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View Full Version : Monarch 10ee "project", too ambitious?



T.Hoffman
09-03-2011, 07:31 PM
Found a 10ee, owner died and had taken apart a 40's era machine for either moving it or repainting. It had been fully functional, but now has lots of boxes of parts.

Has 3 jaw, 4 jaw, collect chuck, faceplate, collect set, taper attachment, and some tooling.

Was considering this as a long range project, years possibly. Guy is asking $1200. I've never used a 10ee, but have lusted.

Biting off more than I can chew?

http://images.craigslist.org/3ka3mf3l25Z25T55S2b8l940cd6a664e414e7.jpg

dp
09-03-2011, 07:38 PM
Somebody needs to do it. That's a hell of a good price if all the parts are still there.

Chuck K
09-03-2011, 07:47 PM
I talked with the owner about this machine a couple of months ago. He couldn't assure me that the parts were there. It sounded like a lot of money for a parts machine. There is some good stuff that comes with it. Good luck with it if you decide to purchase. Post pics of your project as it progresses. I'd be real interested in watching your project. Chuck

T.Hoffman
09-03-2011, 08:00 PM
That's part of the problem, I didn't see how it all came apart!

And that's assuming all the parts are there. Could be a big assumption but the guy selling indicated should be all there

Where I live now I can't even power the thing up. This would be a long range project for years down the road. The temptation is great....

beckley23
09-03-2011, 08:10 PM
I suggest that you post this on the Monarch forum at PM. There is a vast store of knowledge there.
Harry

Scottike
09-03-2011, 08:48 PM
As DP said "somebody's gotta do it". If you decide to jump on it, Here's a link that may help.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/monarch-lathes/wreck-update-146913/

The first part has to do mainly with scraping, but when you get farther in there's lots of pictures as to how things go together, come apart, & how repairs were done. A good read on lathe rebuilding even if you don't have a Monarch.

Edit: Sorry Beckley23, I didn't notice your name on your post. I apologize if I mis-stepped, but your thread was too good not to mention

T.Hoffman
09-03-2011, 08:57 PM
This has absolutely been the weirdest ten days of equipment shopping I've had. For the longest time nothing in prospects, and now all these different temptations come flying at me all at once....

My budget is still for my "basement lathe" that I started the other Rockwell 11" thread about, and I'm going to look at that on Monday.

BUT, I found this 10ee, and I keep wondering, "what if?" in my head.
What if everthing is there?
What it if it is fully operational, and I just need to put it all back together?
What if I could get a MONARCH for that price to use someday down the road?
I mean, I could scrape together enough scratch to take a chance on it.

...or, what if it is a total cluster, and becomes the biggest headache I could imagine.

Ugh.

HWooldridge
09-03-2011, 09:44 PM
Offer scrap price. If it turns into a headache, either part it out or haul it to the 'yard.

Scottike
09-03-2011, 10:17 PM
For a long term project - go for it! 5 or 10 Yrs from now it'll be worth all the more and be even more admired when it's done.

macona
09-03-2011, 10:44 PM
$1200 is too much for a round dial in pieces. If you are missing something then you will have to take time to search for it. Most parts can be found as there are at least a couple parted out per year. Also Monarch does have replacement parts. But the price of parts can vary from cheap to extraordinary.

The manual does have pictures of all the parts in roughly the location they are in so its not hard to figure out where they go.

gwilson
09-03-2011, 10:47 PM
That is an OLD model with the round dial. Looks like the whole drive system is missing,which is o.k.. You can install a VFD and a motor,but it will not be real cheap. The missing covers on the end cannot be bought. You'll have to find old ones that fit the early model. The early model is a 12" swing. Later square dial models are 12 1/2" swing,so I doubt that later covers would fit.

The bed is probably worn on a machine that old,even though it is hardened.

The 10EE is a very complicated lathe,not to be lightly undertaken unless you are a pretty knowledgable machinist.

Parts are VERY expensive from Monarch. Just the carriage handwheel,made of aluminum,is about $400.00.

T.Hoffman
09-04-2011, 12:10 AM
Got more pics from the seller, endcovers are there. Lots of boxes of parts..... made July 1940. 12.5" swing.

I think 8 bills might be a worthy crapshoot. You could at least most likely part it out at that price, if all else fails....

toolmaker76
09-04-2011, 12:15 AM
Is that a 30" machine? If so, they are kinda rare to begin with, most are 20". I am also in the process of restoring one, the previous owner died, had to start with boxes of parts.

The forum on Practical Machinist is excellent. There are a lot of threads there, they can get you up to speed pretty quick as to what you are in for. The 10EE is a bit different animal, to be sure, but what a machine!

If you have to replace the drive, you have a lot of options available as to what you can do. Again, that forum will give you a lot of information.

toolmaker76
09-04-2011, 12:19 AM
On second look at the picture, I can see where a lot is missing on the cross slide, leadscrew, etc. I would be sure those parts are there. Mine wasn't stripped down that far.

macona
09-04-2011, 12:36 AM
Its not a 30".

T.Hoffman
09-04-2011, 12:50 AM
http://www.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/temp/monarch1.jpg

http://www.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/temp/monarch2.jpg

http://www.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/temp/monarch3.jpg

http://www.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/temp/monarch4.jpg

T.Hoffman
09-04-2011, 12:50 AM
http://www.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/temp/monarch5.jpg

http://www.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/temp/monarch6.jpg

http://www.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/temp/monarch7.jpg

http://www.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/temp/monarch8.jpg

T.Hoffman
09-04-2011, 12:51 AM
http://www.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/temp/monarch9.jpg

http://www.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/temp/monarch10.jpg

http://www.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/temp/monarch11.jpg

macona
09-04-2011, 12:58 AM
Looks like probably everything is there. Its worth it for $1200 after all, especially with all the tooling included. The Sjogren chuck will sell for $300+ by itself.

Looks like it comes with the monarch cabinet too.

Just watch it when you move. Those big bolts are for the clamp which holds on the headstock to the bed. Put that back together before moving it.

It will be a good project.

-Jerry

Scottike
09-04-2011, 01:08 AM
Not that big of a deal in itself, but it looked liked the compound took a couple of good knocks, it makes me wonder how the ways looked?
edit: or were there two compounds there?

ken
09-04-2011, 01:53 AM
from what I see you could make your money back on parts. parts to look for quill and parts for the tail stock and back gear off the old motor Ken

lazlo
09-04-2011, 11:41 AM
As has been said, you need to check the wear on the ways, and the condition of the spindle. That lathe looks rode hard and put up wet.

If the ways are worn, you're talking $1200 to get it reground, plus the several hundred hours to rebuild the "basket case".

