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toolmaker76
08-05-2011, 04:50 PM
Got the lathe home today, transporting it cost more than the lathe itself!

I already had the Hitachi SJ300 inverter drive that came with it, was pleased to finally get to the motor, its a Black Max 7.5hp inverter motor, and it has a gearbox adaption that has been beautifully done-

Except that when I looked at the gearbox, it is missing at least one gear. There is nothing for the splined shaft to mount into, and the linkage for the interior of the gearbox is gone also. Screws were loose on the gearbox, and it looks as if it were taken apart to fit the shaft- and the previous owner died before getting back to it.

Am I sunk on the reduction gear? I am thinking that the motor inverter combo could probably drive the lathe directly, but I had really hoped to have a usable back gear.

The rest of the lathe seems to be in great shape.

Michael Edwards
08-05-2011, 05:19 PM
Come on, 175 posts... you know the rule by now. No pics = didn't happen. :D


ME

Michael Hall
08-05-2011, 05:26 PM
The 10EE had a couple of different gear reduction boxes. Some had a keyed input and others had a spline. I would think that Black Max probably has a 1 3/8" shaft, is that right? If so, one option is to bore the splines on the input gear and key it to fit the motor.

Photos would give a better idea as to your options.

Michael

toolmaker76
08-05-2011, 06:13 PM
Yeah, I definitely need to figure this picture thing out. I owe some pics from awhile back as well.....

The splined shaft has been fitted beautifully to the motor, the back gear box has also been fitted beautifully- but you open up the back gear box, there is no transition gear for the splined shaft to go into. The other gears are there, but nothing to transition power from the splined shaft to the pulleys.

I figure that gear was used to fit everything up to that point, and got laid on another machine before the owner passed away- and some of the stuff sold wound up going to scrappers. I know another fellow who bought a couple of nearby machines, if it happened to be there I may be able to recover it, but it may be like a needle in a haystack.

I figure that my drive may work without the back gear as is, I just would prefer to use it, especially since everything up to this point looks to be top notch work.

Dr Stan
08-05-2011, 06:28 PM
If you are unable to locate the gear there are some other 10EE owners who belong to the forum who could give you the specs. You could then buy the blank from Boston Gear. This is what I did for a couple of gears in the feed unit of my Fray mill since I did not have the means to cut a gear until I had the Fray up & running.

rockcombo
08-06-2011, 01:45 AM
here are a couple of photos from mine , I had the motor out for a rebuild (1978 stock drive ) last winter and figured while I had it apart might as well check over the backgear , it was in good shape :) .


http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac68/rockcombo/IMG_2073.jpg

http://i886.photobucket.com/albums/ac68/rockcombo/IMG_2074.jpg

Brice

toolmaker76
08-06-2011, 02:30 AM
Brice, those pictures are worth about 100,000 words! Thanks! In the top picture, the gear on the left (bottom gear when its upright) is the one I am missing. I have the splined shaft for it, appears that I have the rest of the gear box, but I don't have that one.

It looks like the previous owner made a new shifter for it, but I see that it has TWO shifters, plus a shaft that goes through. Just seeing a photo of it helps tremendously. I suppose it would not be too much of a stretch to fabricate that stuff here, although the internal spline might be a bit of a trick.

Supposedly the Black Max motor keeps a lot of torque down to 0 rpm, so I am wondering if I would even need the gear reduction.

form_change
08-06-2011, 06:14 AM
I don't have a Monarch so can't comment specifically, but I would try and get the back gear in there if you could. One reason is it is not recommended to run a motor on a VFD under around 2/3 of it's normal frequency as without a separate fan the motor can over heat.
The other reason is a variation on Murphy's law. If it's not there, there will be a job that it is essential for. If it is repaired, that job will never come along. (I also feel more comfortable driving through gears rather relying on electrons knowing they have to slow down but push harder).

Michael

Your Old Dog
08-06-2011, 08:03 AM
I know it's just a Rumor at this point but Rumor has it that toolmaker got a new lathe? Anyone seen any pictures of it yet? :D

toolmaker76
08-06-2011, 11:12 AM
As a child of the 1960's, visions of 2011 would have included flying cars and jetpaks- not really figuring out how to post photos! But here goes......

