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radkins
09-29-2011, 07:27 PM
After discussing the Reno show accident with a friend of mine he sent me this and I thought it was really interesting,


www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y90vnB6gUME

Arcane
09-29-2011, 07:51 PM
This is just as interesting...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzMXjlBXJeo&feature=related

oddball racing
09-29-2011, 07:53 PM
You've been Tubed!
The explaination video is a couple more down. Half that video is remote control.

radkins
09-29-2011, 07:54 PM
In other words I've been had! :mad:


Sorry about that.

Thruthefence
09-29-2011, 07:56 PM
You'd have to use a BUNCH of rudder to pick the (missing) wing up!

gordob
09-29-2011, 08:30 PM
Not to be one of those guys that says "I told you so" about it being a fake. but Its another fake.

the Footage has been lifted from a flight simulator. By looking closely at the video you can see the computer rendering.

appologies, but i hate all of the fake videos on the 'tube and cant help pointing them out

wierdscience
09-29-2011, 08:32 PM
The real deal-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2lH7YBqZo0

Evan
09-29-2011, 08:50 PM
They forgot to install some to the wing retaining bolts on the F117.

Your Old Dog
09-29-2011, 09:55 PM
I have a friend who runs security on airshows as a sideline business and works all over the country. He didn't like it when I told him I thought air shows were a leading cause of pilot deaths. I still think I'm right. Not the same I know but the only time I've ever been in trouble on my motorcycle was when I was showing off. Are shows are meant to show off the craft and the pilots.

Willy
09-29-2011, 10:34 PM
I have a friend who runs security on airshows as a sideline business and works all over the country. He didn't like it when I told him I thought air shows were a leading cause of pilot deaths. I still think I'm right. Not the same I know but the only time I've ever been in trouble on my motorcycle was when I was showing off. Are shows are meant to show off the craft and the pilots.

Very true.

But it is an intrinsic human nature to take pride in what one has built or learned.
There's no joy for anyone to spend time learning skills or building something only to have that "work" locked up for neither participant or spectator to enjoy.

It is what we are, and why we have an artistic flare.
Without risk there can no gain. The higher the risk or personal input, the greater the personal gain or enjoyment. It is there also for those who appreciate what is on the plate.

I've had more fond memories in my life doing something "dangerous", than Ive had watching TV.

But I'm sure that I'm preaching to the choir here.;)

Toolguy
09-29-2011, 10:36 PM
The guy in the video seems to have a pretty limited vocabulary.:D

darryl
09-30-2011, 01:46 AM
Yeah, he seems to have a fixation on feces from heaven-

jugs
09-30-2011, 02:20 AM
Yeah, he seems to have a fixation on feces from heaven-

A crap commentary :)

SteveF
09-30-2011, 07:40 AM
I have a friend who runs security on airshows as a sideline business and works all over the country. He didn't like it when I told him I thought air shows were a leading cause of pilot deaths. I still think I'm right. Not the same I know but the only time I've ever been in trouble on my motorcycle was when I was showing off. Are shows are meant to show off the craft and the pilots.

Sorry but you are not even close.

http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/stats/safety.html

Steve

MrSleepy
09-30-2011, 07:55 AM
Sorry but you are not even close.

http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/stats/safety.html

Steve

I noticed a steady decline in the number of deaths since the 1950s ..Is that because the number of pilots has been steadily decreasing aswell..:)

Rob

Rustybolt
09-30-2011, 09:09 AM
I have a friend who runs security on airshows as a sideline business and works all over the country. He didn't like it when I told him I thought air shows were a leading cause of pilot deaths. I still think I'm right. Not the same I know but the only time I've ever been in trouble on my motorcycle was when I was showing off. Are shows are meant to show off the craft and the pilots.




I think airshows are a leading cause of spectator deaths. Plane crashes are the leading cause of pilot deaths.......................and not a few passengers.

Mcgyver
09-30-2011, 09:47 AM
I have a friend who runs security on airshows as a sideline business and works all over the country. He didn't like it when I told him I thought air shows were a leading cause of pilot deaths. I still think I'm right. Not the same I know but the only time I've ever been in trouble on my motorcycle was when I was showing off. Are shows are meant to show off the craft and the pilots.


its hard to imagine there are hundreds of airshow deaths such it would be the leading contended as per SteveF's link, however if you modified the theory slightly to be fatalities per 100,000 hours flown, it bet it would be completely off the charts. If so it would support your point but not prove it as fighter jets, stunt planes and wwii antiques aren't going to have the same safety records as commercial 727's. You'd have to look at fatalities per 100,000 hours in each of those categories subdivided by airshow/non airshow stats...still, intuitively it makes sense...at the air show the pilots are flying in a different manner than that connecting flight to Florida.

gary350
09-30-2011, 10:21 AM
First time I saw this video was about 3 years ago.

RC model airplane guys think its real cute to fly on the prop, no wings required. Real airplanes will not do that.

Evan
09-30-2011, 11:15 AM
Real airplanes will not do that.

