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gwilson
07-27-2011, 05:14 PM
http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h463/gwilson5/IMG_0410.jpg

This is a beak iron I made especially to fit into the hardie hole in my anvil,thus the straight shank,rather than the tapered ones normally seen. It jams right into place.

It is made from 01 steel,hardened to about 55 R.C..

The shank is mild steel,welded on.

The round beak,and the top of the square one,are highly polished,as I made it for use on silver work.

lazlo
07-27-2011, 05:24 PM
It's called a "Bick Iron" George.

Evan
07-27-2011, 05:47 PM
Bick is a corruption of the word becca which is Old English for "pickaxe". Becca is derived from the Latin Beccus which means beak.

lazlo
07-27-2011, 05:51 PM
Blacksmiths call it a "Bick Iron" Evan. George called it the right name when he posted it on PracticalMachinist and SawMill Creek:

A bick iron I made
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/bick-iron-i-made-212667/

http://www.blacksmithsjournal.com/images/iss_114c.gif



Bick irons are similar to anvils, but they have no base. The end of a bick iron is commonly driven into a wood block or tapered stake holder for use. The bick iron shown this month is secured in the hardy hole of an anvil and used for working small pieces of steel or iron hot.

gwilson
07-27-2011, 05:53 PM
Again,something I was assumed to not know,so another point could be scored. Bick is slang as you said,Evan. Beak is really correct. I have been around blacksmiths for 39 years.

If I wanted to use colloquial terms,I could have.

P.S. If you know I used the term "bick iron" already,on the P.M. site,why are you acting like I didn't know the term? Either term is correct.

lazlo
07-27-2011, 05:57 PM
P.S. If you know I used the term "bick iron" already,on the P.M. site,why are you acting like I didn't know the term?

So why did you post it with the correct name on all the other forums, and used an obscure term for it here?

lazlo
07-27-2011, 06:00 PM
I have been around blacksmiths for 39 years.

Have you done any blacksmithing?

flathead4
07-27-2011, 06:04 PM
So why did you post it with the correct name on all the other forums, and used an obscure term for it here?


No one cares.

But I do enjoy seeing the craftsmanship.

Tom

gwilson
07-27-2011, 06:10 PM
Of course I have done blacksmithing. I was the Master Toolmaker in a very select group of craftsmen for many years.

Do I have to post pictures of my anvil,tongs,and Whisper Daddy gas furnace to prove it to you?

You seem to have no eye for fine workmanship,and just want to pick it apart,don't you?

davidwdyer
07-27-2011, 06:15 PM
Good grief!!!

What's all the "Bick ering" about???

Maybe I missed something, but unless a lot of folks already had it in for gwilson, I think that some on this forum need something real to do...besides pick apart someone else's work which they posted here.

Soon, I'm going to be afraid to post anything if everyone is just going to pick it apart.

lazlo
07-27-2011, 06:17 PM
No one cares.

Actually, a lot of people do.

George storms into the Home Shop Machinist Forum, calls everyone "amateurs", and accuses the authors of the Home Shop Magazine articles as "those who can't do, write articles."

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=48783&page=5&


Some people like to write articles. They take pictures through every step of a project,spending a lot of time doing that. Then,they write an article.

I think it's kind of like the old saying "those who can't do teach".

...

It irks me that amateurs are gotten to write articles so they can see their name in print,but their wrong information misleads those who do not know better.

Then, to support his claims of superiority over the amateurs, he posts these threads.

I suggest if George is going to be so free with his criticism here, he'd better be prepared for a critique of his work.

aboard_epsilon
07-27-2011, 06:22 PM
looks like its made to penetrate where the base of the scull ends and the spine begins

lethal ..me thinks ..like the knives

all the best.markj

Oldbrock
07-27-2011, 06:36 PM
Quit picking. Beautiful work, Where do you get your letter stamps and how do you keep them in line? Peter

lazlo
07-27-2011, 06:40 PM
David,I agree. I have reported Lazlo's behavior to Mr. Bulliss.

That's funny, since you've been publicly warned by George twice about being belligerent to the contributors here. The first time in that thread I posted above.

gwilson
07-27-2011, 06:42 PM
Oldbrock,I make a lot of my stamps,but those you can see were made by Buckeye Engraving. They have made many stamps for me as toolmaker,and my replacement,and my wife's jewelry business.

I don't know what their prices may be by now,but the G.Wilson was something like $75.00 years ago. It isn't worth it to hand make full names when you can get them very perfectly made reasonably.

