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Mcgyver
08-16-2011, 10:32 AM
soliciting ideas on dial bore gauge settig devices.

I have zero interest in collecting rings, you need a ton of them and i want a solution that works for every size and don't want to troll ebay for months to finish a project

So, have any of you seen or made a setting device using gauge blocks? Other than accurately made and it probably should be hardened, the challenge is making the design work for the different size and spacing of the 'feet'. Those familiar will know there are different gauges for different ranges of hole size and they each have differently spaced feet used to keep the measuring axis a diameter of the bore (through the centre).

My idea is some match step blocks for the feet to rest on, hardened and ground, and a method the sandwich the gauge blocks between two precision made parallels. Basically you load the stack of blocks in, adjust the movable jaw (parallel) to meet the blocks. The two jaws are precisions parallels and extend to outside dimension created by the blocks - creates an inside dimension adjacent to the blocks to set the bore gauge in. There are perfectly placed steps on either side of this inside dimension space for the feet to rest on so, like in the bore, the measurement is taken perpendicular to the feet

Other ideas? no point in reinventing the wheel

lazlo
08-16-2011, 10:47 AM
So, have any of you seen or made a setting device using gauge blocks?

"Gauge setting block". Mine came in a gauge block accessory kit. It's a square sleeve with a ground reference on one end, and a slide block for the gauge blocks on the other. You insert your stack of gauge blocks, snug it up, and you have your reference.

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Brown-Sharpe-Model-7584-Setting-Gage-/13/!BSvDZdg!2k~$(KGrHgoOKiQEjlLmVz3(BKEtmuZTFw~~_12.J PG

An even easier way is to use a Cadillac height gauge.

Forrest Addy
08-16-2011, 10:54 AM
It's already been thunk up. An essential item to have with a set of gage blocks is an Accessory kit. This includes a base (but not always) and various kinds of jaws and some clamps much like you describe. Wring up the stack, add the jaws and clamp it in the thingy. Then set your gage leaving the stack set until you are done so you have a check reference.

You have to be careful with heat and making sure you minimize the dial setting etc. Here's a link to a how-to:

http://www.mahr.com/scripts/relocateFile.php?ContentID=11296&NodeID=13544&FileID=9363&ContentDataID=32758&save=0

There's a few kits on eBay. Note the Mitutoyo appears to be new in the original packaging:

http://business.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=gage+block+accessor*&_sacat=12576&_odkw=gage+accessor*&_osacat=12576&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313

If you get a kit try for one having the base and at least one jaw as shown in the Mahr document.

Hint, Most of the bores and diameters I do that require close gaging are for bearings. I got an inch set of Jo blocks. Had I got Metric I could grab one block insteads of assembling a stack on the inch ones.

It's said you should dismantle the stack at the end of the day because the blocks may bond to each other. Never seen that happen in all my days but it makes an interesting topic for BS.

JCHannum
08-16-2011, 10:58 AM
This one uses micrometer head for fine adjustment. As an added benefit, it is made of billet steel.

http://www.goodson.com/store/template/product_detail.php?IID=7449

This one is on sale;

http://www.westportcorp.com/gages/BoreGagesProductPage.asp?ItemNum=53-646-000

lazlo
08-16-2011, 10:59 AM
This one uses micrometer head for fine adjustment. As an added benefit, it is made of billet steel.

http://www.goodson.com/store/template/product_detail.php?IID=7449

Heh - $470. You could make that in ~ 30 minutes.

But hey, it comes with a 1 thou micrometer head! :)

Mcgyver
08-16-2011, 11:21 AM
thanks for the ideas

I thought of gauge block accessory kits...but while they have all the stuff to make the stack, I don't see where there's something specific for dial bore gauges? Specific in the sense that the feet have to register on something else you have the same error potential as with telescoping gauges - that the gauge axis isn't through the centre.

Robert, your device is almost exactly what i was thinking of....except instead of the V, I was thinking steps. Is the idea that the feet sit in the V, and being a V it then can accommodate different feet spacings? The problem I see with the V is that there is no way to control that the axis of measurement is parallel to the stack of blocks....ie problem with telescoping gauges.

strikes me that the primary advantage of a bore gauge is that the feet keep the axis of measurement through the centre of the bore....so when you do your sweep you know the lowest reading is the dia, correct? Then isn't it crucial in setting it that the axis of measurement be perfect square to the stack of blocks? that's where i was coming from in thinking there needs to be various steps for the various sizes of bore gauges

I've got Cadillac gauge, or at least Mr. Mitutoyo's version....this avoids fumbling with blocks, but how do you use it re providing a place for the feet to register?

lazlo
08-16-2011, 11:43 AM
I thought of gauge block accessory kits...but while they have all the stuff to make the stack, I don't see where there's something specific for dial bore gauges?