T.Hoffman
09-04-2011, 01:41 PM
...on my way to take a look this afternoon. Took a chance on a trailer rental and a 5 hour drive each way.

dp
09-04-2011, 01:57 PM
My approach to this particular project is just that. A project. I don't need a lathe and don't even have any real lathe projects that need to get done. I do this to keep active, and to keep the gray matter ticking over. Something like this would be ideal for me, because I don't actually need it to work well when reassembled :); it is the education and shop time involved that is the reward. That is the same motivation that caused me to rebuild an airplane that was built in 1946. Once it was flyable I really didn't have much interest in it - as a project it was fascinating.

I don't like making little engines - I'd be a terrible modeler - but I like learning things so I have made engine parts just to know how. I tried and succeeded in making a replacement cylinder for a Cox .049 engine just because I like the design. I don't even have a Cox engine anymore. My current RC plane is a battery powered flying rag (WildRC.com).

This machine is the ideal project for me - no hurry, no urgency, no great expectations or need, and if it is too expensive then it can be parted out for as much as it cost. So I'm envious of what it represents to somebody, even if it is a beater. I also know that between my age and health, the last thing I need to drag home and leave behind for my wife to deal with is a 2500lb iron brick. So I'll keep building flying rags.

daryl bane
09-04-2011, 01:57 PM
These lathes are a huge project to do "correctly" and by "correctly" I mean a machine that is as accurate and functional as a new one. If I am going to invest years rebuilding a machine, this seems only logical. I had written a big paragraph on restoration philosophy and all that crap, but hell, if you WANT to do it, go for it. Although the price seems a tad high for whats looks to be a well worn basket case. DP, you and me are similar, but I do want to build one of those little radial engines though. :)

dp
09-04-2011, 02:03 PM
Although the price seems a tad high for whats looks to be a well worn basket case.

This part surprises me - and it has been said before in this thread. But there are no pictures that show wear. It is an old machine in pieces, the paint is gone, but nothing is known about where it has been and what it has done.

Chances are good it is has been in a full production role all its life and is worn but that isn't known yet. The good news is should someone drag it home and discover the bed is cracked and it a worthless hulk it can be put on Ebay immediately, piece by piece, without even turning a wrench.

lazlo
09-04-2011, 02:20 PM
It is an old machine in pieces, the paint is gone, but nothing is known about where it has been and what it has done.

It's old, missing it's paint and in pieces. It's going to be worn.

But the OP is driving 10 hours plus gas going to look at it, and once he gets there, the seller knows he's spent 10 hours commuting, so he's committed :)
It will be a life event, one way or another ;)

T.Hoffman
09-04-2011, 02:20 PM
Guy selling it for the deceased man's family says it was in working order, and the owner had dismantled it for repainting I am told. Could be he got the paint scraped off that's why it looks so beat up .

The guy was a gunsmith before he passed away.

The drive unit is still there.

lazlo
09-04-2011, 02:23 PM
the owner had dismantled it for repainting I am told.

You don't really believe that, do you? No one's going to disassemble a functioning toolroom lathe unless it needed a complete rebuild.

T.Hoffman
09-04-2011, 02:29 PM
You ever been to faaar northern wisconsin for a full winter?

Yes there is a chance that could be true ;)

dp
09-04-2011, 02:43 PM
You don't really believe that, do you? No one's going to disassemble a functioning toolroom lathe unless it needed a complete rebuild.

There's conjecture and there's facts. We gots no facts, yet, and conjecture doesn't pay the bills.

lazlo
09-04-2011, 02:46 PM
There's conjecture and there's facts. We gots no facts, yet, and conjecture doesn't pay the bills.

I have a Ferrari 599 that I disassembled. There's nothing wrong with it, I just wanted to repaint it. Interested? :D

My other point is that you have zero negotiating power when you drive 10 hours to inspect a machine. They seller's going to tell you to take his offer or walk, knowing you have a 5 hour return drive.

dp
09-04-2011, 02:51 PM
It's old, missing it's paint and in pieces. It's going to be worn.

But the OP is driving 10 hours plus gas going to look at it, and once he gets there, the seller knows he's spent 10 hours commuting, so he's committed :)
It will be a life event, one way or another ;)

Of course there will be wear but that is not the same as worn out. Guessing at the condition is an interesting game but hardly useful in making a decision.

Pragmatically, and perhaps that is what you intend, the 10EE was an expensive lathe and it would have been expected to see a lot of work. But if this one had spent its entire life in a dust-free science lab turning out small accurate parts it can certainly be in better shape than on a production line in a room full of welders and grinders. Being from the midwest I expect the latter, but it just can't be known.

I love your imagination - we should collaborate on conspiracy theories over beers :)

dp
09-04-2011, 02:56 PM
I have a Ferrari 599 that I disassembled. There's nothing wrong with it, I just wanted to repaint it. Interested? :D

My other point is that you have zero negotiating power when you drive 10 hours to inspect a machine. They seller's going to tell you to take his offer or walk, knowing you have a 5 hour return drive.

I surely don't agree with that! I've done it and will do it again. I drove that far just to look at an anvil and left it in the dirt. Its days as a useful tool were far in its past.

I drove 6 hours to see the airplane I ended up buying. Still consider it one of the best days of my life. Had the seller not come down in price I'd have gone home without it. He wanted it out of his life.

So lets wait and see - it may be in need of lipstick or it may be a gem in the rough. Unless it was cracked somewhere I'd buy it sight unseen for reasons stated earlier, except for the burden it would put on my poor wife :)

lazlo
09-04-2011, 02:57 PM
But if this one had spent its entire life in a dust-free science lab turning out small accurate parts it can certainly be in better shape

Does that lathe look like it spent its entire life in a dust-free science lab turning out small parts? Why do you suppose they disassembled the machine, if it spent it's whole life in a lab?


I love your imagination - we should collaborate on conspiracy theories over beers :)

Don't know about imagination, but I have a bridge I want to sell you Dennis :)

Tony Ennis
09-04-2011, 03:03 PM
My other point is that you have zero negotiating power when you drive 10 hours to inspect a machine. They seller's going to tell you to take his offer or walk, knowing you have a 5 hour return drive.

For $1200, I wouldn't drive 10 hours and rent a trailer unless I was buying. With my truck, 10 hours at 50 MPH is $120 for fuel and what, $60 for the trailer? Call the travel expense $200.

What's the risk here? If he can't fix it he sells it for parts. If he can recoup 75% of his $1,400, his financial risk is $350. So, what we're saying is, "Is the Monarch worth $350 plus a crapload of time?"

