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aostling
07-30-2011, 11:23 PM
I have not yet upgraded my MacBook from Snow Leopard to Lion. There are reports of a few issues with SketchUp (but nothing major). There is also this article http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/29/lions-upgraded-robust-security-features/?ref=technology describing new security features.

I expect I will upgrade in the next day or so. Anybody done this already?

dp
07-30-2011, 11:52 PM
I've noticed a lot of compatibility problems being reported on the VMware Fusion forum that suggest some low-level changes have been made. If you have any special hardware (non-Apple) that has driver software I think I'd wait a bit.

I have a USB to serial port adapter, for example, and need it to work because that is the terminal connection for some of the Unix systems I have. Can't afford to experiment with it.

There is no longer Rosetta support so if you still have any PPC apps you've been nursing along they will quit. That includes Microsoft Office for Mac 2008. Office is native x86 but the installer is PPC.

And it is 64-bit only so if you have one of the older 32-bit Macs it won't work for you.

Since I'm waiting for it to come out on DVD I'm in no hurry anyway. Not that I expect it to come out on DVD ever, but I'm not signing up to the Mac Apple Store and become a field terminal to Steve Jobs' empire.

There is supposed to be a USB thumb drive version coming out later this year. If it is available from the brick and glitter stores I'll probably buy it, but with the MAS being the direction Apple is going I won't be staying with them much longer. If a MAS account is required for future OS updates I'll put my Macs on Craigs List.

aostling
07-31-2011, 01:08 AM
There is no longer Rosetta support so if you still have any PPC apps you've been nursing along they will quit. That includes Microsoft Office for Mac 2008. Office is native x86 but the installer is PPC.


Dennis,

I'm glad I asked. I'm still using Microsoft Office for Mac 2004, so I assume that would not work on Lion either.

I'll now decide if I should upgrade to Office for Mac 2011. It's rather expensive, but there is no attractive substitute for Word or Excel.

dp
07-31-2011, 01:40 AM
Dennis,

I'm glad I asked. I'm still using Microsoft Office for Mac 2004, so I assume that would not work on Lion either.

I'll now decide if I should upgrade to Office for Mac 2011. It's rather expensive, but there is no attractive substitute for Word or Excel.

Nope - you'll need to upgrade. If you're affiliated with any schools you may qualify for the educational discount.

Black_Moons
07-31-2011, 01:58 AM
I'll now decide if I should upgrade to Office for Mac 2011. It's rather expensive, but there is no attractive substitute for Word or Excel.

http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/

Never used it, but heard the odd person recommend it.. At least its free (Afaik?)

Gavin
07-31-2011, 02:16 AM
http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/

Never used it, but heard the odd person recommend it.. At least its free (Afaik?)

Both Open Office and Neo Office (which is a fork off the Open Office code base) will read and write MS Office compatible files and will replace MS Office. Both are free and stable.

dp
07-31-2011, 02:22 AM
http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/

Never used it, but heard the odd person recommend it.. At least its free (Afaik?)

That project kind of lost its rudder when Sun was bought by Oracle, and shortly after, Oracle gave the entire project to Apache, the web server people. It is considered a dead project by many without a big name behind it, and with competitors like Google and MS Office to compete with, I'm in the dead project category, too. And I used it for years and years.

It is still a solid favorite for dial-up account holders and many educational systems around the world who rely on Ubuntu Linux and other free Linux distributions.

Because of the proliferation of virtual machines I expect Microsoft will stop making a Mac version of Office, expecting instead users to install a Windows virtual machine on their Mac. MSFT gets two licensed products on your system that way.

aostling
07-31-2011, 02:24 AM
If you're affiliated with any schools you may qualify for the educational discount.

The academic version sells on eBay, much discounted: http://cgi.ebay.com/Microsoft-Office-Mac-2011-Standard-Brand-New-/190559104192?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5e352cc0. Can anybody in possession of this item install and use it?

dp
07-31-2011, 02:33 AM
The academic version sells on eBay, much discounted: http://cgi.ebay.com/Microsoft-Office-Mac-2011-Standard-Brand-New-/190559104192?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c5e352cc0. Can anybody in possession of this item install and use it?

My scam-O-matic beeper just went off. Check this page and see if they can tell you if that version is legal and licensed.

http://www.microsoft.com/education/en-us/buy/Pages/eligible.aspx

Blackadder
07-31-2011, 04:04 AM
I have not yet upgraded my MacBook from Snow Leopard to Lion. There are reports of a few issues with SketchUp (but nothing major). There is also this article http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/29/lions-upgraded-robust-security-features/?ref=technology describing new security features.

