is a repulsion/induction unit with bronze bushings, made by Leland and it must date from the thirties.
Personally, I discovered 0.040" is a real good thickness for a parting tool. I cant chase it fast enough through an inch of brass and it is only a bit slower on 12L14.
But what the hell do I know?:rolleyes:
Airsmith, from the detailed description of HOW you managed to cook a motor and a belt, it seems that you fall into that category of craftsman, known in East Africa, as Anvil Breakers!:D

airsmith282
07-12-2011, 11:23 PM
Black Moons got it EXACTLY. FWIW, my Logan has its original motor, circa 1946, and it spent most of its life earning money in a bearing rebuild shop. The motor on my Standard Modern is original 1965, and based on the first gear wear, it has had a long hard life.The motor on my compressor is a repulsion/induction unit with bronze bushings, made by Leland and it must date from the thirties.
Personally, I discovered 0.040" is a real good thickness for a parting tool. I cant chase it fast enough through an inch of brass and it is only a bit slower on 12L14.
But what the hell do I know?:rolleyes:
Airsmith, from the detailed description of HOW you managed to cook a motor and a belt, it seems that you fall into that category of craftsman, known in East Africa, as Anvil Breakers!:D


see its this crap that makes me want to leave this board and no longer reccomed peopel to come here bunch of know it alls

so now were done bye bye

gwilson
07-12-2011, 11:44 PM
Bye Bye!!!!:)

RB211
07-13-2011, 12:21 AM
Wait, hold on one second, before you go, I must learn more about the anti gravity devices you speak of that B52's have.

macona
07-13-2011, 12:31 AM
Ooo.. I had to remove airsmith from my ignore list so I could read it, just looked to good.

An 1/8" parting tool on a little lathe like that!

hahahahaha...

The only time I use anything that thick is when I have to reach out. Other than that its a 1/16" t blade and I use that for everything from plastic to titanium.

The motor did NOT wear out. You destroyed it by abuse, plain and simple. A bad motor will not burn a belt.

mike4
07-13-2011, 06:10 AM
see its this crap that makes me want to leave this board and no longer reccomed peopel to come here bunch of know it alls

so now were done bye bye
I dont see how pushing someone off the forum is justified here.

He may be right or wrong , but he is entitled to his opinion.
I use 1/8 parting tips often , however I take LIGHT cuts if there is even the slightest hint of increased motor load.
I respect the methods of others even if they are not "industry standards", if it gets the job done without anyone or any damage to tools /equipment then do it.
I have learnt that if you want equipment to last you treat it with respect .

However nothing really pisses me off more than people who jump up and down over petty issues like what has happened above .

I thought that this forum was a site to help each other , not chase members away just because they do things differently or have different opinions.

Rant over ,hope all are satisfied.

Michael

Highpower
07-13-2011, 06:10 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/Highpwr/Smilies/popcorn.gif
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/Highpwr/Smilies/popcorn.gif)

aboard_epsilon
07-13-2011, 06:30 AM
There may be other things involved in the burn out of your motor and slipping belts

such as gear train gears too tight in mesh

head bearings too tight ..

lack of lube

the belts and motor happening together sugest abuse..but not necessarily using too thick a parting blade ..but lack of knowledge of things to do with upkeep of lathe as listed above .

all the best.markj

Black_Moons
07-13-2011, 06:33 AM
I dont see how pushing someone off the forum is justified here.

Nothing of the kind. Just many people are sick of airsmiths attitude towards everyones advice.


He may be right or wrong , but he is entitled to his opinion.

Sure he is. Problem is he acts like his opinion is fact, even when everyone else disagrees with him. Most dangerious is when he instructs others in his backward ways, people who don't know better. Unchallanged incorrect info looks like correct information to those who don't know better.


