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Chris S.
08-18-2011, 12:51 PM
This video was very odd! I mean he knew he was making a video of broaching operations, so you would think he would have been more prepared by having the arbor press clamped down! It was like watching Roy Underhill, who's famous for his scarred up hands and bleeding on screen.

Chris


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tAz5YDFtAs

dp
08-18-2011, 12:55 PM
I had a feeling it was going to be the Tubalcain vid - I laughed when I first saw that as he seemed uncharacteristically unready for the operation.

Short cut to the vid for the terminally impatient:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tAz5YDFtAs

Arthur.Marks
08-18-2011, 01:24 PM
That did give me a good laugh. I like how he is tenuously struggling to keep the press on the bench, but he's telling us it is far easier with a ratchet lever----NO! It would be far easier if it was bolted down :D Haha

lynnl
08-18-2011, 01:33 PM
I really like Tubalcain's videos. He's one of the few that I've found that are really worth watching. AND WITHOUT THAT ALL THAT RACKET, ..aka music, BLARING!

As for the wobbling arbor press: I kinda like the "impromptu" nature of it all. Gives me that ol' familiar feeling ...not fully prepared! :D

lakeside53
08-18-2011, 01:43 PM
ha! wish I could say I've never worked like that :rolleyes:

Alistair Hosie
08-18-2011, 04:51 PM
The tubal cain sharpening lathe tools is the best ever ,he uses very well ,a wooden mock up of a tool and it really makes the whole process simpler .Now tell me was there ever anothe Tubal Cain ? Surely not with such a strange name, but I have been told tubal is not the original engineer was there maybe his father also into teaching ?I love the guy anyway he's a nice old American gentleman and sounds just like Jimmy Stewart the actor what a voice great. Alistair

rohart
08-18-2011, 05:21 PM
I read that there was at least one other, who changed his alias to something else when he found there was already one Tubal Cain.

At 5:40 into the video he starts to apologise for something, but then he must have edited it out.

I didn't like him rapping the brittle and expensive broach sideways on the bench. It's quite easy to clean the chips out with a soft brush - there's no need to risk breaking it in two, even if it is a wooden bench. I also thought it would be good practice to release the pressure for a moment half way down to make sure the broach is centred as the free length gets shorter.

But I'm not clear if this is the TC who writes the books in the Tee series ?

Rosco-P
08-18-2011, 05:23 PM
Now tell me was there ever anothe Tubal Cain ? Surely not with such a strange name, but I have been told tubal is not the original engineer was there maybe his father also into teaching ?
Alistair

Of course there was: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubal-Cain
There was also an author who's articles were in MEW that wrote under that pseudonym.

The Artful Bodger
08-18-2011, 05:24 PM
Tubal Cain was a metal worker in the Bible, maybe the first metal worker? Anyone could choose to use his name as a 'nom de net'.

Chris S.
08-18-2011, 05:59 PM
The tubal cain sharpening lathe tools is the best ever ,he uses very well ,a wooden mock up of a tool and it really makes the whole process simpler ......
Alistair

Got a link to it?

Thanks,
Chris

Chris S.
08-18-2011, 06:08 PM
ha! wish I could say I've never worked like that :rolleyes:

Yeah, me too but I always hate myself afterward. On the other hand, if I were making a video it damn well would be bolted or at least clamped to the bench.

Chris

Mcgyver
08-18-2011, 06:22 PM
Tubal Cain was a metal worker in the Bible, maybe the first metal worker? Anyone could choose to use his name as a 'nom de net'.

legally yes, but its a matter of poise & respect.

Tubal was indeed the first metal worker, but in the current era Tubal Cain was the pen name of prolific and quite enjoyable model engineer author Tom Walshaw. Almost 500 model engineer articles and a dozen books, one of the most skilled, accomplished and well liked personalities in our craft. He also taught engineering at several Universities and colleges as well running some mechanical and electrical engineering faculties. So the guy was a star in this space.

The late Robert Bastow, was another well liked personality in this craft. An Englishman, he lived in Toronto for awhile but ended up I believe in Carolina? Anyway, Robert was as skilled and helpful a person in keeping with what you see from the most skilled and helpful here. When the internet and email began connecting us (major domo and rec.crafts.metalworking before the idiots took over), he used Tubal Cain there as a pseudonym for a brief time.

On having it pointed out that it was the name used by Tom Walshaw, he apologized, dropped the name and went as Teenut. That's poise. I doubt the current T.C. is aware of any of this.

Black_Moons
08-18-2011, 06:38 PM
Yeah, me too but I always hate myself afterward. On the other hand, if I were making a video it damn well would be bolted or at least clamped to the bench.

Chris
http://www.tunequest.org/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/james-brown-double-bolted.jpg
Heres the problem, that press wasent double bolted!

