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mototed
08-19-2011, 06:26 PM
Sorry, but I had no choice but to use my lathe and mill for a wood work project. Sometimes I need something made of wood for a project, but I don't have the space for more tools :(
I have several extra centers for my lathe, so I adapted (wasted) one as a driver for turning wood. It's a 3/4" x 1/4" thick piece of square tube, sharpened on the four sides that engage the work. Tacked this on with a mig welder and worked fine for what I needed it to do. I didn't have a dog that would fit a 2" square piece of oak. http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc28/mototed/IMG_0076.jpg
Ted

davidwdyer
08-19-2011, 06:31 PM
I'm sure that must be considered a sin, but probably not an unforgivable one.

The Artful Bodger
08-19-2011, 06:37 PM
Yes, I think that does score rather highly, but not in the same league as using a screwdriver as a wood chisel or a wood chisel to de-burr holes in steel.:)

mototed
08-19-2011, 06:40 PM
I do feel rather "dirty" after using them for this.

KiddZimaHater
08-19-2011, 06:45 PM
It's not a sin to use metal cutting machines to turn/mill wood OCCASIONALLY.
However, if you do it on a regular basis, you'll be banned from this forum and sentenced to 50 lashes with a wet noodle.

H380
08-19-2011, 06:49 PM
It's a tool. You make things with tools. You don't need absolution. Say 10 Hail Marys if you feel guilty.:p

Toolguy
08-19-2011, 06:49 PM
Lucky you're down South. We use a wet squirrel!:p And for woodworkers that's 10 Nail Marys.

polepenhollow
08-19-2011, 06:56 PM
When I have to do woodwork, I use my lathe, mill and drill press.
A hell of a mess is usually made w/ the wood chips and debris.
After finishing, I use it as an oppurtunity to clean well and oil things.
Get the wood out and clean the tools.

K Liv

Duffy
08-19-2011, 06:58 PM
I hope nobody here hurts themselves by biting their tongue when it is stuck in their cheek!:D
My metalworking machines are the DUMBEST tools! They cant seem to tell WHAT material they chew, metal, wood, rubber, plastic, you name it.
Since I am an unreconstituted heathen, I feel NO remorse!:rolleyes:

Guido
08-19-2011, 07:36 PM
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p86/Guido_album/wrenchers-tool-chest.jpg

Sometimes 'ya gotta do what 'ya gotta do. Notice the handles. And the pricing.

http://thekneeslider.com/

--G

JoeCB
08-19-2011, 07:48 PM
Wood ? not a problem. Just be sure to clean off all the dust and chips immediately afer finishing the days work. leaving dust and chips will attract moisture and cause rust
Joe B

sasquatch
08-19-2011, 07:51 PM
I refuse to turn any wood on my lathe just because of the mess,, i turn wood on my old wood lathe if i have to.

sasquatch
08-19-2011, 08:11 PM
Forgot to mention i have an 85 year old friend who has a 9in south bend, and turns everything and anything on it.

Mostly maple "Cant Hook Stocks he sells, but also any wooden parts he needs, then of course being a real packrat and fleamarket vendor he has to polish up his goodies he finds to sell, So the wire wheel is used often with little piles of rust, dirt, old grease etc laying on the lathe.

WHAT A MESS! It,s a shame!!:D

Black_Moons
08-19-2011, 08:12 PM
Wood ? not a problem. Just be sure to clean off all the dust and chips immediately afer finishing the days work. leaving dust and chips will attract moisture and cause rust
Joe B

Eh, Iv found leaving wood dust on my metal lathe to not be a problem, but I only turn very well dryed wood, And tend to soak my lathe in oil, so its likey the wood dust gets saturated with oil before it can asorb any moisture.

Pertty sure green wood will rust metal up badly, if not coat it in sticky sap thats hell to get off.

RussZHC
08-19-2011, 08:14 PM
I'm the "sole" of the family...only one even remotely interested in metal...everyone else is ga-ga over wood.

I have to go with Sasquatch on this one because of time needed to remove all the wood shavings and dust during the lathe refurbishment, wood particles that had compressed and molded themselves w the help of oils from metal usage. Sorry to me each machine has to be one or the other.

