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Dr Stan
08-20-2011, 02:14 AM
Since I took a new job that requires a 45 minute commute each day I'm seriously considering a VW Jetta TDI diesel. It's assembled in Mexico, but uses German made engines & trans-axles. If you have experience with these cars please let me know as I'm looking for something with excellent fuel economy and that will last at least 250K miles if properly maintained.

Thanks in advance.

Stan

CCWKen
08-20-2011, 02:37 AM
Great little car until you have to work on it. Most every part, except the very basic, is a "Dealer Only" item. Read that as EXPENSIVE. Look for the power door locks and electric windows to give trouble after a few years. If you get the manual transmission, keep an eye out for oil drips. If the rear main seal goes out or leaks, it takes the clutch with it. That's about a $2,000-$2,500 job that includes dropping the entire front power train assembly from the bottom.

But hey, you might drive it for years and change nothing but oil, filters and tires. :cool:

jnissen
08-20-2011, 03:21 AM
I'm considering the 2012 version that is being built in Chattanooga. Not the Jetta but the Passat. A very nice car. Much larger and still gets over 40MPG. Have several friends who drive the TDI's and they all like them. With fuel prices continuing to rise I think this is going to be a very high demand vehicle.

A.K. Boomer
08-20-2011, 08:07 AM
Like Ken stated - volkswagon has gotten away from their roots - far away.

You can't even run anything but dealer oil or you will destroy the camshaft in the TDI jetta,

besides a few quirks I like the older TDI jetta's - I don't like the new ones,

volkswagon used to mean "folkswagon" --- a car for the people - not anymore.

I think their overpriced and it does nothing but get worse when you need parts and/or service.

on the flip side - If I had to design a car that would get the biggest bang for the buck at the gas pump it would be a little turbo diesel - It's sad that Honda actually has diesels in most all their models but we can't get them in the U.S.:(

flylo
08-20-2011, 08:16 AM
No help I know,but I had 3 VW Rabbit Diesels & loved them 55MPG. Now a heavy 3/4ton HD 4x4 Dodge truck with a 5.9 Cummins 23MPG.

MrSleepy
08-20-2011, 08:29 AM
I have two passats... she who must be obeyed drives a 2009 new style .. and I drive a 2005 old shape one.
Neither have given any problem..and both deliver good fuel economy.

50-60 mpg is regular on long journeys and I have had over 70 mpg readout out of mine.

Rob

http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac180/MrSleepy123/Dash71mpg.jpg

A.K. Boomer
08-20-2011, 08:37 AM
Damn that's tough to beat - by the looks of your tach redline your sporting a diesel also but I was unaware that the passat's could achieve those kind of numbers - very impressive.

For the record we are talking a standard U.S. gallon right?


what liter engine? is it turbo'ed ?


In a way im getting the biggest bang for the buck that I ever had but it's not in fuel economy,
I just bought a little Del Sol V-tec and am hopping it up some without interfering with MPG's, I haven't had it on a long trip yet but im thinking between 35 and 40 mpg's of the most action packed driving iv done on four wheels - lots of fun but only room for two...

Weston Bye
08-20-2011, 08:54 AM
I don't know how many miles your commute is, so I will use my own commute as an example.
50 miles round trip, 240 days a year = 12000 miles.
At 20mpg (old car) that's 600 gallons a year.
At 29mpg (new car) that's 413 gallons a year.
The difference is 187 gallons and if the price of gasoline is $3.75, the new car is saving me $701.25 per year.

Big deal. If the old car was paid for and serviceable for the long term, the fuel savings, no matter what the fuel economy, wouldn't go far enough in justifying the cost of a new car. Now, if I needed (wanted:D ) a newer car for other reasons, the savings can be used to justify paying a little more for the more efficient car.

Run your own numbers.

wierdscience
08-20-2011, 09:01 AM
I got an Aunt and Uncle that have been diesel VW drivers for decades.The latest however was a Passat gas burner as at the time they bought it the diesel option was another $8,000.The cost per mile in savings just didn't make it worth it on a car they planned to keep six years.

A.K. Boomer
08-20-2011, 09:21 AM
WB that's all good if you just want to be a number cruncher and get to the bottom line of how it will impact your wallet - but some may argue that their are far bigger fish to fry with being more efficient - like actual lives saved from not having meddle in other parts of the world where we really don't belong - or like the side effects on the planet of burning the extra fuel in the first place - or even getting back to the wallet - the increased cost to everyone that is associated with higher demands...

Im just saying to maybe curb the minds that are on the fence - if it even comes close to breaking even then the choice is obvious,
were all in this massive "fish bowl" together and we all have to poop in the water - it's kinda like gluttony - if I see someone stuffing themselves just to see how big of a turd they can create I get kinda disgusted - I feel the same way when I see someone commuting 70 miles round trip alone in their hummer - and it's my right to have a negative opinion on that, because it's my fish bowl too goddddammit.

maybe someone doesn't like my mileage numbers - and you know what, if their overall impact is lower then they have the right to speak up about it.

rws
08-20-2011, 09:31 AM
"You can't even run anything but dealer oil or you will destroy the camshaft in the TDI jetta,"

I'm not sure how one can make a statement like that. What magical oil could the dealer have? So what does the warranty say? And why is everything a dealer job?

Granted, and many cars, the electronics can only be diagnosed by dealer instruments, but mechanics are mechanics.

MrSleepy
08-20-2011, 09:33 AM
Damn that's tough to beat - by the looks of your tach redline your sporting a diesel also but I was unaware that the passat's could achieve those kind of numbers - very impressive.

For the record we are talking a standard U.S. gallon right?


what liter engine? is it turbo'ed ?

The model is the 2004/5 Passat Highline 1.9 TDI ... in the UK on its slightly larger gallon....and driven like a nun on valium with everything turned off.(aircon etc).

It was done on a two hour run from Derby to Grimsby,which is fairly flat and mostly sea level..

Rob

MrSleepy
08-20-2011, 09:41 AM
"You can't even run anything but dealer oil or you will destroy the camshaft in the TDI jetta,"

I'm not sure how one can make a statement like that.

I can believe it... For my 1.9 TDI the oil is long life 5w40 VW505.01 spec suitable for the "Pumpe Duse" engine..

Very expensive from the dealer ,and $60 a gallon from cheaper alternatives. The VW/audi/seat/skoda forums have lots of anecdotal stories of destroyed engines using cheaper oils.

Rob

Weston Bye
08-20-2011, 09:59 AM
AK, I would enjoy being high minded about such things if I could afford it. Not only that, but I expect to get 10 years of service out of the car. Why, other than green considerations, would I drive a car for that length of time that I didn't particularly like? I am fortunate (maybe...) that I will be retiring in a few years. Then my environmental footprint will get smaller - As it is, I take every opportunity that presents itself to work at home and avoid the commute and avoid burning 1.75 gallons of gas.

There are those who are less fortunate, and have to get to work by any means possible. Sometimes that means driving a bargain gas-hog with the ongoing pay-at-the-pump penalty. The numbers work for them to survive, but in doing so it causes the greenies some apoplexy and anguish.

aboard_epsilon
08-20-2011, 10:03 AM
Plus all their diesels now have a catalyst..plus a device for holding some sort of magical mystery fluid...that periodically gets injected into the cat and burns the soot out of it.

So, your magical mystery fluid device adds to the cost of running it..that plus your expensive oil ..plus all manner of gizzmos and gadgets, plus those short lived expensive dual mass flywheel clutches that will fail along the way before you reach 50.000 miles ..the new breed aint anything like the old breed ...dont go by VW's laurels..that's what i say.

There was a test report the other day in the telegraph newspaper ..about running costs per mile ..taking into account purchase price depreciation, spares, servicing, insurance ..everything

interesting reading ...the all electric or hybrid cars faired the worse

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/columnists/mike-rutherford/8696300/Mr-Money-Pence-per-mile-is-what-matters-most-for-motorists.html

all the best.markj

wierdscience
08-20-2011, 10:08 AM
WB that's all good if you just want to be a number cruncher and get to the bottom line of how it will impact your wallet - but some may argue that their are far bigger fish to fry with being more efficient - like actual lives saved from not having meddle in other parts of the world where we really don't belong - or like the side effects on the planet of burning the extra fuel in the first place - or even getting back to the wallet - the increased cost to everyone that is associated with higher demands...