JBL37
07-27-2011, 06:42 PM
But excellent work does. That is a nice piece of craftsmanship. Jim

sasquatch
07-27-2011, 07:13 PM
ANYWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:


Yes, nice workmanship Geo, and your'e postings are much appreciated, interesting things!!!

lane
07-27-2011, 07:14 PM
Well I have never entered one of these arguments.But at least Gwilson post some of what he does. Lazlo i think is pretty smart but other than a hammer head he made he never post any thing he has built except fixing a mill head one time . Lets see a model of something are some fancy machine work . Even Evan post projects some times. Keep it up gwilsin.

Oldbrock
07-27-2011, 07:25 PM
The comment "those who can't do, teach" deserves comment. I machined for 20 years then taught for 30. I can do and I can teach. If you can't do then you shouldn't be teaching. I presume we are all learning something new each day, even the know it alls. Peter

gary350
07-27-2011, 07:25 PM
There is no such thing as a pickaxe. That is like hosepipe. It is not possible to have a rubber metal hose. Pipe is pipe and hose is hose. You can have a pick, axe, shovel, rake, hoe, etc.

sasquatch
07-27-2011, 07:28 PM
Oh for Pete's sake!!!!

Now we have a confrontation about pickaxes and hosepipes of all silly things!!:rolleyes:

Like WHO THE HELL CARES!!:rolleyes:

Deepest_Valley
07-27-2011, 07:30 PM
Beak, Bick, Becca, Beccus or whatever it is called, it is a fine piece of workmanship. Max

Carld
07-27-2011, 07:41 PM
gwilson, that's a nice anvil attachment you made. As good as it looks you can call it anything you want to but I guess from now on we will have to goggle all the possible names and list them. On the other hand, some things have different names all over the world.

I guess as long as you don't call it a left hand beck when it's a right hand beck you'll be ok.:rolleyes:

Evan
07-27-2011, 07:41 PM
http://ixian.ca/pics9/pickaxe.jpg

sasquatch
07-27-2011, 07:49 PM
Hmmm, maybe the word was mispelled and should have been "Pickass"??:rolleyes:

Carld
07-27-2011, 07:53 PM
:eek: alright you all lets keep it clean.:D ;)

John Stevenson
07-27-2011, 07:54 PM
It is not possible to have a rubber metal hose.

Seen loads on hydraulic lines :D

Black_Moons
07-27-2011, 07:55 PM
Lalzo: Stop being a hot air smith. :P

Really. You started it this time, you even buged him into posting photos, and now your whining that he called it one outta a dozen equaly correctish names for it. He even asked you nicely to stop talking to him.

I don't care what hes done in the past, Its whats being done today that matters. Stop being a pickass. :P

And just for the record, Iv been warned be george too!.. for uhh, I forget :) I think it was private however.
If you havent been warned by george your not trying hard enough. Its hardly a sign of a troll. just a sign you get outta hand sometimes, as most people do.

Btw gwilson: What kind of operations would be done on a tool like that? I love hearing about how blacksmiths had all kinds of cool uses for thier tools, But I don't actively search out blacksmith information so im really clueless about the subject.

Also, Could you maybe tell me what operations WOULD be done on that tool, and what ones just 'Could' be done, if they did'nt have the more perfered tool?

hitnmiss
07-27-2011, 08:00 PM
Give it a rest Lazlo, you look like a school yard bully.

gwilson
07-27-2011, 08:04 PM
Black Moons,I had really gotten tired of messing with photoshop,and didn't want to post pictures until I WAS bugged into it. Have you noticed that it has been some time since I posted pictures?

So,get bugged into it,and now get the work picked apart. Great.

I must say,somehow,with more help from Evan,the pictures are coming out o.k..

boslab
07-27-2011, 08:05 PM
you can call it a bloody sausage iron if you want, so long as both parties know what the hell thier talking about, could we have a rule that all things are describes as per the dictionary, third person passive with correct pronounciation indicators as required. what is this an english class? if so then thats an alien language as we well know.
the point is its a nice job, most couldent make one let alone know what THEY would like it called, as they tend to change thier minds as the wind does, the wind blowing out of the antirior end!

Black_Moons
07-27-2011, 08:12 PM
Black Moons,I had really gotten tired of messing with photoshop,and didn't want to post pictures until I WAS bugged into it. Have you noticed that it has been some time since I posted pictures?

So,get bugged into it,and now get the work picked apart. Great.

I must say,somehow,with more help from Evan,the pictures are coming out o.k..

Yea nevermind the hot air smiths, Great work man. Post whatever you make and feel proud of, or just wanna show, thats a big part of this forum.