Evan
08-19-2011, 08:52 PM
http://ixian.ca/pics9/bowtie1.jpg

http://ixian.ca/pics9/ball1.jpg

mototed
08-19-2011, 09:04 PM
Well, I didn't leave the sawdust on there for long. After the sacrilege, I always wipe the machines off in a mixture of holly water and soluble oil. Wood work IS a dusty mess. At least with metal, most of it falls to the ground.
It all leads up to carriage work for this project
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc28/mototed/IMG_0069.jpg
This is still very rough work to this point, still have LOTS of work to do on the details. In the first photo of the post is the hubs for the spoked wheels. The wheels will be 8" in diameter. I scaled some drawings from civil war cannons and trying to get a reasonable size. I know that the barrel is not "correct". I will probably cut the muzzle flange off and continue the taper out to the end. Sort of parrot rifle style.
Although I hate wood work, A fun project none the less.
Maybe that four closed house next door would make a nice wood shop:rolleyes:

wooleybooger
08-19-2011, 11:21 PM
I hope nobody here hurts themselves by biting their tongue when it is stuck in their cheek!:D
My metalworking machines are the DUMBEST tools! They cant seem to tell WHAT material they chew, metal, wood, rubber, plastic, you name it.
Since I am an unreconstituted heathen, I feel NO remorse!:rolleyes:
you have to do what you have to do! i just dont have the room for 2 different machines that basically do the same thing. clean-up is a PITA but the job gets done.

macona
08-20-2011, 12:52 AM
I avoid wood on machines intended for metal. Wood is highly abrasive. Look at wood working machines where the chips hit and you will see polished and worn metal. Lots of silica in wood.

lakeside53
08-20-2011, 01:01 AM
Trex decking machines beautifully on a BP mill! A hundred or so custom brackets/braces... Lots of mess; no regrets.

DATo
08-20-2011, 07:44 AM
A young man I hired long ago who was just breaking into the trade and short of funds asked me if he could make a wooden tool chest using the machine shop equipment - mainly a Bridgeport - with the promise that he would work on it entirely on his own time and would faithfully clean the machines and surrounding area when he was finished. I gave my approval and he was as good as his word.

He went on to make a Gerstner clone which was totally indistinguishable from an original. He bought the metal hardware from Gerstner. The dang thing was a true work of art. This was about 15 years ago and the mill is still working as good as it did before so I doubt that wood working on a machine made for metalwork is necessarily a bad thing. I do however agree with those who say that wood retains moisture so a thorough cleaning and oiling is important after use in this manner.

Your Old Dog
08-20-2011, 08:11 AM
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p86/Guido_album/wrenchers-tool-chest.jpg

Sometimes 'ya gotta do what 'ya gotta do. Notice the handles. And the pricing.

http://thekneeslider.com/

--G

DON'T WANT TO DERAIL THE THREAD BUT CAN'T PASS UP THIS OPPORTUNITY.

As seen in the link you posted: So your daughter comes home dragging this guy in behind her! What do you do?

http://thekneeslider.com/images/2011/06/slugger-4.jpg

Richard Wilson
08-20-2011, 08:22 AM
I used to have a wood turning lathe as well as the 2 metal turning ones, but I wasn't particularly good at turning with hand tools. Most of my wood turning is for pattern making, and I can turn a cylindrical pattern to +/- .001", truely paralell on the metal lathe, which is more than I could on the wood lathe, which I have now sold, because I've better use for the space. I only use seasoned wood for the patterns, so I've never found corrosion a problem, it might well be if you are of these green wood bowl turners. Yes its messy, and ideally I'd like a separate shop for wood work, but that isn't going to happen. Anyway, after a session of wood turning, it really makes me clean up properly!

You'll be pleased to know that most of the wood turning is done on the Chinese 7x12, not the 'proper' lathe.

richard

MrSleepy
08-20-2011, 09:00 AM
I avoid wood on machines intended for metal. Wood is highly abrasive. Look at wood working machines where the chips hit and you will see polished and worn metal. Lots of silica in wood.

