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View Full Version : Tires that "won't take the bead" and air up. (ot)



Dawai
08-30-2011, 11:35 AM
I got my New Avon Tire for the bike in, THEY used to come from wholesalers with cardboard wedges in them, spiral wrapped in plastic.

This one, http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/ibewgypsie/DSCN2654.jpg
Came in bare, with no wedges, no tape, nothing but a shipping label.. IT was crushed flat.. Having dealt with this before? I learned to stick something wider than the beads on the rim and lay it in the sun (96F) to "stretch" back into shape.

Otherwise? I have to shoot ether in it and explode it onto the rim beads, then air it up real fast before it goes back flat and Springs off the rim beads. Yes, I have burned a few up and worse.. (who needs eyebrows)

I like Avon tires on my Roadking, they work. This is the first complaint in a brit made tire. (bloody blokes are messin with me) IZ dat U John??

Scottike
08-30-2011, 11:48 AM
The pros use an inflatable "constrictor" wrapped around the outside of the tire to help the spread the bead open and give a better seal to the rim when they inflate the tire.
You might be able to do the same thing with a ratcheting tiedown strap, place it around the tire and tighten the squat out of it. Or a piece rope, a bar of some sort, and make a "Spanish Windless"

edit: Make sure your you have a firm grip on bar as you tighten it, and that it positively can't spring free when you get tightened down, like any winch handle under load, it can break bones if it's allowed to freewheel.

Guido
08-30-2011, 12:15 PM
Had a nice enough fella working for us, always wore a big, bush mustache. Actually never thought too much about, but then got to wondering why he went by the nickname of Boomer Lip.

--G

lynnl
08-30-2011, 12:19 PM
You might be able to do the same thing with a ratcheting tiedown strap, place it around the tire and tighten the squat out of it. Or a piece rope, a bar of some sort, and make a "Spanish Windless"

.

I've used the ratcheting tie down strap method several times for such as wheelbarrows, riding mowers, ATVs, etc. Works great.
Not quite as fast as the inflatable straps (I worked at a Sears tire shop in my college years), but every bit as effective.

gary350
08-30-2011, 12:40 PM
Oxygen Acetylene works great to put a tire on the rim. Turn on the torch and adjust it for the perfect blue flame then turn the acetylene tank off until the flame goes out. Turn the tank on again now you have the perfect explosive mixture. Fill the tire with the gas mix stand back and throw a match on it. BOOM the tire is instantly on the rim.

Tire shops have a strap they put around the center of the tire. You pull it tight it causes the sides to go out.

A.K. Boomer
08-30-2011, 12:44 PM
Its been so long I forgot about the inflatable straps I used to use for the tubeless till you guys just reminded me,

had to substitute with the tie down straps years later but they can work too, if you get one close just hit the middle outside into the rim with a heavy rubber mallet wile applying air to valvestem and this should push it over the edge...

now I remember how much of a PITA they can be :(

saltmine
08-30-2011, 01:00 PM
I seem to recall some time ago, in my youth, we had a tire that wouldn't seat on the rim. One of my friends at the time was a bit of a pyromaniac, and he suggested using lighter fluid. It was tried, but didn't have sufficient "boom" to get the job done. So, we moved on to acetylene & oxygen. When I worked in a muffler shop we used to make small bombs with 1/3 pt milk cartons and oxyacetylene, so I knew how to get the mix right. The tire was appropriately filled up, and touched off by a spark plug wired to a nearby motorcycle's ignition coil. The resulting blast not only seated the bead of the tire, but blew the rest of the tire off, taking the guy's garage door along with it. When our ears stopped ringing, we decided to beat a hasty retreat to the local bowling alley for refreshments, and avoid the guy's Dad, who was due home in minutes.....

Peter.
08-30-2011, 01:16 PM
I've never failed to inflate a tyre on a bike rim. Just remove the valve insert and put your inflator on the valve, then stand the wheel up on the tyre and bounce it gently whilst rotating the wheel a bit with one hand whilst holding the trigger on the inflator with the other.

