PDA

View Full Version : Help with frozen joint needed.



Your Old Dog
08-29-2011, 11:11 AM
I have a heavy duty Harley hauler for my RV made by Blue Ox. Two of the joints will barely budge. They both have zirk fittings but won't accept any fresh grease( you can just make out the zerk fitting). I removed a bolt that holds the joint together, stood it up right and soaked it in WD40 until I had it running out the other end but it still won't turn?

The square 2" solid steel tube is evidentally turned down (as in lathe operation) on one end to fit in this sleeve that the cable is just touching. That sleeve is welded to the piece you see heading up the screen. It is supposed to allow pivoting action at the joint.

Tools at my disposal are O/A setup, hyralulic jacks, pry bars

Any suggestions on how best to unstick this joint?

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6197/6092472601_2534660da8_z.jpg

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6206/6093011746_b7bb034f82_z.jpg

brian Rupnow
08-29-2011, 11:24 AM
Well, its going to wreck your shiny black paint, but it looks like it is calling for some heat from an oxy acetylene torch to get it apart.

Dr Stan
08-29-2011, 11:34 AM
Well, its going to wreck your shiny black paint, but it looks like it is calling for some heat from and oxy acetylene torch to get it apart.

Ditto. You're going to have to get it apart and clean out the rust/gunk.

John Stevenson
08-29-2011, 11:35 AM
Perhaps if you swapped the Harley for something more reliable you wouldn't have to tow it to start ?

BigMike782
08-29-2011, 12:22 PM
John,that's why the carrier is on the BACK so as the parts fall off they don't get driven over and damage the coach:)

Carld
08-29-2011, 12:48 PM
I would get a puller ready with an impact wrench and then heat the bushing up with the puller in place and then hit it with the impact wrench. If you get it hot enough it will come off.

Joe Rogers
08-29-2011, 01:24 PM
WD 40 is not the best penetrant. I prefer Kano Kroil. If you must use a commercial product anyway.
Joe

Jim Caudill
08-29-2011, 03:46 PM
Simply remove the zerk fitting and spray a GOOD pentrating oil in the hole and let it work its way down. This could take repeated applications, over a couple of days.

If time is of the essence, then heat will get it done. Again, remove the zerk fitting first. If you wind up taking it apart, reassemble with some anti-seize. I also use Kroil from the Kano Corporation (AeroKroil is the aerosol version). If you don't have access to Kroil, then try PB Blaster that is available at many auto parts stores.

brian Rupnow
08-29-2011, 03:48 PM
Every time I read the title to this thread, it makes me laugh---It keeps making me think that it should have been posted by an Eskimo----

Carld
08-29-2011, 04:22 PM
Yeah, that's the first joint that came to mind then I thought maybe he left his Mary Jane out in the snow.

firbikrhd1
08-29-2011, 04:27 PM
Try one of these:
http://toolmonger.com/2008/08/07/rejuvenate-stuck-grease-fittings-and-joints/
It might save you a lot of work.

http://www.mechanicstoolsupply.com/Mechanics-Lubrication-Tools/Grease-Service/KD416--Ramo-Matic-Zerk-Fitting-Tool-KD-Tools-416/index.html

PixMan
08-29-2011, 04:31 PM
John,that's why the carrier is on the BACK so as the parts fall off they don't get driven over and damage the coach:)

LOL! :D

Now that there was funny, wunndit?

Tanto
08-29-2011, 04:36 PM
One word. Heat.

BigMike782
08-29-2011, 10:11 PM
What if he was to heat the affected joint and then pump some grease in?Wouldn't that have a similar effect as pentrant?