PixMan
08-18-2011, 06:52 PM
"mrpete22" a.k.a. TubalCain does indeed know what the whole name thing is about because in one of his videos he explains it. However, he doesn't apologize for using it and keeps doing so. I find it irritating.

Its no secret that I'm not a big fan of his. I know a lot of people have learned good things from watching his videos, and for that I thank him. However, it's things like that arbor press not being bolted down, cutting himself on a bandsaw from his poor handling technique, filing on a lathe close to a rotating chuck and a number of other things he does without noting the error (and still accepting praise) that I doth protest.

If he posts a video and starts getting any criticism, he shuts of the comments. If it's all praise, he sucks it up. I wish he'd just change to mrpete22, accept constructive critisism and admit when he's done something questionable. Instead he carries on and too many people think everything he does is the only way, the right way and he's a machining God. I think not. I know a couple of guys who are, and he ain't one of them. ;)

Mcgyver
08-18-2011, 07:14 PM
I give credit that he's putting forth a lot of effort to try and help people learn, deserves kudos for that. No machining god, agreed, niether am i ...... that doesn't mean there isn't a valid contribution to made. Not taking constructive criticism isn't good. On the name thing, imo there's just something wrong taking the name of someone well known and highly accomplished in the space. It'd be like the likes of me going and registering as Forrest Addy on Kevin's new site (hmmm maybe its still available) :D

sasquatch
08-18-2011, 07:22 PM
Yup, the videos are quite good, and i too like Alister said using a wooden mock up of a lathe bit grinding demo is very good.

Think i saw somewere his real name is "Lyal"????????????????? something.

Yes i too wonderd what the heck he was doing with that arbour press not bolted down, seemed strange after his other videos that are good.:rolleyes:

Never noticed before, but Alister is right , he does sound like James Stewart the actor.:D

Arthur.Marks
08-18-2011, 08:31 PM
In all honesty, I just enjoyed the gaff. I wasn't implying the guy was incompetent or whatever. These kind of laughs are largely due to our own experiences of inept behavior :) C'mon... we've all done stuff even though we know better. For one, I am thankful for a laugh. I always enjoy a laugh.

383 240z
09-04-2011, 11:38 PM
I have to admit I have liked watching him teach and explain simple concepts to people who dont understand them. He is a high school shop teacher. nothing more nothing less. The series on grinding HSS tools was a HUGE help to me. Keith

Tony Ennis
09-04-2011, 11:46 PM
I ground my first HSS after watching his video.

Chris S.
09-04-2011, 11:59 PM
I ground my first HSS after watching his video.

OK, I'll try again. Who has the link to the video???

dp
09-05-2011, 12:10 AM
http://www.youtube.com/user/mrpete222#p/u/130/hrDr4rYLiAk

tdmidget
09-05-2011, 12:15 AM
It appears that he has never broached a keyway before. In addition to the floppy arbor press, He pushes straight through. You should stop and let the broach straighten it self or the keyway will be tapered.

Chris S.
09-05-2011, 12:57 AM
It appears that he has never broached a keyway before. In addition to the floppy arbor press, He pushes straight through. You should stop and let the broach straighten it self or the keyway will be tapered.

That's not true at all! He stops at least three to four times when struggling to keep the press on the bench. :rolleyes:

Chris S.
09-05-2011, 01:08 AM
http://www.youtube.com/user/mrpete222#p/u/130/hrDr4rYLiAk

Thanks for the link. The large wood model was a good idea.

While I was up there I watched another of his vids. Something appears loose. Check out the parting opertion. Either the cam is moving or something else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrDr4rYLiAk&feature=player_profilepage

PixMan
09-05-2011, 01:14 AM
It appears that he has never broached a keyway before. In addition to the floppy arbor press, He pushes straight through. You should stop and let the broach straighten it self or the keyway will be tapered.

Very true! That's something I learned in trade school from a good teacher. ;)

There's dozens of things in his videos I wish he wouldn't try to pass as a good way to do things. I could get detailed about that, but that's not the point. I really just think he should have stopped after the tool grinding ones, which were good.

dp
09-05-2011, 01:15 AM
Something he failed to do in the wooden cutter teaching aid segment is explain why the one in his hand is a right hand cutter. He explained that when the tool is facing you and the right hand side is the cutting edge, it is a right hand tool, but he did not identify what makes the right hand side of the aid the cutting edge. This is where our friend Airsmith went wrong. It has nothing to do with the profile seen from the top - it has everything to do with the various rake angles.

I had intended to create a wooden aid to explain the missing parts but got busy with trying to retire again.

PixMan
09-05-2011, 01:18 AM
Thanks for the link. The large wood model was a good idea.

While I was up there I watched another of his vids. Something appears loose. Check out the parting operation. Either the cam is moving or something else.