I expect I will upgrade in the next day or so. Anybody done this already?
Yes its Ok I have been running it for months DP thro to GM Its got a few bugs but hey for the UK price of 20 quid its a steal When you dl it do NOT run it as it self deletes , secondary click on the app and show contents drill down to find the .dmg file its the big un then use DU to restore it to a usb stick then you will have a physical copy to use if needed in the future

BTW I am a developer so I have legal access to the beta software I am running ver 10.7.2 at the moment

PS get plenty of ram 4 gig in the min IMHO I run 12 gig on a i7 2.93 ghz cpu

Stuart

macona
07-31-2011, 04:23 AM
I am running lion server.

Two things have broken for me. I use VNC through Vine Server and that is broken. The built in apple implementation of VNC has issues with some clients.

Optical Audio AC3/DTS is broken in Lion. It was just broken and fixed for snow leopard so there should be a fix here soon.

Thats about it. Runs faster than the snow leopard. The iOS style autocorrect works nice.

Whats the problem with the app store? It works fine. Same as iTunes. And just burn the disk image of the downloaded file and you have a lion dvd.

You will never see a DVD copy of Lion. Apple has made it clear they think optical drives are obsolete. I can't say I don't agree for the most part. I have had my Mac Mini Server for over a year and not once needed a cd or dvd drive.

Oh, and skip open office and go with Neooffice. Much better UI. Like so many open source software projects the UI sucks on open office.

mike os
07-31-2011, 05:16 AM
same old mac issues then......your shiny new mac will require this shiny new os & these shiny new apps...last years apps... forget it, you need these nice shiny new ones.....

aostling
07-31-2011, 05:50 AM
PS get plenty of ram 4 gig in the min IMHO I run 12 gig on a i7 2.93 ghz cpu

Stuart

I installed 4 GB RAM several days ago, and noticed a significant improvement with Lightroom.

Where is Tilcestune?

Blackadder
07-31-2011, 06:52 AM
google is your friend :-)


its the old name in the doomsday book for Ilkeston midway between Notts and Derby
http://www.ilkestonhistory.org.uk/LordsofManor.htm



sorry my bad dyslectic fingers again there should be a h in it oopps

dp
07-31-2011, 12:40 PM
I am running lion server.

Thats about it. Runs faster than the snow leopard. The iOS style autocorrect works nice.

Autocorrect drives me bats. It's one of the first things I turn off if I have to use Windows for any reason.



Whats the problem with the app store? It works fine. Same as iTunes. And just burn the disk image of the downloaded file and you have a lion dvd.

I dont' do cloud computing. Or play gatekeeper and sheep. Maybe I'm a control freak but I like the idea of going into a brick and glitter store and getting what I want without registering a credit card and signing a EULA I don't agree with. The various Apple stores are not yet integrated, so you have to register your CC with each site and sign agreements at each site - each agreement being subject to change without notice and which you pre-approve. There are a lot of sheeple out there that are happy with the simplified life this brings and that's fine, but I've never been one. And to be honest the closer I get to retirement the less I think I'll be interested in computers and would be happy to run a basic Linux workstation or laptop.


You will never see a DVD copy of Lion. Apple has made it clear they think optical drives are obsolete. I can't say I don't agree for the most part. I have had my Mac Mini Server for over a year and not once needed a cd or dvd drive.

With that decision they're already thinking for you, you know. I also have a Mac Mini Server and a RW DVD was the first addon I bought for it, and I've used it a lot. We do the recording and video mixing for my wife's choir and having DVD burning capability is not optional, regardless of what Apple thinks. I'm sure they'd love it if everyone bought into their burgeoning cloud but that is not going to happen. It's bad enough they already decide what you can and cannot do with iTunes and your iPod.

I recently bought a new Mac Book Pro with a 4-core 64-bit processor so I could upgrade to Lion (64-bit only) when it came out. My other MBP is 32-bit and Lion is not available for it. Had I known it would require joining the cloud I'd never have bought the new MBP as there is nothing wrong with the older one's functionality and performance. The second shoe dropped when VMware revealed the next version of Fusion, the virtualizing application, will also be 64-bit only. I don't need Lion, but I do need Fusion so I didn't initially feel too bad about buying the new MBP - then I found out that Fusion will be sold through the Apple store. Screw that. Then I discovered my favorite photo editing product, Pixelmator, will be sold only through the Apple store.

