Rockwell 11x25 opinions? Tips for inspecting?

[T.Hoffman]

I've been watching for a nice "basement" lathe for my home use, something that isn't too terribly big and I can dismantle into pieces to get down/up my questionable staircase.

I came across a Rockwell 11" lathe with the shorter bed which looked promising, but wanted to check with others here about what I should be looking for.







Talked to the owner a bit, he thinks everything is original- he's had it in his garage for the last 10yrs and is now moving up to a larger lathe. Thinks it was made in 1969. I asked about the cabinet, as I've not seen any cabinet like that under a Rockwell lathe in searching info about the unit. Owner indicated that this was built for Navy use, and as far as he knows it is the original cabinet for those units. It was missing the panel in front of the motor/belt side and he put the sheetmetal panel on there.

He said there is some amount of backlash on the unit, but has never replaced the leadscrew or nut. Comes with two chucks, taper attachment, and manual.
I see in the pics it has the "flame hardened" ways decal on there.

Would this unit from 1969 have the L-00 spindle?
I've read the 11" Rockwell is a better unit than the 10" model. Looking for input from owners of this model, your thoughts, and what things I should look for when I go for a visit. Asking price is $1200.

[BadDog]

That lathe looks really nice, but looks can be deceiving.

Take the lid off the headstock and inspect the gears for broken teeth. The large (back) gear in particular. This is often broken by trying to shift with the spindle still turning. Also look at the shifter fork and other obvious areas for damage.

Other than obvious damage or wear issues on the bed ways, cross slide, and compound. Also check that the tail stock ram is worn or damage, including the inside MT3 taper. Make sure it comes with the L00 spindle spanner, and remove the chuck to inspect the taper area and key. If available, put the spindle bushing in and mount a center in the headstock. If not, use the chuck and mount a piece of scrap to turn a quick ~60 center in the chuck. Then put an MT3 center in tail stock and check for vertical misalignment. Should be near perfect vertical alignment, and you can check this with a scale, though if horizontal is off (can adjust) it can confuse things.

If no other issues present, set the tumbler for power feed and select a suitable feed rate. The lever under the cross slide selects long or cross power feed. Up is cross, down is long, center is neutral. The cam lever at the bottom is the power feed clutch lever. With the saddle well clear of any obstruction, the lathe running at modest speed (say 500 rpm or slower), the feed lever down (long feed), then engage the clutch. The saddle should start moving smoothly. At the top back of the saddle there should be a square head screw. This is the saddle lock. While the saddle is feeding, engage it carefully to present some drag to see if the clutch slips. BEFORE doing this, it would be a good idea to check and make sure the under side of the front way is clear, and maybe test the strength of the lock. You don't want to over do it, but you do want to make sure the clutch will hold. When I got mine the clutch teeth were all but gone. It would power feed until there was any load, then it would slip. That piece is hard to find (and expensive), or hard to make for most people. If you can, it would be good to look behind with a mirror to see that the clutch is in good shape, but not knowing what you are looking for that could be a problem, particularly with the accumulated grime. If you buy it, I would pull the apron to clean and inspect, it tends to accumulate all sorts of mess back there, particularly in the "oil well".

Finally, look inside the cabinet at the Reeves under drive. Inspect the belt condition, and look for obvious broken/repaired/worn/loose areas. Watch it while running and changing speeds. If there is a problem, it should present pretty obviously.

[BadDog]

Oh, and yes it's L00. The 11 is IMO far superior to the 10". It has MUCH heavier bearings and a large spindle that will pass 1.375 stock and take 5C collets directly in the spindle with a bushing (try to get it with the lathe, somewhat hard to find). Also try to get steady and follow rests if possible, they are very well made and also hard to find/expensive. Same for the taper attachment.

I sold mine some time back, and now have a lathe far better suited for my needs (17x60 7.5hp), but actually still miss my Rockwell from time to time. It's got a great little double-throw threading feature on the cross slide. I would go so far to say that other than the top line 10EE, Rivette, and HLV level of true "tool room" lathes, it is the equal or superior (in rigidity and features) to any other lathe in it's "light industrial" size/class. And that includes the all Atlas, Craftsman, Logans and Southbends. I think Sheldon is comparable. Some similar sized Clausing are comparable or even a little better, others fall short. And that doesn't begin to cover the hundreds of names I can't think of at this moment. This is my opinion, and there are those that would certainly argue the point with me, but if I were looking for another lathe in that class, it would almost have to be Rockwell or Sheldon or one of the better 12" Clausings (or comparable).

[J Tiers]

I agree with baddog....... Rockwell, Sheldon, and then on to Monarch etc.

It is a very nice machine, if you have used a "boiled spaghetti" machine like Atlas or small Southbend, you won't believe how nice it is.

The one I messed with, the carriage might have as much metal as the bed of an Atlas.

[T.Hoffman]

Great info- much appreciated!

I was wondering about that base cabinet, and wondering if it really was the original as I've never seen one with drawers like that on a Rockwell.

