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DATo
08-27-2011, 06:00 AM
I have been a machinist, shop supervisor and teacher of machine shop technology for what seems like forever and I've looked forward to retirement, primarily for the freedom from having to march to the beat of other drummers; but, as I approach retirement I know I will miss it too. You can't do something for an entire career and then suddenly turn it off. I've run a part time business from my home in the past but this too made me a slave to deadlines and agendas set by others and I would prefer to skip going that route again.

I've gotten a great deal of satisfaction from teaching shop courses and my students have always been very complimentary in voicing their appreciation of my teaching method. As a result I've been considering teaching machine shop (basically lathe and mill) from my home but I have no idea of what I'd be getting into so I thought I would tap the brain bank here at HSM for some opinions. I've already considered liability and intend to check with my lawyer about the value of liability waivers ect.

My course would be targeted at newcomers to machine shop who wish to learn the fundamentals of using a lathe and mill or to intermediate level students who just want to sharpen their skills. A full blown course would cover everything but individual sessions dealing with one particular shop technique would also be possible, so opinions from HSM newbies would be particularly helpful, but of course I would be very grateful for any and all opinions.

Thanks in advance !

PixMan
08-27-2011, 08:13 AM
Great idea and I applaud it. There's a dearth of schools that offer this, but more importantly the instructors. I have to be honest when I say that of the few vocational instructors I've met lately, none seem to have the depth of knowledge and range of skills they should have. You would be experienced enough to offer a quality education.

I'd be very concerned about liability, and I think much of the price you could charge would be driven by the insurance cost. To my mind that's actually secondary to getting students. Perhaps it's a matter of advertising, but I've offered to give a lesson/spend a few hours with anyone who wants to come to Worcester, and in the past two years only two people have taken advantage of the offer.

With some proper promotion, and the backing of you attorney and insurance agent, I think it's a noble endeavor.

Black Forest
08-27-2011, 08:23 AM
Hey Pixman, you spelled Woster wrong! I never did figure out how Worcester got to be pronounced Woster.

Black_Moons
08-27-2011, 08:34 AM
I gotta second pixmans suggestion about liability. in todays world.. meh.

Course, id likey just get the students to sign a waver... Don't like the fact that dying is your own fault? Find another teacher, Because thats gonna be lesson #1.

gary350
08-27-2011, 09:11 AM
I know the college professors at the local university machine shop, casting department, and electronic department. I go over there and hang out sorta like a student teacher sometimes. I don't go every day just when I feel like it. It is fun to see what the students are working on an I can offer them a lot of help. I don't get paid a dime. We all go to lunch and that is fun too. I have been doing that less and less, yesterday I worked on my 6 none working push mowers I decided it was time to make another one RUN. I spent about 6 hours making one run like brand new. I have been having a lot of fun building hobby jet engines, steam engines and stirling engines in my home shop. I built 18 custom bicycles that I loan out to the neighbor hood children every day. I hope this gives you some retirement ideas. A person needs to find something to do with their free time when they retire.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e358/gary350/tall1.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e358/gary350/long2.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e358/gary350/trike1.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e358/gary350/tall2.jpg

RussZHC
08-27-2011, 09:24 AM
As Pixman knows and stated the getting students could be the tough part. My perspective there is from sport and if you want to coach a particular event that is off the beaten path a bit you are always going to be struggling to find those to keep the whole idea viable.

Maybe comparing apples and oranges but liability is also quite an issue in sport...my only thought there would be to do it through a school system be it regular classes or extra curricular ("adult ed" ?) but from what you have said I suspect you have gone that route in the past and its not what you are after now.

Teaching has intrinsic value, the joy in others accomplishments and success but can be hugely frustrating esp when students/athletes don't seem to want it [based solely on personal experiences and hopefully not the case with your endeavor]

I suppose the other way to go about it would be to take on a large mentoring role to one or two individuals (as part of an apprenticeship program ?)

alanganes
08-27-2011, 09:28 AM
No idea if it works the same way out where you live, but around here most of the voc-tech schools offer night/adult ed classes for stuff like that and are usually screaming for skilled folks to teach them. You even get paid for it. Not an awful lot of pay, from what I understand, but if your goal is to convey knowledge of the art it is a great vehicle to do so. And you make a few hobby-bucks.

Might not be the sort of venue you are interested in, but you would have a shop full of other folks machines to teach on as well as advertising, etc. Just a thought...