See where this is going? I am incrementally losing control of my computer to Big Apple if I play that game. I have been predicting for some time that the general purpose computer as introduced by the early IBM and variants will disappear and we'll all be running remote terminals dependent upon a for-fee mothership somewhere. The Mac Air is the first built-for-the-cloud computer. iPads and iPhones are the mini versions of that. So, we're there and its sad to see.

macona
07-31-2011, 03:48 PM
When i bought Lion, the first thing I have ever bought off the App Store, it just asked me for my apple id and password just like in iTunes, no additional EULA's. It just downloaded and I was done. If I can avoid going to the mall to an apple store all the better. And before the apple store what did you do? Very few local places carried a decent selection of mac software so you had to order it on line. So you were giving your CC# to one of a number of different companies.

The app store is just one of many places to get software and you know that. For a software developer it has a lot of advantages, no packaging, easy of updates, etc. Plus users can get software a lot cheaper than buying it elsewhere, just look at Aperture.

Are the other makers of virtualization software doing the same?

Its not cloud computing. Just because we download software does not mean it is cloud computing. If that was the case your cloud computing would have been in effect for years and years. Lots of companies have software that is available by download only.

dp
07-31-2011, 05:19 PM
What were the conditions to getting your Apple ID?

To reduce the loop time and end the hijacking of the OP's thread: http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/us/terms.html

Don't let the "iTunes" in the URL fool you - it's the Apple ID terms page.

macona
07-31-2011, 05:31 PM
The same as ordering though just about any online site.

dp
07-31-2011, 05:43 PM
The same as ordering though just about any online site.

I don't do that, either, if any condition of the sale goes beyond the McDonalds' model. I give them money, they give me a happy meal. End of the relationship.

Edit: So this is the part that keeps them out of my life:



TERMINATION

If you fail, or Apple suspects that you have failed, to comply with any of the provisions of this Agreement, Apple, at its sole discretion, without notice to you may: (i) terminate this Agreement and/or your Account, and you will remain liable for all amounts due under your Account up to and including the date of termination; and/or (ii) terminate the license to the software; and/or (iii) preclude access to the App and Book Services (or any part thereof).

Apple reserves the right to modify, suspend, or discontinue the App and Book Services (or any part or content thereof) at any time with or without notice to you, and Apple will not be liable to you or to any third party should it exercise such rights.

...

Notwithstanding any other provision of this Agreement, Apple and its principals reserve the right to change, suspend, remove, or disable access to any App and Book Products, content, or other materials comprising a part of the App and Book Services at any time without notice. In no event will Apple be liable for making these changes. Apple may also impose limits on the use of or access to certain features or portions of the App and Book Services, in any case and without notice or liability.

...

Apple reserves the right at any time to modify this Agreement and to impose new or additional terms or conditions on your use of the App and Book Services. Such modifications and additional terms and conditions will be effective immediately and incorporated into this Agreement. Your continued use of the App and Book Services will be deemed acceptance thereof.

...


And finally, the deal killer:



c. Termination. The license is effective until terminated by you or Licensor. Your rights under this license will terminate automatically without notice from the Licensor if you fail to comply with any term(s) of this license. Upon termination of the license, you shall cease all use of the Licensed Application and destroy all copies, full or partial, of the Licensed Application.


Think what that might mean to your business if Apple "suspects" you have violated the terms of agreement.

mototed
07-31-2011, 06:46 PM
It's hard to say,
Iv'e used a lot of operating systems, but not a guru of any of them. Been on Mac's for the last 15 years. My boss is still on Appleworks, Claris works or whatever that older office suite is. He just doesn't want to learn the new stuff. Complains all the time how slow it is. Yes, Lion is different, as I found out it changes how iWork's functions. After a little playing around, it was not a problem. You almost have to upgrade or you are left behind the times. I just bite the bullet so I can show the kids and grandkids that I'm a step ahead of them.
Just not much choice.
Stay where your at and become outdated.
Change operating systems and have the same thing happen.
Learn new stuff and live with it, no matter how backwards it is from the old.
Ted

beanbag
07-31-2011, 07:04 PM
Think what that might mean to your business if Apple "suspects" you have violated the terms of agreement.

If you can provide an example of something like this actually happening, I might care.

macona
08-01-2011, 12:01 AM
If you can provide an example of something like this actually happening, I might care.

