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View Full Version : sheet metal bug -- diy tools?



Tony
08-18-2011, 04:50 PM
don't know how it started but a few months ago i got a bit of a sheet metal
bug.. simple stuff, boxes, bent forms, etc .. things I used to "build up" with
the welder I've been finding quite enjoyable to form instead..

anyway i'm wondering what my odds are of building a small notcher.. to
take maybe 4" x 4" pieces out to make things like boxes / pans / etc..
maybe 14 gauge at the heaviest.. aluminum most often but with the
occasional stainless thrown in (but lighter gauge).

someone do this as their day job? any tips / hints? I assume i have to be able
to account for material thickness.. but how much of a gap do I need?

the blades will need heat treat.. maybe i can find something
that fits the bill and is already the right shape and heat treated.
hell its just a square right?:)

have done some shopping around but nothing round these parts in the
used market.

I have a 12T hydraulic press I can put this under.

if I could figure out how to punch holes, too, that'd be spectacular.

home-built ironworker anyone? :)

PTSideshow
08-18-2011, 05:40 PM
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Tools/DSC02030.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Tools/DSC02032.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Tools/DSC02033.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Tools/DSC02035.jpg

PTSideshow
08-18-2011, 05:50 PM
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Tools/DSC02019.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Tools/DSC02025.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Tools/DSC02023.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Tools/DSC02029.jpg

PTSideshow
08-18-2011, 06:01 PM
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Tools/DSC02212.jpg

Only one I have ever seen, no name on it but has a number of accessories for sheet metal and bending.

The other tools are available at most big box stores/HF

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Tools/DSC02213.jpg

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Tools/irons-1.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Tools/DSC02094.jpg

Disaster area
08-19-2011, 02:56 AM
PT Sideshow;
Is your 'sheet metal brake for bench vise' bolted to the vise?

A slightly different version (1 hole @ 5/8", 2 holes @ 1/2");



https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/9JrD8qSagHPoSYy7FE4jWQ?feat=directlink


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-HNN1WgSU1jw/Tk34Do4_adI/AAAAAAAAAd8/KHX55E_OnLA/s400/IMG_0001.JPG

PTSideshow
08-19-2011, 08:26 AM
Yes as you can see in the first photo of the vise both sides have 3 holes in the top wings so you can mount the rollers on top of the benders jaws.

J Weber
08-19-2011, 08:41 AM
LOL,love the "wack a doodle" Had my own variation of that here in my shop.A big vise and a hammer can do wonders.I have bent up 4 foot light sheet with wood and C clamps and the rubber mallet too.

Dawai
08-19-2011, 08:43 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO5CZdbgtwU
(1)... Tipping wheel, a pizza cutter wheel on spindle, lowered down over a urethane caster allowing you to roll a "creased bend" into the sheet, it can then be bent the remainder over with a hammer and dolly, or sheet pliers, or..
A stubborn person can use that tipping wheel and make near anything anyone can with a brake. except no limit on the distance..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEgnRNcn7BQ
(2)... TUCKPUCK.. a depression cut into a piece of UHMW, sold by a buddy.. you hammer the metal down sharply in the middle creating "wrinkles" which are then hammered into themselves compressing the sheet into a thicker piece effectively shrinking the sheet making it "roll over" and curve. A "hard wood stump" can do somewhat the same thing, except THIS you can put into a toolbox and not trip over it. See stump shrinking.. People can use stumps to "make anything" by varying the stretch and shrink over a piece of metal.. Old car fenders used to be made by hammer and stump, no more tools. (forgotten art form) Leather sandbag, used for stretching with mallets and hammers.

(3)... Plasma cutter, able to make patterns or "notch" by mdf pattern.. or cardboard pattern for one use.

(4) assorted hammers, teardrop mallets... careful.. you can go broke buying "fancy ones"..

(5 a luxury) English wheel, mostly only for stretching metal.. smoothing is mostly what I use it for.. Add a go cart slick and rounded lower roller and you can "roll form" any transmission tunnel or rounded profile, this does not stretch or shrink the metal, just form it into a curve..

(6 real luxury) a power hammer, pullmax, yoder, shop dog hammer. Allows you to make scrap much faster than "learning the real principles by hand slowly".