Im just saying to maybe curb the minds that are on the fence - if it even comes close to breaking even then the choice is obvious,
were all in this massive "fish bowl" together and we all have to poop in the water - it's kinda like gluttony - if I see someone stuffing themselves just to see how big of a turd they can create I get kinda disgusted - I feel the same way when I see someone commuting 70 miles round trip alone in their hummer - and it's my right to have a negative opinion on that, because it's my fish bowl too goddddammit.

maybe someone doesn't like my mileage numbers - and you know what, if their overall impact is lower then they have the right to speak up about it.

If you want bring religion into this then fine,I do walk to and from work everyday so I'll feel free to beat my chest on this part of the subject.

A gallon of gas vs a gallon of diesel which pollutes more?Simple answer they are more or less even when broken down to emissions per mile and the EPA says so.It is a simple dollars and cents math problem with no need to say 20 Hail Gore's to Gaia or buy holy indulgences through a carbon trading scam.

sasquatch
08-20-2011, 10:14 AM
My 85 year old friend has a diesel jetta, great mileage, but as stated the repairs are terribly costly.
His front wheel bearings just replaced at the dealers were like $420.00 bucks each!!
Can,t remember the price of the brake pads but they were certainly pricey too.:eek:

Good cars though.

ammcoman2
08-20-2011, 10:20 AM
Just two months ago I bought a 2011 Golf TDI mit 6 speed. Fun to drive factor was much better with this combination than the 5 cyl. gas engine and 5speed. By the way it was made in Germany.

At 130km/hr (80mph) the revs are at 2000 compared to my previous Passat's 3000 (also 6sp manual). Took a while to get get used to the high gearing and the very low revs this engine is comfortable running at, but now I am a happy convert.

Have to admit that I peek at the fuel consumption screen quite a lot. On a recent trip of about 350km, cruising at about 120kph, resulted in a fuel consumption number of 5.6litres/100k. This car's fuel consumption is more sensitive to speed than the Passat's. Maybe the shorter length has a higher Cd.

Geoff

ammcoman2
08-20-2011, 10:22 AM
No mystery fluid in my car. I gather that the Mercedes diesels do have a urea dispensing bottle.

Geoff

aboard_epsilon
08-20-2011, 10:34 AM
No mystery fluid in my car. I gather that the Mercedes diesels do have a urea dispensing bottle.

Geoff

just looked up ..the vws are the cars that dont have the system ...and not the cars that have it

my bad ..sorry

all the best.markj

Abner
08-20-2011, 11:12 AM
I have an 06'TDI.

Likes
fuel economy - 42 mpg actual not the 'liar gauge'.
comfort - the thing has leg room,I'm 6' 5".
pep - Seriously, 100 hp roller skate. I..ah..heard they handle well at 110 mph:)
braking - OMG, seriously, the thing stops yesterday if you anchor it.
The opening between the rear seat into the trunk - That occasional need for a 10' piece of pipe or my fishing pole.
Hooks for holding shopping bags vertical in the trunk.
The flat tire jack works exceeding well.

Dislikes -

I severely dislike that the oil changes are a dealer only option -they have a special oil that only they sell and if you don't use it you will fry your motor. Last one was $70.00. If I were to sell mine this will be the only reason.

I had to replace a fuel filter once, I blame my home tank for that one.

Other than that I have almost 70,000 on the thing and have never had any work done or any issues. I have heard they are expensive to work on.

If I were looking for fuel economy - look at the toyota yaris. I think staying away from any engine that needs a special oil is smart

vpt
08-20-2011, 11:17 AM
Every VW I have worked on was a nightmare. Piss poor engineering with absolutely everything! Expensive parts. I have yet to see an advantage to any of them.

I turn down VW's now, refuse to work on them, I would rather work on a nissan any day and I'm not saying nissans are wonderful to work on either.

HWooldridge
08-20-2011, 11:42 AM
We are looking at a new car for my wife and the Mazda guy told us they are going to start importing an SUV with a Mazda diesel in CY2012 that is rated at 48-50. That does nothing for you right now but it looks like most makers are getting on the bandwagon due to high fuel prices.

vpt
08-20-2011, 11:52 AM
1988-1991 honda CRX HF's are rated 50mpg. We have came such a long ways since then...

RandyZ
08-20-2011, 11:57 AM
I've heard that, with a VW, if you disconnect the battery or let it go dead, you have to go to the dealer to get the radio re-programmed to work. That's just not right. It has nothing to do with the operation of the vehicle and is just a money grab.

vpt
08-20-2011, 12:01 PM
I've heard that, with a VW, if you disconnect the battery or let it go dead, you have to go to the dealer to get the radio re-programmed to work. That's just not right. It has nothing to do with the operation of the vehicle and is just a money grab.


Same as leaving the gas cap off your chevy... None of them care about being a good vehicle any more, its all about the money!

John Stevenson
08-20-2011, 12:14 PM
Last 4 vehicles we have had have had Peugeot Diesel engines, no problems with any of them.

And only two of them has been a Peugeot, other 2 were Citroen 1.9D [ 70 mpg ], Fiat 2.5D van [ 33mpg]
The Peugeot's are Peugeot 1.9 D Turbo [ 41 mpg ] and Boxer van 2.5D [34 mpg ]

Not sure what the next vehicle will be but it will have a Peugeot diesel.

MrSleepy
08-20-2011, 12:24 PM
I've heard that, with a VW, if you disconnect the battery or let it go dead, you have to go to the dealer to get the radio re-programmed to work. That's just not right. It has nothing to do with the operation of the vehicle and is just a money grab.

The VW (blaupunct,philips or panasonic etc)radio is code protected to stop thieves from stealing it..

It is a 4 digit code ....and that comes within the car info pack...no need to go to the dealer..

And every car I've had since 1985 has had the same setup.

Rob

boslab
08-20-2011, 01:00 PM
i have 2 audis, an A4 and an old 80, they all use the same engine, in this case the 1.9l TDI, the millage is as the other posts indicate, it was even fitted to my old A6 till i sold it to buy a van for work [the A6 was getting ruined parked in the steelplant, ****e all over it an it was a big car to clean!.
the a4 1.9 tdi is the same as the vw 1.9tdi as they are the same company VAG over here, the passat cam belt is a bit of a bugger to change as the rad has to come out to render the car in the 'service condition' as the manual puts it, so theres the air con rad to remove also, this is easily done without disconnecting the gas lines [thankfully]. my old 80 has done 1/2 million miles on the same engine, the gas millage is still 48/55 without difficulty.
well engineered contrary to the opinion of a previous post, most have difficulty working on them are simply dooing it the hard way[i can do both me!] once you get inside the engineers head it all makes sense, it is like the manuals very thurough to the last nut and bolt [reasonable quality by the way.
love them but i'm getting rid of my VW van to replace it with a UNIMOG asap, even cheaper to run over here, red diesel, no road tax, no MOT test [exempt] 28 gears abot 8 reverse and will leave a landrover waist deep in mud [not that i dislike landrover, i work for TATA!]
regards
mark

John Stevenson
08-20-2011, 01:16 PM
How come a Unimog can run on red ?

Davidhcnc
08-20-2011, 01:16 PM
I am not understanding the dealer only oil change claim.

My 2007 VW caddy van, 1.9TDi. There is a sticker on my engine recomending castrol and a bottle of castrol something came with it for top up.

The book that comes with the car/van has the oil spec in it. You go to the carparts place and look for oil with that number and a trusted name like mobil, castrol, whatever on the pack.

You buy the oil and put it in the engine.