Your Old Dog
08-29-2011, 10:38 PM
Thanks for your suggestions guys. I was just able to make them out above all the noise from one of resident Limeys in the forum :D

I'm thinking on trying Firkirhd suggestion sort of. Stealing from his idea I'm thinking of cutting the zirk part off a new fitting and brazing it to a small piece of pipe. Pour some liquid wrench into the tube and then putting a snug fitting piece of brass stock into it and whomp it with a hammer. If that don't get things moving I'll do the heat thing. I have a rosebud for my O/A setup. If I can get the heat to the sleeve fast enough the bulk or mass in the 2" solid square may keep it cool enough that it might work.

Sir John, I know it ain't exactly a plethura but I do have title to two of sweet sounding babes! A guy offered to trade me a garage full of Commandos for one but I passed as I couldn't afford the oil :D

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6146/6039722673_f32408a4eb_z.jpg

darryl
08-29-2011, 10:44 PM
Chuck some scrap rod and drill a center hole through it, then ream it. Make it to suit a smooth rod that will act as a piston. I'm thinking some drill rod or music wire, 3/16 or so diameter. Maybe the rod you use can be made into a D bit to ream the hole with. Get a zirk fitting and mate this cylinder to it. This is now a pump.

Extend the piston rod, fill the cylinder with penetrant, then replace the existing zirk with it. Give the piston rod a few sharp smacks with a light hammer to force the penetrant into the frozen joint. Some penetrant will squirt back along the piston rod and the zirk threads, so it might be good to hold a rag around that before smacking the rod. Once you know you've got some forced into the joint, let it sit for a day. You might repeat this procedure and wait another day if it didn't work the first time. Save the tool for next time.

Willy
08-29-2011, 11:30 PM
Jumping into this a little late, but yeah have to agree the high pressure application of a good quality penatrent will usually do the trick if it doesn't have to be done NOW.

I used to run into this every now and then when running heavy equipment. Our highways maintenance yard used to get various equipment in on a rotational basis and some were in dire need of servicing when we received them.

When faced with this problem heat was not and option as component damage due to heat could not be risked.

I used various lengths of threaded tubing that I would thread into the components grease fitting hole. I used a drill bit or probe to get as much crap out of the hole as possible before threading the tube into the component.
I would usually use Liquid Wrench, Kroil, or even varsol/atf depending what was available, to fill the tube.
Screw a grease fitting into the tube, and then using a good quality grease gun capable of 10,000 psi, lean on it until it either breaks the restriction loose or leave it for a while with full pressure applied, it will let go.

This procedure will also sort out the good quality flex hoses from the bad.

Abner
08-30-2011, 12:11 AM
This is a question for the Doobie brothers :D

Tanto
08-30-2011, 01:09 AM
Sir John, I know it ain't exactly a plethura but I do have title to two of sweet sounding babes!

I love antique bikes :p

Boucher
08-30-2011, 01:11 AM
One of the lengthy threads on penetrating oil someone suggested using some brake cleaner before applying the penetrant. I have been working on some shipping container hinges for a couple of years. I was amazed at what the brake cleaner washed out of some of those joints. Flush it and apply the penetrating oil. If that doesn’t get the job done, your are probably going to need to use Carld’s suggested method.

boslab
08-30-2011, 02:15 AM
if you dont want to wreck the powdercoat you can use the opposite of heat, no heat [or cold, but theres no measurement for the amount of cold as its not a quantity], freeze, then boiling salt water, freeze again, etc
salt and ice is good as a freeze
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=10444
sometimes it will work, its low cost ive unceased an engine with it so it works [mind a soak with coke is good!] putting the joint under tension will help break it iso prop alchohol will track into a joint well also
mark

Tanto
08-30-2011, 02:29 AM
One reason I suggested heat is that presumably there is still some lubrication in there. The heat would help soften it and drive it between the components.

quadrod
08-30-2011, 07:47 AM
I used to visit an oil rig maintence shop some years ago and they had a fitting made to go on a porta-power. They would replace the zerk with the fitting and hook up the porta power and force oil into the joint and high pressure.

Abner
08-30-2011, 08:24 AM
Seriously - My tractor bucket zerks are a PITA. I remove them and clean out the crud in the hole with an ice pick and flush the zerk with the grease gun before reassembling. This usually helps.

