PDA

View Full Version : OT: Windows 7



Paul Alciatore
08-09-2011, 01:07 AM
I have used and even programmed computers since the 60s. Can you say
Fortran? But Windows 7 has me at a standstill. I have a new laptop with this new OS and it is a puzzlement. I seem to be set up as a User called "pc". And I have successfully copied my files to that user's area. But I need another user area for my wife. I need to find out how things work under Win 7.

Does anybody know of a good explanation of how things are organized in Win 7? How the hard drive is actually, REALLY organized. And most of all, how do I gain access to the areas of the hard drive that I appear to be locked out of. The "pc" user appears to be the same as the old Administrator, but there are many areas that I have no access to. Is there some knd of super administrator or what? And yes, I really DO want to access all areas of my own computer, not just the ones the gods at Microsoft want to allow.

I am not asking for the answers here, just a referenct to where I can find one.

Evan
08-09-2011, 02:45 AM
Ugh. I have been struggling with that for the last several weeks. I would like to be able to completely turn off the security system and permissions. So far I haven't found a way to do that and I don't think it is possible. Or, even if possible it will probably screw up the system badly.

One problem that comes up is that you may have insufficient permission levels even though you are an administrator. The administrator is a unique identity and even if you have administrator level permissions you aren't the administrator.

The apparent file structure is actually a maze of shortcuts (links) to the actual files and folders. It seems that you may not have permission to follow some shortcuts to some folders but if you find the actual folder that you own you can access it. In that case you need to take ownership of the link in question. It can be done from the permissions settings that you bring up in the properties for any particular item.

Much easier is a little script that adds "Take ownership" to the right click context menu. Download it here:

http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/add-take-ownership-to-explorer-right-click-menu-in-vista/

Be careful with this script. If you take ownership of system files it can cause problems. Also, if you take ownership to a directory with a lot of files in it it can take a long time to finish setting all the permission flags on all the sub directories and files. The program runs in a DOS box and if it has a lot to do it may seem to stall. It hasn't. Just wait for it and it will eventually finish.

Another problem that may occur is that a particular program may not have the necessary permission level to alter certain system settings or write to certain areas. In that case, invoke the program by right clicking on the executable (or link) and select "Run as administrator".

There is much more but those items will make life easier.

I forgot to mention that you must have a password set to gain full permission levels. If you logon without a password you will be restricted regardless of your status otherwise. You also need to go to the User Accounts in control panel and set a password for the administrator account. While there you can also set up an account for your wife, also with a password. Make sure you set passwords before taking ownership of anything. Bleh.

macona
08-09-2011, 03:26 AM
Maybe set up two user accounts, one for yourself and one for the wife, neither having passwords. Then you can at least switch between the two and access a common shared drive.

I can ask the IT guys at work, but I doubt they would know. We are a nearly 100% mac company.

John Stevenson
08-09-2011, 05:09 AM
I am having similar complaints in fact I posted on it a while ago in a thread called XP or W7, or similar.

I have now found out how to address some of my problems. This machine has been installed from a Partner license in 64 bit mode, it's the 64 bit that's causing problems in that three of my main programs won't run on it.
They can be run using an XP Virtual server available from Microsoft but it's a long winded job.

My laptop, also on W7 doesn't suffer from this but its been installed as 32 bit and that's the difference.

At the moment the only 64 bit program running on this machine is Office 2011 which has the 'new' menu's and for anyone brought up on the old menu's it's horrible. I can understand progress but why change a menu structure that millions know ?

Anyway for this machine to run as I would like it needs a complete reinstall to 32 bit as you can't downgrade or install a copy of XP and to be honest will all this permissions etc I'm seriously thinking of going back to XP.

Evan
08-09-2011, 08:41 AM
Yeah, I should have pointed out that my comments relate to Win 7 Pro 64 bit. It strictly enforces permission levels at all levels.

John, what programs do you have that won't run? So far I haven't found anything that won't run except for 16 bit programs.

BigBoy1
08-09-2011, 08:42 AM
My new computer came with Windows 7. I guess Microsoft needs to completely change the operating system every few years so people will be forced to spend money buying all of the "things" needed to make it work.

I was in our local discount book store and discovered a book by Jim Boyce called, "Windows 7 Bible." The original price was $40 but they had it on discount sale table for $5. It was a brand new book and in it's more than 1200 pages, one should be able to get an answer to their question. I have found it helpful so far.

rohart
08-09-2011, 09:16 AM
Windows is, and always has been, written for large companies. The nod from the head of IT in a large company can get 100,000 new licences bought. These guys meet with each other at expensive conferences, attended by senior MS guys, and they agree on new security requirements. MS jumps to the tune.