Then you drive:rolleyes:

VW's are good, I am a long term user and would call them a reliable, ecomomical and long life option. just remember that everything you see in the dealership, the orange juice, the girl with the fake tan, perfume boy, etc, has to be paid for by the people......so if you can live without the orange juice and a chat with the bird then you would be better changing the oil yourself!

Timleech
08-20-2011, 01:23 PM
The VW (blaupunct,philips or panasonic etc)radio is code protected to stop thieves from stealing it..

It is a 4 digit code ....and that comes within the car info pack...no need to go to the dealer..

And every car I've had since 1985 has had the same setup.

Rob

Even my wife's basic old Ford Fiesta has that on the radio. We never had the code, lost the use of the radio when fitting a new battery, local garage managed to crack the code for us.

I'm on my fifth passat estate, first two petrol, rest diesel. All except most recent were bought at about 5 years old, & then run into the ground (I use them as a carry-everything van as well as carrying the family). Last one went at 12 years old, about 240K miles, final decision to replace was because it needed expensive work on the front suspension - they do have a complex front suspension. I sold it for just above scrap, but I think the guy actually fixed it up.

Latest one is 8 years old with 120K miles on the clock.
Drove to Germany & back a couple of weeks ago, about 1400 miles at an average according to the trip computer of about 54 mpg (imperial gallons), that's with three and four adults, a roof box & a load of gear, average speed over the whole distance was nearly 60 mph.
I've never had 'dealer oil' in mine, just good quality oil to their spec (semi-synthetic I think). If you go into the car accessory shops here, they sell a range of different 'makers spec' oils under oil company brands, it's not just VW who have very tight requirements.

Some of the newer ones have gimmicks like electric handbrakes, they seem to be a bit of a nightmare judging by a friend's comments, though maybe they have it sorted by now.

Tim

Allan Waterfall
08-20-2011, 01:40 PM
Some of the newer ones have gimmicks like electric handbrakes, they seem to be a bit of a nightmare judging by a friend's comments, though maybe they have it sorted by now.

Tim Electric handbrakes are no fun at all when you're 100 miles from home at 6.00pm on a Sunday evening and the handbrake is stuck on.

Thank god for Green Flag recovery.

The cure is to disconnect the battery for five minutes or so and everything resets.It happens every time the battery voltage falls below a certain level,especially if the battery is getting ready for renewal.Happens more frequently in winter as well.
I ended up buying a new battery.

Allan

Dr Stan
08-20-2011, 01:47 PM
Wow, a bunch of responses in a short period of time.

Thanks everyone.

Glad the oil spec came up. A friend of mine has a gas powered bug which also required VW oil to maintain the warranty. So when I test drove the Jetta I checked on the oil changes and was told:

1) The dealer will change the oil & filter for free for the first 36,000 miles

2) The one I drove is a 2012 model and molded into the fill cap is the Castrol spec for the oil. My guess is that VW was catching too much crap about their VW only oil mandate.

Had been considering a manual, but the boss wants an auto, so I should not have the clutch issues.

As to reasons, fuel mileage is one. In addition it is front wheel drive so its better in bad weather than my Dakota and would be cheaper to drive on long trips. The longevity is another as I's rather not run the wheels off my truck so soon.

Stan

precisionmetal
08-20-2011, 02:25 PM
If someone drives a LOT of miles, the fuel savings on the super high mileage VWs might be worth it.

However... I don't drive all that many miles, so I recently picked up a very clean '83 Mercedes turbo diesel. 200,000 miles on the clock. One owner. Runs like it was brand new, and gets around 30mpg on the freeway. It was under $3k.

Easy to work on and maintain, parts are inexpensive, and it has no seat belt buzzer or other nuisance "warning" devices of modern cars. Very, very happy with it. Many stories of these cars going half a million miles with proper maintenance.

:)

mike os
08-20-2011, 03:01 PM
I had one... & liked it enough to buy a second one to replace the van

both passat tdi, both do 50mpg+ one has over 100k already & is indistinguishable from teh newer car to drive

the oil is bull****.. any oil matching the spec is fine... if you use the long service spec then you need a very high quality oil...
main dealer servicing is always a rip off even with a pos like ford.
They rarely break anything.....at all

2 faults on mine since I have had them:-

exhaust sensor failed on one at 55k cost £10.50 inc labour... man that really hurt,

Slave cylinder on the clutch went at 99k £180..... the rest is just servicing & "running costs"... brakes timing belts etc.

Sounds more like you guys are just being bull****ted and robbed blind by your dealers to me

CCWKen
08-20-2011, 03:22 PM
...I have had over 70 mpg readout out of mine.
http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac180/MrSleepy123/Dash71mpg.jpg
Hell, that don't count. It's idling with the parking brake on. :rolleyes: Let me know when you get to that 71.3 miles in your driveway then check the millage. :D

Timleech
08-20-2011, 03:26 PM
A friend of mine worked for Bentleys (and RR before they were sold off & split), the recent models are VW designed and they have a sensor which alerts you (stops the engine?) if the wrong oil is in the sump. I don't know whether that's also used on any VW cars?

Tim

john11668
08-20-2011, 03:33 PM
I have had VW for about 15 years now.
Recent models use fully synthetic oil but the sevice interval can be variable with this stuff and may even be 16-18000 miles depending on the type of running. The stuff is available at car parts stores though

The different engine options is a bit of a puzzle to the uninitiated. 1.9 and 2 litre are grossly different and the 2L is usually sold with a six speed manual box at 140bhp and it is a pocket rocket in the golf ( available up 170 bhp in some models) and cos they are light low inertia engines they will show a clean pair of heels to many of your ordinary six litre gas guzzlers.

My daughter was working in California (Edwards AFB) and at that time Arnie would not allow oilburners into the state so she got one of these.
http://www.scottlewisonline.com/images/vw_gli_sample.jpg
200 hp, 6 speed dsg gearbox (brilliant), and all the bells and whistles ( all leased by her employer)
Service costs were $50 (5000miles) compared with our typical £200 over here.
Clearly our German made models may be better put together than your Mexican stuff but it should be the same kit and reliability should not be a worry for 100K miles ( 200K plus should not be a problem on freeway running)
but do go for a six speed.

With a six speed manual it can become a bit of a game ! Not to see how fast it will go but how many miles on a tankfull?
Certainly 60 mpg (imp gal) is not a problem over here and seeing that you guys get your fuel at give away prices compared to our £1.40 per litre which equates to $8 per usgal, you should have no cause for disappointment

MrSleepy
08-20-2011, 03:35 PM
Hell, that don't count. It's idling with the parking brake on. :rolleyes: Let me know when you get to that 71.3 miles in your driveway then check the millage. :D

It was at 73mpg when I pulled up ...71 mpg by the time I'd ran into the house to get my camera and back...

Rob

MrSleepy
08-20-2011, 04:05 PM
I have had VW for about 15 years now.
Recent models use fully synthetic oil but the sevice interval can be variable with this stuff and may even be 16-18000 miles depending on the type of running. The stuff is available at car parts stores though
When I was having my Passat TDI serviced at the dealer (to maintain the warranty)..they used Quantum (a VW branded) 0w30 oil.

After it came out of warranty I have used Halford 5w40 oil as it is certified for the "Pumpe Duse" TDI engines...It also has the marker which allows the longlife servicing aspect to work. And a Oil reset box was a tenner of Ebay.

http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac180/MrSleepy123/VWOil.jpg
Rob

Willy
08-20-2011, 05:02 PM
Regarding VW spec oils, there are currently about 25 oils that meet the various VW specs.
Don't fall prey to the dealers' insistence that you only have it serviced at their facility under the fear of dire consequences if you don't.
Unfortunately this is a game most new car dealers play to an unsuspecting audience.

VW chooses to use it's own specs, but that does not mean that they are the only supplier of oils that meet those specs.
Just as Cummins, Cat, Detroit Diesel, etc., etc. have their own specs. Most ATFs' and gear lubes have unique specs from the various OEMs as well and it is up to the end user to find and use a lubricant that meets the various requirements.

