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Seastar
07-17-2011, 11:46 AM
I am installing a winch on my JD tractor that can draw as much as 500 amps.
I need an inline battery cable connector that will handle that current.
I have looked all over the internet and haven't found a suitable unit.
Anyone know of an inline connector that will do the job?
Bill

Scottike
07-17-2011, 11:57 AM
Here's a link to a 400 amp/600 volt unit that may work for you if it only sees max amps intermitently.

http://www.marinco.com/product/400-amp600-volt-female-inline-brass-20-dss-all-colors

saltmine
07-17-2011, 12:00 PM
I seriously doubt if you ever will see 500 amps with the winch. That would drain most lead-acid batteries in about 1 1/2 minutes. And no alternator would be able to keep up with that kind of discharge.

When I worked in an auto parts store, we sold a connector designed for mostly electric vehicles and removable jumper cables (on a tow truck)
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/436577150/Anderson_Power_Connector.html Of course, these are only rated to about 350 amps, but this may be what you're looking for.

JoeFin
07-17-2011, 12:11 PM
I am installing a winch on my JD tractor that can draw as much as 500 amps.
I need an inline battery cable connector that will handle that current.
I have looked all over the internet and haven't found a suitable unit.
Anyone know of an inline connector that will do the job?
Bill

Locked Rotor condition is not the same as nominal operating amps

what is the FLA of the motor

alanganes
07-17-2011, 01:04 PM
I seriously doubt if you ever will see 500 amps with the winch. That would drain most lead-acid batteries in about 1 1/2 minutes. And no alternator would be able to keep up with that kind of discharge.

When I worked in an auto parts store, we sold a connector designed for mostly electric vehicles and removable jumper cables (on a tow truck)
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/436577150/Anderson_Power_Connector.html Of course, these are only rated to about 350 amps, but this may be what you're looking for.


Second that. That style of connector is the sort used on electric forklifts and the like. They are available in most any current rating you may require. Note that they are NOT designed to be connected or disconnected while current is flowing. That seems an obvious point but bears mention anyhow.

DFMiller
07-17-2011, 02:00 PM
Anderson power pole has a 700A version.
http://www.andersonpower.com/products/multipole-connectors.html
SBE700
Dave

macona
07-17-2011, 02:47 PM
+1 on the Anderson Power Poles, thats what they use on electric forklift batteries.

SteveF
07-17-2011, 03:00 PM
Looking at the Anderson connectors I notice it says "finger proof". New term for me, is it a good guess that it means "no matter where you put your fingers you won't get zapped"?

Steve

flylo
07-17-2011, 03:13 PM
I believe finger proof means you won't pinch your finger also make sure to use a breaker. I got mine on ebay direct from china in about a week for under $10/delv. I used a 400amp I think. It also has an on off switch I like.

Black_Moons
07-17-2011, 03:37 PM
Yea add a fuse. Carry a spare fuse too.

Seastar
07-17-2011, 03:40 PM
I calculated the current from the 6.6 HP (claimed) rating of the motor and that's 410 Amps.
The 500 amps is stalled- from the manual.
I'll bet I can get away with a 400 Amp connector.
Do you know of any other, cheaper solutions?
Thanks for the input.
Bill

Carld
07-17-2011, 03:50 PM
The jumper cable plugs you see hanging on the front of service trucks should do the job. Just get a good heavy duty brand.

If your planning on using the full hp of the winch all the time you need to get a bigger winch and use a four battery box to supply it. One heavy duty battery will never work for that job.

You can get a 125 amp alternator for your vehicle to assist the winch but you will have to run #4 wire from the alternator to the battery to the winch and that is only good for 100 amp. If you plan on drawing 500 amp I am not sure what size wire you will need but it may be #00 wires which are very big.

Do you see how ridiculous this can get. I don't think you need anything for 500 amps as you think you do.

EDIT: I just looked and #0000 wire is rated at about 400 amp.

macona
07-17-2011, 04:15 PM
Get forklift fuses. They make them that big. Generic breakers will not work in this application, they need to be DC rated. When a breaker or switch opens with high current dc it will draw an arc. DC breakers have a magnet which blows out the arc.