Sure, maybe more copies are sold to individual users, but we are not unionised. If there was a global union of individual users, or even home small network users, and we actually agreed not to buy the stuff till a more simple OS was designed, we would have power. It won't happen. The nearest you can get to it is the Linux implementations.

I run W2K on my static machines and XP on my laptops. I hope these machines will last till I'm 6ft under, so I don't have to convert the self written software I use every day over to 64 bit - editing and imaging stuff.

The speed of modern machinery is phenomenal, compared with the old DOS days, or even the early Windows days. We just don't notice it, because there is so much overhead for the machines to do nowadays. And apart from some fast graphics - for games and videos - home users get zero benefit from the modern high speed machines.

Fast browsing is due to better comms - modems, routers and gateway hardware - not your machine. Good video is due to faster video cards, little to do with bus speeds. Few of us even need the benefits of faster drives, unless we're copying thousands of images of video.

What I'm saying is that most of use could happily get on with year 2K hardware and software, with better graphics speeds, comms and interconnectivity. And MS and the big boys know this very well. But they can't see how they can package up what we would really like and make a profit out of it.

John Stevenson
08-09-2011, 09:37 AM
John, what programs do you have that won't run? So far I haven't found anything that won't run except for 16 bit programs.
Evan, two actually, Dolphin will run but requires to be run as admin and put in passwords every time, in 32 bit it doesn't need passwords.

The two giving problems are Fastcad V6.15 and Quickbooks 2000.

Fastcad 6.51, latest of the 6.xx series will run but I have a load of macros in 6.15 that won't run in 6.51. They want you to upgrade to 7.0 which I have done but dropped it as even less macros run in that one.
Like a lot of software programs they have added all new bells and whistles but have broken many of the parts others want. I am not the only one with this problem as they have had to carry on with V6 support [ hence the 'new' 6.51 ] whilst complaining that no one is buying v7.

I like it and being used to it I'm very quick and wouldn't like to change to another program but to be honest 2D CAD as a marketable program is dead, there is just too much free 2D stuff out there and good ones at that.

Quickbooks is a very old program and really need dumping but I have 18 months to go before I close this company down and if i can keep it running then that will suit me.

lazlo
08-09-2011, 11:11 AM
And most of all, how do I gain access to the areas of the hard drive that I appear to be locked out of. The "pc" user appears to be the same as the old Administrator, but there are many areas that I have no access to. Is there some knd of super administrator or what?

You have two things going on: Windows user accounts and "User Account Control".

In the Unix security model, you have user accounts and administrator accounts. You set up all your OS features as administrator, and do all your work as a user so you don't inadvertently screw up the install.

Vista/Win7 intends that you configure it the same way: you create an administrator account, install all your software, and then log out, and log back in with a user account with limited access to the Windows system directories. That way, if you get a virus, or a trojan, or botch a software install, you can only screw-up the local user setup, and not the OS.

I would leave the "PC" account as the administrator, and create two "User" accounts, one for yourself and one for your Wife. Install all your software and configure the OS and networking as the administrator, but log in as "Paul" for your daily tasks. Your wife would log-in as "SWMBO". If you don't want to type passwords each time you switch users (Windows->Shutdown->Switch User), just leave them without passwords. The worst that a hacker or malware can do is schwack that user profile, and not the OS install.

As far as not being able to access some of the Windows system files, Microsoft has a very annoying feature called "User Account Control." I don't blame them for adding this -- they assume (correctly) that most people won't set up the user accounts correctly, and will log in as the administrator. So by default they have User Account Control turned on, so that if you touch any of the critical system files, you have to re-enter the administrator password.

But if you correctly set up the user accounts, it's irritating. You can turn it off in:

Windows->Control Panel->User Accounts and Family Safety->User Accounts->Change User Account Control Settings

Don't turn off User Account Control if you're going to run as administrator!


Here's a good web page with an overview of Windows 7 user accounts:

http://www.unixwiz.net/techtips/win7-limited-user.html

ckelloug
08-09-2011, 11:17 AM
UAC is easy enough to neuter by googling for windows 7 turn off UAC. First result for me was http://www.mydigitallife.info/how-to-disable-and-turn-off-uac-in-windows-7/