The gauge block accessory kits are like Lego sets. The gauge block stacking slides have a dovetail in the bottom that mounts on the height gauge foot. You insert your set of gauge blocks, add a height gauge finger, and set your bore gauge like this:

http://tooldompictures.com/FOW-73-646-000.jpg


I've got Cadillac gauge, or at least Mr. Mitutoyo's version....this avoids fumbling with blocks, but how do you use it re providing a place for the feet to register?

Same as above: you snap the height gauge finger on the disc nearest to your bore setting, adjust the height gauge to the correct offset, and then put the bore gauge between the surface plate and the height gauge finger.

Forrest Addy
08-16-2011, 11:44 AM
What you call the "feet", do you mean the centralizing buttons? They only work for real in a setting ring. I've never seen a setting gizmo where the centralizing buttons bore against anything. You had to rock the gage around until you minimized the reading then zeroed the dial. No big deal. With a little practice you can do it in a few seconds.

I know it sounds dodgy but I've used bore gages my whole career and never had a problem "finding the zero."

Mcgyver
08-16-2011, 01:37 PM
What you call the "feet", do you mean the centralizing buttons?

yes, didn't know the proper term


They only work for real in a setting ring. I've never seen a setting gizmo where the centralizing buttons bore against anything.


I was hoping to see a way or devise it myself to give same certainty a ring does via gauge block fixture - you confirmed though that it doesn't exist which is in itself helpful



You had to rock the gage around until you minimized the reading then zeroed the dial. No big deal. With a little practice you can do it in a few seconds. I know it sounds dodgy but I've used bore gages my whole career and never had a problem "finding the zero

fair enough, perhaps i was trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

Bill McLeod
08-16-2011, 02:21 PM
KBC had the Fowler one on sale in the march april flyer [back cover] maybe it will come on sale again, their stuff usually does

Video Man
08-16-2011, 02:35 PM
This is something I don't use a lot, so I just put a mike in a $15 mike holder, lock it at the appropriate setting, and then have two hands free to set the bore gauge. It is fiddly, I'll admit.

Mcgyver
08-16-2011, 02:53 PM
. It is fiddly, I'll admit.

kind of what prompted this....I've found myself not bothering with it because its less convenient....but it is a great tool for the job. I can do a pretty good job with telescoping gauges if i hold my tongue just so...but it would be a better approach to use the bore gauge.

undecided whether it just needs a bit of practice or if i should make a tool, probably just practice....I do not need anymore on the to do list!

dockrat
08-16-2011, 07:45 PM
When I win the lottery I will get a set of these. Two of them will do from 3/4 to 4" and should cover all I work with. S78XTEZ and S78XTFZ

http://www.mansontool.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=MTS&Category_Code=Bore_Gages

Until then I get by OK with the telescopic guages

3jaw
08-17-2011, 12:42 AM
I just use a micrometer. It's fiddly but it works well.

I just don't do it like this moron (WARNING: Tool abuse. Not for the squeamish!!!):

http://www.lowridermagazine.com/tech/0702_lrmp_building_block/photo_11.html

dfw5914
08-17-2011, 01:06 AM
This is something I don't use a lot, so I just put a mike in a $15 mike holder, lock it at the appropriate setting, and then have two hands free to set the bore gauge. It is fiddly, I'll admit.

That's how I've always done it (minus the mic holder). :cool:

Video Man
08-17-2011, 01:20 AM
Actually, I've had more use for the bore gauges as a relative measurement --- measuring taper or roundness in a bore, rather than as a means to find the actual dimension of the bore. In this use, the setting is just zero'd out using the bore itself and then seeing what the variance may be. I use inside mikes or telescoping gauges for dimension, a lot less trouble....

lane
08-17-2011, 09:38 PM
Here is a Gage I made to set my Dial bore gages. It uses a mic head for any thing smaller than 1 inch and you can stack Gage blocks between the two parts up to 6 inches for measurements up to 6 inches.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shop%20made%20Tools/Boresettinggage001.jpg

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Shop%20made%20Tools/Boresettinggage002.jpg
May be this will give you some ideas.

loose nut
08-19-2011, 09:54 AM
A bench mic. Nice one though.