Youtube is your friend.. There is people shaping metal that I wonder how they find their way home at night.. So egotistical? I wonder how they stuff that head in front of a mirror.

PUNCHING ON PRESS.. mount your electricians Greenlee knockout cutters on the press work surfaces.. a fine thread mount, use index cross hairs on outside sleeve to center your holes.. BUY slug splitters so the half moons fall out instead of the slug having to be pried out.

You can buy hole punch tools from Cleveland tool and die company, make holders in your HSM shop.. ain't it fun to be able to do that??

Dawai
08-19-2011, 09:05 AM
OCD??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRGjKfOHfM8
A kid.. using wire forms to press designs into sheetmetal.. make them toolboxes unique.

PTSideshow
08-19-2011, 10:48 AM
Thanks for the video's, as I have thought about a tipping type wheel but the cost of a stand alone or accessories for another type sheet metal machine for occasional use not to mention space. That one shows that a simple cheap shop built one will work a treat!
What I found interesting, was the possibility of up scaling the idea. By using heavier gas welding rod or round stock welded, soldered or brazed to a steel backing plate. And then making either larger 18"x18" would probably be the largest size one could do by a hand type press. Plus the cheapest neoprene rubber backing sheets for the embossing plate are the interlocking floor pads. 24"x24"
The original version/style could also be used with a child doing the design free hand and adults doing the pressing. It would be good for a repeat pattern small scale production of wall panels or the old style tin ceiling panels.:D

Dawai
08-19-2011, 11:17 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7vXNLpVafM&feature=related
Making decorative embossed boxes from aluminum cans. Trash to treasure.

PT... If I had it to do over? I could consolidate the C-press and the english wheel, tipping wheel, bead roller, press, bender, stock bender, roll bender, Model3 bender..
(perhaps it needs to say Acme, as in Wile E Coyote on the side?)
Hows that for a universal tool? I have been making tooling for it as I go, and need.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/ibewgypsie/DSCN2452.jpg

1) Ain't nothing holding you back, but you..
2) CAN'T is a 4 letter word.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/ibewgypsie/DSCN2489.jpg
Mock up for the go cart slick.. NOTE, that brown cylinder there on the left can hold the cleveland punch and dies for the scotchman ironworker there in the back right.

Harvey Melvin Richards
08-19-2011, 11:48 AM
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Tools/DSC02212.jpg

Only one I have ever seen, no name on it but has a number of accessories for sheet metal and bending.



I have one of those and I'm still trying to find info or a user manual for it. I haven't even mounted mine yet.

Tony
08-19-2011, 01:23 PM
here's a little bending brake i cobbled together. its maybe 30" across,
two pieces of angle and other "junk" to get the angle to either stay
still or move. :)

i have to say its light enough that i can just throw it on the bench
and throw it off as I need it.. instead of wheeling out the bigger one
for the small bends.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/knucklehead/smallbrake2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/knucklehead/smallbrake1.jpg

I was going to put a clamping head on the top till I started experimenting
with just bolting some steel as required. What I like about this is that
you can make folds onto themselves (like a box section) with nothing getting
in the way. downside is you need scraps in all the right sizes.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/knucklehead/bends1.jpg

ps my new favorite color for tools is white.
but it turns "grime" fast. i made the mistake of painting this with a brush.
its small enough that masking and cleaning up the gun etc would've been
a pain.. but its a week later and this thing still aint dry! I'm throwing all
my brushes out.

Greg Parent
08-19-2011, 02:03 PM
don't know how it started but a few months ago i got a bit of a sheet metal bug.. simple stuff, boxes, bent forms, etc .. things I used to "build up" with the welder I've been finding quite enjoyable to form instead.. anyway i'm wondering what my odds are of building a small notcher.. to take maybe 4" x 4" pieces out to make things like boxes / pans / etc..maybe 14 gauge at the heaviest.. aluminum most often but with the
occasional stainless thrown in (but lighter gauge).someone do this as their day job? any tips / hints? I assume i have to be able to account for material thickness.. but how much of a gap do I need? the blades will need heat treat.. maybe i can find something that fits the bill and is already the right shape and heat treated. hell its just a square right? have done some shopping around but nothing round these parts in the used market. I have a 12T hydraulic press I can put this under. if I could figure out how to punch holes, too, that'd be spectacular. home-built ironworker anyone?