Don't be hood-winked into this fallacy. As long as you have some documentation as to the oil you are using meets VWs' specs, and you maintain it according to their maintenance schedule, their warranty cannot be denied.

flutedchamber
08-20-2011, 05:19 PM
I had an 89 diesel Rabbit 1.5. 54 MPG, redline at 5400. It would do 87 mph all day and never hit the governor.

Gravy
08-20-2011, 05:25 PM
[QUOTE=Willy]Regarding VW spec oils, there are currently about 25 oils that meet the various VW specs./QUOTE]

This is true, BUT most of them are not available in the US. The few that are can be very difficult to find. My boss has a Pumpe Duse TDI Passat. The only local place that actually had the proper spec oil was the VW dealer. None of the parts stores even had a listing for any of the oils that meet the spec. I would have had to order online.

Willy
08-20-2011, 05:47 PM
Pennzoil, Mobil, Castrol, Kendall, and Quaker State all make VW compatible oils.
If your local dealer for these products don't stock it locally they can order it for you. In that event you will have buy the case, not just a quart.
I agree it is a limited market so all suppliers do not necessarily carry every product application but it is available, you just have to plan ahead.
Or run to the dealer and pay the going rate. Irregardless it should be the last reason not to buy a car.

flutedchamber
08-20-2011, 05:55 PM
Order Amsoil by the case like I do. They have oils that meet VW specs.

Gravy
08-20-2011, 06:09 PM
I like to keep my life simple, so I'm not inclined to own a car that can't use commonly available fluids.

dneufell
08-20-2011, 10:41 PM
Weston-bye......I love your numbers! My Dad showed me
that kind of thinking when I was a teenager....He then said
how much do you think it costs for a hospital emergency visit.....I drove big ass Cadillac's growing up!!! :) Dean

Black_Moons
08-20-2011, 11:00 PM
Hmm, I wonder about fuel alone over the 'life' of a car.
Assuming 200,000km or 120,000miles before a car is retired (though iv seen plenty of cars over that, im sure plenty die is crashs and such before that too)

20mpg verus 40mpg verus 50mpg = 6000 or 3000 or 2400 gallons for a cars lifetime. Hmm, Thought it would be more.
at $5 a gallon, thats $30,000 verus $15,000 verus $12,000

$15,000 is a pertty signifigant savings. Though the diffrence been 40mpg and 50mpg is pertty slim at only $3000.

Of course, I'll note that over the 200,000km life of a car, it would be likey to spend a good fraction of that fuel cost in maintence alone, and cars could cost much more in maintence then fuel if you pick the wrong car.

danlb
08-20-2011, 11:28 PM
The depreciation is also a major player when looking at which model to buy (if you are more concerned with finances than drivability, comfort, ecology, etc). A car that cost $3,000 more to buy may also sell for $3,000 more when you get rid of it. In those cases the other costs come to the fore.

The problem with any new model or new technology is that you can not predict the depreciation until it's been on the road a while.

When figuring gas savings, one should note that for commuters, a 120,000 miles may only be 4 years. Assuming the car is well designed one can easily drive it a lot longer, with the commensurate increase in gas savings.

In some metropolitan areas commuting is also the worlds worst environment for fuel economy. When you spend 45 minutes in stop and go driving your 40 mpg car may get only 10 mpg for that 10 mile stretch. If that is your daily commute, it really hits your real mileage.

Dan

Black_Moons
08-20-2011, 11:37 PM
When figuring gas savings, one should note that for commuters, a 120,000 miles may only be 4 years. Assuming the car is well designed one can easily drive it a lot longer, with the commensurate increase in gas savings.

In some metropolitan areas commuting is also the worlds worst environment for fuel economy. When you spend 45 minutes in stop and go driving your 40 mpg car may get only 10 mpg for that 10 mile stretch. If that is your daily commute, it really hits your real mileage.

Dan

Thats a good point, a 20 mpg car may end up using a lot more then 120,000/20mpg fuel in its lifetime, due to actualy getting much less on average in the city.

Dr Stan
08-20-2011, 11:40 PM
In some metropolitan areas commuting is also the worlds worst environment for fuel economy. When you spend 45 minutes in stop and go driving your 40 mpg car may get only 10 mpg for that 10 mile stretch. If that is your daily commute, it really hits your real mileage.

Dan

My case is unusual in that 98% of the trip is on 4 lane highways, so I will do very well on the high fuel economy. As previously stated a couple of other reasons are the front wheel drive's superior handling in bad weather and the longevity of the TDI's.

A.K. Boomer
08-21-2011, 12:51 AM
1988-1991 honda CRX HF's are rated 50mpg. We have came such a long ways since then...


actually 56 mpg's --- not bad for a gas engine...

A.K. Boomer
08-21-2011, 01:06 AM
At 130km/hr (80mph) the revs are at 2000 compared to my previous Passat's 3000 (also 6sp manual). Took a while to get get used to the high gearing and the very low revs this engine is comfortable running at, but now I am a happy convert.
Geoff


Whoew,,, that's an unbelievable ratio, what a tractor... there's definitely efficiency gains within there as long as the engine has enough balls to pull it off torque wise.

john11668
08-21-2011, 08:18 AM
It was at 73mpg when I pulled up ...71 mpg by the time I'd ran into the house to get my camera and back...

Rob

So you play the milage game too!

It is great to have blistering performance at times
but at $8 a gallon you would all be wanting a TDI

john11668
08-21-2011, 08:26 AM
When I was having my Passat TDI serviced at the dealer (to maintain the warranty)..they used Quantum (a VW branded) 0w30 oil.

After it came out of warranty I have used Halford 5w40 oil as it is certified for the "Pumpe Duse" TDI engines...It also has the marker which allows the longlife servicing aspect to work. And a Oil reset box was a tenner of Ebay.

http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac180/MrSleepy123/VWOil.jpg
Rob

I use Halfords if I ever have to top up ( as is likely if you get 16K between services)
Under EU regs you do not have to use a main dealer for servicing but you do have to for warranty work. I have used them for convenience .
Once the vehicle is out of warranty and starts to need parts I go elsewhere.

Have you a link for the oil reset box

boslab
08-21-2011, 08:44 AM
How come a Unimog can run on red ?
they have agricultural exemption,[as well as the 3 point linkage at the back] you are exempt from road tax, can use red diesel, exempt from mot test and the insurance from the farmers union shop down the road is £200, 250 with the legal/etc/etc, looking for one with a three way tip and hiab myself, a mate of mine has one and its great, not that slow at about 55 max but 55 offroad too![terrain dependant]
regards
mark
[dont think the agricultural exemption will wash if your in the middle of london though!, but ok in the sticks down here]
regards
mark
sorry i didnt clearly state that legally they are considered to be 'tractors' and therfore exempt
mark

MrSleepy
08-21-2011, 08:53 AM
Have you a link for the oil reset box

I didnt buy mine from this seller...but mine does look identical to the one on offer..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUDI-VW-SEAT-SKODA-Oil-Service-OBD2-Reset-Tool-/170441592008?pt=UK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item27af1c4cc8

Rob

MrSleepy
08-21-2011, 09:02 AM
I use Halfords

If you go to Halfords and give them you registration plate number they will tell you the part numbers for spares..

But for my 2005 passat...the guy was trying to sell me a Champion C150 screw on cartridge filter...when I new damn well it needs a paper element filter that you fit from the topside of the engine.

Rob

A.K. Boomer
08-21-2011, 10:41 AM
What magical oil could the dealer have? So what does the warranty say?


