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rohart
07-23-2011, 06:00 PM
Our Turkish resident member has just posted about his ideas for machine dollies. I made some dollies recently, and thought I'd post with a picture,

Then I thought, maybe I should post it in the Shop Made Tools sticky. Then I thought how I almost never look at that thread nowadays because it seems almost unmanageable.

There's no index.

You can't search it.

Some projects need several posts, some are just one.

What we really need is a project indexing system. Not search. An index of keywords you can scroll through to find projects you are interested in.

It would mean a bit of work, but anyone who was posting about a project of theirs would be able to add their post to the indexing system. If a keyword that described their project was not already in the index, they could add a keyword to the index.

The moderators would be ably to review recently added keywords and recently added links, and chuck them out if they were not deemed worthy. Like no indexing for OT political discussions !

The Shop Made Tools would start it off. The moderators would have to create enought keywords to cover every worthwhile project in the thread. The link would only lead to the first post, but it would get the searcher in the right ballpark.

VBS would have to come up with the software, but holding and making available a file of keywords with multiple page links under each one doesn't sound too difficult to me. The display format could evolve.

Whaddya say ?

flylo
07-23-2011, 06:50 PM
:D Great idea!:D

Doc Nickel
07-23-2011, 07:27 PM
I've already mentioned several times, including in the thread itself, that the "one thread for everything" idea is at best counterproductive.

That thread has some 1,300 replies- of which about half are relevant posts, and the other half are "hey that's really cool" responses. It's unreadable and almost unsearchable, and since only a fraction of the board's regulars even bother reading new replies, anyone interested in feedback from their project is shorting themselves.

Why, after all, do we have a special thread for posting machine shop projects, in a board dedicated to posting about machine shop projects? Just because it happens to be specifically about tools? Then why not have one specifically about chucks, or specifically about quickchange toolposts, or specifically about DC motor conversions and yet another about 3-phase conversions.

The end result is something like CNCZone where all the readers are chopped up into a hundred subsections, with each subsection only having a handful of readers, and there being little or no cross-pollinization.

At this point, the thoroughly-bloated tools thread needs to be locked, and posters need to go back to posting submissions to it in the regular, general forum, where they'll be easier to find, easier to search, and more likely to be read.

Doc.

Black_Moons
07-23-2011, 08:42 PM
Hmmm, It would have to be sorta like one of those 'tags' indexed image sites.. Cough. cough. + text discription links from the tags perhapse.

I know of some great websites with such software... But I doubt I should post any of the urls here! hah.

Andrew_D
07-24-2011, 12:01 AM
Does anyone else here use Google's Advanced Search feature? (http://www.google.ca/advanced_search) You can target a certain search word towards only this website. Excellent!

I will admit that it will return multiple hits to the same thread, but you'll get the exact page that the search word is in. Then you only have the one page to scan to find the word. (If you are extra lazy, you could then get your browser to search that particular page...)

For example, I just searched for "machine skate". I got hits that included the Shop Made Tools thread. Type "Shop Made Tools" into the browser search and I quickly click through the links for hits to that thread. (Pages 21, 123, 127 and 126)...just what I was looking for!!!!

Andrew

dp
07-24-2011, 12:19 AM
Google has already indexed that thread. Indexing it again is just a lot of work. The fastest way to index this site is to write some SQL code and work directly with the database where all the site text and structure information is held.

J Tiers
07-24-2011, 12:27 AM
I have quit looking at the tools thread.... same reasons..... I have a dozen or so posts in it, but where, I have no idea..... too lazy to try the worthless site search.

mebbe google search would work better, have not tried that.


The tools thread is so big now that it is impossible to use unless you have seen it all, or know what you want to search for, and even how it is (maybe) mis-spelled.

As an "idea thread", it has gone from very hard to look through, to "nearly impossible". It could nearly be deleted without any harm done, as far as I am concerned.

Black_Moons
07-24-2011, 12:50 AM
Doc makes a good point...
We would also have more ontopic threads if everyone made new threads about thier cool tools... I'll admit iv gotten lazy and stoped reading the tools thread, even though its freaken awsome.

Maybe what we should have insted is a sticky that LISTS all the tool threads insted?

Then at least each tool is post 1, and really does no affect googles ability to index the site.

Maybe we could use a common prefix in the topic to make searching a little easyer and make it more apparent when you wanted to get added to the sticky list? Like "ShopTool: Newfangled nut"

gundog
07-24-2011, 01:15 AM
Have you ever tried to use the search this thread feature and then click on go advanced. You can search by name date or subject it seems to work for me. It is better than a general search.

I tried it when you go advanced it searches all threads that sucks.

Mike

DATo
07-24-2011, 08:07 AM
There is a very doable solution to this problem. I've PM-ed Craig to get his opinion and if he is in agreement I think we may have the beginnings of something soon. I don't mean to sound so vague but I'd rather not elaborate till I've heard back from Craig. If things move to the next level I'll post a thread topic in the General forum with details.

lynnl
07-24-2011, 01:41 PM
This all has an element of humor. :)

I'm reminded of what Mrs. Webster said: "Noah, it might be easier to use if you put them in alphabetical order."