Black_Moons
08-27-2011, 09:35 AM
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e358/gary350/tall1.jpg


Gez put a helmet on that kid, if the bike falls over hes gonna smash his skull open! :)

But seriously. Helmets. Around here they started fineing people for not having helmets. Kinda stupid untill you realise.. Kids do as they see adults do.

if none of the adults wear helmets, Kids think its 'Not cool', Since the laws changed.. I went from being one of those kids, to a teenager and then adult who thought NOT wearing a helmet was 'Not cool'. Even though I never once put a single scratch on my helmet. (though, I have only crashed once since wearing it. And once or twice fallen over at near 0 speed due to crazy tight turns on bad ground)

gary350
08-27-2011, 10:54 AM
Gez put a helmet on that kid, if the bike falls over hes gonna smash his skull open! :)

But seriously. Helmets. Around here they started fineing people for not having helmets. Kinda stupid untill you realise.. Kids do as they see adults do.

if none of the adults wear helmets, Kids think its 'Not cool', Since the laws changed.. I went from being one of those kids, to a teenager and then adult who thought NOT wearing a helmet was 'Not cool'. Even though I never once put a single scratch on my helmet. (though, I have only crashed once since wearing it. And once or twice fallen over at near 0 speed due to crazy tight turns on bad ground)

It is the law to wear helmets in TN too. That is my son and this 150ft ride is just for taking a picture. We all ride with helmets I won't ride without one. I do group rides somethings with 2000 bikers 400 miles 6 day ride and camping along the way its the rules there too everyone wears a helmet.

gwilson
08-27-2011, 12:05 PM
I think if any neighbor kids got hurt riding that tall bicycle,you would have a tough time keeping a jury from suing you for everything you have.

Black_Moons
08-27-2011, 12:26 PM
It is the law to wear helmets in TN too. That is my son and this 150ft ride is just for taking a picture. We all ride with helmets I won't ride without one. I do group rides somethings with 2000 bikers 400 miles 6 day ride and camping along the way its the rules there too everyone wears a helmet.

So why did you let him break the law and ride 150' without a helmet on a dangeriously high bike? Then take a photo to share with other people to show off that you allowed him to break the law, encouraging others to follow the example?

baldysm
08-27-2011, 12:27 PM
Couple big issues in my opinion.

One... liability as was previously mentioned. Sure, you might be able to get insurance, and it's not a problem if nothing happens, but.... I also think that it could be a challenge to get a company to underwrite a guy teaching classes out of his house. It would be better if it was a "real business", and I don't mean any disrespect to you, but it wouldnt be looked on as favorably from a insurance point of view.

Two... do you really want people you don't know running around your shop/house? You might find things disappear on occasion. I'm at the stage in my business where I could use an employee, and have not gotten one because I work out of my house/shop.

I think a community ed thing would be a good idea, provided that there was a location it could be taught at (ie, not your place). Maybe have more advanced classes that you offer to select students.

loose nut
08-27-2011, 12:31 PM
If you are going to do something like that then do it off of your property and set it up as a business. You want to separate it from your personnel life to limit liability. This might make it a no-go cost wise thought.

Tony
08-27-2011, 12:34 PM
Do it online. Make videos.. show people how its done .. for a subscription.

Do a search for "The Hand Tool School" -- maybe follow the same model?

No liability.. no one in your house.. much larger client base.

and you only have to teach each class once and record it. :)

Tony

aboard_epsilon
08-27-2011, 12:38 PM
Hey Pixman, you spelled Woster wrong! I never did figure out how Worcester got to be pronounced Woster.
your lucky you dont live in the uk

lots of crap like that


local; to me ..
Harwarden... pronounced Hardone

local to Alistair

Hawick.. pronounced Hoyk

all the best.markj

loose nut
08-27-2011, 12:48 PM
This from the people that claim to have given the world the English language.

rohart
08-27-2011, 12:48 PM
Well, Harwick your Hawarden somewhere else, Mark !

Anyway, its Woosta, as in Bertie.

My daughters wear helmets. Their dad doesn't. They know he's invincible.

DAto - if you can get liability insurance and pay it by the teaching hour, then I think you'll do well. What won't work out is if the only way you can cover yourself is with a flat, huge, annual fee. I'd be interested to know how it goes.

aboard_epsilon
08-27-2011, 01:01 PM
double post ..sorry

gary350
08-27-2011, 01:33 PM
So why did you let him break the law and ride 150' without a helmet on a dangeriously high bike? Then take a photo to share with other people to show off that you allowed him to break the law, encouraging others to follow the example?