I was going off of what my bro told me - he has a TDI jetta and was told by the dealer that he would void his warranty if he ran anything other than dealer oil,

Not all oils are created equal - some have much higher levels of Zinc dithiophosphate for camshaft and rocker/lifter protection - and some don't.

some also have Molybdenum disulfide for extreme pressures...

be it whether it's true about the specific dealer oil or not is irrelevant --- there's so many factors as to why I won't even work on one anymore (unless im physically hungry :p )

For one I have never seen such crap under the hood of a car than the recent german stuff - I have never seen such an extensive use of plastics - and im not talking good plastics - im talking plastics that are brittle after just a short period of time,
Im also not impressed with the engineering - it's the typical type of over-engineered garbage that I seen on Mercedes years before - After being in the biz as long as I have you can spot things upon disassembly where it becomes quite obvious as to what they are trying to do - they are trying to force people to take their cars back to the dealer where specific tools are needed for "proper" disassembly --- as a mechanic I am burnt out on that type of mentality - if I was to buy every specific tool needed to work on different pieces of booby-trapped crap then there would be nothing left over for me to feed my face with,
They are not practical anymore - and I like practical, typically the Japanese do not pull these kinda stunts with me - I get by on just the most basic hand tools and do not own one special specific tool of any kind (that I can think of at the moment)

The last volkswagon I had in my shop I had to get the customers help from above just to change his serpentine drive belt on his passat --- I paid him a labor rate to help me and deducted it from his bill:rolleyes:

Keep in mind that this rant is just coming from a knuckle busting guy who has to take care of business when things go wrong - so if you drill teeth for a living and just want someone else to take care of the abortion that you drive then it's not going to matter as much to you,
but it matters to me what I work on - and although I know im just one small fish I like to send a message to the people around the globe that build cars and that message is that I have curbed people's minds who ask me questions on what to buy - although not drastic - I have either created or cost you sales on your product - some of you have been rewarded yet when I see intentional re-routing of engineering just for the sheer sake of creating a more difficult time for a service technician then the gloves come off ------ and the end result is dozens of car sales lost over the years just because of one guys opinion, that's how I get back at hillbilly engineering - actually it's not even that,,, I can put up with hillbillies that just don't know any better and correct their problems - what I won't deal with is hillbillies that intentionally sabotage their products...

I love the concept of a little turbo diesel in a small car - I hate the limited options that the U.S. has at the moment but hopefully this will change soon...:cool:

Mark Hockett
08-21-2011, 09:27 PM
DR Stan,
Here's my opinion on VW's. I should qualify that I currently work at a high volume import repair facility, am a VW certified tech, ASE Master tech, certified in too many things to list here, and have been doing this for over 30 years. Our parking lot is full of VW's every day so they are not something we work on infrequently.

For starters you can discount the opinion of anyone from the other side of the pond. Over there their opinions would matter but in the US we are handicapped by poor quality diesel fuel, Europe has much higher quality diesel fuel. This is a huge problem with some TDI's as they will completely plug the intake manifold or partially carbon up the intake causing a no start condition. We see this about once a month and the repair is very expensive as we have to send the manifold out for cleaning, the soot ruins our parts washer solution and we would have to have a company come out and remove the solution if we did the cleaning in house. The cleaning alone cost $300 plus about $500 in labor for the repair. The other major problem we see on the older TDI's is injector pump failure. Usually this is caused by people running Bio Diesel but not all the time. We live in an area populated by greenies so Bio Diesel is very popular, they sell it at the gas station. This repair runs $1800. If you run Bio Diesel in the Pumpe Duse engine it destroys the entire cylinder head which costs about $5500 to repair. I'm sure the Common rail system is not Bio Diesel compatible either.

Most are correct about the engine oil, you need to run the 505.01 spec oil. This can be difficult to find in some places. We buy it in 55 gallon drums. The reason you need this oil is VW's have a piss poor crankcase ventilation system. The 505.01 oil can deal with moisture in the crankcase better than other oils. Moisture will condensate at the highest point in the engine. This high point is where the VW breather is. If you live where there is humidity this is a problem, if you live in AZ probably not. If you pull the breather it will look like a car with a blown head gasket. After a while the sludge in the breather will solidify and fall down into the oil pan where it will plug up the oil pump pick-up. We see this at least once a month. Normally if the customer is paying attention and catches it early we can pull the oil pan and clean it out before the engine scatters. These cars are usually the ones that have been going to Jiffy Lube for maintenance their entire life. I should also mention that if you get an automatic transmission that oil will be dealer only and fairly expensive. Also the engine coolant is not easy to find. You need to use the VW/ Audi or Pentosin G12. Put Prestone in and you will be buying a water pump.

The most common problems we see with VW are Check Engine lights. These usually start at about 60,000 miles. There are a bunch of pattern problems that we see, coolant temp sensors, EVAP leaks, secondary air problems, air mass meters, O2 sensors, but the worst one is Cat efficiency codes which require replacing the Cat or Cats for up to $3500. We work on a lot of Japanese and German vehicles and all I can say is the German computer control systems are the least reliable out of the two by a long shot. And unfortunately every system in a VW is completely computer controlled and networks with a CAN (controller area network) system. This means if you want to fix the wipers, power windows, climate control, key-less entry, you better have a VW scan tool. An example of how bad the electronic systems are on a VW is every month or two we get a VW towed in that wonít start. The customer drove on the ferry to get to our island, shut the car off, locked the door and left the car. When they get back and try to start it, it wonít start. What happens is the rotating code in the alarm was tripped up by another VW on the ferry so now the inhibitor is activated and the car wonít start. It is fairly difficult to fix this problem as we have to have a guy in Canada that has the software recode it over the Internet. We never see this problem with Toyota's or Honda's.

We also replace about 5-8 oil pans a year as they are made with cast aluminum and sit very low to the ground. We replace about 10-15 driver side window regulators a year as they are built very poorly. We replace about 8-12 front wheel bearings a year and tons of ball joints, tie rod ends and suspension components.

The average repair bill for a VW in our shop is about $1500 for vehicles in the 100,000 mile range and the highest one this year was $15,500 for a twin turbo Audi A6 (Passat). The Cats plugged up taking out the turbos and the cylinders heads and the suspension control died. We repaired a headlight last week on a HID system and it was $600 for the bulb and high voltage transformer.

The next thing you should research is the maintenance cost for the VW. Although VW will cover maintenance for 36,000 miles, itís after that when it gets expensive. The cost to replace a timing belt on the TDI alone will make you cringe. Then you need to add the high cost of engine and trans oils, filters, and all the other stuff. They even want you to replace the entire $6 engine oil drain plug, not just the washer on every oil change, which we do.
One thing to keep in mind though is you probably won't have to worry about high mileage maintenance as we never see these cars make it much past 150,000. The typical scenario is they start to have problems at around 60k-80k. By 100K they are in the shop at least once a month for a cost that was more than the monthly payment was. And then the owners get so frustrated they sell the car to some poor fool that will let it die from there. We always tell the owners to sell them off the island so we don't have to work on them anymore. In the last 6 months we have had three, 150K to 180k VW's that needed so much work they just towed them to the wrecking yard.

All that being said they are very nice cars to drive, roomy, comfortable, and quiet and have decent power. If I were buying one, which would never happen, I would keep it for 60K and sell it while it still has value. Then go buy another one and that way you will probably never see the shop for repairs. But if it were me I would buy a Honda Or Toyota. In our shop they have the lowest cost per repair order of any vehicle we work on. The average 200K Toyota will be more reliable than the average 100K VW. Some of the small Toyota's and Honda's will get very high fuel mileage and if you factor in the repair and maintenance cost will be way cheaper to own over the service life. My wife has a 2005 Acura RSX (Honda Civic) that gets 35 MPG. The vehicle has 80K on it and all I have done is change the oil every 10K (recommended service interval) and the air filter twice. The first tune-up is over 100K and there is no timing belt. The nice thing about that car is the oil change and the filters are easy, unlike a VW that requires you to remove the splash panels from the underside of the vehicle to change the oil and the air filter can be near impossible to replace on many of them. So in 80K miles I have less than $200 in maintenance cost, that won't cover one trip to the VW dealer after the free maintenance is done.

Another area you should look at is wear items like brake pads. On European vehicles they are designed so that the brake pads and rotors wear out at the same interval. So every brake job you will need to replace the brake pads and rotors. Also if the vehicle is equipped with the electronic parking brake you might have a hard time finding an independent shop that will work on it which means taking to the dealer.