If after inspection he decides to make the machine usable, he'll spend more. But that decision can be made after a careful analysis.

gwilson
09-04-2011, 03:14 PM
Obviously,that lathe,with the WELL chewed up compound,has not been used by a skillful,or caring operator for a significant part of its life. It most likely was used heavily during WWII. I doubt that whoever crashed the devil out of it bothered to lubricate it either. I'd pass on it. Wonder if the spindle still runs real true,or if the bearings are shot from the terrible abuse that lathe has seen.

T.Hoffman
09-04-2011, 03:21 PM
I already told him I'm not driving that far for an
unknown quantity at 1200 dollars.

Told him absolutely not more than
800 max, and that's if everything is there and in restoreable shape.

I also have no problem walking away if it's too much trouble, and I made it clear to him as well.

The deceased man's house is in the process of being sold, and I think they want the machine out of there. I feel I have a good negotiator power, what are they going to do with this thing if they want to sell the house?

dp
09-04-2011, 03:22 PM
Does that lathe look like it spent its entire life in a dust-free science lab turning out small parts? Why do you suppose they disassembled the machine, if it spent it's whole life in a lab?

Decontamination. :)

None of the trappings of its previous life are shown in the images - it may have been disassembled and stored in a chicken coop (seen old Harleys stored that way).


Don't know about imagination, but I have a bridge I want to sell you Dennis :)

It better be disassembled and sellable on Ebay for more than you're asking! :)

T.Hoffman
09-04-2011, 03:38 PM
I fully realize I'm walking into this knowing it could be a futile effort.

There's a whole lot of 'what ifs' in both directions on this thing.

I don't mind spending some gas money and a day of driving on taking a chance.

No guts, no glory. At least I'm taking a shot at it....

macona
09-04-2011, 03:39 PM
Obviously,that lathe,with the WELL chewed up compound,has not been used by a skillful,or caring operator for a significant part of its life. It most likely was used heavily during WWII. I doubt that whoever crashed the devil out of it bothered to lubricate it either. I'd pass on it. Wonder if the spindle still runs real true,or if the bearings are shot from the terrible abuse that lathe has seen.

Mine has similar chewing on the compound and it still runs true. Not to that degree though. And on both sides? Makes me wonder if someone trimmed the corners off at one point.

John Stevenson
09-04-2011, 03:52 PM
There is a guy in the UK makes a living buying old Myfords and breaking them.
He'll pay up to 500 for a reasonable lathe and a few bits.

That's 500 for a common or garden Myford but even so he'll get more than 500 for the bits or he wouldn't do it

That 10EE steady will fetch serious money, so will the taper turning attachment.

Long short is OK it's a project but I have seen others take more on in this forum for something nowhere near as nice.

Knowing how hard it is the the USA to get machines locally I say go for it.

Mike Burdick
09-04-2011, 04:18 PM
I'd go for it if all the casting were there!

Heck... $1200.00 isn't that big of risk ... that's about the cost of a weekend in Las Vegas if one doesn't consider their losses!:D

beckley23
09-04-2011, 04:18 PM
FWIW, I think TH is in the driver's seat on this one. The lathe is in pieces, it is in an estate sale, and the sellers are motivated, the price has come down, and I suspect it can get lower, and he can walk away if it's not as represented. With the tooling package he can recoup most, if not all of his expenses, and maybe a profit. It's beginning to look like a win-win situation to me; either he parts it out, or restores it.
TH may not yet be knowledgable about 10EE's, but there are the resources of the PM Monarch forum, where he has posted about this lathe, and has gotten some good responses.
Harry

lazlo
09-04-2011, 05:42 PM
Long short is OK it's a project but I have seen others take more on in this forum for something nowhere near as nice.

What projects were you thinking of John?

The intensive machinery rebuilds I've seen were on PM: Daryl Bane's amazing 10EE restoration, which was self-described as "lasting longer than most marriages", and Harry Beckley's various incredible "wreck" rebuilds.

TH won't know until he gets there how much of a project it is: how much wear, if the bearings are intact, if the drive works...

In a perfect world, it sat unused in someone's barn, the paint peeled off, and it just needs to be re-assembled. At the other extreme would be a worn bed and a dead drive. Chances are it's somewhere in between.

John Stevenson
09-04-2011, 06:04 PM
What projects were you thinking of John?



Lanes shaper restoration for one, nice rebuild and everyone was all over it.
Someone else posts a query and the same people are putting it down.

Has anyone else noticed the negativity just lately?

It's getting that you can't post on anything for getting jumped on.
We have some posting endless "Look at this, keep patting me on the back " posts and then slag off a $2 pair of vise grips.

A post on a guy with a home made lathe and copying attachment and the self declared H&S Nazi's are all over it like a rash.

I haven't posted much lately as it's all been just run of the mill endless motors and the only 3 or 4 interesting bits I can't post because of who the customer is or what they do

lazlo
09-04-2011, 06:16 PM
Lanes shaper restoration for one, nice rebuild and everyone was all over it.
Someone else posts a query and the same people are putting it down.

Lane got the shaper for free. But I agree, that was an outstanding restoration.


Has anyone else noticed the negativity just lately?

???

TH asked for opinions on whether it was worth restoration. Almost everyone said it depends on the condition. How is that negative?

The Artful Bodger
09-04-2011, 06:20 PM
It is not about the project, it is about the $1200.

If the money is reasonable for a year or so of recreational activity I would say go for it, if on the other hand this would mean the kids walking barefoot to school through the snow.........:o

An old friend told me I could have his old motorcycle, he had taken it apart and stored all the bits in a small shed that over 30 years had tumbled down until grass and weeds were growing through everything. He assured me it was all there so I took it away and began restoration. It was all there although some parts had to be replaced, maybe this lathe will be the same.

uncle pete
09-04-2011, 07:18 PM
T.Hoffman,
Probably it's redundant at this point as you've either bought it or decided not to, But I say go for it. If something like this interests you then why not? There's far worse things to blow money on without anything to show for it.

Daryl Bane's thoughts about rebuilding equipment "correctly" are the same as mine. There's far more to a machine rebuild than cleaning and paint to restore it's function and accuracy. That lathe deserves to be done right. There's many here including myself that are willing to spend 3 grand or more on a Chinese lathe. Yet a bed regrind/scrapeing would probably cost about the same and the job could be spaced out as you can afford it. Done right like a few I've seen here then you'd never want a better lathe. If my shop could handle the weight and that lathe was 5 hrs away I'd buy it. Yeah there's going to be much more further costs than what I've just mentioned but nobody ever said machine tools and machining were going to be a cheap hobby.:rolleyes:

Pete

gwilson
09-04-2011, 07:40 PM
What about your own negativity,John? You complain out of one side of your mouth that you can't post anything without getting jumped on. Then,you are being negative and complaining about ME posting some pictures of my work. Isn't that a bit hypocritical? You have posted pictures of your work,too. I haven't jumped on you for it. You are exactly a negative person yourself.