I use 1/8 parting tips often , however I take LIGHT cuts if there is even the slightest hint of increased motor load.
I respect the methods of others even if they are not "industry standards", if it gets the job done without anyone or any damage to tools /equipment then do it.
.. He did'nt take light cuts, Did'nt get the job done, and did damage his tools.
Many people use 3/32x3/4" blades in larger lathes then his and consider it huge and nearly too big. Myself? Im gonna be looking for some of those 1/16" blades, or maybe some 0.04" parting inserts. My 3/32"x3/4" blade is kinda too big still. (Tryed 1/8" it was hell, even on a 12x36)



I have learnt that if you want equipment to last you treat it with respect .
However nothing really pisses me off more than people who jump up and down over petty issues like what has happened above .
I thought that this forum was a site to help each other , not chase members away just because they do things differently or have different opinions.
Michael

Petty issues is complaining about capitalization. Although it sure would make reading airsmiths rantings easyer. Periods is a more valid point. those would REALLY help.

And trust me, We are trying to help airsmith. The only way we know how, Tough love*.

*- Also the only way he will let us help apparently.

A.K. Boomer
07-13-2011, 06:56 AM
There may be other things involved in the burn out of your motor and slipping belts

such as gear train gears too tight in mesh

head bearings too tight ..

lack of lube

the belts and motor happening together sugest abuse..but not necessarily using too thick a parting blade ..but lack of knowledge of things to do with upkeep of lathe as listed above .

all the best.markj



Kudos Aboard --- if there is one thing I notice on this board it is a bunch of jumping to conclusions,
granted 304 SS is about the nastiest stuff on the planet but 330 rpms with a 1/8" parting tool causing all this trouble - really?
Im not sure what A.S. has for equipment (maybe a 3 in 1 ?)

but if he's got a lathe with any balls at all and is not turning in his Y like he's trying to auger ice to go fishing then Im sorry but im not seeing it - no way shape or form - there just could be bigger fish to fry here gentlemen, try dangling a hook in the right place....

mike4
07-13-2011, 07:39 AM
And trust me, We are trying to help airsmith. The only way we know how, Tough love*.

*- Also the only way he will let us help apparently.[/QUOTE]
OK I,ll sit back and watch the fireworks ensue, as he seems to be set in his ways. no point in commenting anymore..
Michael

JCHannum
07-13-2011, 07:52 AM
It is a fairly well known fact that the Chicom motors are of very spotty quality. Forrest Addy recommends the best approach with a brand new motor is to dismantle it and take the armature to a rewind shop and have it dipped to prevent its early demise.

They stint on the varnish and eventually vibration catches up with them and they self destruct. Others have reported similar failures here at various times in the life of their machines. It sounds like that is what happened here, nothing more or less.

gwilson
07-13-2011, 09:26 AM
I had a Taiwan motor,3 H.P. arc across the bearings and blow out. Like JC said,they have not been dipped in varnish.

The electricians looked at it and said it(Grizzly motor) was a POS. Replaced it with a better made one. On the other hand,I have properly made USA motors that were made in the 40's and 50's still going strong.

My 1964 Sears drill press w/USA motor finally went out a few months ago,and it wasn't even a good grade of USA motor. My 1964 HLVH motor is still fine. Very old Master and G.E. motors on my much used bandsaw,and one on my metal shaper. Another 1940's Master still on my former Burke #4 mill.

The 3 H.P. Grizzly motor I mentioned was TAIWAN. What do you think Chinese motors' longevity might be? Lord save me from buying something with "Busy Bee" in it.

Airsmith claimed he was educated some time ago. Mentioned something about going to college. If he had more respect for his own posts,he could try to do better,and gain credibility. That,plus his own know it all attitude is what seems to bug everyone.

gwilson
07-13-2011, 09:26 AM
Duplicate post deleted

airsmith282
07-13-2011, 10:17 AM
I had a Taiwan motor,3 H.P. arc across the bearings and blow out. Like JC said,they have not been dipped in varnish.

The electricians looked at it and said it(Grizzly motor) was a POS. Replaced it with a better made one. On the other hand,I have properly made USA motors that were made in the 40's and 50's still going strong.