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd410/toolmaker76/monarchlathe001.jpg

This is a picture of the lathe- covers are removed, also has an Accurite DRO that was removed for transport.

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd410/toolmaker76/monarchlathe002.jpg

End view of the lathe- pretty much everything has been gutted, although a bit of the electronics remain on the backside. I am assuming you could program the vfd to use the original controls, I'll probably opt to control it with the vfd, at least for now.

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd410/toolmaker76/monarchlathe003.jpg

Picture of the Black Max 7.5 motor, along with the splined shaft/ adaptor.

http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd410/toolmaker76/monarchlathe004.jpg

Picture of the open gearbox in question- the drive gear is missing, along with the assembly that shifts the gears. The other gears as well as the top shift gear are there.

Hope this lends some creedence to some of the rumors (speaking of the 60's- Creedence)!

toolmaker76
08-06-2011, 11:16 AM
http://i1218.photobucket.com/albums/dd410/toolmaker76/monarchlathe003.jpg

Another try with the motor- previous post just had a red "X"!

Dr Stan
08-06-2011, 11:35 AM
Toolmaker,

I'm green with envy. :D

As to making the internal splines here are a couple of suggestions. If you have access to either a horizontal or vertical shaper you could mount a rotary table or index head an cut the splines. another tactic would be to mount the RT on a lathe and use the carriage as a shaper.

The easiest would be to have the internal spline cut with a wire EDM. This is what I'd recommend.

Have fun with the 10EE.

Stan

Michael Hall
08-06-2011, 01:50 PM
I can not tell from the photos, does that Black Max have the optional encoder installed?

Michael

beckley23
08-06-2011, 04:39 PM
You do not need an internally splined gear like shown in "Rockcombo"'s post. Your gear will have dog clutch teeth to mate with the output gear, for direct drive, as evidenced in the pictue you posted of the output gear.
The gearbox will be either a 5:1, or a 6:1 reduction, depending on when the lathe was made. IIRC, there are 2 different DP's used in the gearbox, it's a matter of center distance and total reduction requirements.
I recommend that you post on the Monarch forum of PM. There are quite a few very knowledgeable people there, that don't post here. Who knows, somebody may have the gear you're looking for.
Harry

toolmaker76
08-06-2011, 05:50 PM
Michael, there is no paperwork with any of this stuff, do you know how I could tell if it had the encoder? I assumed not because that is optional, and the box on the side contains only wires.

Harry, I may just do that- I lurk on that site quite a bit, might as well join it. I saw where someone there made a gear (might have been you). My dad had a combine that went down for several days delaying a harvest of several thousand dollars- for a 25 cent o-ring! This kind of feels like that- so close yet so far!

toolmaker76
08-06-2011, 05:51 PM
I had even wondered if that would be something that Monarch still carries!

beckley23
08-06-2011, 05:58 PM
Probably, but you want to be sitting down when you hear the price.
Harry

Michael Hall
08-06-2011, 07:31 PM
Michael, there is no paperwork with any of this stuff, do you know how I could tell if it had the encoder? I assumed not because that is optional, and the box on the side contains only wires.

If you can get a photo of the back end of the motor we should be able to tell, also there should be a cover plate back there. Does the SJ300 have the optional encoder card if it does you will have one nice setup even if it doesn't you will have one nice setup. That motor should be TENV which means you won't have the fan noise.

toolmaker76
08-06-2011, 09:59 PM
On the back of the motor there is a cover, take the cover off and there is nothing but a shaft, nothing else, no electronics, etc.

There are a couple of card slots in the SJ300, but they are blank. I am assuming that neither has the optional encoder- which is surprising, as the fellow seems to have done everything else above and beyond!

I am thinking the encoder tells the inverter what the motor speed is? I am wondering how much of an advantage that would be? Motor and inverter are still available, so I am assuming that I could still get an encoder/ reader. Seems like I am going to have to wait a bit to solve the gear problem.

Hal
08-07-2011, 12:03 AM
Toolmaker

You might give Monarch a call, they sell some used parts. They might have what your looking for. It never hurts to ask. I've bought a few things from them and have had them trouble shoot some electrical problems that I sent them.
Also like Harry said check over on the PM forum. Its the best spot for Monarch info and some of the guys have several parts.

Hal