The ONLY thing you have ever had to say about any of my pictures is to say something negative,even though you know the work is very good. I have never said anything negative about any of your pictures. I believe I have complimented your little gear repair,and your gear cutter generator. What's your problem? Jealousy? Your mind is too full of hatred to say anything nice about my work,though I have complimented yours. Think about it,John.

How about you and your cohorts jumping on every thread that you know who put up. How's that for negativity and jumping on people's threads? Do you make nice telescopes,and take beautiful pictures of the stars? Do you know how to build a telescope with tracking devices for long exposures that are needed? It looks like a guy with a superior mind,to you,is a know it all. A guy who does beautiful work is a show off to you.

I have made some mistakes,but getting on your case for your continually picking on you know who wasn't one of them. That's why you hate me.

I suggest that you and others give the negativity a rest yourselves to make this forum a more pleasant place. What do you think?

I recall getting bitched at a while ago for giving my comments BUT NEVER POSTING ANY PICTURES OF MY WORK. So,not that I HAVE,I'm getting berated for doing so. A guy just can't win with you types,can he?

Well,I haven't put up pictures for some time now. Maybe time to put up some more.

Mr. Bulliss also has my permission to use any of my work he chooses in his magazine. So I am contributing in a real way.

I think much more posting of pictures would make this forum more enjoyable and interesting. If you don't like my pictures,too bad. You obviously don't have the education to appreciate artistic work. I suggest you cease to jump on a person who has much more knowledge than you do repeatedly. I'd rather learn from someone like that. All I see you do is put servos on rotary tables.

As for the $2.00 vise grips,if they didn't have the weld(which it seems they do have),it would just be $2.00 wasted. You know that perfectly well yourself if you have any judgement. I don't buy tools that I KNOW are going to fail. That is a non productive thing to do. I dislike throwing new tools in the trash because they failed. I hate waste. With the weld though,the little vise grips should be reasonably functional if used without too much pressure. Someone said their jaws bend out of whack.

vpt
09-04-2011, 07:57 PM
Hey I was looking at that lathe too. You could have stopped and picked me up on the way and dropped me off on the way back!

bvd1940
09-04-2011, 10:51 PM
There is one on FLEABAY:D with Reliable tool that is all together and don't look bad & i bet you can buy it for that price and not have a puzzle to put back together. Just my 2 cents worth.:cool:

J Tiers
09-04-2011, 10:56 PM
Of COURSE it is too big a project......

So what?

The worst thing that can happen is that you will find the bed is too far gone, and you will be "stuck with" all those 10EE parts to sell.

I don't even want to THINK about what a spindle, or internal headstock part might cost for a 10EE..... so I suspect you would do just fine buying as parts whether you put it together or not.

if it turns out to be "or not", you will be the "go-to" guy for parts for quite a while.... There are worse things.

macona
09-05-2011, 12:26 AM
The beds are hardened so most of the wear accumulates in the saddle which is not trivial to fix, but its heck of a lot easier to deal with than a worn bed. Mine had its bed reground in the 60's or so and there is zero wear on it. The saddle was down about 30 thou in the front corner though.

vpt
09-05-2011, 07:18 PM
So whats the word? Get it/didn't get it, good/bad? I hear it just sold!

aboard_epsilon
09-05-2011, 07:31 PM
he's still on his way there :D :D :D

http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/joecolquitt/trdone.jpg

all the best.markj

lazlo
09-05-2011, 07:39 PM
I'm curious as well. He cross-posted this request to the Monarch forum at PM, and got similar advice:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/monarch-lathes/monarch-10ee-project-too-ambitious-231760/

"From my perspective, it's all about the condition of the ways and saddle......"

"it would be major accomplishment to clean up and reassemble this lathe to working condition.

I have not done a job of this magnitude but would just WAG that a person with dedication and moderate skills might spend 4 to 6 months at this with this project more or less being your "day job.". I will admit that estimate could be wildly off but most likely off on the low side. "

Harry pointed out that it's a Sundstrand (hydraulic) drive -- the very first 10EE drive system Monarch ever sold, and a historic rarity. That also seems to imply the build date is early than 1940.

John Stevenson
09-05-2011, 07:51 PM
I'm curious as well. He cross-posted this request to the Monarch forum at PM, and got similar advice:



I have not done a job of this magnitude but would just WAG that a person with dedication and moderate skills might spend 4 to 6 months at this with this project more or less being your "day job.". I will admit that estimate could be wildly off but most likely off on the low side. "



Well I hope whoever posted that doesn't come knocking on my door looking for a job.

I don't think even Myfords famous lazy fitters could spin this out that long.

Chuck K
09-05-2011, 08:02 PM
I told the owner even if he could assure me it was all there, I couldn't come anywhere near 1200.00 for it. I was thinking more in the neighborhood of 500 if it had a complete tailstock....which I don't think it did. He couldn't show me pics of the drive. On the upside...it had a collet chuck and collets and some other stuff that I dont recall anymore. It appeared to be parts machine.

aboard_epsilon
09-05-2011, 08:14 PM
Remember fritz ..ive still not finished it..bought September 2005 ..one those pics shows the armature ..that's how it was when i picked it up ..these are the original eBay pics and all i had to go on .

that's why no one bid against me and i got it cheap.

mind you nowhere near $1200..this one cost 1

table just needs putting on ..need to source a coolant pump ..just not had time


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/fritz2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/fritz1.bmp

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/fritz4.bmp

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/fritz5.jpg

all the best.markj

T.Hoffman
09-05-2011, 11:02 PM
....story to follow after I get some food and a beer. ;)

http://www.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/monarch/monarch1.jpg

lazlo
09-06-2011, 12:17 AM
Congrats! :)

T.Hoffman
09-06-2011, 01:07 AM
Well, here's the story. The long version....

It has been a bizzare few days for me in the way of lathe shopping. I had been looking around for some time for a smaller basement lathe that I could dismantle and get down my questionable staircase. See the Rockwell 11" thread for that story (more to come on that too!).

I've only been working with lathes for three years or so, but have progressed quickly and have done some work that I'm quite proud of. I'm a sponge for information, and read all I can about techniques, proper way of performing operations, tips, tricks, and of course equipment in general. The internet is an awesome tool.

Quite a while ago while reading forums, I would see the term "10EE" pop up here and there. I didn't know really what it was, but like to investigate. Once I started reading more and more, I could see that the Monarch was quite a engineering marvel in the way of machining equipment. I would watch them pop up on Ebay once and a while, or on the odd listing of CL. I usually only check my surrounding areas as I'm not that pressed to find anything in particular. But I love "the best" of things, and have a great appreciation for well-designed equipment.