Most won't.

http://ixian.ca/pics9/pogo.jpg

aboard_epsilon
09-30-2011, 11:43 AM
Most won't.

http://ixian.ca/pics9/pogo.jpg

ok taking off ..but imagine landing that thing ..wonder how many test pilots that took out

all the best.markj

radkins
09-30-2011, 11:50 AM
I am not usually taken in by this kind of thing and when I got that I should have checked it out before posting it, kind of embarrassing and I can assure you guys I will not be posting junk like that again! My apologies for wasting everyone's time.

jugs
09-30-2011, 06:10 PM
I am not usually taken in by this kind of thing and when I got that I should have checked it out before posting it, kind of embarrassing and I can assure you guys I will not be posting junk like that again! My apologies for wasting everyone's time.

Second coment under vidio =


According to snopes.com, this is a fake video for a German clothing company named killathrill, which is printed on the airplanes side.


prestonlewis (http://www.youtube.com/user/prestonlewis) 8 months ago 5 http://s.ytimg.com/yt/img/pixel-vfl3z5WfW.gif

here's some real masterly flying

From the inside - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQNWP...eature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQNWPkF5AWM&feature=related)

From the outside - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT4et...feature=relmfu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT4eta9ZRSM&feature=relmfu)

From alongside - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdprM...1&feature=fvwp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdprMRMjs1c&NR=1&feature=fvwp)
__________________


+ some other associated stuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQnDPIkaJ34&NR=1&feature=fvwp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&feature=related&hl=en-GB&v=4gpCLeWqY0w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meRUWq0OWlI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQLnmdOthmA&feature=fvwrel

Greg Q
09-30-2011, 06:54 PM
The 777 clips were from the test flying program...that was the sequence to determine maximum demonstrated crosswind. The have to demonstrate a conventional de-crabbing technique and also landing crabbed. Guess what the tires look like after that!

I have flown in airshows as a demonstration pilot in a WWII bomber. That kind of airplane does not require much more than a banked fly-by. The nostalgia does all the talking, and the pilot's ego has no place in the show. The fast prop and jet guys have a different role: They have to bring the heat to spike the thrill into the crowd. Occasionally it gets away from you. The crowd should never be under the possible flight path of a show accident. Having said that Reno is a race, and in racing accidents do happen. How many spectators have died at the Indy 500 for example? Or Le Mans, or any of the rallies that used to be lined with spectators?

Greg

A.K. Boomer
10-01-2011, 10:27 AM
I am not usually taken in by this kind of thing and when I got that I should have checked it out before posting it, kind of embarrassing and I can assure you guys I will not be posting junk like that again! My apologies for wasting everyone's time.



Don't feel bad Radkins - I actually had a very experienced pilot send that to me years ago and immediately cried foul to him and he asked why?

first off the plane loses it's wing at the end of a lumbering vertical ascent to where there really isn't anything to do with the term "G force"

and then the rest is just crazy hoax but the icing on the cake is the landing in which the plane bobs on the ground like it weighs about 50 pounds and is storing about zero momentum.

The fact is is depending on the plane design and engine there is some potential for pulling something off but it's going to look way more out of control and resemble more of a crash landing than a landing of any sort --- for one - flight sim or not you simply can't train properly for the event of one wing totally missing --- But - on the flip side --- a plane does not have to have enough power to totally " hang on the prop " to pull off a semi- controlled crash landing in the event of a missing wing and in fact it just needs enough power to keep close to a 45 degree angle and creating lift is not even a factor - you just want to create a controlled drag situation - a massive vertical tail (not seen in the hoax) and a rear fuselage like seen in the hoax (very tall and very narrow) will aid in keeping this angle IF the engine and prop give the craft enough speed for the bite, then it's up to the remaining "vertical" wing which incidentally half of it is going to be falling in and out of the prop wash on each side so it's going to be back and forth and there is no way in hell its going to look pretty, and to physically "grease" the landing on it's wheels ? there's simply no way --- all im saying is it could be possible for someone to "maybe" make it out alive --- after he get pulled out of the twisted up rubbish...
you could throw full aileron at it just before touch down but all the variables of what that's going to do and all the things needed right after and during with your remaining controls is close to a physical impossibility - and even if you got that stuff spot on your going to immediately rip out your landing gear because you weren't really "flying" you were simple dropping down in a controlled "stone"...

radkins
10-01-2011, 11:42 AM
first off the plane loses it's wing at the end of a lumbering vertical ascent to where there really isn't anything to do with the term "G force"

and then the rest is just crazy hoax but the icing on the cake is the landing in which the plane bobs on the ground like it weighs about 50 pounds and is storing about zero momentum..




I had already noticed that (after posting that nonsense!:o ), after watching that thing again both of those points were jumping out at me and left me wondering how I could have missed that the first time! There have been a couple of E-mails exchanged since my buddy sent me that and he still INSISTS it's real in spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, his main argument is the pilot emerging from the cockpit after the plane stops. Pilot or not that thing is obviously a hoax!