Hello Knucklehead,
Would you be interedted in making these three parts out of 16 gauge steel with your sheet metal tools? The holes, the 30 and 60 degree angled cuts can be ignored. The radius on the side tabs will change their positions so I will take care of them myself.
Thanks for looking.
Greg

Top of tubeclamps...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/MuddyTires/iso2.jpg

Angled view...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/MuddyTires/iso1.jpg

Side tab details....holes and angled cuts can be ignored. The radius changes their positions.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/MuddyTires/iso3.jpg

Dawai
08-19-2011, 06:24 PM
?? Cnc sliders for pipe??? put the bearings in the openings??

I'd do a die for the press... wham.. one.. wham two.... wham... wham, wham..
The curve actually adds a whole lotta strength.. if that is what that is.. 16ga would be fine.. for several hundred pounds.

Tony
08-20-2011, 04:23 AM
They look like punk rock arm bands to me. :)
Like a vambraces.

Greg if we were any closer I'da been happy to lend a hand.

Dawai
08-20-2011, 09:04 AM
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Tools/DSC02212.jpg
That's actually a pretty cool deal there.. Only way I could see to improve it? have a way of cranking the distance between the two bottom rollers to "roll" angle? have the angle break come in and out to stand up vertical? for long pieces of stock?

Care to post the dimensions of centers? Roller diameters? easier to not guess on a experimental copy. I really don't relish the idea of drilling my vise tho, I've broken quite a few of them without weakening them with holes. I'm thinking a deal that is mounted on a 2x2 to drop into the sockets around the shop. Quick setup when needed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/ibewgypsie/tuberollerbender.jpg
My version of a "do all bender".. I made it "too much like a battleship" and not enough like a light cruiser.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/ibewgypsie/bender1.jpg
After powdercoating by Pat... It's sitting in the corner, in the way.. too heavy to move easily into a useable position.

Tony
08-20-2011, 09:28 AM
holy ring roller! that looks niiice.

I rigged up a hossfeld clone and now am wondering if I couldn't use
it to roll rings. I'd need some kind of tie-rod to keep the works from
opening and closing, but I bet it could do some nice smaller work.

PTSideshow
08-20-2011, 10:17 AM
Will do today or tomorrow, and a couple more pic's

lazlo
08-20-2011, 10:35 AM
My version of a "do all bender".. I made it "too much like a battleship" and not enough like a light cruiser.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/ibewgypsie/bender1.jpg
After powdercoating by Pat... It's sitting in the corner, in the way.. too heavy to move easily into a useable position.

David, I think Hell just froze over -- is that a mini-van you're driving?! :p

Great job on the bender!

Greg Parent
08-20-2011, 10:58 AM
?? Cnc sliders for pipe??? put the bearings in the openings??

I'd do a die for the press... wham.. one.. wham two.... wham... wham, wham..
The curve actually adds a whole lotta strength.. if that is what that is.. 16ga would be fine.. for several hundred pounds.

How much to make 3 pieces?

Mcgyver
08-20-2011, 11:29 AM
here's a few I've made. The brake appeared in HSM a few years ago. The spot welder is mostly done but I couldn't get a enough amps out of (getting i thing 1500, need 3000). It sits until I figure it out. Shearing is taken care by a 3' brown boggs - not something I'd want to try a make, shearing takes a lot of force and needs a heavy set up.

I really need to get that spot welding going, you can do so much when you can start sticking bits together easily. A notcher would be nice, but its interesting what you can do with creating pockets etc via spot welding. Last couple of pics are of a nice enclosure made a friend to highlight box making without notching

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b201/michael0100/finished%20brake/DSCN8912.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b201/michael0100/finished%20brake/brake1.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b201/michael0100/Roller/gearend.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b201/michael0100/Roller/small.jpg

Mcgyver
08-20-2011, 11:31 AM
The front of the tioggle links goes to largish foot peddle - it closes the arms and at the end of the stroke hits a micro switch that triggers the timer. The whole thing works very well, just not enough amps (yet)

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b201/michael0100/spot%20welder/paintedfront.jpg


http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b201/michael0100/spot%20welder/sideview.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b201/michael0100/cnc%20enclosure/8assembled.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b201/michael0100/cnc%20enclosure/2closeupofbottomcorner.jpg