Last week I had made arrangements to see that Rockwell 11x25" for Monday (today). And as I was still cruising around CL, I remember glancing at an ad for this 10EE way up north. Looked like a basket case and didn't give it much thought. Well on Friday I made the mistake of surfing CL once again for any other smaller lathes that might compete with the Rockwell.

.....and I came across that Monarch ad again. Dammit. "Just call the guy and see what it is about", I told myself.

So I did- and got some info about the situation (this was Friday). I can at times be a bit obsessive-compulsive about things. Equipment usually. Or firearms it seems. Anyway, I went it full-on info searching about 10EE's quite a bit on Saturday. That's when I started this thread. I had told the guy on Fri that I might be interested in taking a peek at it and wondered if he was going to be around over the weekend. I had absolutely no intention of getting involved in a 10EE right now- I have no room for it, don't have a shop at home other than my basement, I don't even have power for it. But I think they are the coolest things around.

Skip ahead to arriving there yesterday. The house was empty except for the lathe in the garage, boxes of parts everywhere, and a small forklift to load the thing. Very good sign for me- I can guess owners want this thing gone.

So I give it my best look-over. From my somewhat inexperienced eye, I can see promising things, and some bad things.

The main ways look very nice, there is a ding right near the headstock, but not bad at all. Actually I was quite impressed for a 70yr old lathe to still have ways like that. The cross-slide has scoring on the left side, similar to other pics I've seen on the Monarch forum. Not good.

Tailstock guts seem to be there in a box. The taper attachement is very cool, and seems quite operational. 3-jaw, 4-jaw, collet-chuck, and faceplater are there. 16 collets in the cabinet on a lazy-susan type of arrangement within the cabinet. Lead screw looks in decent shape. Compound has seen better days.

Cabinet is in sad shape. Not sure if that is worth salvaging.

The drive unit covered in years of grime and filth, but actually seems like it could be in nice shape. Operational? who knows.

The head bearings rotate nicely, but I'm thinking I can hear more than I should from them.

Some of the covers have been primed with new paint, so it was in process of a paint job. From what I was told, this thing has been sitting disassembled for approx 7yrs while the owner moved from one place to the current location. Then the owner fell into worse health and never got back to it.

So as I fingered through all the boxes looking at parts, wondering what's missing, talking with the guy all along. Nice guy, but I was pointing out all the bad things about the mess.

Finally I said to him, "Well, I can see some serious issues here, and those are just things that are obvious to me. Who knows what things are hiding, missing, broken, or non-functional. I can't pay $800 for something as questionable as this."

He said he had a guy from Oklahoma interested in making the drive and I replied that's fine, and that's IF the guy makes the drive, who knows WHEN that will be, and IF he wants it. I'm here and I have a trailer.

I said I didn't want to insult him, but I could see $400 for this cluster. He didn't like that and told me how he could part this out on Ebay for more than that (very true). And in my mind I knew I really didn't need a project like this, so I was very confident and calm in my position. I said, "Well then maybe that is the best idea. Maybe you should part this out as it just might be too far gone for restoration. You can deal with listing each individual item, dealing with buyers, finding appropriate boxes and packing materials for each piece, going to the UPS office multiple times.... that's a pain, but you'd get some money for this no doubt."

I knew there is nice value in some of these parts whether I can get it functional or not. So I knew I could recoup investment if it doesn't work out, so I offered $500 and let him know that was it from me. No big deal for me to turn around and leave without it- as I explained to him it wasn't the money for buying the lathe, it was more of the unknowns and the months of headaches and frustrations that are ahead. Along with probable thousands of dollars. I really didn't need this.

So eventually he grumbled agreement at $500 and helped me load it. ;)

I brought along some shrink wrap as we had rain in the area all day and I didn't want all that road spray getting everywhere if I could help it.

Well, now I can say I'm the proud owner of a Monarch 10EE! .....in some unkown state.... ugh, what have I done.

http://www.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/monarch/monarch2.jpg

http://www.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/monarch/monarch3.jpg

T.Hoffman
09-06-2011, 01:08 AM
There's lots of boxes that aren't shown here... But you can see the stripped/primed frame pieces at the top.

http://www.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/monarch/monarch4.jpg

http://www.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/monarch/monarch5.jpg

For the money paid, I think I'm ok with it.

Even it she is too far gone to save, I look forward to the tinker time just to see if I can get her all back together.

And even if she is too far gone, this is invaluable "hands-on" tinker time for when I would find my NEXT 10EE! ;)

macona
09-06-2011, 01:32 AM
Nice. First thing you want to do is give Monarch a call tomorrow and give them the serial number for the manual for your machine. $75.00. You will also want to buy a set of felt wipers for the machine and a rebuild kit for the apron oil pump.

Don't worry about scoring on the cross slide. Does not make any difference. Just keep it clean.

Tony Ennis
09-06-2011, 02:01 AM
Grats!

Take lots of pictures of everything not yet disassembled and burn them to CD/DVD.

gcude
09-06-2011, 02:17 AM
Double score. Nice going on the lathe and on your getting rain up there. We are very desperate for rain in Texas. Everything is literally burning up around here the last couple of days. Congrats on the project and could you send the rain our way? ;)

dp
09-06-2011, 02:18 AM
And even if she is too far gone, this is invaluable "hands-on" tinker time for when I would find my NEXT 10EE! ;)

Just showed this to my wife along with the assembled machine and she cringed and said 'oh my gawd, no way!' ;)

Congrats!!!

T.Hoffman
09-06-2011, 02:33 AM
Just showed this to my wife along with the assembled machine and she cringed and said 'oh my gawd, no way!

Yeah, but I like a challenge.

Along those same lines, my friends thought I was absolutely nuts when I bought a brand new bike with ZERO miles on it and tore the bajeezus out of it down to just about engine and frame, this was before the bars/column came off:

http://www.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/rune/frog11.jpg

....Got a good laugh when my friend,at the sight of a brand new bike totally ripped apart, stated: "Now that takes a pair."

After painting and chroming and moding all sorts of goodies, and "some assembly required", still new with about 4 miles on it- maiden voyage:

http://www.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/rune/frog1.jpg

I think the Monarch will be fun. ;)

uncle pete
09-06-2011, 02:41 AM
Great score on the Monarch. Also nice bike. If you can do that I think the lathe is in good hands. Glad to see that lathe not parted out. Guess we know what's going to be keeping you busy for awhile.