I think some people need something to bitch about. If there is nothing to bitch about then they have nothing to say. Its like the only saying, He who yells the loudest has the least to say.

Chris S.
08-27-2011, 01:35 PM
Teaching nights at a vocational/adult education school won't be much different from not being retired. About twenty years ago I taught Industrial Electronics at a Palm Beach County tech school for three years. You will still be marching to another drummer and punching a clock. You may also find that that the daytime instructor has a habit of locking things up,.. that only he has a key for. No matter how many times I confronted the guy about my lack of access to instruments, I was shoveling sh*t against the tide!

I just retired this year. I suggest you do the same and ENJOY IT! The last thing you need at this point in your life is dealings with blood sucking lawyers! ;)

Chris

BTW, I read a ton of "Nannie State Group Think" here but I'll bite my tongue.

Black_Moons
08-27-2011, 01:53 PM
I think some people need something to bitch about. If there is nothing to bitch about then they have nothing to say. Its like the only saying, He who yells the loudest has the least to say.

So thats explains why you post about ebay so often?

Seriously though, why would you let your kid ride a bike without a helmet, reguardless of distance, then show it off to people? Let alone a bike thats tall enough to be a serious hazard even if it fell over at 0mph?

PTSideshow
08-27-2011, 02:21 PM
Other area's you are going to have to check out, Are your home owners insurance. Since most offer a add on for teachers, and of course in today's world a real good alarm system. as you may have a lot of lookee lou's that may be looking to fill orders. As has been suggested you may want to check out the local Comm. college or night school classes granted they don't pay for nothing. A round here, they were paying $15.00 per hour for the instructors for the adult enrichment classes at the local Macomb county comm college, a couple of years ago.

Different subject material, I know of somebody that was teaching silver smithing out of their house. One of the students told some friends, one of which did a home invasion type looking for all the silver (very small amount of sheet and wire) and gold(wire used in teaching wire wrapped jewelry) along with the gemstones( not the diamond and other high dollar stones the idiot thought) No body got hurt to bad, or worse.

People may think you got big bucks with the machines you do have, as a lot people don't have a clue. That boats, motorcycles and ski trips cost more!
So there are a lot of things to consider.

uncle pete
08-27-2011, 02:29 PM
DATo,
I think it's a great idea. With one or two students at a time it would minimise the chances of personal injuries or equipment damage. I've done a fair amount of training in my jobs and it can be very rewarding and a bit frustrating at times. For a course that's paid for by the people your teaching you get students who want to learn. To use woodturning as an example there's courses all over the world being taught to small groups of students. But a online subscribed course would also be a great idea as someone else has already pointed out.

Pete

Chris S.
08-27-2011, 02:32 PM
Saturdays are one of my two designated "Bar Days", where I'll meet with like minded friends. Each one of us will have our own personal "Rant Of The Week", but mine will be extra special today.

My rant today will be.. What motivates people to get in your face incessantly. Telling you that they know what's best for you, and they only want to protect you from yourself. I wear a damn seatbelt because I feel more secure in it. I still resent that the ninnie nannies felt compelled to legislate it! :mad:


The Marine Corps is finding it harder and harder to find "a few good men". I wonder why? :rolleyes:


Oops! I promised myself that I wouldn't get involved in this issue. Damn!

Black_Moons
08-27-2011, 03:11 PM
My rant today will be.. What motivates people to get in your face incessantly. Telling you that they know what's best for you, and they only want to protect you from yourself. I wear a damn seatbelt because I feel more secure in it. I still resent that the ninnie nannies felt compelled to legislate it! :mad:


While I agree in princaple, I kinda think helmet/seatbelt laws are a good thing in changing the culture of it. When I was a kid, very few people used seatbelts and rarely did they make thier kids use them. It just was not the culture to do so. Some people rebel against it sure. But thats 'A rebel without a cause' :)

Also, here in canada we do get taxed for healthcare, So reducing overall healthcare costs technicaly IS in your best intrests, even if it never saves your life. (In the USA, you have the same deal, Except average healthcare costs are reflected in your insurance rates insted of taxes. Same deal, diffrent bill)

Carld
08-27-2011, 03:16 PM
DATo, before you advertise for students visit your insurance rep and ask them about teaching machine work at your home. I think your going to get a loud fast NO, we will not cover you for that under any conditions. I doubt you will find any insurance company that will cover you for that in your home shop.