Once the tyre is partially seated let the air out, fit the valve insert and inflate.

Dawai
08-30-2011, 01:36 PM
A motorcycle tire is kinda thin.. narrow..

IF the MC tire is "crushed thinner than the bead" a ratchet strap will not work.
When you tighten the strap, it just folds the tire over sideways.. a "wider" tire such as a car/mower tire will of course not follow this theory. THOSE work just great.

Taking the valve core out, hitting it with a 5lb mallet works if it "almost seats".. it will jump on the bead.. bouncing it, same ole.. I've been on my knees praying to the god of Milwaukee for one to seat before.. (kinda like when I prayed to the porcelain throne and the drunk god RALFF.)

Dually tires?
Dark-thirty, wrecker call.. I ran the rear tire off the wrecker, it was near flat and I tried to drive it across the back yard to the air hose.. I laid down in the snow, put the winch cable around it, pulled it tight squishing the beads back onto the rim.. I then aired it up about forty.. and released the cable.. then I noticed I had laid in frozen dog poo.. and it was thawing.. I left my clothes in the yard, told them to call someone else.

I normally just explode them.. ether.. then put the fire out.

NOW putting them on?? I got some "sex lube".. KY jelly works great.. rub it around the bead and it will near POP onto the rim.. I threw a 19" at a rim on the floor.. and it jumped all the way on.. I checked to just make sure it was the right size.. it was. If you got on "hard heeled boots".. you can get a 19, 21 started, and heel walk them around the rim, not pry at all. The old tube types? you put the tube in with one side on, halfway air it up, bounce it, all the wrinkles come out of the tube, then let the air out and heel walk it on.. done, no pinches..

A tire jumping on? *that's kinda like retarding the ignition on a old harley, and it cranking without kicking it over... It's done it once or twice in my 37 years of riding them. (motor is on compression, and you fire plugs, round she goes) A good engine will not "sit on compression, just wore out ones". And.. don't ask a old grey bearded biker what "sex lube is doing in the workshop". (for pulling rubber grommets into holes with wires in them) Don't think dirty.. KY was a rubber lube long before it was a sex lube.. It sure does make the lil girls faces red tho.. Dirty lil minds..

I'm gonna have a nap, then retrieve this tire from the yard.

Carld
08-30-2011, 01:51 PM
Stick an inner tube of the appropriate size in it, inflate it as needed and leave it in the sun for a day.

Black_Moons
08-30-2011, 02:30 PM
Oxygen Acetylene works great to put a tire on the rim. Turn on the torch and adjust it for the perfect blue flame then turn the acetylene tank off until the flame goes out. Turn the tank on again now you have the perfect explosive mixture. Fill the tire with the gas mix stand back and throw a match on it. BOOM the tire is instantly on the rim.

O/A is a VERY violent explosive mixture. Many people have been harmed filling bags with the mixture and having it accidently (or perposefuly) ignite/detonate. I would think even air+ether would be way safer if you wanna 'explode' it onto the rim.

Willy
08-30-2011, 02:43 PM
Speaking of O/A mixtures...
Funny that this guy hasn't blown his eyeballs out yet!:eek:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8fe_1314622443

Dawai
08-30-2011, 04:39 PM
Yeah, it used to be Balloons filled with a good mix.. then flip a match at it.. Imagine a dozen drunk bikers doing that? THEN, while sober the next day I get to replace windows.

THIS TIRE, Crisis is over.. I brought it inside, where it is cool, pulled the cans, the tire is "crushed" flat no more. Is that "rubber" forming like the old rubber molds when casting? OR related to??

T-morrow, I get to put er on.. and ride er off.

sasquatch
08-30-2011, 06:54 PM
GOOD HEAVENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



What a "WASTE" of KY jelly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rolleyes:

ahidley
08-30-2011, 07:20 PM
You need one of the tire inflator bead seaters. Its a 10 gallon air tank with an exaust pipe welded to the side with a 2" ball valve. The end of the exaust pipe is flattened alittle. Ya point that bitch at the bead and open the valve and in 1 second the tank is empty and the bead is seated. They sell for about $300 but you can make one from a HF 10 gallon tank and a 2" HF ball valve and a foot of your buddies exaust for about $30 on sale..... I made one and it works AWSOMWE.......