Pete

Black Forest
09-06-2011, 03:30 AM
Congratulations! I guess you are now a member of an elite club!

jerhalco
09-06-2011, 05:47 AM
My other point is that you have zero negotiating power when you drive 10 hours to inspect a machine. They seller's going to tell you to take his offer or walk, knowing you have a 5 hour return drive.

What's he going to do stay with him if he doesnt take the deal. You can negotiate all you want. Maybe the guy figures it's a mini vacation.

Black Forest
09-06-2011, 06:19 AM
As far as the 5/10 hour drive it depends on the person for sure.

Way back in the 70's a friend of mine flew over to the US to compete with his dogs in a World Championship sheep dog trial. At that time if you wanted to bring a dog back into the UK the dog had to stay in quarantine for six months before being released back to the owner in the UK.

So everyone thought he would sell his dogs in the US. One dog he did sell to another friend of mine. The dog he won the trial with many people wanted to buy the dog but they thought the price was high and of course he would come down on the price at the last minute before leaving. The owner of the dog told the few that were seriously interested they had to let him know two days before leaving if they would take the dog. They all thought he would for sure come down at the last minute. Not only did he not come down in price at the last minute after the two day deadline came two of the men told him they would pay his price. He said no the dog goes back to England. Deadline is past. They were shocked very disappointed. My friend did indeed take the dog back to England. Three years later when he came again to compete several men met him at the airport to buy his dogs before they ever cleared customs. They knew he would take them back to England and they wanted first chance. He did indeed have the best working Border Collies in the world at the time.

T.Hoffman
09-06-2011, 07:07 AM
What's he going to do stay with him if he doesnt take the deal. You can negotiate all you want. Maybe the guy figures it's a mini vacation.

I let him know previously on the phone that I'd have no trouble walking from the deal if it wasnt right for me, and yes I'd just eat the gas and trailer rental. I've done that before when things weren't right for me. So he knew I was somewhat serious.

And I would have walked if he didn't agree to $500. Would have thanked him for his time, wished him good luck seling it, and drove away. Go all that way and haggle about $100 for a life-changing event? Yup. I stuck to my price.

It was up to his decision on how this would alter my life or not. ;) He was taking so long to decide that I started getting my keys ready and wiping my hands from all the inspection grease/grime and told him the ball is in his court. I had a long drive back and I wasn't going to sit there all day.

That bike I posted earlier- I drove 11hrs each way for that killer deal! Don't regret it a bit.
Books on CD are awesome for long drives....

John Stevenson
09-06-2011, 09:17 AM
Books on CD are awesome for long drives....

+1 on that, I look forward to long drives for just this reason, only problem is they never seem as long now :rolleyes:

lazlo
09-06-2011, 09:38 AM
You will also want to buy a set of felt wipers for the machine and a rebuild kit for the apron oil pump.

He's about 1,000 hours away from needing felt wipers -- LOL! :)

T.H. -- did you measure the wear on the ways?

aboard_epsilon
09-06-2011, 09:55 AM
He's about 1,000 hours away from needing felt wipers -- LOL! :)

T.H. -- did you measure the wear on the ways?

I've got one answer to that ..if you can see the wear its not ok .

or you cant see it, dont worry about it.

all the best.markj

lazlo
09-06-2011, 09:59 AM
I've got one answer to that ..if you can see the wear its not ok .

or you cant see it, dont worry about it.

LOL! When you can see wear, it's in the 10's of thou. Below that you need a DTI to measure it.

Most people bring an indicator when the look at an old lathe :)

JRouche
09-06-2011, 01:18 PM
Great score!!! I'm sure you will have fun with the project, will do a great job, AND will have a nice lathe in the end.

Ummm, PM will be the site to go to for tech help... Not to mention a WHOLE lot less neg BS (the monarch sub-group anyway)... JR

aboard_epsilon
09-06-2011, 01:29 PM
LOL! When you can see wear, it's in the 10's of thou. Below that you need a DTI to measure it.

Most people bring an indicator when the look at an old lathe :)
in his case ..he's not paid a mint for it ..

it's very hard to measure the wear ..without dissembling it and putting bits of it on a surface plate .

The only rough way is to tighten the saddle lock slightly and see how many turns you need to loosen it to get the saddle to the end of the bed..if you know the pitch of the thread on the saddle lock ..that will give you an overall indication of the wear.

The crowns of the ways .....up near the head ..they will be narrower ..even if only slightly worn...you can usually spot that strait away.

if the crowns are points ...and at the other end are flat ..leave the thing there.

You can pull the saddle too and through ..at both ends of the bed ..you will be able to detect ..any slop if only slightly worn ..and a lot if badly worn....that would be the difference and not anything that could be taken up with adjustment.

You can see if the rack and pinion is worn ..by seeing how much backlash is in the handle at both ends of the bed.

You could measure the head bearings run out with a dial indicator ..but it may just happen to have adjustment..to sort all that out ...but if the owner is unaware of this adjustment ..then ..there's a cruel bargaining point

Just say, i was selling one of my machines ..for little money..a pittance....if someone came along with a dial indicator ..i would tell him where to go....i would say to him, he's expecting too much of a low priced machine...and he was a tank top and anorak wearing train spotter attitude can buzz off...he would probably have the nasal voice to match as he squirmed from me telling him where tyo go.

if i was selling something that was a premium priced machine for a premium price ..then he would have every permission to measure anything he liked ..with blessings.

all the best.markj

dp
09-06-2011, 01:52 PM
Great score!!! I'm sure you will have fun with the project, will do a great job, AND will have a nice lathe in the end.

Ummm, PM will be the site to go to for tech help... Not to mention a WHOLE lot less neg BS (the monarch sub-group anyway)... JR

This is the maddening part of this thread. How many times has the knee jerk advice been to buy US iron rather than Chinese, even though you can't buy much new US iron, and then here's a guy who has done just that and there's all this negativity. Guys - you can't have it both ways! The OP has a great opportunity here to end up with a fantastic lathe, or if it is too clapped out, to provide hard to find components for those who need them, and at a profit. There is no down side here.

In my opinion this is now an excellent tool gloat thread.

DFMiller
09-06-2011, 02:10 PM
Sounds to me like you got a great project.
Don't let the nay sayers get you down. They are all jealous.
Everyone is entitled to a dream.
Please keep us posted on your progress.
It's all about the journey.
Dave

lazlo
09-06-2011, 02:26 PM
This is the maddening part of this thread. How many times has the knee jerk advice been to buy US iron rather than Chinese, even though you can't buy much new US iron, and then here's a guy who has done just that and there's all this negativity.

He solicited opinions on the project here and on the Monarch forum, and got the same exact advice.

That you don't agree doesn't make it negativity.