DATo
07-24-2011, 06:03 PM
This all has an element of humor. :)

I'm reminded of what Mrs. Webster said: "Noah, it might be easier to use if you put them in alphabetical order."

Bad idea lynn. That would put the ants right next to the anteaters. [;-)

J Tiers
07-24-2011, 11:28 PM
Thing of it is with site search here, as with most searches, it is "exact match", AND 3 letters or less gets tossed.

* if something is mis-spelled, by you, or byt the original author, you won't find it.

* if you don't know what it is called exactly, it is probably no-go.

* if the AUTHOR called it something that isn't standard, again you are up the creek.

* Common machining abbreviations, like HSS, DRO, DOC, SFM, etc, are thrown away, and will not be searched on. And of course those are common enough, as well as unlikely to be spelled out with their full proper names, since we all know what they mean.

The result is that I have had to give up on certain searches, just because I could not get search terms that gave reasonable results. A search capability that refuses TO search for what you need is not a "search" at all, it is a 'counterfeit" of a search.

rohart
07-25-2011, 06:33 PM
I would have thought by now there was some add-on code that could be used to help construct a 'nearly search', in Perl or whatever the VB is written in, just like there was some regular expression search parser code available in the eighties.

But the misspelling problem is why Black Moons' prefix solution wouldn't work. Unless the thread starter could edit the thread name later, or the moderators undertook to check all prefixes.

DATo, will you tell us what your idea was even if it gets the thumbs down from Craig ?

bborr01
07-25-2011, 09:03 PM
Gentlemen,

When I started the shop made tools thread a year and a half ago or so, I figured it would be a thread that would be around for a while. I really liked the idea of sharing knowledge among like minded people.

A few months in, I could see that it would become too large to navigate efficiently.

I discussed in a few threads and in the SMT thread the idea of turning the thread into a website that would be easy to navigate and helpful for anyone who has an interest in machining and related matter. I already bought the domain name shopmadetools.com.

The idea of owning a website and maintaining it is easier said than done. Copyrights, permissions, learning how to do web design and then doing it takes a lot of time or a fair amount of money in hosting fees, software, etc.

I have talked to a few web designers as recently as this past Saturday and would still like to move forward with a SMT website but the cost factor and the time factor have been something that have been stalling me.

I have permission from one or more of the contributors to the thread to use their posts, but only in a non-commercial way.

To do a nice website and host hundreds of pages of machinist eye candy is not cheap to host or design.

How can I justify hundreds of hours of my time and thousands of dollars of my own cash and not be able to recoup any of my costs?

Ideas? Thoughts? Lets hear it.

Brian

dp
07-25-2011, 09:16 PM
Sadly if not predictably, there are a number of missing images already. I have a recollection that George had a suggestion on what might happen with that thread. It is currently a jumbled mess having grown organically for some time, but it is a trove, to be sure.

Seems like a great collection for an HSM bedside reader series as assembled by Guy Lautard as one way to monetize it. If not in dead tree format, then CD/DVD.

Your Old Dog
07-25-2011, 10:57 PM
sounds to me like a lot of you guys don't download the interesting pics of these projects. I download every image I have an interest in because I have a lousy memory and have problems with the search engine like some others here. Nice thing about my downloaded images is that it is extremely entertaining to peruse those files and refresh my memory of just how many of them I like and what I'd like to work on next.

J. Randall
07-25-2011, 11:37 PM
Brian, when you started the thread and made that suggestion, I kind of thought then that you were stepping into our hosts territory. I feel like if they are kind enough to host the forum, they should have first right to the material for a reader or tips book. No horse in the race, but you ask for thoughts, and those are mine.
James

bborr01
07-25-2011, 11:43 PM
Brian, when you started the thread and made that suggestion, I kind of thought then that you were stepping into our hosts territory. I feel like if they are kind enough to host the forum, they should have first right to the material for a reader or tips book. No horse in the race, but you ask for thoughts, and those are mine.
James

James,

The hosts of this site and I discussed that in a separate thread and agreed that I could do a website and they could do a book. George stated that he was not looking to turn SMT into a website. The idea was that I could promote their book and they in turn could promote my website.

Brian

dp
07-25-2011, 11:47 PM
James,

The hosts of this site and I discussed that in a separate thread and agreed that I could do a website and they could do a book. George stated that he was not looking to turn SMT into a website. The idea was that I could promote their book and they in turn could promote my website.

Brian

There's not enough there to build a website but there's plenty there to add to an existing website. This one would do as well as any, but this site hasn't any non-BBS content - that can be corrected.

J. Randall
07-26-2011, 01:10 AM
James,

The hosts of this site and I discussed that in a separate thread and agreed that I could do a website and they could do a book. George stated that he was not looking to turn SMT into a website. The idea was that I could promote their book and they in turn could promote my website.

Brian

Brian, that is great, in my opinion the way it should be done. I did not go back and look for that thread to refresh my memory. You asked for thoughts and I gave mine.
James