KIMFAB
08-30-2011, 07:55 PM
Like this

http://www.mile-x.com/cheetah-ch-5-bead-seater.aspx

Ether is much more fun tho. :D

Dawai
08-30-2011, 08:01 PM
Beleive it or not some of the cheaper brand tires come with the cardboard in them.. Avon & Metzeler do not… If you have any issues we will swap it for you. We mount them all the time with our tire machine but I can see it being difficult if your doing it at home.

Thank You,

Dave



A::
YEAH, Puffer tank.. I made one to "shoot tennis balls". (era 2000?). I don't remember if I posted the results or not.. it'd hit so hard the tennis balls would burst. *made it to shoot drunks with.. who had potato guns shooting at my place. Doing the "flapper" valve that was pilot operated.. I think I copied one... the best ones open in a fraction of second a ball valve opens at.

That much air will fold your eyelids over your cheeks.. (don't ask)..

sasquatch
08-30-2011, 08:22 PM
Dave you,d make a great neighbour!!!

(My kind of neighbour!!):)

Carld
08-30-2011, 10:42 PM
Dawai, life would indeed be interesting living next to you. I have a feeling I would spend a lot of time at your place or vice versa.

psomero
08-30-2011, 10:53 PM
in the past, i've been told to try a ratchet strap around the OD of the tire. i think a careful balance of strap tension and tire pressure is required as you increase pressure until the bead pops into seat

then again, we have a tire bead seating machine at work, in addition to a tire balancing rig, so i'm probably not the one to ask...

AussieChris
08-30-2011, 11:02 PM
For home use, the best thing is a tyre “snake” (also called a doughnut ring). It’s a circle of soft foam rubber that fits neatly between the tyre bead and rim filling the gap that the air is coming out of. When you inflate the tyre, the snake gets pushed out as the bead contacts the rim and then just continue inflating until both beads pop into place.

Just to give you the idea…

http://www.thehellteam.com/catalogue/c18/c32/p133

You can bodgy up something similar using foam pipe insulation.

This PDF is for trials motorcycles but it gives you the idea on pages 18-20

http://www.shercousa.com/pdfs/tubeless_tire_changing_manual.pdf


Chris
Brisbane, Australia

Dawai
08-31-2011, 05:37 AM
Tyre Snake

This makes changing those rear tubless tyres SOOOOO much easier!
Pop it around the rim before you pump up the new black rubber thingy, and presto it's on the bead. No more dicking around with ratchet straps and compressors going wild at 150 psi, cursing and swearing.
THESE ARE GOOOOD!


Thanks.
Yeah.. I want one.. I'll look to see what happened with that puffer tank too.
PDF demonstrates the heel-walking around the tire method of putting it on. A 16" HD tire requires more effort tho. I got quality tire spoons I bought $ 9 each. I'm not so set in my ways I won't look for a better method than the way I have done it.

Tire machine? no.. I used to get down in the floor, put my knees on the tire to hold one side in the deep part of the rim, then pry it all around till it pops on. There was a HF tire changer left here, I found a way to mount it without being permanant floor space thief. It has a 2x2 tube welded on it and slides into the english wheel tool post mount. OR a truck trailer hitch, or the welding table. I've used it three times now and it's a keeper. You just need the "top part" HF motorcycle adapter like that. Anyone changing car tires at home needs their head examined.

I'll take a picture for you guys if anyone wants to see how I mounted it, the round tube is too thin and it'll tear out, you gotta mount it to the triangulated tubes. It has not been painted yet and is ugly.

bruto
08-31-2011, 08:47 AM
The snake works better on a stiff radial tire than the ratchet strap or the like on the tread. I don't know about the MC tire, but radials tend not to expand so nicely. On stiff car or truck tires, I've gotten away with a small inner tube, such as a boat trailer tube, partially inflated in the place of a snake. The goal here is to seat the bead opposite the tube, and then extract the tube. The second bead will then seat if you run enough air into it while wiggling and bouncing the tire. If I had to do this more often, I'd go for a proper snake.

kendall
08-31-2011, 01:05 PM
My technique is to get one side of the bead seated tightly by placing rim on blocks and walking the bead down. Then flip the tire/rim over and placing blocks under the edge of the tire and step on the center of the rim will most often push the other bead against the rim so it will start taking air.