I would highly recommend calling some import repair shops and ask for their opinions on VW. I can tell you that every mechanic in our shop has the same opinion that I do. Donít call VW specific shops as they will want you to buy one so they can get your business. Also get the actual maintenance costs for the vehicle up to 150K from the dealer. Then I would do the same for other vehicles and compare them. They usually have the menus so it is easy for them to quote it. You can probably find service menus online that quote prices but remember those just get you in the door and the actual out the door price will be more. I would also go on this web site and look around,
http://www.myvwlemon.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Passat&number=2&DaysPrune=1000&LastLogin=


This just scratches the surface about the reliability of these vehicles, I could go on for hours about the problems we see.

danlb
08-21-2011, 09:51 PM
Wow.

Daniel

Doozer
08-21-2011, 10:40 PM
Another poster mentioned big cars. Yes they are much safer. I always have had Lincolns. From the 1970 Lincolns to my current 1997 Town Car. I drive 80 miles round trip per day and I get 23.3 mpg with my 4.6L v8. For the safety it affords me, I like the compromise for the OK mileage I get. Some of these small cars, you might as well ride a motorcycle. People don't think about safe cars, just mileage. They will say "5 star crash rating" or "it has 7 air bags". So what. Physics says bigger is safer. I will put my 4000+ pound car against any 4 cyl car. I will fare better.
The engine is giving me trouble in my 53 International harvester pickup. I have been thinking to look for a Mercedes turbo diesel with a manual behind it for a transplant. Should make it an economical and useful truck.
--Doozer

Metalmelter
08-21-2011, 11:08 PM
I have the 2004 TDI Jetta. Some will say they last forever and others say they just fall apart. The only thing I've done is replace the EGR radiator ($400) and wheel bearings in 267,000 miles:) Besides the normal maintenance I'd buy another. Mine has the PD (BEW) engine. Fuel injection pressure run up to 20,000 psi. the newer ones are even more. My little trick - I run a half tank tank of biodiesel about 2 or 3 times a year. Cleans the system out nicely and makes it run smooth ;)

HWooldridge
08-21-2011, 11:10 PM
This kind of info, from people in the business, needs to be put in front of VW execs and engineers. You would think they already know they're building crap but you never know. We just bought a new Mazda CX-7 for my wife and I have to say we have never been treated better at any car dealer, regardless of OEM. All carmakers will produce a lemon once in a while but the Japanese still seem to do better than average in most categories - although I've owned 7 Ford trucks and all were great vehicles that went many miles with few issues. My 1985 F150 with 302ci engine had 290K miles when I traded it; my current 97 Ford with a 460ci has 210K and is my daily driver (I also change oil at 3,000 miles).

Black_Moons
08-21-2011, 11:24 PM
Another poster mentioned big cars. Yes they are much safer. I always have had Lincolns. From the 1970 Lincolns to my current 1997 Town Car. I drive 80 miles round trip per day and I get 23.3 mpg with my 4.6L v8. For the safety it affords me, I like the compromise for the OK mileage I get. Some of these small cars, you might as well ride a motorcycle. People don't think about safe cars, just mileage. They will say "5 star crash rating" or "it has 7 air bags". So what. Physics says bigger is safer. I will put my 4000+ pound car against any 4 cyl car. I will fare better.
The engine is giving me trouble in my 53 International harvester pickup. I have been thinking to look for a Mercedes turbo diesel with a manual behind it for a transplant. Should make it an economical and useful truck.
--Doozer

And what if everyone drove small cars? 4cyl car verus 4cyl car, compaired to your 4000lb lincoln on lincoln world.
More to the point, What if you just bought a car that handles and has steering and brakes, usally found in smaller, non boat ancore cars? And avoided the crash entirely? Would you not fare even better then? You are counting on the fact that in an accident, that could be either, or neither persons fault, your vehical will do more physical damage then the other vehical as a safty factor?

lakeside53
08-21-2011, 11:35 PM
Mark - thank you....

wierdscience
08-22-2011, 12:36 AM
And what if everyone drove small cars? 4cyl car verus 4cyl car, compaired to your 4000lb lincoln on lincoln world.
More to the point, What if you just bought a car that handles and has steering and brakes, usally found in smaller, non boat ancore cars? And avoided the crash entirely? Would you not fare even better then? You are counting on the fact that in an accident, that could be either, or neither persons fault, your vehical will do more physical damage then the other vehical as a safty factor?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/wierdscience/55_year-1.jpg

Just sayin.....

danlb
08-22-2011, 12:58 AM
That's a good picture. Everyone here should know enough physics to understand that a 1,000 pound motorcycle at high speed will effectively violate the safety cage of most modern cars. The impact is concentrated in such a small area... like a wedge.

As I understand it, in an average impact, the small cars are doing OK. The car is destroyed but the passenger cabin does fairly well where the passengers are. "Zone of safety" or some such buzzword.

Of course, once you involve large trucks, all bets are off for any passenger car.

Dan

Black_Moons
08-22-2011, 01:33 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/wierdscience/55_year-1.jpg

Just sayin.....

Awsome, but im kinda suspecting someone was seriously at fault there (How else do you t-bone a car at 100mph?), But whoever was at fault is likey at the morge too. I doubt a pickup or boatcar would of surived that either side on. Its like smashing a car with a huge engine block with nothing around it to crumple.

A.K. Boomer
08-22-2011, 01:39 AM
Very detailed post by Mark Hockett and one that speaks of much more direct contact with these cars than I as Iv pretty much been Japanese for the last couple decades,

The timing of this post is good for me to comment on something else that I have to add, I seen my bro tonight who has the TDI jetta - first time in awhile - I had forgotten all about this post this morning and was more fixated at trying to beat him in a game of horseshoe's,
Anyways - he started a rant of his own without me even bringing it up,
even though he's been using the recommended VW oil he's lunched out a turbo @ 90,000 miles and now has had to replace his $700.00 dollar camshaft @ just over 100,000 That's $700.00 just in part since he's doing all the labor, right now the car is inop. and tore down and he said it was a big bummer to work on, needless to say he's done with volkswagon.

Mark Hockett
08-22-2011, 04:05 AM
I have the 2004 TDI Jetta. Some will say they last forever and others say they just fall apart. The only thing I've done is replace the EGR radiator ($400) and wheel bearings in 267,000 miles:) Besides the normal maintenance I'd buy another. Mine has the PD (BEW) engine. Fuel injection pressure run up to 20,000 psi. the newer ones are even more. My little trick - I run a half tank tank of biodiesel about 2 or 3 times a year. Cleans the system out nicely and makes it run smooth ;)
Metalmelter,
I am curious, because we never see these vehicles with this high of mileage, what maintenance you have done, oil change interval, timing belt, coolant changes and such?. also have you ever had any check engine lights or glow plug light issues? If the car was inspected right now by a professional mechanic would it pass or would there be issues like oil leaks, mechanical problems, electronic components inop or driveability issues? Does it have any oil seeping out of the inter-cooler hoses? Is your vehicle a manual trans or automatic? When was the last time it was inspected by a professional mechanic?

The bio diesel turns to a solvent when it gets hot so that is how it cleans but this also how it destroys your engine if you run straight bio all the time. What your doing shouldn't hurt anything. Where we are the bio diesel attracts rats. We have had cars where they chew the fuel lines off trying to get to it.

MrSleepy
08-22-2011, 07:14 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/wierdscience/55_year-1.jpg

Just sayin.....



Does the US have a body who test cars for safety..such as Euro NCAP.

Most cars for sale in Euroland are tested by NCAP..and this has made car manufacturers design safer cars over here.

The modern passat fairs quite well..
http://www.euroncap.com/results/vw/passat/2010/415.aspx

I saw an accident where a passat had hit a Landrover Discovery (mk2 , a much heavier vehicle)front end on...and It made me glad I drove a passat.

Rob

Metalmelter
08-22-2011, 08:06 AM
Metalmelter,
I am curious, because we never see these vehicles with this high of mileage, what maintenance you have done, oil change interval, timing belt, coolant changes and such?. also have you ever had any check engine lights or glow plug light issues? If the car was inspected right now by a professional mechanic would it pass or would there be issues like oil leaks, mechanical problems, electronic components inop or driveability issues? Does it have any oil seeping out of the inter-cooler hoses? Is your vehicle a manual trans or automatic? When was the last time it was inspected by a professional mechanic?
.