My 1953 Harrison L5 came to me from a school in Batley (the one it was originally sold to) in 1985.
For the last 10years it was owned by the school...they used it in the woodworking dept.
When I got it...it had wood dust everywhere...but once I stripped it down clean and oiled/greased it...painted and polished it...a really nice lathe came back to life.

Rob

sasquatch
08-20-2011, 09:06 AM
YOD,, great tool chest pics,, thanks for putting the link up here, very interesting.

I have an old friend who is now 70 yrs, and he still has the same great plywood tall roll cabinet he built when he was 18 and taking his automotive apprenticeship,, painted the original Snap On red colour with chrome handles.

A real keep sake for him.

Mad Scientist
08-20-2011, 10:44 AM
I will use my machines to work metal, wood, plastic, whatever the job requires. Yes woodworking can be a little messy but if you havenít notice so can metalworking.
The real problem here is not that you will be making a mess but will you take the time to clean up after the job is done irregardless of what kind of chips are there?

uncle pete
08-20-2011, 12:18 PM
As mentioned, Wood makes a hell of a mess to clean up but my shops far too small to allow the addition of woodworking tools. I've yet to see any machine manual that specificly states wood is not to be machined. If I had the extra room and money I'd have a seperate woodworking shop but I'd also have a large metal working lathe and mill in that shop too. I very much doubt I'd ever buy what would be classed as a normal woodworking lathe.

For smaller projects you can't beat the accuracy and machining ease once the wood is fixtured in a mill. Try Googling "Wagner saftey planner" They were originally designed for drill press use, They work far better in a mill. It's basicly a 3" diameter face mill for wood with 3 easily resharpened HSS cutting tips. Need to plane wood to .001 accuracy with a good surface finish? No problem. For a HSM type their perfect and I can't reccomend them highly enough. Just make sure to back up the wood edge with scrap on the exit side to prevent breakout. I'm also building a scale replica of a Napolean 12 lbr cannon and all of the non round wood parts are being machined on my mill. Yeah wood can be abrasive but so are metal chips. I've read about metal working lathes and mills being used in pattern making shops because they were the most accurate tools to use. I plan on building a mount to fixture a router to the vertical dovetail on the Z axis for my Bridgeport clone mill sometime soon to get the higher rpms needed for woodworking router bits. That Wagner planer works just fine at normal mill spindle speeds. If fact most mills top spindle speeds would be too high.

Pete

Evan
08-20-2011, 01:34 PM
South Bend made wood turning attachments for the 9" series. Spindle speed is rather low but it still works. I use my lathe to make things like handles on a regular basis.

http://ixian.ca/pics9/hammer1.jpg

mike os
08-20-2011, 01:49 PM
So your daughter comes home dragging this guy in behind her! What do you do?

http://thekneeslider.com/images/2011/06/slugger-4.jpg


easy... while the daughter keeps him occupied, nick his bike, its a fair swop :D

Oldbrock
08-20-2011, 05:19 PM
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj232/brockley1_bucket/CIMG0550-1.jpg
Tooled up and made 40 of these nutcrackers for sale and presents from white oak. Cuttings just vacuum up, much easier than lots of 4340 curly chips. Peter

gwilson
08-20-2011, 05:29 PM
I machine wood,ivory,or plastic on my metal machinery. Generally,I keep a vacuum nozzle very near the cutting action.

I have yet to have wood dust cause any corrosion,but it must be understood that I only machine dry,usually old wood,and my shop is climate controlled.

I just don't let the wood dust get everywhere,like in leadscrews,etc., only because I don't like having to clean them out later. Keep using the vac.

