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View Full Version : Older Hammond tool grinder, worth buying?



T.Hoffman
08-01-2011, 11:17 PM
I have no grinder other than a simple two-wheel bench grinder. Thought it would be nice to have something better for expanding my capabilities in the future.

But I'm a complete newb when it comes to tool grinders. I ran across this Hammond on CL, and wondering if anyone here has tinkered with such a unit. Here's some pics:

http://images.craigslist.org/3k43pa3l65V65O05U2b811ee7767fc8aa1271.jpg

http://images.craigslist.org/3ma3pd3l95O65T05R3b81c4097a8777681f70.jpg

http://images.craigslist.org/3m53oc3p05Z25P15X3b81ed5661b431f01ed4.jpg

http://images.craigslist.org/3kf3pe3o25Y15X55S5b819f4b65e934e81faf.jpg

Looks like quite a project, but if the price is right would this be something I should be considering?

T.Hoffman
08-02-2011, 12:16 AM
After doing some more digging around the internet, it looks like this is Hammond CB-77B model.

This is from a different auction (same model) with cracked mount, but provides much better pictures to see more details of the machine:

http://img.orbitbid.com/2011/03/01/P2250206.JPG

http://img.orbitbid.com/2011/03/01/P2250207.JPG

http://img.orbitbid.com/2011/03/01/P2250208.JPG

http://img.orbitbid.com/2011/03/01/P2250210.JPG

doctor demo
08-02-2011, 12:34 AM
It all depends how much the guy wants for it , and how bad you want it.
I'd probably go for it but....er ah... hello my name is Steve, and I'm a tool-a-holic.

Steve

T.Hoffman
08-02-2011, 01:07 AM
he's asking $275 in the ad.

But I haven't talked to the seller yet to find out how functual it is, or if anything is wrong with it.

How bad do I want it? Well, I've never had (or used) something like this before, so I'm not sure how much I would use it. Right now I don't even have the right grinding wheel to do lathe bits.

JoeFin
08-02-2011, 01:17 AM
For the money - sounds like a good investment

I don't think it would "expend capabilities" as much as a surface grinder but then again you would probably have to pay 3 or 4 times as much to get a descent surface grinder

doctor demo
08-02-2011, 02:00 AM
For the money - sounds like a good investment

I don't think it would "expend capabilities" as much as a surface grinder but then again you would probably have to pay 3 or 4 times as much to get a descent surface grinder

If there isn't any broken iron, I'd buy it for that money.
Heck, I'd even give Joefin 275 bucks for that rust-bucket Cincinnati T&C Grinder He's using for a dust collector:p .

Steve

DR
08-02-2011, 07:56 AM
What about wheels? How will you mount the more common small cup wheels used in tool grinding? This grinder uses an odd ball type. You won't be able to easily change to a diamond or CBN. For that reason alone I'd pass on it.

How about grinding fixture mounting, like an air bearing fixture? No T-slot mounting surface.

What's the wheel rpm? Can the rpm be changed to utilize smaller diameter wheels?

All of the above problems might be fixable with some machining of adapters,etc, but it still won't be a conventional tool grinding machine.

Rosco-P
08-02-2011, 09:37 AM
What's odd-ball about plate mounted wheels? They are available in Sc and Al oxide. As is, it would be more useful than the typical chinee copy of a carbide tool grinder. With a little machine work you could mount a cup wheel on the spindle and a VFD could give you a slightly increased top speed. For $275, I'd label it as a bargain and it takes up no bench space.

T.Hoffman
08-02-2011, 09:47 AM
I don't think it would "expend capabilities" as much as a surface grinder but then again you would probably have to pay 3 or 4 times as much to get a descent surface grinder

yes, that is on the list for the future. Would love to have a little surface grinder to tinker with.


What about wheels? How will you mount the more common small cup wheels used in tool grinding? This grinder uses an odd ball type. You won't be able to easily change to a diamond or CBN. For that reason alone I'd pass on it.

All of the above problems might be fixable with some machining of adapters,etc, but it still won't be a conventional tool grinding machine.

Great points all around, just the reason I posted this thread. Thanks for the input, exactly what I was looking for.

I think I am going to pass for now on something like this and try to find a "normal" tool grinder.

RobbieKnobbie
08-02-2011, 10:09 AM
It looks to me like one of those lovely pieces of industrial iron tha you'll spend hundreds of hours restoring and fixing and getting just so... and then use two, maybe three times over the course of a decade.

But then, you also get the daily satisfaction of having it in your shop.

Forrest Addy
08-02-2011, 10:12 AM
That's a pretty rare find. It sold for the price of a turret mill in its day. Those old Hammond grinders were the top of the line especially made for grinding lathe, planer and shaper tools not milling cutters. It's bullet proof and rugged made for 16/5 service for 30 years.