HI Mark,

This car won't stop running. Maybe I'm a lucky one. Twice a year I drain all I can from the auto tranny (carefully measure the amount) and refill with the proper Pentosin type fluid. That takes care of the tranny. Coolant - same deal. never an issue there.

I replace the timing belt at 80K to 100K intervals. The last two times I didn't bother swapping the water pump since everything looked to be good. I may the next time. Twice a year at least I offer it a tank of biodiesel (methanol not removed even). That does give me a hard start if try to start after it sits for a bit since the methanol turns to gas (think vapor lock). But 20 sec of cranking and it's gone. If it sits over night the issue is not there - starts right up.

The only issue I have now after all these miles is a code P2108 code - throttle module. I replaced that and I replaced the wrong one (I need the engine side throttle motor I think).

Anyway, lets see.... wheel bearings up front, rear shocks (they lasted 200,000 miles), 4 windshields (rock hits), a handful of headlight bulbs, the EGR cooler, and that's all I can think of. As for the oil I used for almost 200,000 miles - the blue bottled synthetic Rotella T 5W-40 (discontinued) but now I use Mobil 1 5W-40 Turbo Diesel Truck oil. It's the best I can find around here. Rotella was the oil to have for sure. Dump it anywhere between 10K to 15K miles.

And I goofed - the car has 274,000 miles actually. I honestly don't know why there are so many issues with that engine but I haven't had any major complaints so far. I used to swing wrenches for a living, do all my own repairs and try to constantly listen to it run inside of all the diesel clattering. They will tell you a lot for those that can listen ;)

I should add I drive it a minimum 140 miles per each weekday, probably changed the brakes a half dozen times up front, and no - I won't let a "professional" mechanic touch this car unless I know him or her and the issue is beyond my capabilities which hasn't happened yet. The dealership I bought this car from - Corporate (Germany) closed them after too many complaints about the service inside... It's a good decent car for the money I spent. But I'm sure it won't last forever. Nothing ever does. The wife split last year, so did the kids, the housing market crashed and my job is closing.... lol

Black_Moons
08-22-2011, 02:46 PM
HI Mark,
I used to swing wrenches for a living, do all my own repairs and try to constantly listen to it run inside of all the diesel clattering. They will tell you a lot for those that can listen ;)


I don't know how to listen to a diesel.. But I sure know some of the diesel owners around where I live need to be pulled over by the cops and shot for thier crimes against the diesel cycle.

Im guessing a loud 'CLACK....CLACK...CLACK' noise, one clack per revolution, noticable from ohh, 40' away at idle.. along with huge amounts of black smoke at idle, only turning to white smoke at WOT... Is a very bad sign.

John Stevenson
08-22-2011, 06:06 PM
Sunday had to shoot down to Colchester where they used to make the lathes to pick some stuff up, only small stuff, set off in Gerts car, got a mile away and it started shedding the fan belt so went back, grabbed the Donald, a Peugeot Boxer 2.5 diesel, non turbo and threw an X3 mill in the back to hold the arse end down a bit.

The fuel light was just flashing so put £70 worth of diesel in, now our fuel is expensive, £1.35 per litre so £70 = 51.85 litres or 9.602 gallons.

Colchester is 360 miles round trip and the fuel light just came on at the end of the trip, I know this isn't dead accurate but that works out to 37.5 mpg for a 3.25 tonne van.

To be honest it sounds too good to me, I was expecting 32 / 33 on this sort of run. Decent roads, all motor way or decent dual carriage way and constant speed of 60 / 75 mph.

EVguru
08-22-2011, 06:45 PM
Does the US have a body who test cars for safety..such as Euro NCAP.

Most cars for sale in Euroland are tested by NCAP..and this has made car manufacturers design safer cars over here.

The modern passat fairs quite well..
http://www.euroncap.com/results/vw/passat/2010/415.aspx

I saw an accident where a passat had hit a Landrover Discovery (mk2 , a much heavier vehicle)front end on...and It made me glad I drove a passat.

Rob

Most US cars that make it to the UK have poor to average NCAP ratings, but then so do older Range Rovers / Discoveries.

Crash safety isn't quite as important as people think, what really matters is likelyhood to be injured per mile travelled.

If the vehicle you drive is less likely to be involved in an accident (shorter stopping distance, more nimble, etc.) that compensates for less protection. The microcars common in France (30 mph class) only have to comply with minimal crash testing, but are the safest type of vehicle to drive in Paris where the average time before a new car is involved in an acident is only something like a month.

hareng
08-22-2011, 06:57 PM
Similar size van to John but a Tranny high thing, flat out all the way to Swaffham to get a bike returned close on 30 mpg.
Wish i could get that out of my petrol VW unless averaging 65 but would fall asleep. £1.37 ltr round here for petrol, diesel dearer.

hareng
08-22-2011, 07:20 PM
Nice one Mark i wonder if its the same over there as over here.
Bought my VW Golf with full VW stamped service history at three separate dealers in its life span at 60k. The sump drain plug has never been out, two timing belts charged for and doubtful whether plugs changed either = money for old rope.
In all fairness a lot of dealers and independant garages have done so for decades inc GM and Ford.

Ive got an ABS light on:D
Judders/misses/hesitant when accelerating.
Replaced MAF no joy.

MrSleepy
08-22-2011, 07:30 PM
The sump drain plug has never been out, .
When the VW garage changes the oil...they use a log suction tube to suck all the oil out ..Then they dont have to remove all the plastic underneath the engine.

At my local VW dealer they have a windowed workshop next to the showroom and waiting area..so you can watch everything they do..

First time they serviced it I was convinced they hadnt done the oil or filter..but they did/do everthing from the topside

Rob

Black_Moons
08-22-2011, 07:36 PM
Crash safety isn't quite as important as people think, what really matters is likelyhood to be injured per mile travelled.

If the vehicle you drive is less likely to be involved in an accident (shorter stopping distance, more nimble, etc.) that compensates for less protection. The microcars common in France (30 mph class) only have to comply with minimal crash testing, but are the safest type of vehicle to drive in Paris where the average time before a new car is involved in an acident is only something like a month.

EXACTLY! What would you rather be. In a crash in a 'safe', huge car? or in a small car.. that did'nt crash because it just swirved around the accident, or stoped in time.

IMO, saying you need a big, slow, poor handling SUV thats as likey to roll over as it is to turn, to make yourself 'safe' (At the very real expense of doing MORE harm to whoever you hit) Is like saying you should'nt be allowed to drive, because you expect your huge massive car to protection you, insted of your driving skills combined with handling and brakes.

Maybe they should start basing car insurance on Car Weight * Distance traveled per month.

tumutbound
08-22-2011, 08:07 PM
Not a VW owner (not since Beetle days) but I do have a diesel Mercedes Sprinter which is the same as a VW Crafter so close enough :)

Not a lot of user serviceable bits on the motor/transmission for a modern diesel these days. Just to diagnose a fault requires a dealer visit or the purchase of an expensive analyser. A home engine oil change can be done provided you use a suitably approved oil.

At last mine doesn't have the bluetec (urea) crap.

Willy
08-22-2011, 10:14 PM
EXACTLY! What would you rather be. In a crash in a 'safe', huge car? or in a small car.. that did'nt crash because it just swirved around the accident, or stoped in time.

IMO, saying you need a big, slow, poor handling SUV thats as likey to roll over as it is to turn, to make yourself 'safe' (At the very real expense of doing MORE harm to whoever you hit) Is like saying you should'nt be allowed to drive, because you expect your huge massive car to protection you, insted of your driving skills combined with handling and brakes.

Maybe they should start basing car insurance on Car Weight * Distance traveled per month.

I too accept the belief that accident avoidance should be a paramount design goal.
But in the real world I also realize that I am not in complete control of my destiny when traveling our nations highways.
So I continue to believe in the premise that accident survivability engineering should go hand in hand with accident avoidance.