I'll second the tube idea also, just over inflate it so the bead is farther apart than it needs to be and let it sit in sun for a while.

Dawai
09-02-2011, 07:45 PM
BOTH the new avon and the old DUNLOP I had for the parts bike aired right up after stretching in the sun. THE front Dunlop on the Roadking had a shoulder on the sidewall about 3/8" thick right above the rim.. It was very hard to get off the bead. It fought me all the way off the rim. THE avon popped right on, the old dunlop popped on.. Both had slick em on it. THE avon went on nearly without prying. A good rubber.

I just left positive feedback for the ebay avon tire.

So.. use dog food cans, lay the tire in the Georgia sun for a whole day at 95degrees and no problems.. THEY are molded like this, but crushing remolds them to a new shape.

lynnl
09-03-2011, 11:12 AM
For home use, the best thing is a tyre “snake” (also called a doughnut ring). It’s a circle of soft foam rubber that fits neatly between the tyre bead and rim filling the gap that the air is coming out of. When you inflate the tyre, the snake gets pushed out as the bead contacts the rim and then just continue inflating until both beads pop into place.

Just to give you the idea…

http://www.thehellteam.com/catalogue/c18/c32/p133

You can bodgy up something similar using foam pipe insulation.

This PDF is for trials motorcycles but it gives you the idea on pages 18-20

http://www.shercousa.com/pdfs/tubeless_tire_changing_manual.pdf


Chris
Brisbane, Australia

I've never used or even seen one of the tire snakes, but one possible source for making one up, would be "backer rod", sold in the paint and caulking sections of Lowes/HD, etc.

It comes as a package of coiled foam round rod, in diameters up to 3/4", lengths probably 8-10ft. Intended for filling in gaps prior to caulking and painting. Should be an easy matter to cut a piece and tape the ends together to make a ring of just the right size.

Don't remember prices, but it isn't much.

dhammer
09-03-2011, 03:34 PM
Get yourself a tub of Murphys Tire Soap..use it like caulking between the rim and tire, remove the valve core and hook a clip on chuck to the valve..scrape off excess tire soap as the tire inflates and return it to the bucket..works everytime.

Bill736
09-04-2011, 01:10 AM
Wheelbarrow tires can be a pain to reseat . On one of these forums, I saw one man's solution ; He placed the tire and wheel over a 5 gallon bucket, and plugged the axle hole . He then filled the tire with air, and the pressure buildup inside the 5 gallon bucket seated first the top bead, and then the bottom bead. The idea is to create a seal between the tire and the top rim of the bucket. I personally have grown tired of refilling my two wheelbarrow tires, and have gone to " no-flat" type foam filled types. I've tried the green slime type of leak sealer on my wheelbarrows and riding mowers, and it does work for a couple of years, but then starts to leak again. I may try adding more slime to the riding mower tires.

Dawai
09-04-2011, 05:45 AM
I've been told by two people now that the "tire slime" is Just Latex paint.
That makes sense to me.. also that it is not a speed rated repair. It'd be bad out of balance. If I knew for sure? I'd build a 2" pipe nipple with air valve on bottom and filler w/cap and air chuck. That way you could clean it out.

A local shop wanted $100 to change a tire with flat fixer in it. He said it made such a mess on the tire machine it took hours to clean up.

That tire "foam" like they use on excavators would be the ideal solution. I can not purchase it in less than 55 gallon containers tho. Used to be SynAir products, Chattanooga Tn.. not sure who has the patent on it now.

All the chinese tires on my property are flat except for the 4 on the Honda fit, and they make bad-bearing noises.. crappy seam in the molding process.