You only need to run that heavy of wire if you were running continuously, which if you do you will burn up the motor. The manufacturer should have the recommended wire size listed in the manual.

Seastar
07-17-2011, 07:22 PM
The 6 foot cables supplied with the winch are 25mm squared area.
That is about #3AWG wire.
Seems they supplied wire too small for the job if it really draws 400 Amps.
I guess it's ok for short pulls.
Bill

JoeFin
07-17-2011, 08:38 PM
Often times on large winches they install a couple of starter solenoid switches to allow 24 volt motors to run on 12v systems with dual batteries .

Evan
07-17-2011, 08:56 PM
Buy deep discharge batteries with side and top connectors.

Boostinjdm
07-17-2011, 09:44 PM
Buy deep discharge batteries with side and top connectors.

I want to hear your reasoning behind this. I went with a normal auto battery for my dump trailer with winch instead of a deep cycle. I'll explain why after hearing your side of the story.

J Tiers
07-17-2011, 10:33 PM
Buy deep discharge batteries with side and top connectors.


Standard Trojan T-105 6V batteries such as I use i the solar setup have a top connector only , for bolted lug connections. That is all you need.

Car batteries (old style) use a clamp connector that will work also.The new car batteries with the side connections are nothing but trouble.....largely due to the way they are recessed and the lead washers used to make contact.

As for the 500A, the winch can do one of two things......

1) pull the cable, in which case you can only do that long enough to wind it all in

2) stall, in which case you probably will figure that out and shut down pretty quick.

In neither case is the winch on for very long

Evan
07-17-2011, 10:53 PM
I want to hear your reasoning behind this. I went with a normal auto battery for my dump trailer with winch instead of a deep cycle. I'll explain why after hearing your side of the story.

Two main reasons. Many deep cycle batteries have 2 connectors for each end, one on the side and one conventional post on top. That makes it easy to tie in a heavy load directly at the battery, which is where it should be.

The other is why I use them on my Land Rover. It has an electric/hydraulic system that uses what is basically a heavy duty starter motor designed for high duty cycle service to run a 3000 psi hydraulic pump. It came off a highway snowplow. I have a 125 amp alternator on the Land Rover but it still can't handle the load of the pump when it is running.

When I am doing a lot of plowing the battery can withstand being drawn down a considerable way without damage. The standard deep cycle batteries have stronger plates to withstand vibration and also have more clearance at the bottom of the plates so they don't short as quickly from plate debris accumulation. The lead is alloyed with calcium instead of antimony which reduces the amount of evolved gas during discharge so the battery doesn't boil dry.

I get around ten years out of a battery. A standard starting battery would be toast in a couple of years, as I have found out.

BTW, I have owned the Rover for about 35 years.

J. Randall
07-18-2011, 12:37 AM
Standard Trojan T-105 6V batteries such as I use i the solar setup have a top connector only , for bolted lug connections. That is all you need.

Car batteries (old style) use a clamp connector that will work also.The new car batteries with the side connections are nothing but trouble.....largely due to the way they are recessed and the lead washers used to make contact.

As for the 500A, the winch can do one of two things......

1) pull the cable, in which case you can only do that long enough to wind it all in

2) stall, in which case you probably will figure that out and shut down pretty quick.

In neither case is the winch on for very long

I like the batteries that have the side connections, have also used the ones with the side and top posts, never had any problems with either type. I assume you are talking about the type that has been in use for yrs. If they make them with recessed holes and lead washers, I guess I have never came across one of them.
James

J Tiers
07-18-2011, 12:57 AM
I like the batteries that have the side connections, have also used the ones with the side and top posts, never had any problems with either type. I assume you are talking about the type that has been in use for yrs. If they make them with recessed holes and lead washers, I guess I have never came across one of them.
James

The recessed ones I referenced as "car" batteries......

I find the side deep cycle a pain, as they don't nest up in groups well that way in a battery tray. the wires and so forth get in the way.

The top type are a stud sticking up, in which case you hold a lug down with a hut, OR a "lug" type with a flat vertical piece with hole, through which you bolt the wire lug down.

Side types I have not used for years, IIRC they were like the top ones.....