Next go to the business license dept in your county or city and ask about operating a school teaching machine operation from your home. Another NO, you can't do that.

IF you do get past those barriers I suggest you only have ONE student in your shop at a time. Things happen to fast for you to be watching two people at once.

If you want to have a teaching school I suggest you rent a small building in a business zoned area and do it there where you can get insured and licensed without any problems. If you don't have a license and insurance and someone gets hurt you will pay for it the rest of your life.

Teaching for pay in your home shop has many red flags flying over it. Here's the problem, the laws in almost every state, county and city are written to keep anyone from doing what you have in mind. Even operating a machine shop in a residential area is illegal almost everywhere.

I really think you need to research this and think long and hard about doing it at your home shop. It could cost you everything you own if someone gets hurt. If you don't have a license and insurance and someone gets hurt you will pay for it the rest of your life.

tmc_31
08-27-2011, 04:33 PM
DATo

I think you have a good idea and encourage you to pursue it. While liability issues are real, they can and should be minimized regardless of what the underwriters may dictate.

As for potential students, we are always getting new members here who are new to machining. There may be a wealth of potential students here and on other machining boards with a proven interest in the craft. Perhaps a 2 or 3 day introduction to machining for a small class of newbies would be in order.

Go for it, best of luck,

Tim

Black_Moons
08-27-2011, 04:55 PM
So... Is my liability waver idea just totaly nuts? Nobody has commented on it. Id say it would have to 'Include death' to be honest.

Likey cheaper to hire a lawyer to draft one up then it is to get insurance and all that. Maybe with the stipulation that all safty information from several well known (And listed on the waver) machinist books is taught it might hold up in court a little better. Tell your potential students if they can't/won't sign the waver, thats fine, They can just go to well insured schools instead. Nobody is forcing people to take your class, and indeed, you only need a couple people, So you do not need to appeal to a huge market.

elf
08-27-2011, 04:58 PM
I doubt a liability waver would hold up in court. Can you afford the risk?

tmc_31
08-27-2011, 05:01 PM
[QUOTE=Black_Moons]So... Is my liability waver idea just totaly nuts? Nobody has commented on it. Id say it would have to 'Include death' to be honest.

Not nuts at all Moons, I decided not to let insurance companies run my business a long time ago.

Tim

Black_Moons
08-27-2011, 05:19 PM
I doubt a liability waver would hold up in court. Can you afford the risk?

Thats why you pay a lawyer to write it. And hope to never, ever see him again. :P

I wonder if you could get a lawyer to 'insure' his waver would stand up in coart. Hmmm :P

loose nut
08-27-2011, 06:00 PM
So... Is my liability waver idea just totaly nuts? Nobody has commented on it. Id say it would have to 'Include death' to be honest.



Depends on the country your in.

Pretty much worthless in Canada, you can not give up your right to sue here. It's only value is that a claimant may not think he can sue if he is ignorant of the law. Other countries will have different laws, it may work in the US but I would find out for sure before betting the barn on it.

Carld
08-27-2011, 06:23 PM
A lawyer told me a liability waver is not worth the paper it's wrote on here. He said if it goes to a jury trial it can go either way. Juries are fickle and never dependable.

If DATo does it without insurance or a license it could be a disaster. His best bet is to teach at a school. With people ready to sue at the drop of a hat why would anyone in their right mind want to take that responsibility.

As I said, one accident could cost your everything you have and then pay for the rest of your life. Those that say, go ahead and do it are not considering the real world issues.

It's bad enough to run a shop in a residential area without license or insurance but to have people working in your shop or teaching them is just totally foolish.

Even your best friends or family will sue you so what do you think a stranger will do?

PixMan
08-27-2011, 06:53 PM
I, and some friends of mine have all (at different times and places) run "track days" for motorcyclists at local race tracks. We have always had the waiver of liability, and each participant signed with witnesses as they read ALOUD the simple statement that "I understand this activity could cause serious injury or death and neither I nor my heirs can hold the organizers liable."

Or something very close to those words.