There will allways be negative and posative comments on all work. Hopefuly more posative comments, but not allways. Its another another part of what makes this forum great is we can honestly say what we think about projects without having to be 100% politicaly correct, as long as we are mildly nice about it, I see no problem with pointing out flaws and such as well as greatness.

One of the BIG things iv found, is learn how to use your cameras 'white balance'/Lighting setting. It can be problematic when you have mixed lighting, but try and figure out where most of the light comes from, and set it to that, Human brains self compensate for lighting, but cameras can't, so orange incandesent lighting makes everything ORANGE. Blue fluroesent lighting makes everything blue. Sunlight makes things look 'right'..... if your camera is set to sunlight white balance!

Being under sunlight and set for incandesent will make everything blue
Being under incandesent and set for fluro will make everything HORRABLEY orange.
Etc.

You can compensate for it afterwards with photoshops white balance filter/effect if you had your camera set wrong, You likey should'nt try and use other types of filters/effects untill white balance is correct, or you'll mess it up trying to make it look good. Other filters will NOT do what white balance is designed to do.

Once white balance is correct, you can apply very small, subtle changes with other filters if you wanna get it looking a little better.

The "Auto" white balance setting on cameras I think relies on something being white in the scene. if nothing is true white, it will pick some other color and assume its white and adjust accordingly. I don't use auto anymore. It just screws up.

gwilson
07-27-2011, 08:15 PM
I may not have edited that picture in the computer. Can't recall.

Forestgnome
07-27-2011, 09:05 PM
http://ixian.ca/pics9/pickaxe.jpg

Now THAT'S a funny response!

gwilson
07-27-2011, 09:46 PM
That WAS funny,Evan.(Is there an echo in here?) Now,which ONE is the pickaxe? That's what we called them when I was young in Alaska,setting dynamite and pulling stumps. Used them an awful lot.

john hobdeclipe
07-27-2011, 10:06 PM
Dear GWILSON,

Please take a moment off from all of the bickering and nitpicking, and tell us how you made this, especially how you formed the cone shaped part.

Thanks.

gwilson
07-27-2011, 10:21 PM
I got the iron situated in the lathe,and turned the round beak. Getting it situated so the top edge of the beak was parallel was what the job was about.

Sorry,I didn't ask for the attacks. I think it will be resolved tomorrow.

If you read this thread,and the knife threads,I think you will see that I was never looking for trouble,but had it heaped onto me until I reached the breaking point.

john hobdeclipe
07-27-2011, 10:38 PM
I got the iron situated in the lathe,and turned the round beak. Getting it situated so the top edge of the beak was parallel was what the job was about.


Do you have any pix of how you did this?

gwilson
07-27-2011, 10:47 PM
No,I made it recently,but did not have a camera on hand. I have always been bad at taking pictures. Probably haven't made pictures of even 5%(or less) of what I did.

Peter.
07-27-2011, 11:00 PM
I hopeI never get really good at any of the machining work I do - I don't think I could stand the scrutiny :)

gwilson
07-27-2011, 11:16 PM
Only 1 person doing the scrutiny. don't be discouraged.

rohart
07-28-2011, 05:54 AM
So you're both going to be up before the beak, are you ?

[If this one doesn't cross the pond, ask one of my compatriots to explain it]

Lovely work. Is it snug enough in the hardy hole to be useful for fine work, or will it wobble. Laz's picture of such a tool in a hole in a bracket shows a locking taper driven in below the bracket.

J Tiers
07-28-2011, 08:32 AM
I like the pics...................BUT................

Maybe GWilson needs to have mercy on us here.........

We want some folks to still be here on the forum, and buying the mags.......

If this goes on too long, we'll have a dropoff in members, and a lot of machines for sale cheap, as people decide they'll never get to be any good at this stuff, and take up other hobbies instead.....

:D

gwilson
07-28-2011, 09:23 AM
Now that the harassment has ceased,I will not post so many things. I was bugged into proving myself in knife making and black smithing.

I don't mean to dominate the forum,and it has been quite a while since I posted any pictures. Months,I think. Hope it did not irritate anyone.

garagemark
07-28-2011, 09:35 AM
I am in good shape [in this case] because I didn't know the name, proper or not, of the item and did not see flaws in the workmanship... if there were any to see.

I am Uber fortunate in that I take this site, as well as all others, in stride. I am probably not as dumb as I appear to write, but even when I do see a dumb statement, or know the proper term, or see bad craftsmanship, I just click to the next thread. Isn't worth the effort most of the time.