A.K. Boomer
08-30-2011, 09:16 AM
I'm thinking on trying Firkirhd suggestion sort of. Stealing from his idea I'm thinking of cutting the zirk part off a new fitting and brazing it to a small piece of pipe. Pour some liquid wrench into the tube and then putting a snug fitting piece of brass stock into it and whomp it with a hammer.




I would not go this route - what you will most likely end up with is a broken off zirk thread fitting inside the mount or at least stripped threads, its near impossible to keep things directly straight when hitting them with a hammer, that coupled with the high separating pressures (on the braze) is a recipe for detachment.

This is a bit of a patience game --- good penetrating oil and time if you don't want to cook your paint off with heat,
also -- you would not believe how many times iv found it to be solidified grease (and rust) right inside the zirk - so first pull the old zirk and try just it on the gun - get it free - then dig down a little inside its bore where its installed and clean out the rust,
If you can get things to move at all then your on your way...

Don't be to rough on Sir John - he's just calling them like he see's them - the britts are very direct and to the point - he's actually going pretty easy on you for if I was British I would have told you your entire motor home AND "matching ensemble" looks like something Liberace would drive - not that there's anything wrong with that:p

Your Old Dog
08-30-2011, 09:20 AM
Seriously - My tractor bucket zerks are a PITA. I remove them and clean out the crud in the hole with an ice pick and flush the zerk with the grease gun before reassembling. This usually helps.

I didn't know that the zerks would cease up as many seem to suggest. I just ASSumed (!) grease wouldn't go in because of the ceased up joint. Maybe the zerk is plugged and won't let the grease it. I'll try that first as it's the easiest to do.

Thanks again all.

A.K. Boomer
08-30-2011, 09:28 AM
once you get things moving and free with a thinner grease then load your grease gun up with a tube of marine boat trailer wheel bearing grease and go crazy till the joint is totally flushed, this stuff is the best defense against moisture --------- in applications like this it's not about reading a grease tube and buying the grease with the best pressure ratings - it's about protection.

Chester
08-31-2011, 07:26 PM
If that sleeve is open ended, I'd make a couple of thick bars to fit the other side of that square tubing and try to crank it out with a socket pulled in with some heavy threaded rods across that socket.

914Wilhelm
09-07-2011, 09:47 PM
I was at the local HF store today and found this:
http://www.harborfreight.com/grease-fitting-unblocker-with-high-pressure-hose-97455.html
I've been needing to unblock some zerks on my backhoe and spotted this while isle cruising. I remembered this thread so added this comment. I'll give it a try and post my results.

914Wilhelm
09-08-2011, 08:01 PM
So on the backhoe I counted 36 zerks! I was able to grease 32 right off the bat and 4 were a no go. So I broke out the HF grease buster in the previous post and was able to get all of them cleared. Basically the thing is a 1/4" steel syringe with a grease fitting on the end. You pull out the plunger of the syringe, put oil in the barrel, put the plunger back in, invert it and then burp the air out. Then you put the grease fitting on the zirk and whack the plunger with a hammer. After driving 1/2 a plunger full of oil in any plugged zirk I was able to grease the zirks. I put this a "worth it" in my book. I'm sure anyone here could build one, the seal by the way is a O ring. I'll add a pic.

Abner
09-08-2011, 09:44 PM
Wilhelm....
While that may work I would use some caution. When I can't get a zerk to take grease I remove it - there is usually some hardened combination of old grease, dirt, and what (?) metal from the pin or sleeve (they wear out and that metal has to go somewhere). Loosening up the zerk with this HF contraption forces all that hardened stuff to some other place :o --- Cleaning it removes it.

psomero
09-08-2011, 10:20 PM
WD 40 is not the best penetrant. I prefer Kano Kroil. If you must use a commercial product anyway.
Joe


i'll second this...