Mcgyver
08-20-2011, 11:32 AM
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b201/michael0100/cnc%20enclosure/4sideintobottom.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b201/michael0100/cnc%20enclosure/7completedchassis.jpg

all sides on the enclosure break down as flat - there no typical box/pan bend up

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b201/michael0100/cnc%20enclosure/1collectionofparts.jpg

mochinist
08-20-2011, 11:53 AM
wow, nice job on the box

Mcgyver
08-20-2011, 01:56 PM
wow, nice job on the box

its not my work, chap I met on cnczone did it...made whole thing and sent it for material cost, nice eh? A year later I got to return the favour and did a bunch of machining. I was so impressed with what could be done with just brake and spot welder, its what motivated me to make those two items

Tony
08-20-2011, 02:21 PM
Mcgyver, great work.. that brake is beautiful.

Evan
08-20-2011, 02:44 PM
Here is a very simple tool that is very useful. It is a hole finder. When you have a sheet that must match up to an existing piece with holes in it you slip it in over the edge of the new piece to locate the hole and spot it. It can be made with just about any reach you need on the spot for a job. Obviously, it's for when you don't have room to drill from the backside such as on an aircraft wing.

http://ixian.ca/pics9/holefinder.jpg

Here is some sheet metal work.

http://ixian.ca/pics9/cab1.jpg

http://ixian.ca/pics9/cab2.jpg

http://ixian.ca/pics9/cab3.jpg

Dawai
08-20-2011, 04:53 PM
Evan, can you post a link to your table-rod bender you did while doing wrought iron?
Lots of new faces here.

Overlapping body panels.. that marker is pretty cool.. Simple? ya just slide it "over the top panel and find the Hole and put the dimpled part in that hole? then pencil the top sheet? Cleeko holes... once you start "sheetmetal work" you gotta have a box of cleekos.. (lil spring loaded Hooked wires to hold the new part in place till formed and fitted enough to weld in)

NOW, if I could still just see to "butt weld"..

PTSideshow
08-24-2011, 10:43 AM
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Tools/DSCF0017.jpg
Here are all the bits I have. It has the made in USA cast in the bottom and assorted numbers.

4pcs shoulder bolts 1 x5/8" shoulder -13NC bolt part "long, 2 " long bolt head is "
1 pin 5/8"x2 "
2 Flat rollers 2"dia x1", 5/8" hole, each has an indent/back cut 3/16" deep and 1 " wide
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Tools/DSCF0023.jpg
1 tube roller, as it is to small an item to be bending " steel 2"dia x1 ", 5/8" hole
Top groove "
Middle grove 3/8"
Bottom grove
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Tools/DSCF0022.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Tools/DSCF0021.jpg
1 flat roller 2"dia x1" 5/8" hole, has steps on top and bottom so the crank roller can fit in the indent on the two fixed rollers for thin materials. " deep
2 handles "x "x8" offsets two 45's 1"in between the bends, 4" from crank end, 1" from roller end, 2 bolts "20nc one on each side of the spindle hole.

PTSideshow
08-24-2011, 10:44 AM
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d200/ptsideshow/Tools/DSCF0024.jpg
Vise jaw bender 1" wide the angle is " and 6" inch long
Center hole is centered of the vise jaw width, Bolt holes "in from the jaw edges. The center line of the spindle hole is " back from edge of the jaws that the replacement jaws go against. (The jaws inserts)
Hope this will help :D

Dawai
08-24-2011, 11:00 AM
Thank you Glen.. I'll make a sketch as my printer has taken a dump.

When I used to build Stainless tattoo machines here.. I could not find a tool to do the bending of the strap for welding. That'd do it mucho better than the finger brake I traded the craftsman lathe for..

SHOT the photos into OpenOffice.org.writer and pasted the text, created a pdf file to save on cdrom for Later.. INstead of writing down everything.. I was sure I'd not get it all into quickie notes..

These forums, tho I love them are not real libraries.. they are a hard drive spinning in some distant location that may or may not keep what you want to refer to later. Crashes, hacks and deleted photos from photobucket..

PTSideshow
08-24-2011, 12:03 PM
If you think I forgot anything, give a yodell!:D