I know which video you're talking about. I believe it one of the 6 it takes him to make a simple bronze bushing. The cutoff tool is in a quick change tool post, and I really think he just forgot to tighten the cam lock. There are a dozen other things in that series alone that I see as poor technique at best, downright dangerous in some cases.

Chris S.
09-05-2011, 10:42 AM
Just for the record and just in case Tublacane ever reads this thread...

I think what he's done with his videos is admirable and enjoyable to watch. In particular, I just watched him bore and internally thread a PVC coupling. My bet is that every nube that watched it got an erection. Why, you ask? Because the typical upstart has no or little metal stock, and what he does have is a treasure to him. The thought of wasting it to gain experience will be painful. PVC, on the other hand, is dirt cheap, super easy to work, and easily accessible. The student could machine boxes of the stuff without breaking his bank.

When I started this thread I had not seen a Tublacane video before. Since then I've watched quite a few. His photography is excellent and his videos are well structured.

All that said, he should be able to take critiques because no one is perfect, evidenced by not being prepared by having that press secured to the bench. ;)

Chris

PixMan
09-05-2011, 12:04 PM
The only issue I have with "nobody's perfect" (and I certainly am not either) is that you never see him correct a blatant mistake because he doesn't seem to know it's there either. Look at this VIDEO #47 (http://www.youtube.com/user/mrpete222#p/u/10/SISnFIEbTwk) and move up to about 4:25. Notice that the part has magically moved out further from the chuck so he can turn the shoulder length. This, on a rough stock diameter in a 3-jaw chuck and after the hole is finished. Now there's no way the hole can be concentric to the O.D.'s he's about to turn. You can see the runout of the hole when he transitions to another view and starts the machine at 5:50 into the video.

The runout wouldn't be so bad, but this is supposed to be a bushing. A bushing should have all diameters concentric, but the more important lesson is that he's giving lessons to newbies who may not know any better and he doesn't mention a word about the runout. He also uses an adjustable wrench to turn a hand reamer, where a flat tap wrench would shine.

In the next VIDEO #48 (http://www.youtube.com/user/mrpete222#p/u/9/o_PtfyFg4jc) he does the cutoff. Again, the part moves out in the chuck, and more runout is introduced. This is where you (and lots of other people) saw the loose cutoff tool. He remarks about it "grabbing" and even edits-in a note about it. Not a word about the lack of rigidity that he's so adamant about in one of the parting videos.

Perhaps I shouldn't be critical, but while the errors in matters of standard machine practices are pretty bad, the errors of omitting any corrections are worse. Can I do better? I doubt I'd have the patience to make 5 to 10 minute videos. I top out at about 3-1/2 minutes. ;)

Kudos to Mr. Peterson for the tool grinding, those are fairly good. I'm just annoyed (envious?) by seeing so much praise foisted upon him by people ignorant of those sub-standard practices.

dp
09-05-2011, 03:53 PM
In Tubalcain's defense he is not making parts, he is showing how to make parts, and though some of his presentations fail some safety rule his focus on making the part is effective.

The videos at this site have similar issues regarding safety http://techtv.mit.edu/collections/ehs-videos/videos but teaching safety is not the point. They do advise for clarity certain shields etc. are removed.

If Tubalcain wished to make a video only on safety I have no doubt he could do an exemplary job of it. Roy Underhill and Norm Abram have both done some things that are clearly not the safest way to approach the operation, but it is sometimes necessary to make the point.

I seriously doubt Tubalcain is unaware of safety in his work, and each of us has done something that equates to higher risk had we done it differently.

There is a video on YouTube of a HSM fellow working with his daughter at the lathe and I immediately cringed and was truly alarmed when I saw how close her hair was to the spinning parts. That, and not a career machinist fumbling around camera angles to make a point, is a serious safety breach.

Tony Ennis
09-05-2011, 04:06 PM
OK, I'll try again. Who has the link to the video???

Search for him on youtube, subscribe to his channel, and then I believe you can search his videos. It's one of the earlier ones.

Chris S.
09-05-2011, 04:58 PM
Search for him on youtube, subscribe to his channel, and then I believe you can search his videos. It's one of the earlier ones.

A bit late on the trigger. dp posted it in post 21. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/user/mrpete222#p/u/130/hrDr4rYLiAk

Chris S.
09-05-2011, 06:06 PM
[QUOTE=PixMan]
Yeah, I reflexed when I saw the "Hexagonal Rounder" he used as a tap wrench and yes, I saw the stock suddenly wobbling but I didn't make the connection that he repositioned it in the chuck.... Do now though! You're also correct that he never commented or admitted that something wasn't locked down in #48.

I guess I just didn't want to trash him and wrongly overlooked (what added up to be) significant errors. Can I recant? :D

Chris