Auto batteries have the slightly conical terminals that take a split clamp terminal., OR side terminals that take a screw, the battery having a threaded hole (in lead, so it loosens up a lot). The terminal is sometimes (side type) "guarded" by being recessed in a plastic ring, so that laying a flat lug on it won't make contact. The makers put a lead ring on wire harness to make contact in the recess.

Boostinjdm
07-18-2011, 02:38 AM
Two main reasons. Many deep cycle batteries have 2 connectors for each end, one on the side and one conventional post on top. That makes it easy to tie in a heavy load directly at the battery, which is where it should be.

The other is why I use them on my Land Rover. It has an electric/hydraulic system that uses what is basically a heavy duty starter motor designed for high duty cycle service to run a 3000 psi hydraulic pump. It came off a highway snowplow. I have a 125 amp alternator on the Land Rover but it still can't handle the load of the pump when it is running.

When I am doing a lot of plowing the battery can withstand being drawn down a considerable way without damage. The standard deep cycle batteries have stronger plates to withstand vibration and also have more clearance at the bottom of the plates so they don't short as quickly from plate debris accumulation. The lead is alloyed with calcium instead of antimony which reduces the amount of evolved gas during discharge so the battery doesn't boil dry.

I get around ten years out of a battery. A standard starting battery would be toast in a couple of years, as I have found out.

BTW, I have owned the Rover for about 35 years.

My research had led me to believe that a normal auto battery (starting battery), is better suited to a large amp draw followed by being topped off. A Deep cycle is better suited to a lower amp draw over a long period of time and then fully charged. Something about starting batteries having thicker plates to keep from burning up under heavy load. In my mind a starting batt is better suited to winch/hydraulic unit use when attached to a vehicle with a charging system. The different posts/mounts don't mean much because almost any configuration is available if you look for it. I've gone with side posts in the last few projects because I didn't have clearance for the top posts.

J Tiers
07-18-2011, 11:02 AM
My research had led me to believe that a normal auto battery (starting battery), is better suited to a large amp draw followed by being topped off. A Deep cycle is better suited to a lower amp draw over a long period of time and then fully charged.

That is pretty much true, for equal-sized batteries.

And so long as you take relatively little charge out of the battery. The battery makers have optimized them for a 4 year and 1 month life (goes with the 4 year warranty), so long as the "life" is a quick heavy draw.

A typical starting battery may be 60 ampere-hours. 7 seconds of 500A is about 0.1 ampere-hour. Most starts take less in warm weather.



Something about starting batteries having thicker plates to keep from burning up under heavy load.


Definitely NOT true.... Starting batteries have many thinner plates, to get the current electrochemically. More area means more amps capability.



In my mind a starting batt is better suited to winch/hydraulic unit use when attached to a vehicle with a charging system. The different posts/mounts don't mean much because almost any configuration is available if you look for it. I've gone with side posts in the last few projects because I didn't have clearance for the top posts.


I have an S-10 with side mount threaded hole connections. I have to keep tightening the screw every 6 mo or so, because it works loose. NEVER had that happen with the traditional tapered post on top.

Black_Moons
07-18-2011, 11:35 AM
Definitely NOT true.... Starting batteries have many thinner plates, to get the current electrochemically. More area means more amps capability.


not only do they have many thinner plates, But they have 'rough' plates as well, to further incress surface area. Think soft sponge.

Deep cycles have fewer, thicker, flat, hard plates. Not nearly as much surface area, hence much higher internal resistance (Its the surface area that determins most of the resistance, the plates are very conductive themselfs)

Evan
07-18-2011, 02:37 PM
A deep cycle will still put out the required current. I have some 20 amp hour VRLA batteries that are rated at 230 amps max current.

A long run of winch cable will discharge a starting battery much more than what they are intended to handle.

whitis
07-18-2011, 03:17 PM
Anderson power pole connectors come in a variety of sizes and are very common for high current DC applications. I have run 50HP motors (not fully loaded) off a 7500lb battery bank (5 24V forklift batteries in series) using one of the larger sizes. Much smaller ones are used on my portable jump start pack.

Note that what is offered on alibaba is a clone, not a real anderson power pole.