T.H.: looking forward to seeing the rebuild thread! I've never seen a Sundatrand hydraulic motor disassembled before :)

uncle pete
09-06-2011, 02:46 PM
T.Hoffman,
Just let me know when it's rebuilt. I've got first dibs on it and I'll go as high as $1200 :D

Pete

Scottike
09-06-2011, 03:21 PM
Congrats on your new project!
With the skill you showed on your bike (I agree, It took some cohones to tear down a new machine!), I have no doubt about the outcome of the monarch.
I'm looking forward to parts 2,3,4,etc. of this saga.

dp
09-06-2011, 09:41 PM
He solicited opinions on the project here and on the Monarch forum, and got the same exact advice.

That you don't agree doesn't make it negativity.

How many of us have to agree there is negativity before you accept there has been negativity? Even the Sudsmeister picked up on it :)

Agree on the Sunstrand drive, should be interesting. The only hydro drives I've seen are on stump grinders and lordy can they crank - but I think I like Macona's servo drive idea better.

macona
09-06-2011, 10:31 PM
As far as the 5/10 hour drive it depends on the person for sure.




I drove 18 hours one way to get my 10EE and all I had to go on was pictures and the guys word.

macona
09-06-2011, 10:34 PM
He's about 1,000 hours away from needing felt wipers -- LOL! :)

T.H. -- did you measure the wear on the ways?

Nah, not even close. If you are going to order the manual might as well get the wipers too as he will need them. No since paying UPS twice.

Assuming there is no major wear I could have that thing painted and back together in a few weeks. Add another week for rebuilding the saddle with moglice. The mess with the paint I experienced set me back pretty good like when I did mine.

macona
09-06-2011, 10:40 PM
How many of us have to agree there is negativity before you accept there has been negativity? Even the Sudsmeister picked up on it :)

Agree on the Sunstrand drive, should be interesting. The only hydro drives I've seen are on stump grinders and lordy can they crank - but I think I like Macona's servo drive idea better.

One advantage of the sundstrand is you can just put a single phase motor on it and go.

If I were to do my servo conversion over I would have left off the back gear. I have never needed it since, even for threading. You can have that thing set to 1 RPM and it there is no way you are going to stop it without the belts slipping.

Mcgyver
09-07-2011, 12:13 AM
If I were to do my servo conversion over I would have left off the back gear. I have never needed it since, even for threading. You can have that thing set to 1 RPM and it there is no way you are going to stop it without the belts slipping.

interesting point. mine are flat belt....yours is the V belt arrangement? Intuitively I'd guess the V would transmit a lot more power.....maybe when i do it I should change over with a set of V's? (I say change over, bottom half isn't there, so its not a big difference....except for getting the flat pulley off the scored up end of the spindle :mad: ). any other considerations or reasons for keeping the flat over V?

macona
09-07-2011, 02:35 AM
The v belts and flats seem to have been put on to machines concurrently. Some machines newer than mine had flats where mine has V's.

I really couldn't tell you if a flat would transfer less power. I would almost feed that the flat would run smoother with less friction. But I really don't know much about pulley design.

Biggest issue of switching I see is the pulleys are dynamically balanced. So whatever you put back on there you would want to make sure it is balanced as well. Also on the drive side you need to find a pulley that is for two A series belts. A lot of the stock pulleys I have found are for B size. When used with an A belt the spacing between the belts is larger. This would only mean a lot if you got a stock V Belt pulley to put on the spindle.

But if I were going to go through the trouble of installing new pulleys and getting them balanced I would install HTD timing belt pulleys and use the appropriate belt.

T.Hoffman
09-07-2011, 10:22 AM
I've never seen a Sundatrand hydraulic motor disassembled before :)

Well, that certainly makes two of us!

Right now the priority is the getting the Rockwell 11" in my basement restored and functional. So the Monarch will have to wait a bit in the garage. She has waited many years for some attention so I don't think another month or two will bother her too much.

But what I plan on doing is taking closeup pics of every component as I got it, and catalog list it all so I have a better idea of what I have.

When I ripped apart that bike, I took a TON of pictures at each step. I had dozens of clear zip-lock bags for components/hardware. As I removed something it got immediately labeled on the bag as to what it was and where it came from.

Turns out that taking all those pictures was the best thing I did when it came time to put it all back together. Even though I had bought the full service manual for the bike, I was quite surprised at how often I was referring back to my pictures to help me.

I plan on doing similar with the Monarch... ;)

Chuck K
09-07-2011, 09:26 PM
Congrats on the purchase. I have to tell you that I considered driving a couple of hrs to look at it myself. I was more interested in it as a parts machine. I'm glad your planning on putting it back in service. They are a great machine even if they do have a little wear. I had a Jet 1430 geared head machine that was basically in new condition. I found an EE with moderate wear on it and the jet went down the road. It's like cutting with a scalpel instead of a machete....and you don't have to listen to all of those chinese gears rattling while your doing it. You have a major project, but it's going to be a rewarding one. I guarantee you when you get done with it, you won't consider selling it. Chuck

WestCoastPat
09-08-2011, 02:54 AM
Did good on yet another American classic saved from the scrap yard.

Flat belts are more efficient. V-belts present more drag and do not last as long. Look at all vehicles these days, and the mileage they get. V-belts were a convenient step backwards in engineering. No way I would change them out.

Black_Moons
09-08-2011, 04:45 AM
Did good on yet another American classic saved from the scrap yard.

Flat belts are more efficient. V-belts present more drag and do not last as long. Look at all vehicles these days, and the mileage they get. V-belts were a convenient step backwards in engineering. No way I would change them out.

... the belts in cars only transmit a few HP to the accessorys, mainly the alternator, AC, power steering, etc. They don't transmit power to the wheels.

Yes they present more drag, No they are not making your car get 10MPG less. 1MPG less? Maybe. But doubtful. Else high efficency cars would of switched to some other belt (or chain, or gears)

V belts allow a lot more useful friction for a given belt size, and a given belt tension. For the record, afaik motorbikes that are belt drive, are toothed belt however.

EVguru
09-08-2011, 05:47 AM
...Yes they present more drag, No they are not making your car get 10MPG less. 1MPG less? Maybe. But doubtful. Else high efficency cars would of switched to some other belt (or chain, or gears)
They did! Most modern cars use Poly-V (serpentine) belts, which are much more efficient than V or wedge belts. They work well as substitues for flat belts in many cases. Once the ratio exceeds 3:1 or so, you don't really need to groove the larger pulley. I've seen quite a few flat belt lathes wearing Poly-V belts with no other modifications.