Did it absolve us of all liability, risk of lawsuits and give us a pass to be negligent? Certainly not. Though one of us who is a practicing attorney wrote it (and the accompanying procedure for signing it), we knew that a lawyer would dismiss it and take us to court anyhow.

Just the same we went through it because we figured at least half the people there were dumb enough to think they'd signed away all their rights to sue. And we never did get sued. One of my friends still runs track days for a living, and though there's been no deaths, there have been some serious injuries. Still no litigation. Cool.

Black_Moons
08-27-2011, 07:01 PM
Did it absolve us of all liability, risk of lawsuits and give us a pass to be negligent? Certainly not.

Just the same we went through it because we figured at least half the people there were dumb enough to think they'd signed away all their rights to sue. And we never did get sued. One of my friends still runs track days for a living, and though there's been no deaths, there have been some serious injuries. Still no litigation. Cool.

Heh, Hopefuly, those half are the ones who do something stupid and (nearly?) kill themselfs.

And while I doubt a waver would give you any kinda pass to be negligent, I would at least hope it would hold weight in court if you where not found negligent, but did what you could and it happened anyway.

Accidents happen, I don't see why people should get a right to sue for accidents. Lots of fun has been lost due to excessive lawsuits :(

SteveF
08-27-2011, 08:11 PM
Just a little FYI about liability waivers from an actual lawyer.

http://www.forc.org/pdfs/vol16-ed3-art3.pdf

Steve

justanengineer
08-28-2011, 01:18 AM
I say forget the home shop teaching. If you want to continue to teach, go work part time at the local technical college. Where I went to school, part time = <10 hours of class time per week, with full time being 10 hours class time per week. My father taught various vocational classes in middle and high school as well as the college level for 26 years before "retiring." He was rather popular as a teacher bc he rarely gave homework assignments and maximized the time each student spent working with their hands. I should think you could do something similar and thereby work 2-3 afternoons per week in 4 month blocks (semesters).

DATo
08-28-2011, 06:07 AM
gary350 - I see your point. I'm sure I could get get enough satisfaction in retired life by working on personal projects alone. By the way, I am very impressed with the creativity and craftsmanship displayed by those bikes you've made.

PixMan & uncle pete & tmc_31 - Thanks for your encouragement. I think it would be something to fill my time with and also create an opportunity for making new friends and contacts. I have found a couple of people already who welcome an opportunity to get some professional instruction. It would also present a chance to contribute to the promotion of model engineering as well.

alanganes & Chris S & justanengineer - Your suggestion to teach night school is one I had not considered and is very interesting to me though I am afraid I would once again be under the thumb of administrators and told what to do and how it must be done and not have the freedom to do things my own way. This is precisely what I want to avoid in retired life. But your suggestions are certainly worthy of consideration.

loose nut & Tony - Creating an online machine shop tutorial with free access is something I plan to do for my present employer. I have extensive experience in creating websites and I think I could do a good job with it. But I could never charge for something like that if I did it on my own. Internet freedom of access to information is something that is a sacred and cherished ideal to me and I totally respect people like 'tubal cain' (though I may not always agree with him) *L* and sites like this very HSM forum for making advice totally free of charge to all visitors. I view internet commercialism as it applies to individual self-improvement as a necessary component of the system but I prefer not to contribute to it. If I do a personal shop tutorial website (and I may) I would make it totally free of charge. But thanks so much for the suggestion !

RussZHC & Pix Man - I think it might be easier than you think to get students. I already know several people who would be interested and I learned by running my home based shop business that word of mouth advertising travels fast. uncle pete mentioned that perhaps one or two students might make a good limit per class and that's precisely what I had intended to do. I currently teach two students in the morning and two in the afternoon and repeat this four times for a total of 16 students per year (during teaching season) and that has worked out very well as I can give good, quality instruction to each.