Sooner or later your are going to be a hit by someone who's actions you have no control over.
This is when survivability enters the picture. Thanks in large part to crumple zones, motor vehicle fatalities are lower than ever despite the fact that we now share the road with millions more than a couple of decades ago.

As far as relying on on the driving skills of others......:D

Black_Moons
08-23-2011, 01:41 AM
I too accept the belief that accident avoidance should be a paramount design goal.
But in the real world I also realize that I am not in complete control of my destiny when traveling our nations highways.
So I continue to believe in the premise that accident survivability engineering should go hand in hand with accident avoidance.

Sooner or later your are going to be a hit by someone who's actions you have no control over.
This is when survivability enters the picture. Thanks in large part to crumple zones, motor vehicle fatalities are lower than ever despite the fact that we now share the road with millions more than a couple of decades ago.

As far as relying on on the driving skills of others......:D

Crash zones and survivability do not mean you need a 2ton+ caddy. If anything, a modren lighter car will have such features over a american boatmobile.
Defensive driving goes a long way towards not getting hit by those you have no control over. I don't let anyone drive near me! I never let any drive next to me unless its gridlock traffic, And I stay the hell away from large semi trucks (Either about 60'+ back, Or I get into the passing lane and pass them as quickly as safty allows)
Really, I absolutely refuse to allow people to drive next to me, or behind me in my blind spot, I'll slow down or speed up untill I have space in the lane next to me at all times, and generaly try to slow down or speed up so that theres no cars within 60' of me on hiways/etc. Its really nice having the road to myself. Can't understand people who drive in those little hiway 'packs' with absolutely nowhere to go should something go wrong.

If I crash, Even if its someone elses fault, I consider it MY fault for being near the guy. If I see someone driving poorly on the road I do everything I can to get the hell away from them and stay as far as I can from them.

Oh, And almost forgot to say, If im tailgated, I SLOW DOWN! because its that much more dangerious for me being unable to quickly stop. I will eventualy pull off the road if they don't pass themselfs (Usally at the first, most dangerious opprotunity for them)

Shame on tailgaters, Its only gonna make me go slower.

darryl
08-23-2011, 02:51 AM
Riding a m/cycle sure makes you learn how to scope out poor drivers. Had a close call the other day, but I was paying attention, leaving myself an out. Seems about once a week now somebody doesn't see my bike. One guy was looking right at me, then pulled out and nearly smoked me. Why the heck do they do that? I had my out planned, and I was able to use part 1 of it. I made my turn, knowing I wouldn't quite scrape the peg-

Sometimes I forget how loud it is when you yell out 'ASSHOLE' in your full face helmet-

Black_Moons
08-23-2011, 03:25 AM
Riding a m/cycle sure makes you learn how to scope out poor drivers. Had a close call the other day, but I was paying attention, leaving myself an out. Seems about once a week now somebody doesn't see my bike. One guy was looking right at me, then pulled out and nearly smoked me. Why the heck do they do that? I had my out planned, and I was able to use part 1 of it. I made my turn, knowing I wouldn't quite scrape the peg-

Sometimes I forget how loud it is when you yell out 'ASSHOLE' in your full face helmet-

Get an Air Zound.
http://deltacycle.com/dcimages/airzound4.jpg
Its so loud, it distorts time and space itself. (According to that image anyway :rolleyes: )

Comes with a little bottle you put within about 2' of the horn, and stores 80psi air. Enough for a few dozen short honks, or a few good long ones, before it loses any volume at all.

But seriously, like $40 iirc, at least 115db according to the specs (About as loud as a harley?), And slightly nicer on the ears. :P
(Of course, an electric horn is an option too for a motorcycle.. But air horns sure are DAMN loud!)

Air horns: the politicaly correct way to say 'ASSHOLE!!!'

Eddrickwarner
09-01-2011, 04:06 AM
Since I took a new job that requires a 45 minute commute each day I'm seriously considering a VW Jetta TDI diesel. It's assembled in Mexico, but uses German made engines & trans-axles. If you have experience with these cars please let me know as I'm looking for something with excellent fuel economy and that will last at least 250K miles if properly maintained.

Thanks in advance.
Stan

Must say what choice...!!!!;) Well, VW Jetta is actually my dream car and i love this car's feature especially the looks..its just killing man. I my Jetta few months back, and seriously got unexpected results.. Jetta rules dude !!! For you, do provide you some facts about Jetta, hope these will solve your two state of mind. Basically, Volkswagen's Jetta, has compact sedan that is redesigned for the year 2011. The Jetta was first introduced in the mid-1980s as a slightly upscale version of the Rabbit hatchback and became Volkswagen's bestseller in the U.S. Actually, the fifth-generation Jetta was introduced as a mid-year 2005 model that looked bigger, bolder and more powerful than its predecessor. The 2005 Jetta debuted with a new 150-horsepower 2.5-liter 5-cylinder engine developed specifically for the U.S. market. A 1.9-liter TDI diesel with direct injection was added later in 2005 but discontinued after the 2007 model year. For 2009, the TDI returned to the Jetta lineup with lower emissions and better efficiency than previous versions
In the section of small cars the Volkswagen Jetta (http://www.automotto.com/entry/review-2012-volkswagen-jetta/) is really a nice choice to make. While searching more info about Jetta, I found that this car was actually produced by the German automaker Volkswagen Group for the Volkswagen Passanger Cars marquee that too since 1979. Lately this year, in August, in a test drive of VW Jetta the manufacturer made roll over the 10,000-mile mark, they did so while making the journey across the United States – Detroit to Los Angeles – with AOL Autos' Michael Zak behind the wheel.

The fact says that by mid 2011,almost 10 million Jettas have been produced and sold all over the world. The company has basically changed the oil, tires rotated, fluids topped off, and other key points inspected. Simple stuff. According to the service technicians the driver door's sound deadening materials would be inspected and replaced, and to be honest, there wasn't any noticeable difference in wind noise when we picked the car up from service later that day.

If the Volkswagen Jetta TDI featured in the Battle Of The Eco Compact Cars comparison test looked familiar, that's because it's the long-term tester. In fact, you might say that the arrival of our Jetta TDI is what sparked the idea for the comparison test, especially after when you get the car on a few long highway trips and record well over 50 miles per gallon. And while the Jetta – spoiler alert! – may not have won our eco-warrior comparison, its 2.0-liter diesel engine continues to impress us with its effortless efficiency. :)

This seems as I told you the history of Jetta..but actually thats my love for this car;)

Latest Models of Jetta:

2012 Volkswagen Jetta GLI
2011 Volkswagen Jetta TDI Diesel
2011 Volkswagen Jetta 2.5 SEL
2010 Volkswagen Jetta TDI Cup Edition
Volkswagen Jetta GLI 16V

alanganes
09-01-2011, 09:25 AM
Get an Air Zound.
<SNIP>
(Of course, an electric horn is an option too for a motorcycle.. But air horns sure are DAMN loud!)

Air horns: the politicaly correct way to say 'ASSHOLE!!!'


Interesting that you say that. One of my sons has commented many times that cars should be equipped with TWO horns, One would be the "friendly" horn, that you use when you say drive past a neighbor and wave, or just want to give someone sitting ahead of you at a just-turned-green light a gentle notice to look up and see that they can go now, etc. The other would be loud and annoying and be used when another driver did something stupid or dangerous and you wanted to be, well, less friendly.

EVguru
09-01-2011, 09:46 AM
Interesting that you say that. One of my sons has commented many times that cars should be equipped with TWO horns, One would be the "friendly" horn, that you use when you say drive past a neighbor and wave, or just want to give someone sitting ahead of you at a just-turned-green light a gentle notice to look up and see that they can go now, etc. The other would be loud and annoying and be used when another driver did something stupid or dangerous and you wanted to be, well, less friendly.

The datasheet for the LM2907 used to contain an application example (I think for New York cabs) with a quiet horn below a certain speed and a loud one above.