I was going to say the same. There are a couple possibilities for this clause in the EULA. One is for malicious software like the Android Store has seen. Google used the kill switch to remotely disable these apps. The second is the osx86 crowd, people installing Mac OS on regular PCs. It seems from the chatter on InsanelyMac that there is some things with Lion thats going to make it difficult for them.

aostling
08-01-2011, 12:37 AM
My scam-O-matic beeper just went off. Check this page and see if they can tell you if that version is legal and licensed.

http://www.microsoft.com/education/en-us/buy/Pages/eligible.aspx

The eBay seller finally responded, and states that anybody can install and use the unopened package of Office for Mac 2011. He has good feedback, and I expect this is true.

Microsoft has not responded to my query.

But I've found some online reviews at Amazon indicating that Office for Mac 2011 is buggy, with crashes in Word and Excel. The 2008 version may be more stable, and I can install that on my Snow Leopard machine before upgrading it to Lion.

[edit] Reading more Amazon reviews it appears the 2008 version is just as bad.

dp
08-01-2011, 01:04 AM
I was going to say the same. There are a couple possibilities for this clause in the EULA. One is for malicious software like the Android Store has seen. Google used the kill switch to remotely disable these apps. The second is the osx86 crowd, people installing Mac OS on regular PCs. It seems from the chatter on InsanelyMac that there is some things with Lion thats going to make it difficult for them.


Heh - I was going to ask him to prove it can't happen but didn't want to get into an EULA pi$$ing contest.

One cool thing about Lion is that Apple finally allows you to virtualize it so long as the hardware is an Apple product and the host OS is Lion. That seems to go without saying as they are vehement about not running it on anything else and have never allowed it on anything else.

dp
08-01-2011, 01:16 AM
The eBay seller finally responded, and states that anybody can install and use the unopened package of Office for Mac 2011. He has good feedback, and I expect this is true.

Microsoft has not responded to my query.

But I've found some online reviews at Amazon indicating that Office for Mac 2011 is buggy, with crashes in Word and Excel. The 2008 version may be more stable, and I can install that on my Snow Leopard machine before upgrading it to Lion.

[edit] Reading more Amazon reviews it appears the 2008 version is just as bad.

That would be a pretty good deal then. I paid $130 for 2008 which is pretty close to the employee price, so that is a deep discount. It isn't uncommon for the dot com employees in the Bellevue/Redmond area (I work for one) to get deep discounts for MSFT products.

2008 was pretty buggy at first, too. After several updates it has settled down, but I'm not using it as much as I was. I was building graphs of systems performance and with 10s of thousands of records it was too slow to create charts and labor intensive. I still use it to read email attachments but use awk, sed, and grep to create .csv files to distribute raw data and gnuplot to create the charts. Just seems to go faster because all the source data is Unix systems in common Unix text format. And the Mac, being Unix, has all the tools built in except gnuplot and that was an easy build.

Anyway - sounds like you've got the big show stopper under control.

precisionmetal
08-01-2011, 04:09 AM
Been running Lion for a bit on an i7 iMac.

It has some glitches... but no deal breakers, and I'd guess we'll see 10.7.1 pretty quickly.

The highlights: Mission Control (and how it handles Spaces), Versions, and the new gestures (using a touchpad exclusively for almost a year now).

Some bummers (for now): direct SMB support has been dropped (though available in Lion Server). Some of the gesture configuration should be more versatile... often only 2 options for a given gesture, when I might want to use something different. There's a bug that causes Desktop icons to disappear if you just "bump" a Space. I've noticed that there must now be a memory leak or something between Lion and VMWare Fusion. Have had some issues there (I suspect VMWare will be on top of this as they have a pretty big customer base on Macs).

I did an upgrade on my iMac, but think I might clone the drive, wipe it, and do a clean install of Lion and see if any of my issues disappear.

Overall, it's already pretty good, and will get better very quickly, I'm sure.

My "opinion" is that Apple should be careful about trying too hard to make the desktop/laptop OS too much like IOS. Different tools for different jobs.

PM

macona
08-01-2011, 01:04 PM
Here is how to install Samba 3.0 on Lion:

http://www.johnlarge.co.uk/2011/07/19/osx-lion-samba-smb-shares-broken-xbmc-not-working/

aostling
08-02-2011, 12:21 PM
That would be a pretty good deal then. I paid $130 for 2008 which is pretty close to the employee price, so that is a deep discount.

Microsoft finally responded to my query, about installing the Academic version of Office for Mac, as follows:


Thank you for contacting Microsoft. From my role on Inside Sales, our role entails matching prospective customers with the best representatives to fit their project needs. For the Academic version of Office you must be either a teacher or a student. Once you upload the software to your computer you will be prompted to provide proof of academic status before being able to use the software.

I don't know if this is a binding requirement for installation, but I guess I will avoid bidding on the Academic version, and avoid the hassle.