If you have the room for it and maybe the need that grinder will take good care of you. And it will probably teach you stuff too. Will it do a noob with limited need any good? Probably, if he's a workaholic. It may just sit there a lot. OTH its a universal grinder. If you don't mind the fiddling it will grind small items parallel and square - a gunsmith's dream. It will grind every kind of fancy angle a lot more conveniently that a surface grinder within its envelope. If I was 30 again and established in my own shop I'd snap it up it in a heartbeat. If you buy both at a discount and clean them up getting all parts working properly and set them up for running on single phese, you may be able to sell the surplus one for enough to make the one you keep free. Depends on your market and your salesmanship.

You have a nice wide tilting platen you can slide a BXA tool holder around on and on the other end an X. Y, Z slide with a universal vise. You can accurately grind any single point tool you wish and grind in fancy chip breakers and other details.

The wheels will not be cheap and may be hard to find. Save the plates off the old wheels and maybe they can be recycled come time to get some new made. Looks like you have many miles left on the existing wheels. If they are aluminum oxide you're good to go. Aluminum oxide will be white, pink, or gray. Silicon carbide (NOT "silicone") may be green or sparkley black.

You will need wheel dressing equipment. I suggest a small diamond cluster and mount it in a keyed block that fits the tilting platen. That way you can dress the wheel straight across. The block will also fit the universal vise on the other end. Star dressers don't work very well for precision off-hand and tool grinding.

It will have a three phase motor on it but in these days of $139 VFD's you're a week end of tinkering away from a running grinder.

Be sure to capture all the wheels you can for this machine.

Buy it, clean it up, and use it for a while. Someone may come along and have to have it, then you can parlay your investment into cash or goodies.

Rosco-P
08-02-2011, 10:27 AM
[QUOTE=RobbieKnobbie]It looks to me like one of those lovely pieces of industrial iron tha you'll spend hundreds of hours restoring and fixing and getting just so... and then use two, maybe three times over the course of a decade.
QUOTE]

I think the grinder will see more frequent service grinding lathe bits than a small shaper ever will see producing parts in a home shop.

Some wheels: http://kbctools.com/usa/Navigation/NavPDF.cfm?PDFPage=538

T.Hoffman
08-02-2011, 11:25 AM
Wow- more great info-thanks!


If you buy both at a discount and clean them up getting all parts working properly....

I should have made this more clear- the two machines pictured are not being sold at the same place. I just posted the second set of photos I found on the net for more clarification of the model and features. The first set of photos is the machine that is being sold in my area, I just had a hard time making out what was all on there.

I'm not even sure if there are wheels currently on the first machine. Still haven't heard back from the seller. From the other info I found on the net about this model, seems like it is 440v operation.

Rosco-P
08-02-2011, 11:32 AM
From the other info I found on the net about this model, seems like it is 440v operation.

That hurdle can be crossed with a step-up transformer. Being three phase, it won't require a large transformer.

JoeFin
08-02-2011, 11:40 AM
seems like it is 440v operation.

More likely a single multi-voltage motor that can be easily changed to 208

My T&C was factory configured at 440v and it took all of 2-3 hours to rewire the motor and reconfigure the controls to 208v

Scottike
08-02-2011, 11:43 AM
Or the motor it has now may be 220/440 and just needs to be rewired to run on 220 3ph.

DR
08-02-2011, 11:47 AM
What's odd-ball about plate mounted wheels? They are available in Sc and Al oxide. As is, it would be more useful than the typical chinee copy of a carbide tool grinder. With a little machine work you could mount a cup wheel on the spindle and a VFD could give you a slightly increased top speed. For $275, I'd label it as a bargain and it takes up no bench space.


Nothing odd ball about plate mounted wheels in general, except these appear much larger than the ones you linked to in the KBC catalog. To replace these they'd need to be custom made (surprisingly it's not super expensive, might be $400+ per). Yes, as I said you could make an adapter for cup wheels, then you could make the taper mounted hubs for accurate, quick wheel changes with minimal dressing. But, why bother, at $275 the price isn't that good.

This is an old grinder from back in the day when shops used large tooling in huge lathes and planers. That's not the case any longer with insert tooling.

Rosco-P
08-02-2011, 12:12 PM
This Fleabay link states 6" plate mounted wheels: http://cgi.ebay.com/Hammond-tool-grinder-/170358326473?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0

Since it's a double ended grinder, with the table removed on the other side, this could be your "go to" grinder for off-hand grinding as well. I'd buy it if was available in my area and I didn't already have a similar grinder. HSS toolbits still have their place in a job shop. Looks like you could also regrind wood planer and jointer blades (carbide and steel) with the setup on this machine. Possibly a tidy side income from woodworking shops.