Being a pilot myself I should have known better even if my experience is limited, 90% of my time is in Cessna 152's and 172's with a few hours in a Cherokee 6.

I did have an "incident" once that occurred on my first solo flight of all times! Back in 1975 I made my first solo from a small airport in Tn in a 1968 Cessna 150. When doing my preflight I evidently did not properly fasten the inspection cover after preflight checks under the cowl and nervous as I was this could not have happened at a worse time. All went well until I banked left on final and that thing let go! At first it was a loud clattering sound that started at the same instant I added power because I was too low so the first thing that went trough my mind was the engine was about to blow, thinking about it afterward however it sounded nothing like that but still at the time it was scary. In the excitement I lost track of the fact I had added power and by the time I had calmed down a little I was way high and with the short runway it was obvious I was going to have to go around but after rolling out of the bank the clattering had stopped. The go-around was uneventful and the cover had bent such that when I came around on approach this time there was no more clattering and my first solo landing went well, that is it went well on the second try! :o After meeting my instructor and determining what the problem had been, actually it turns out it was not a problem at all, I was the subject of the usual jokes about having to change pants, etc but otherwise I was told I handled it properly. Doing a go-around with evidence of an engine problem or possible airframe problems is a scary thought but it was a decision I had to make quickly, I was way too high and there was a rock quarry filled with water not far from the end of the runway and as the old saying goes I was running out of altitude and ideas at the same time. This would have been a harmless non-event for an experienced pilot but being a young guy on my first solo it was un-nerving to say the least but at least I can look back on it and laugh at myself now!

loose nut
10-01-2011, 05:07 PM
I have a friend who runs security on airshows as a sideline business and works all over the country. He didn't like it when I told him I thought air shows were a leading cause of pilot deaths. I still think I'm right. Not the same I know but the only time I've ever been in trouble on my motorcycle was when I was showing off. Are shows are meant to show off the craft and the pilots.


War is the leading cause of pilot deaths and aircrew too.

radkins
10-01-2011, 05:17 PM
War is the leading cause of pilot deaths and aircrew too.


I seriously doubt that has been the case for many years, certainly during periods of earlier wars that would have been true but in the last 40 years things have changed considerably.

Willy
10-01-2011, 05:28 PM
You guys want to see what I consider some of the best seat of the pants instinctive flying that I can recall?

Here is a short clip showing what happened to Israeli F-15 pilot Zivi Nedivi after a mid-air collision with an A-4 Skyhawk. The collision completely severed the entire wing!
He was not fully aware of the extent of damage until after he had landed.

This is definitely not a hoax...just some incredible flying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LveSc8Lp0ZE

armedandsafe
10-01-2011, 07:28 PM
I lived for about 25 years just North of Miramar NAS (San Diego, CA) and was used to seeing the jets coming and going. During the last few years there, I saw, several times, a Navy jet coming in on direct approach with one wing out and one wing in. I'd hate to do that in the few Cubs and Beavers I've flown.

I was told that was not that unusual in the early days of that variable-wing aircraft.

Pops

PeteF
10-02-2011, 06:56 AM
I have flown in airshows as a demonstration pilot in a WWII bomber. That kind of airplane does not require much more than a banked fly-by. The nostalgia does all the talking, and the pilot's ego has no place in the show. The fast prop and jet guys have a different role: They have to bring the heat to spike the thrill into the crowd. Occasionally it gets away from you. The crowd should never be under the possible flight path of a show accident. Having said that Reno is a race, and in racing accidents do happen. How many spectators have died at the Indy 500 for example? Or Le Mans, or any of the rallies that used to be lined with spectators?

Greg

Quite right Greg, the days where you could lob up and turn it on for the crowd are (or should be) long gone. These days it's a pre-prepared and approved routine and you dare not deviate from it. The routine is choreographed such that in the event of a malfunction the aircraft's trajectory is away from the crowd. I must admit I have never understood the fascination by some to go to an event to watch a crash. Personally any time I see an event where I know somebody has been hurt or killed just makes my skin crawl.

Pete

A.K. Boomer
10-02-2011, 09:31 AM
Yeah - and he mentioned Rally driving and it has to be the #1 insane spectator risk there is,
I still can't believe it every time I see it - and it's generally the euro's --- and its like they leave the little straights alone and line the turns as if they want to become human guard rails --- not the inside turns mind you --- they are ten fold deep on the outside turn with a car that shutting down from the triple digits and then tossing it into such a radical 4 wheel drift that it's about out of steering radius ------- then when one goes off and you see about thirty people get tossed into the air like rag dolls the ones that lucked out have a look like "how could this have happened" on their face:rolleyes: totally crazy.


Occasionally I watch a local event that's in an area of one of my training rides on my mt. bike - I don't mean to get in for free, it just happens cuz It intersects a trail that I ride and if I happen to be riding the same day as the race I do like to watch them --- but I watch from on top of a 20 foot hill directly above them on an inside turn ---- much more interesting view then the back of somebody's head and far more safer...