chessspy
07-02-2013, 08:55 AM
Hi Guys,
I am a new member of this forum, and a woodturner by trade, (now) I served my time in engineering in the late 60s and 70s when there were lots of jobs for metal turners.
As a metal to wood thurncoat I would just like to mention that here in the States boxwood, (buxus sempervirens) is difficult to get and of course it is essential to my trade now as I restore antique chess sets. I have however been buying turned boxwood blanks from Octapus in Turkey. They do not advertise these turned blanks but do supply them (only in largish amounts, 20kilos +) boxwood has been traditionally used for making prototypes and mold masters, not to mention pattern blocks of various types.
So, to get to the point of my post. I am planning on making a floating chuck to do some simple rose engine turning.
What I envisage is a chuck about 4" diameter hollowed out with a smaller chuck inside held by dowels inserted from the outside so that the inner chuck can move (back and forth on the dowels) to allow the 'rose' movement, this is created by having a rose shape attached to the chuck and a stationary 'pusher' attached to the lather bed which screws towards the rose and pushes it back as the chuck rotates.
I plan on using draught excluder tape to hold the inner chuck and make some resistance to the pusher. I plan on having a screw in ring insert to center the inner chuck when I wish to make the basic plain turned form, removing this when I an ready to apply the pattern.
I can probably manage a drawing or two if there is anyone interested and or pictures as I progress.
Any help or suggestions will be very gratefully accepted.

Toolguy
07-02-2013, 09:24 AM
I would like to see it. I am intrigued by the ingenious mechanisms of rose engines and ornamental lathes. I don't have time to play with them, but find them interesting. You may want to start a new thread with a proper title for easier finding.

john hobdeclipe
07-02-2013, 09:57 AM
Yes, please begin a new thread and show your ideas and progress. I have an interest in rose engine work, and I know that a few other forum participants do.

Pete49
07-02-2013, 10:49 AM
Forgot to mention i have an 85 year old friend who has a 9in south bend, and turns everything and anything on it.

Mostly maple "Cant Hook Stocks he sells, but also any wooden parts he needs, then of course being a real packrat and fleamarket vendor he has to polish up his goodies he finds to sell, So the wire wheel is used often with little piles of rust, dirt, old grease etc laying on the lathe.
WHAT A MESS! It,s a shame!!:D
I guess at 85 he wont have to worry about rust etc. :p I have done some wood on my lathe but I vacuum it daily so I don't reckon it matters then. Sad I know but I have time on my hands
Pete

Ian B
07-02-2013, 01:01 PM
Well, after all the votes either neutral or against turning wood on a metal lathe, I'll put in a vote in favour of it. First, compared to most wood lathes, you have all the functions of the carriage for parallel, taper and facing cuts, or the option to set up a bar rest if you wish.

But better is that, when you clean the wood chippings, they also tend to remove that nasty, black oily layer of fine swarf-filled goop that accumulates, especially in the lathe's 'private' regions - in the tray behind the bed's feet etc. Everything seems to clean up so nicely afterwards.

Ian

Evan
07-02-2013, 01:05 PM
A rose engine is on my list of things to build if I can just stay alive long enough. Start a new thread for your project. Build projects are always popular.

Paul Alciatore
07-02-2013, 02:05 PM
All this concern about moisture in wood causing rust?

How many of us use wood blocks to make tool stands? Drills sitting in holes in wood. Taper adapters sitting in holes in wood. Punches, milling cutters, calipers, micrometers, and almost anything else in our shops sitting in holes in wood. Many of the more expensive of these items are actually packaged in wood boxes at the factory and stored and shipped to us in them. Often these wood boxes and stands are not painted or finished in any manner. The inside of the smaller holes in them is almost never finished: just drilled and used.

How many of these tools arrive in our shops rusted due to the wood? Even among the used ones that are many decades old, how many are rusted due to the wood? How many drills that you store in holes drilled in a wood block become rusted at the end of the drill in the hole? I live in the south, near (30 miles / 40 km +/-) the Gulf Coast and I am a lot more likely to find rust on an item where it is exposed to the air than where it is protected by being in contact with wood. This is due to salt spray. I am sure someone will come up with a horrible example, but my experience with rust due to contact with wood is just about zero. And I am sure that overall, the same will be true of most of the rest of us.

So, just where does this idea that wood will cause rust come from?

A lathe or mill is a tool. Tools cut things. Not just metal things, but things in general. If you can hold it, you can cut it. My drill presses regularly get both wood and metal work. Not a spot of rust on them from it. And I don't always clean up as quickly as I should. Right now there is a combination of wood, plastic, aluminum, and steel chips on my drill press table. It has been there for weeks. OK, I am lazy: not really, many other things to do. But no rust on the DP. Neither are the metal and wood drills rusted. Some of the wood drills are in a wood stand. Common pine from a 2x4. Just a scrap that was sitting there, not some carefully selected, exotic wood.