My 1964 Sears drill press w/USA motor finally went out a few months ago,and it wasn't even a good grade of USA motor. My 1964 HLVH motor is still fine. Very old Master and G.E. motors on my much used bandsaw,and one on my metal shaper. Another 1940's Master still on my former Burke #4 mill.

The 3 H.P. Grizzly motor I mentioned was TAIWAN. What do you think Chinese motors' longevity might be? Lord save me from buying something with "Busy Bee" in it.

Airsmith claimed he was educated some time ago. If he had more respect for his own posts,he could try to do better,and gain credibility.

sorry but iam not out to win a popularity contest here..its ausemed i blew it up but was not me, its ausemed i hoged metal again not me, its asumed the parting tool i use is to big nope not for the machine i have nor was it to big for the 7x12 i had, parting takes skill and a nack that i do seem to have that many dont , well takes a crap load of pratice that means time in not weekends in the shop a few hours here and there,

i dont abouse any of my tools never have ,

age and thousands of hours of use took out the motor not me...more the hours then the age but either way it fried and was not my fault at all.

i dont care if its made in the usa or china or germany or in someguys garage, hours of use will take out a motor and so dooes hogging metal me i dont hog metal so its hours of use,

most guys take 20 or 30 years to put on the same amout of hours that were on my lathe motor i did it in alot less time and less years .. i dont care much what anyone thinks my friends my neibours and my wife know how many hours a day iam out in the shop on lathe, this past few months time has not been as much but either way it was due to blow up and it did ..

once my lathe is back up and running ill do a video and show you all how you do parting a lath the right way maybe youll all learn something but it takes alot of pratice to get it right,and i had my times where even it scared the hell out of me but that dont stop me..

they say anyone can quit smokeing but it takse a real man to deal with cancer,
\well any one can claim to be a machinest but it takes hours and hours and hours to earn the title it also takes thinking out side the box which i have met alot of people over the years that cant even do that they think and belive that the books are the end allto be all and there is no other way , and that my friends is the bigest and total BS lie there is ..

take 5 min fiquire out how many years you have in and then add up the hours best you can then take thoes hours and divied them into days at 24 hours a pop then you will know for a fact how many years or months you have been at this it will only been then that you will be able to justify your true experience as a machinest if you have earn the title, remember anyone can be a machinest but there are bad machinests to not all are good ones..]

time in and qauility of the product you make and how well you take care of your tools speaks volumes and with that you will have knolwedge..

chinese lalthes and mills are as good and percise as the ower of the tool has the skills to use them ..

gwilson
07-13-2011, 10:21 AM
You SAID you were leaving. I have been machining since 1958 or 59. Add it up yourself,if you can. And learn to use the spell check. You informed us that you went to college. You would gain SOME credibility if you would not write at a 4th. grade level.

hitnmiss
07-13-2011, 10:35 AM
I've found an hour of listening to be worth 10 hours of doing...

lynnl
07-13-2011, 10:49 AM
I think a lot of 4th graders would feel greatly insulted. :)

airsmith282
07-13-2011, 10:56 AM
You SAID you were leaving. I have been machining since 1958 or 59. Add it up yourself,if you can. And learn to use the spell check. You informed us that you went to college. You would gain SOME credibility if you would not write at a 4th. grade level.

well if you could do some math you might just impress me

you cant even read and you tell me I write like a 4th grader

wow iam impressed well your old thats for sure but do the math now

24 hours in a day how many hours a day have you got in that is going to tell you how many auctual years of experience you have, now the clincher is are you a good machinest a fair one or a great one,, ummmm that would depend on the quaility of work you do on the jobs ...

and hitnmiss doing is learing sorry you dont learn nothing by just listening. takes hands on experience that counts more then listening you can have all the books smarts you want but if you cant do the task you have learned nothing.. no offence man but not well thought out,,just trying to help ya out a bit , i made similer statments and these guys wont let it go either...