If attacked, however, I do retaliate and defend (like saying I'm from Virginia ;) ). Isn't like you can come and whip my azz anyway. I'm hiding behind my screen. I'm invisible! :p

Mark

gary350
07-28-2011, 11:51 AM
Seen loads on hydraulic lines :D

I should have said. Not possible to have a rubber steel pipe.

gwilson
07-28-2011, 04:50 PM
Rohart. Didn't see your question. It jams quite snugly in the hardie hole. I just hit it on the belt grinder until it would go in. When it gets into the hole deep enough,solid as a rock. My hardie hole isn't what I'd call tapered in the usual sense,but it must have a tiny bit of taper.

Most Bick irons are jammed into a hole in a stump. I don't have room for another stump,so made it fit in the anvil.

J Tiers
07-28-2011, 11:35 PM
I don't mean to dominate the forum,and it has been quite a while since I posted any pictures. Months,I think. Hope it did not irritate anyone.

No fear......

"Irritate"? No way..... We like it.......

"Intimidate"? Well, there you may have something............ ;)

A.K. Boomer
07-29-2011, 12:07 AM
looks like its made to penetrate where the base of the scull ends and the spine begins

lethal ..me thinks ..like the knives

all the best.markj


Aboard - yer killin me! it was my exact same thoughts,
reminds me of a saying my Dad used to have ---- "better than a hit in the head with a dull axe" :D


I think it's high quality work esp. seeing as though he done it the ole fashioned way, but I either do not like the original design or I don't like his replica due to the fact that the two end points are way off from one another in their measurements from the length of the handle - to me this is critical, I think both stricking distances should be identical for when you switch or else a man could be "pickin" his nose with his elbow in the future (ok maybe a little drastic - but - Im just sayin)
You can see there was kinda an attempt at the way he ran the taper angle up on the right side but No Bwandanna cuz it still fell short.

That being said GW's talent is proven - and the fact that he's a total hillbilly when it comes to using a computer makes "some" of us feel a little better about themselves:o

Black_Moons
07-29-2011, 01:04 AM
Now that the harassment has ceased,I will not post so many things. I was bugged into proving myself in knife making and black smithing.

I don't mean to dominate the forum,and it has been quite a while since I posted any pictures. Months,I think. Hope it did not irritate anyone.

Irritate? never! it was wonderful.

My only requests are you start posting pictures more regularly! I would love to see more. And maybe give some information on how they where forged/ground, Little storys of things you tryed, accidents, successes, etc. Not everyone here know about forging (Myself included), So you could likey suprise a few of us with the techniques used to make diffrent shapes.

More on topic posts for all!

Work pictures are even better then tool gloats. Because we get to see what those tools finaly got used for!

gwilson
07-29-2011, 09:13 AM
Boomer:It must be the photo. The lengths of the "arms,beaks" are the same in real life.

A.K. Boomer
07-29-2011, 09:29 AM
Thanks - the photo is deceiving then - I really tried to look for that before posting, even held up a square to the ruler and the handle? nice to have them the same height, like to see some of the silver you hammered out with it.

gwilson
07-29-2011, 09:44 AM
If the camera is off to one side a little bit,you get a perspective view.Maybe next time,I could use a tall machinist's square to get the camera on center.:)

A.K. Boomer
07-29-2011, 10:00 AM
I was more curious about it than anything as I know it looks like you were angling your way up on that side but the pic doesn't show it going the full way,

Just chaulk it up to a "Woptical illusion" (part italian here)...:p

gwilson
07-29-2011, 10:23 AM
Boomer,I am not sure what you are saying.

And,I thought there was only 1 hillbilly on the forum!:)

lynnl
07-29-2011, 12:45 PM
George, if you seriously believe you're upsetting any significant portion of the membership here by posting your work and explaining the particulars (background, methodology, materials, tools, etc.) you are woefully mistaken.
There's always going to be one or two that tend to take issue, or offer some nit noy criticism.

It's always nice to see examples of nice work, and it makes it all the more interesting to learn as much as possible about just what went into it.

I think you at one point said you regretted that you had not taken many pictures along the way, during your career. Believe me, I do too!

I was thinking the other day how unfortunate it is that all the ultra-talented people like you, don't, or for some reason can't, publish a book late in their careers highlighting their work for the rest of the world to digest and enjoy.
That's especially so in your case, with all the varied items and processes you've used. I would certainly buy one.

Lynn

gwilson
07-29-2011, 01:01 PM
Lots of other people have urged me to do a book,too,lynnl. Thank you for your kind words.

I have taken pictures of my work in slide form. I used to do lectures and used them for those. They were taken with 400 speed film,so I'm not sure how good they will come out. I need to get around to sorting them out and getting them put onto a disc,to see if they are decent. Never been good at photography!

It is possible I might could do a book,but need to do the slides first,as much of my best work is on slides.