Black Moons & elf & Carld & justanengineer & others - You have certainly gotten my attention with your posts regarding liability issues and licensing. I have taught machine shop seasonally for the last 15 years and I have never had an accident on my watch but that doesn't mean I won't have one the day I start classes from my home. As Clint Eastwood might say "Do you feel lucky?" As far as licensing goes, I think if I keep a low profile there won't be any trouble. I live in a very nice suburban neighborhood on a cul-de-sac and when I ran my former business I had people dropping by all the time. But as long as no commercial vehicles like flatbed trailers were going down the street the neighbors just considered what I was doing as none of their business. I have great neighbors by the way and I doubt that any would make a fuss even if they knew what I was doing. About the only way I could get in trouble would be if a student turned me in. SteveF - I really appreciate that pdf you posted regarding liability. It was very illuminating. Thanks so much!

baldysm & PTSideshow - Yes, when you open your doors to the public you never know what the wind might blow in. My shop is very secure and in public view as well as well-lit at night and since I do not normally wander far from home I think I would have little to fear from thieves except perhaps a student who feels safe pocketing something when I'm not looking but I doubt that this would happen. Public access would be restricted to the shop and not to my home in general. I have a dedicated washroom for my visitors so there would be no need for them to wander through my home. loose nut - I agree that it is wise to disassociate myself from strangers in such an endeavor but I found that personal associations with my customers when I ran my business was one of the plusses to what I was doing. I met some wonderful people and made some good friends that way. But your warning is understood and well advised too.

rohart - I will indeed let you know how it goes but this is a plan for the future and not anytime soon. I will subscribe to this thread and update it if I get any professional (or otherwise) information that I think would be of interest.

THANKS ONCE AGAIN TO ALL WHO RESPONDED !!!!

EDIT: gwilson - *Shaking his finger at gwilson* ... You, sir, have a moral obligation to pass on the abilities you possess to create such exquisite masterpieces as those I've seen posted by you on this forum. Your work is pure artistry and it would be a damn shame for the world to lose that knowledge when you are gone. May you live a long long time and continue to bring beauty to this sad world through the magnificence of your creations.

The Artful Bodger
08-28-2011, 06:41 AM
Your suggestion to teach night school is one I had not considered and is very interesting to me though I am afraid I would once again be under the thumb of administrators and told what to do and how it must be done and not have the freedom to do things my own way. .


I have a feeling that working as a "retirement job" would change ones' mindset such that you could enjoy what you like doing without too much fear of the administrators. Just think, if they really burnish you too much you can always quit!:)

DATo
08-28-2011, 07:25 AM
I have a feeling that working as a "retirement job" would change ones' mindset such that you could enjoy what you like doing without too much fear of the administrators. Just think, if they really burnish you too much you can always quit!:)


Good point Arty ~~ Reminds me of a story about the philosopher George Santayana. One spring day, during a lecture at Harvard, where he taught, Santayana wandered over to the window and casually looked outside while he was speaking and after awhile he abruptly stopped talking. He stood there just looking out the window for what seemed to the students a long time. Then he turned to the class and said, "You must excuse me. I have an appointment with April." He then walked out and never returned. This has to stand as the most profoundly poetic way of declaring retirement in all history. *LOL*

Ohio Mike
08-28-2011, 11:15 AM
I doubt a liability waver would hold up in court. Can you afford the risk?

Doesn't matter if is does or doesn't. Ether way you'll go broke paying your lawyer to discuss it in the courtroom.

Carld
08-28-2011, 11:31 AM
DATo, I'm sure you will take due consideration on the project and I hope you CYA if you pursue the teaching at home.

vincemulhollon
08-28-2011, 02:39 PM
... As a result I've been considering teaching machine shop (basically lathe and mill) from my home ...

Amusingly the first thing I thought of was you teaching at home over the internet, and absolutely everyone else assumed in person.

Over the net has its advantages, such as covering the entire English speaking world, so you could do a very tightly focused class if you want. "gearcutting using EMC2 controller" vs "general machine introduction"

loose nut
08-28-2011, 04:18 PM
There is only one problem with teaching over the internet or other book reading/computer based training, it just isn't the same as having an instructor right there to help you. It's to bad that the legal eagles have made doing things like what you wanted to do damn near impossible.

Chris S.
08-28-2011, 04:47 PM
Amusingly the first thing I thought of was you teaching at home over the internet, and absolutely everyone else assumed in person.



So you shouldn't feel alone, I did too!

Carld
08-28-2011, 05:57 PM
I agree loose nut, if we had to prove intent to harm before a law suit could happen we would be much better off. The USA laws are written for lawyers by lawyers/politicians. The common man/woman doesn't have a chance.

boslab
08-28-2011, 07:02 PM
i think its brilliant, as for litigation i'm sure you could have some sort of public liability insurance like we have in the uk, plus a disclaimer drawn up by a solicitor and register yourself as a charity, as i assume you would not be charging [except materials], why not try it, maybee one day we will be able to live without lawyers!
mark