V belts allow a lot more useful friction for a given belt size, and a given belt tension. For the record, afaik motorbikes that are belt drive, are toothed belt however.
Modern motorcycles, yes. Most Pioneer or Vetteran motorcycles used friction belt drives, sometimes using them as the clutch mechanism (those that actually had any form of clutch that is!).

T.Hoffman
09-08-2011, 09:57 AM
Here's a few interesting things I thought people would be interested in taking a peek at thus far. Anybody else have their bed stamped with HGB's mark?

http://www.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/monarch/monarchinspection.jpg

http://www.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/monarch/monarchinspection2.jpg

Here's a closeup of the Sunstrand label on the base after wiping decades of crap off it:

http://www.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/monarch/sunstrandlabel.jpg

http://www.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/monarch/sunstrandlabel2.jpg

T.Hoffman
09-08-2011, 09:59 AM
This is where she rests at the moment in the garage:

http://www.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/monarch/garage.jpg

And when I looked at the machine in hopes of buying it, I noticed the some scoring on the left side of the cross slide area. The right side looks nice with hand scraping marks still visible:

http://www.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/monarch/scoring2.jpg

And here's the other side with the the scoring:

http://www.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/monarch/scoring.jpg

On a postive note, I was fiddling around with the controls on the headstock and it seems to engage and switch very clean and nicely between the left/feed/right selector.

WestCoastPat
09-08-2011, 11:59 AM
Wonderful piece of iron and history there. Time will certainly not be wasted IMO. "You don't through away a whole life just cause it's banged up a little" ..:D

On the flat belt subject- it's been my experience flat belts are superior to V belts in most every way except probably manufacturing them, but that was before the modern serpentine belt arrived.

macona
09-08-2011, 12:03 PM
Nothing to worry about with the cross slide. Clean it up and use it.

lazlo
09-08-2011, 12:07 PM
On the flat belt subject- it's been my experience flat belts are superior to V belts in most every way except probably manufacturing them, but that was before the modern serpentine belt arrived.

Flat belts are smoother running, but they have less traction == more slip and less horsepower. V-Belts have more traction, transmit more power more efficiently, but the compression/expansion of the V-cross section as it travels around the sheave makes it less smooth. Cogged V-belts help that a lot, but don't eliminate it.

Poly-V belts (i.e., serpentine automotive belts) were invented by GE as a best of both worlds: a flat belt with several small V's to provide greater efficiency/power transmission.

Since the 10EE was designed in the 30's (long before Poly-V's were invented), I wouldn't be surprised if flat- or v-belt was an option when you ordered the machine. The 10EE has a top speed of 4,000 rpm, so if you were doing high-speed, somewhat lower torque turning, a flat belt would probably be a better choice. If you were doing lower RPM, higher torque turning, the V-belt would probably be a better choice.

If you wanted to modernize the machine, a la Jerry's servo retrofit, it's be dirt simple to replace the sheaves with Poly-V's and have the best of both worlds.

Thomas Staubo
09-08-2011, 06:30 PM
Hello Hoffman, and best wishes for your 10EE (and your Rockwell).


And I have a question about your motorcycle; What is it?

I saw one similar to yours in Oslo this summer, and I thought it was a Honda Gold Wing which was customized by the owner. But it seems it's a production motorcycle, because the one I saw was almost exactly like yours, but with a gold-yellow paint.



... After painting and chroming and moding all sorts of goodies, and "some assembly required", still new with about 4 miles on it- maiden voyage:

http://www.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/rune/frog1.jpg

aboard_epsilon
09-08-2011, 06:50 PM
Looks like judge dredds bike to me :D


I am der law
all the best.markj

lazlo
09-08-2011, 07:18 PM
Looks like judge dredds bike to me :D

It does! Do you have a funny Roman helmet to go with it? :)

WestCoastPat
09-08-2011, 07:33 PM
Flat belts are smoother running, but they have less traction == more slip and less horsepower. V-Belts have more traction, transmit more power more efficiently, but the compression/expansion of the V-cross section as it travels around the sheave makes it less smooth. Cogged V-belts help that a lot, but don't eliminate it.


Flat belts that fit and do not slip are more efficient, and transfer more HP in my experience. Plus they by far outlast V-belts.

But everyone is entitled to their opinions. I'll bow out on the subject, and let that old 10EE shine,.

Hal
09-09-2011, 01:12 AM
I talked to the guy that bought a room full of Monarch's R & D info when Monarch down sized years ago.

He said Monarch's research crew spent a year and a ton of money finding the best belts for their lathe.

But that was in the 70's and somethings have changed.

Hal

lazlo
09-09-2011, 11:12 AM
He said Monarch's research crew spent a year and a ton of money finding the best belts for their lathe.

The Monarch owners were mentioning that the 10EE's seem to have either a flat belt or a V-belt, and it doesn't appear to be related to the date the machine was built.

SlickTX
09-09-2011, 12:11 PM
Hello Hoffman, and best wishes for your 10EE (and your Rockwell).


And I have a question about your motorcycle; What is it?

I saw one similar to yours in Oslo this summer, and I thought it was a Honda Gold Wing which was customized by the owner. But it seems it's a production motorcycle, because the one I saw was almost exactly like yours, but with a gold-yellow paint.


The bike is a Honda Rune which is/was a brief re-incarnation of the Honda Valkyrie line. I used to own a '98 Valkyrie and was very impressed by it. When Honda started chasing the other guys with V-twin bikes (except for the 'Wing) I moved on to a Harley to get fuel injection and other modern conveniences.

lazlo
09-09-2011, 12:32 PM
The bike is a Honda Rune which is/was a brief re-incarnation of the Honda Valkyrie line.

Wow, that's a gorgeous bike:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/72/183840720_f63060b232_z.jpg

T.Hoffman
09-09-2011, 03:04 PM
Off topic I know, but the Rune was made in 2004. Honda never released full production numbers, but it is estimaed at around 3500-4000 bikes. Mostly a one-year run of them, but a few spilled over into 2005 production so there are a few of them officially as "2005" models. Mine is a 05.

I bought mine right around very beginning of 2008, new in the crate.

I liked my paint scheme better than the factory one- I had everything repainted the way I wanted when I had it stripped down. You'll notice on mine the extra colored panels that are not on a stock bike. I think it finishes off the bike better. Did several other modifications, new license plate mount with welded brakets for lowered and radiused plate holder, got rid of the ugly turn signals replaced with chrome fork mounted LED's, and also did a lot of extra chroming of parts, plus the extra engine cover panels that I chromed.

This is a stock bike:

http://www.carpictures.com/media/images/400/05BOE013825635A.jpeg

And then mine:

http://wwww.blackfrogmusic.com/pics/rune/frog1.jpg