Well, I was digging around the net as much as I could about this model, and I came across the full manual for the "Army 11" Rockwell lathe". Low and behold the picture in the manual:



Guess that answers that question for sure.

....and take 5C collets directly in the spindle with a bushing (try to get it with the lathe, somewhat hard to find). Also try to get steady and follow rests if possible, they are very well made and also hard to find/expensive. Same for the taper attachment.

There's part of the problem for me, the owner has none of these accessories. No follow rest, no steady, not collet holder. It DOES have the taper attachment which is nice, but I'd trade that for the other more important stuff. If the machine checked out nice and it did indeed have all the toys with it, I'd jump all over it at that price.

I guess that could be a bargaining chip if I like the machine- the fact that to go out and find these extra accessories would end up spending hundreds more after the sale. I don't think $1200 is sky-high, but could be too much without all the toys that *should* come with it. Doesn't even come with a tool holder.

The hardest part for me (and I know myself) is that I have to be prepared to walk away on the deal if it isn't right..... I've wanted a quality smaller lathe like this for some time, and they have been tough to find locally in decent shape.

[T.Hoffman]

......and I think I see the spindle spanner wrench laying in the tray in the pictures.

[HWooldridge]

I had a 1946 10x24 Sheldon with the exact same cabinet and it supposedly came from a Navy oiler/tender ship - so I would agree that it is original. Mine had a hinged door in front of the motor.

I sold my Sheldon for $1200 with three chucks and a steady rest - you might get this one for less if you show up with cash in hand but it always boils down to what someone is willing to pay. It looks like a very nice lathe - will the owner let you cut a bar to check finish and tolerance on a cut?

[sidegrinder]

I see you live in WI. Im in Cleveland and have had an 11" Rockwell for a few years now. They are great machines and dont come up for sale very often. I would hightly recommend one. Depending on the running condition, $1200 really isnt all that steep a price. Good luck,
Rob.

[Scottike]

That 11" looks good in the photos, if the machine checks out for you in good condition, I wouldn't let the lack of a steady rest stop you. You should
be able to find one from a comparable sized lathe and adapt/make it work for you.
The taper attachment is a Big Plus!, Don't trade it off, you'll probably regret it down the road, they are rare for Rockwells.
But all that being said, as a Rockwell owner myself (10"), new parts are not available, and used can hard to locate. (Joe at Plaza Machinery is one good source). But there seem to be more parts available for the 11" than my 10".
The varible speed drive is a great feature to have, and should be checked that it operates smoothly and evenly (only when powered, don't adjust with the machine off).
The price seems high for amount of tooling you'd be getting with the lathe, but that seems to vary depending on the part of the country your in.

edit: I just noticed that the lathe is a 24" bed, I feel the price he's asking would be more in line for a 36", and as I said before - it's high for what your getting, at least around here.

[T.Hoffman]

will the owner let you cut a bar to check finish and tolerance on a cut?

I believe so, although have not asked for sure. It is still powered up and able to use from what I understand.

They are great machines and dont come up for sale very often.

....same along my lines of thinking. That can command a bit higher price I suppose, but if it all checks out and I have ten crisp green Benji's in my hand I think he would bite.

One other nice thing is that the guy will load it for free, he has a forklift available.

I like taking on "projects", and restoring something like this could be right up my alley.
I was impressed and a little motivated by what I read/saw in these pics this Rockwell owner posted about his restoration of a 10":

http://www.gadgetbuilder.com/Rockwell/Rockwell.html

I like the idea of the enamel paint and hardener he used. Looks great!

[Scottike]

If you decide to go with it, here's a good source of info:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RockwellLathe/

[portlandRon]

For that price go for it. Collet holders and steady rest are easy to find and or adapt, tapper attachments are not.
I tend to look at condition a little different then other posters have. Sure it's got backlash yes there may be some ware and dings in the bed and the tailstock may have some droop IT'S A USED LATHE. But it's 100 times better then no lathe. Get it, use it, buy tooling for it, then when something better comes along upgrade, keeping what tooling fits the new lathe.

[T.Hoffman]

Thanks for the link! More good info to read about.

I guess after I look at it and assess the condition to the best of my abilities, I know I will still be see-sawing back and forth on whether to buy or pass on it in hopes of finding another machine.

Over the years I've come to a good way to decide on such things for myself. If I think it is priced a little too high and he won't move, I usually will pass on it and wait a while to see if it sells. The deciding factor for me when taking into account all the details and price is I ask myself, "If it is sold when you call back, will you be disapointed or mad you didn't get it?"

If the answer is yes, then I will buy it then and there. If the answer is no, then I know the price is too high for me at the time.

[noah katz]

I had the 36" long version of that lathe, which I replaced with a PM1236, which is way more rigid; the Rockwell's carriage deflected a lot if the bit was dull etc.

But the PM cost $3K.

[gzig5]

I saw that earlier this week and thought it would be worth investigating, but I just sold my 14" Rockwell to make some room. I've got some L00 spindle tooling left over if you do get the lathe and are interested. Plus, I should be close to you so no shipping.
Greg