You should have enough oil on your lathe or mill for any wood chips to pick up that oil and become a source of oil instead of moisture. So, cut, clean up, and stop worrying. Odds are your machines will still be going strong long after the worms can no longer find any part of you to feast on.

Richard P Wilson
07-02-2013, 04:47 PM
Just beware of oak. it contains oxalic acid, and will corrode metal. Tool chests made of oak look beautiful but unless they have drawer liners made of something else will corrode any steel tools stored in them. Metal fasteners in oak should be galvanised or brass. The old timers used to run a red hot bar through the bolt holes in oak structures, to char the wood and 'kill' the acid. Yes I would turn oak on my lathe if the situation arose. but I'd give it a specially good clean down immediatly afterwards.

Richard

rohart
07-02-2013, 05:05 PM
There are several of us here interested in Rose work. One question that comes up is whether Ornamental Turning is OT or not !

Do start a new thread. Your project is certainly worthy of it.

I think that nowadays the split is between those who use CNC and those who favour, let's call it the analogue approach. While I like messing with digital 2D stuff, I feel that the CNC approach to artistic turning is cheating a little. Unless it produces something sooo wayyy outtt that the mechanical approach just wouldn't cut it. And then some would say it's a challenge.

Black_Moons
07-02-2013, 06:05 PM
Intresting warning on oak.

Id like to note that the main problem with turning wood on a metal lathe would be green wood.
Green wood IS very damp, wet and full of sap. It loves to stick to everything and leave resin deposits that dry/bake on hard.

But well seasoned wood can be a pleasure on a lathe. Just keep lots of oil everywhere and clean it up as best you can. I do notice the wood dust float more and get into the motor a little more then metal.

Doozer
07-02-2013, 08:24 PM
While most wood will not rust metal,
I will tell you something that will.
Paper. Especially a white paper towel.
I once set a surface ground piece on a
paper towel, and a few days later, the
metal piece was stuck to the paper
towel, they were just rusted together.
I believe paper has an acid left in it
from the pulp manufacturing process.

--Doozer

Evan
07-02-2013, 09:48 PM
Paper no longer contains acid. Acid based pulp was shut down for recycling reasons.


While I like messing with digital 2D stuff, I feel that the CNC approach to artistic turning is cheating a little.

Not if you design and build the CNC machine. http://ixian.ca/pics10/biggrin.gif

john hobdeclipe
07-02-2013, 10:21 PM
I've turned wood on my metal lathe, to a very limited extent. The thing that bothered me about it was not corrosion but the dust getting into places where I don't like it to be, and soaking up way oil and leaving me with dry ways. The sanding dust is especially worrisome.

I think I may have mentioned this in another similar thread. I made 4 hard maple rolling pins on my good metal lathe, and decided not to do it again. Since I realized that I have a market for my rolling pins, I bought a well worn Craftsman 10 X 36 lathe, circa 1953, and devoted that to rolling pin turning. Nonetheless, I do a good bit of wood machining on my milling machine. I don't especially like doing it, but it works best so I do it.

Yes, oak has a lot of acid in it, and will cause corrosion if left in contact with steel or cast iron for any length of time. This was pounded into our heads when I was taking furniture production courses: NEVER leave oak sitting on or in a machine overnight...even kiln dried stock.


There are several of us here interested in Rose work. One question that comes up is whether Ornamental Turning is OT or not !
I think that the ornamental turning may or may not be considered "off topic," but the designing and building of the equipment most certainly is machining related. So bring it on!


A rose engine is on my list of things to build if I can just stay alive long enough.
From what I've read in your recent thread about your health, I think the consensus is that you need to live forever. So get on with it. I'd love to see your version of a rose engine.

New member chesspy, where are you located?

darryl
07-03-2013, 02:22 AM
Of course it belongs- it's machining after all. You use the same controls and they do the same thing, positioning the cutter. If you're still in doubt, think about what you're doing when you run a machine under computer numerical control. The computerized part is further away from machining than the mechanical control method used in ornamental turning.