At higher voltages, do beware that the larger connectors are of such size that you can easily put a finger into the connector and touch live contacts.

Don't hot plug with a load (on these or any other connectors at high current) - the contacts can spot weld.

For intermittent duty (not unattended) the 350A version is likely to work even though your peak current exceeds the continuous rating. You will probably burn up the winch, run out of cable, or drain the battery before you fry the connector. And that size is bulky enough.

J. Randall
07-18-2011, 11:56 PM
The recessed ones I referenced as "car" batteries......

I find the side deep cycle a pain, as they don't nest up in groups well that way in a battery tray. the wires and so forth get in the way.

The top type are a stud sticking up, in which case you hold a lug down with a hut, OR a "lug" type with a flat vertical piece with hole, through which you bolt the wire lug down.

Side types I have not used for years, IIRC they were like the top ones.....

Auto batteries have the slightly conical terminals that take a split clamp terminal., OR side terminals that take a screw, the battery having a threaded hole (in lead, so it loosens up a lot). The terminal is sometimes (side type) "guarded" by being recessed in a plastic ring, so that laying a flat lug on it won't make contact. The makers put a lead ring on wire harness to make contact in the recess.

J, Sorry I was not clear, I was also talking about car batteries, used to mechanic for a living and have removed a lot of the side types, all had lead that was flush with the side, have laid a copper terminal right against it many times and made good contact. I have never seen one with a deep recess nor a lead washer made on the end of a harness to go down in it. That was why I asked if it was something new, as I have been out of it for a few yrs.

J Tiers
07-19-2011, 12:34 AM
J, Sorry I was not clear, I was also talking about car batteries, used to mechanic for a living and have removed a lot of the side types, all had lead that was flush with the side, have laid a copper terminal right against it many times and made good contact. I have never seen one with a deep recess nor a lead washer made on the end of a harness to go down in it. That was why I asked if it was something new, as I have been out of it for a few yrs.

2000 S10...... the recess is not a lot, but enough that I'd have to scrape off some plastic.

But, battery is an Autozone battery, original lasted its 4 years, replacement Autozone lasted its 4 years, new one is due to go out about March 15 2012.

Maybe Autozone did it, I dunno if the OEM had that.

Forrest Addy
07-19-2011, 01:14 AM
Here you go.

http://www.andersonindustrialandmining.com/Industrial/battery_connectors.html

Insulated on both male and female ends. No accidental contact with the current carrying parts possible - well, almost but you'd have to really try. .

BadDog
07-19-2011, 01:25 AM
With my old rock buggy (truggy), I had dual red-top Optimas and bus bar (from CUCV 24V system) with a large frame 125A truck alternator on serpentine. Everything ran to/from the bus bar (including a ground bus). Large fine strand 00(?IIRC?) welding leads for batteries and winch, 4ga (IIRC) from the alternator. All high amp (large) wire used brass military connectors (aka marine terminal) and/or crimped and soldered copper lugs. The winch (and protective bars/cage) was mounted on 2" x 0.250 wall square tube to mount front or rear on the buggy, it also had a receiver mount on the front of my trailer. All mounting points for the winch had fine stranded copper leads run to the high amp Anderson connectors (blue) for easy use in all locations. I really wanted to use the military CUCV implement plugs, but military collectors have inflated the prices too much (IMO), and the Anderson plugs are ubiquitous as well as relatively inexpensive. The trailer had it's own Optima and tied into my 100A rear truck harness for charging. With a few short lug "jumpers" in my trail box, combined with the marine/military lugs on the batteries, I could quickly combine parallel or serial as needed for added juice, welding, boosting someone in a place where you really couldn't get a second vehicle, etc...

Anyway, that winch would haul my 4000 lb truggy (and on many occasions, someone else's as well) straight up vertical walls with basically no vehicle assist. So I think it will serve you well.

Seastar
07-20-2011, 04:55 PM
I decided to skip a connector and connected the winch directly to the tractor battery.
Here is a picture of the mount I fabricated and welded/bolted to the tractor.
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/7503/img0513c.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/img0513c.jpg/)
Bill

DFMiller
07-20-2011, 05:18 PM
Nicely done. :-)
You wont have any voltage drop across the connector.
Dave