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radkins
09-02-2011, 12:46 PM
A farmer friend of mine came by and asked if I could harden a bolt for him that is used as a pin in a mowing machine. These bolts tend to wear rapidly even when using a grade 8 bolt. I am not sure what material is used for a grade 8 bolt but I was thinking maybe I could harden one of these (3/4" bolt BTW) with the "Cherry Red" compound I got recently and hopefully not reduce it's shear strength too much. The hole through the parts the bolt fits has work hardened and appears to be wearing very little but the bolt wears fairly rapidly and then shears when it gets reduced to about 50% or 60% of it's original size. A hardened pin could be used I guess with some modification but in this case a bolt with a nut is the ideal set-up if we can solve or even just slow the wear process.

lazlo
09-02-2011, 12:49 PM
Real grade 8's (not the Home Depot/Tractor Supply Company imports) are heat treated chromoly. You'll be hard pressed to surpass the mechanical qualities.

Mcgyver
09-02-2011, 01:16 PM
Real grade 8's (not the Home Depot/Tractor Supply Company imports) are heat treated chromoly. You'll be hard pressed to surpass the mechanical qualities.

agreed, even if you could, would you want the bolt to last and the hole not? if its in a easily replaced wear part who cares, but if its the frame or whatnot I'd want to keep buying bolts

if its wearing that fast there has to be a bunch of force & friction, kind of amazing that the grade 8 wears away but not the frame (or whatever material)? if work hardening produces some thing that much tougher than a grade 8 bolt, sounds like we need to figure out how to bottle that!

maybe a plate with a bush 4 or 5x as long as the existing mate welded on with a zerk for grease is the way to go....correct the failure of the original design?

garagemark
09-02-2011, 01:31 PM
Without knowing the exact application, I too would just treat this bolt as a consumable and save the framework. Is it very hard to change the bolt?

A true grade 8 bolt is pretty darn tough. Hard to imagine the framework taking the abuse better than a good bolt or pin.

Mark

Carld
09-02-2011, 01:53 PM
As others said, the 8 grade bolt is harder than anything you will make. What is wrong with replacing the bolt on a regular schedule. Nothing lasts for ever and it sounds like he doesn't want to do any preventive maintenance. Does he even lube and service the tractor on a regular schedule?

There is no way your not going to have to fix or repair a tractor and it's attachments on a regular basis. He needs to replace the bolts as they wear.

Another thought is, which would he rather replace, the bolt or rebuild the holes where the bolt goes through? He will have to do that soon enough without making it happen sooner.

Since I own and use a tractor and many attachments quite often I fully know what is involved and would much prefer replacing bolts than rebuilding the holes the bolts go through.

radkins
09-02-2011, 02:12 PM
This is not a lubed connection and runs dry. Since posting this I went back and looked at the thing and there are hardened inserts where the bolt goes through, I had to scrape away several layers of paint to see this. Also I think maybe a better solution will be to add another link to this outfit and distribute the load instead of trying to increase the wear resistance at an obviously over-loaded point, in any case I will take everyone's advice and not be attempting to try and harden any bolts for this thing.

macona
09-02-2011, 02:18 PM
The bolts are supposed to be somewhat shearable. This allows a blade to come off before you break something expensive, like the gearbox.

Black_Moons
09-02-2011, 03:12 PM
What about replacing it with something like a shoulder bolt, or one thats not threaded the whole length, so that the wear area will be on a 'solid' shaft of the bolt, and not the threaded section. (assuming its not like that allready)

lazlo
09-02-2011, 03:15 PM
I went back and looked at the thing and there are hardened inserts where the bolt goes through, I had to scrape away several layers of paint to see this. Also I think maybe a better solution will be to add another link to this outfit and distribute the load

Is the bushing worn, and the bolt is slapping around inside it?

Evan
09-02-2011, 03:17 PM
Any good mechanical design has an intentional weak point that saves the rest of the system from damage. Bolts and pins are often that weak point. I designed my Land Rover snowplow attachment that way and I have sheared the several bolts that serve that purpose more than once. Make that weak point stronger and something else will become the weakest link.

radkins
09-02-2011, 04:08 PM
Is the bushing worn, and the bolt is slapping around inside it?


Yes it is a loose fit and I am sure that has a lot to do with it. This not supposed to be a weak point it's just a connecting point for some lift linkage and simply is not up to the task. I have already discussed, and been given the go-ahead, to scrap this single point connection and replace it with twin connectors that will not only spread the load to two bolts instead of one but will also eliminate a slight twisting movement. I don't know what they were thinking when they designed this thing but it's very obviously poorly engineered.

gary350
09-02-2011, 05:12 PM
Maybe you should try grade 12 or grade 15 bolts.

WW Granger lists Socket Head Cap Screws at grade 12 3/4 and McMaster Carr lists SHCS at grade 12 1/2.

Aircraft bolts are grade 15.

Carld
09-02-2011, 05:19 PM
Yes, I have rebuilt a few of my attachments because they were built to light for the job or they were poorly designed probably to cut costs.

CCWKen
09-02-2011, 05:55 PM
Grade 8 bolts aren't THAT hard. I have about 200-250lbs left from an auction and use them for stock all the time--Mostly for sheet metal forming dies. They turn down easily with a carbide tool. And they're all made in USA.

Mcgyver
09-02-2011, 05:58 PM
Any good mechanical design has an intentional weak point that saves the rest of the system from damage. Bolts and pins are often that weak point.

he's not talking about a shear pin, he's talking about rapid wear. It shears when its worn to 50%, so its hardly shearing as part of the design.

Willy
09-02-2011, 06:04 PM
While I certainly subscribe to the idea of leaving a disposable weak link in a system and won't argue against the concept of a cheap fuse. There are more durable fasteners than grade 8 available for situations that require them.
I have quite a few of these types in stock, FedAlloy grade 12 and Supertanium bolts, both used here a lot in the logging and forestry industries.


http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j31/250willy/69ce64a2.jpg

lazlo
09-02-2011, 06:29 PM
Yes it is a loose fit and I am sure that has a lot to do with it.

Can you modify a shoulder bolt to take up the worn slack?

radkins
09-02-2011, 06:48 PM
Can you modify a shoulder bolt to take up the worn slack?



Yes I could and that was my original intention, or at least I was going to use a bigger bolt after enlarging the holes a bit more so one would fit, enlarging those holes was considered before I discovered the hardened inserts however. After discussing this with the owner we just decided to modify this set-up with a bracket on either side instead of just one in the center because doing this would be much better than anything I could use in the original design.