I keep a vacuum handy in the shop for cleanup of any and all materials around the lathe and mill. This one is a 'head' that is made to clamp to a bucket with wheels. I made a taller bucket to set the head onto so it can suck in more debris before I have to empty it.

elf
07-03-2013, 03:08 AM
Even more sacrilegious, I turned steel on my wood lathe (with handheld tools) :)

Doozer
07-03-2013, 07:17 AM
...And soup no longer contains sodium for health reasons.


--Doozer

DR
07-03-2013, 07:54 AM
There are several of us here interested in Rose work. One question that comes up is whether Ornamental Turning is OT or not !

Do start a new thread. Your project is certainly worthy of it.

I think that nowadays the split is between those who use CNC and those who favour, let's call it the analogue approach. While I like messing with digital 2D stuff, I feel that the CNC approach to artistic turning is cheating a little. Unless it produces something sooo wayyy outtt that the mechanical approach just wouldn't cut it. And then some would say it's a challenge.


Recent inroads of CNC into ornamental turning already seems to have dampened enthusiasm for the craft (among the non-CNC crowd, that is). Note the drop off in postings on the OTI site.

IMO, CNC in OT is not a bad thing though. A good deal of recent mechanically done OT work I've seen is something only others involved in the craft could appreciate because they know how tediously difficult it was to do. Cut, repeat, cut, repeat and on and on, with never a misstep. Pleasing designs didn't appear to be a prerequisite. With CNC the tedium can be eliminated and maybe good design will be a larger factor.

cameron
07-03-2013, 08:30 AM
[QUOTE=darryl;860680]Of course it belongs- it's machining after all. You use the same controls and they do the same thing, positioning the cutter. If you're still in doubt, think about what you're doing when you run a machine under computer numerical control. The computerized part is further away from machining than the mechanical control method used in ornamental turning.

This mention of CNC in ornamental turning rather begs the question "Why do ornamental turning?"

It seems to me the fascination with ornamental turning lies in the process and all the complications and elaborations of the mechanical devices used in the process.

I've never seen a product of ornamental turning that I wouldn't want to get rid of at the next garage sale. Substitute CNC for the traditional process, then what's the point?

ed_h
07-03-2013, 01:42 PM
Just beware of oak. it contains oxalic acid, and will corrode metal.

There may be some confusion here about oak and iron or steel. Some oaks contain tannins, possibly including tannic acid that will react with iron or steel to form black stains on both the metal and the wood. Moisture is required, but could be supplied from condensation or possibly even just the moisture in the wood, given enough time. The effect is even used intentionally to produce "ebonized" oak.

One of the common remedies for removing the stain on the wood is Oxalic acid, a common wood bleach.

Oxalic acid is also sometimes prescribed for removing rust from steel.

So I'm not sure about the claim about Oxalic acid in oak, but would be interested in a citation for it.

Black_Moons
07-03-2013, 01:56 PM
Paper no longer contains acid. Acid based pulp was shut down for recycling reasons.
Not if you design and build the CNC machine. http://ixian.ca/pics10/biggrin.gif

Intresting, So how does that affect the life of paper?
I seem to recall that acid (from manufacturing processes) in the paper was one of the causes it deteriourated quickly with age.

Evan
07-03-2013, 03:32 PM
Paper lasts much longer without acid. It was the acid that was in paper that made it turn yellow and fragile. It no longer does that even after years. This even applies to ordinary newsprint since nearly all of it has a high recycled content. Newsprint is now made using mechanical pulping methods instead of the old Kraft method which is the acid pulping system. I have been to many pulp mills over the years in all parts of the operations. The entire paper making process at every level was a major part of my job. We were trained by visits to several different pulp and fine paper mills. It was also part of my job to service equipment at the mills in Quesnel. One is a photographic grade pulp mill that produces the highest pure white and completely contaminant free pulp. No plastic ropes allowed at any point in the logging to the mill property, no plastic cups or coffee cup stirrers, absolutely nothing that will not dissolve in the alkali lignin machines.

The other mill is the mechanical newsprint mill that uses no acids at all. It chops the chips to fine fibers and only alkali treatments are permitted. The finished products from both mills are from 7 to 7.5 pH.

Oh yeah, the mills don't stink much at all anymore.