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View Full Version : Don't care if it's Chinese - I want one of these...



lakeside53
10-01-2011, 01:02 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTUZZIrBfgs

Jaakko Fagerlund
10-01-2011, 01:22 AM
Square hole drilling attachment, if someone didn't want to watch the video. Nice tool and would be fun to build :) BTW, the text looks like Japanese than Chinese, but I'm not 100% sure.

lakeside53
10-01-2011, 01:50 AM
Ha! my bad, it is Japanese. Didn't have my glasses on, so just blur. Oh, you'd think I would have known... I worked for a Japanese company for over 10 years, and spent two in Tokyo:o

Of course, as it's Japanese I probably can't afford one!

macona
10-01-2011, 01:54 AM
Same as a Watts Chuck.

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=28214&page=2

Mcgyver
10-01-2011, 09:22 AM
BTW, the text looks like Japanese than Chinese, but I'm not 100% sure.


i thought the characters were basically the same; a Chinese friend of mine tells of going to Japan and being able to read things but not converse?

i liked the slow motion portion of that video, very clearly shows whats going on.....but I've not had to make enough square holes to entertain making one

gwilson
10-01-2011, 09:35 AM
I have a Watts drill,but mine uses square templet holes for the drill to flop around in. Not sure how this one works. I didn't have the patience to watch the whole video as my knee is killing me. Must be built into the head somehow.

ligito
10-01-2011, 10:31 AM
i thought the characters were basically the same; a Chinese friend of mine tells of going to Japan and being able to read things but not converse?

i liked the slow motion portion of that video, very clearly shows whats going on.....but I've not had to make enough square holes to entertain making one

Japanese uses 3 sets of characters-Hiragana, Katakana and Kanji.
I think chinese only uses Kanji.

saltmine
10-01-2011, 10:39 AM
Actually, the Watts brothers have been manufacturing the Watts Head for many years, right here in the USA. The Japanese or Chinese probably got their mitts on one and copied it. (Asians don't do too well with anybody's patent rights)

I had to laugh, a couple of years ago. A friend was replacing a cylinder head on a GM 4.3L V-6 engine. Being a "net build" engine, all of the adjustments are set by very precise machining of the head, and they use "torque-to-yield" bolts to retain the head on the block. When he looked up the valve lash and head bolt torque, he discovered there were none. TTY bolts require the use of a "torque angle gage" to achieve correct bolt stretch. Instead of asking me if I had one, he drove to the local "VatoZone" and bought a "torque angle gage set" (Chinese made). He fooled around with it for a whole day, trying to figure out how to use it...no luck...no instruction sheet, either.
He finally called me, wanting to know if it would be possible to torque the bolts to an older vehicle's torque, and be done with it. I told him that the newer head gasket materials and the TTY bolts were necessary to get the proper clamping and using older style bolts were inviting a failure. He then, sheepishly, asked me if I could show him how to work the angle gage he bought. Once at his place, I went to set up the gage, and soon discovered that the Chinese made gage was missing a couple of critical parts. And was impossible to use without them. Apparently, a Chinese purchasing agent had bought an incomplete torque angle gage from somebody, and shipped it back to China, where they manufactured several million of them for export.
I got out my own torque angle gage (complete, Snap-on) and we got all of the bolts torqued correctly, and had a good laugh. My friend took the angle gage back to the store, and told them it was all but useless, and got his money back. But I can't help but wonder how many poor saps bought these things, not knowing.

vpt
10-01-2011, 10:39 AM
Just stick a endmill in the end of a mazda rotary engine.

vpt
10-01-2011, 10:43 AM
Actually, the Watts brothers have been manufacturing the Watts Head for many years, right here in the USA. The Japanese or Chinese probably got their mitts on one and copied it. (Asians don't do too well with anybody's patent rights)

I had to laugh, a couple of years ago. A friend was replacing a cylinder head on a GM 4.3L V-6 engine. Being a "net build" engine, all of the adjustments are set by very precise machining of the head, and they use "torque-to-yield" bolts to retain the head on the block. When he looked up the valve lash and head bolt torque, he discovered there were none. TTY bolts require the use of a "torque angle gage" to achieve correct bolt stretch. Instead of asking me if I had one, he drove to the local "VatoZone" and bought a "torque angle gage set" (Chinese made). He fooled around with it for a whole day, trying to figure out how to use it...no luck...no instruction sheet, either.
He finally called me, wanting to know if it would be possible to torque the bolts to an older vehicle's torque, and be done with it. I told him that the newer head gasket materials and the TTY bolts were necessary to get the proper clamping and using older style bolts were inviting a failure. He then, sheepishly, asked me if I could show him how to work the angle gage he bought. Once at his place, I went to set up the gage, and soon discovered that the Chinese made gage was missing a couple of critical parts. And was impossible to use without them. Apparently, a Chinese purchasing agent had bought an incomplete torque angle gage from somebody, and shipped it back to China, where they manufactured several million of them for export.
I got out my own torque angle gage (complete, Snap-on) and we got all of the bolts torqued correctly, and had a good laugh. My friend took the angle gage back to the store, and told them it was all but useless, and got his money back. But I can't help but wonder how many poor saps bought these things, not knowing.



I use the cheap angle finder, the ratchet. lol Most TTY bolts go in 90 degree increments so I just line up the ratchet with the head and turn 90 degrees.

lakeside53
10-01-2011, 10:57 AM
Japanese uses 3 sets of characters-Hiragana, Katakana and Kanji.
I think chinese only uses Kanji.


And... the official "in use"Japanese Kanji character set is vastly simpified. Less than 2000 are used plus a few hundred more for family names. The Chinese has over 80,000 as did the old Japanese set. It was reduced from the orginal Chinese and extend Japanese set in the '30s (IIRC) so the extended population people has a chance of becoming literate.

Japanese reuses kanji for multiple meanings depending on the context, so it's very hard for anyone else (including Japanese) to read it unless you have knowledge of the context. Hiragana is phonetic and the characters (like English letters) convey no meaning. Katakana is the same, but is generally reserved for foriegn words.

After two years of living there, I was lucky to be able to recognise the street and rail signs to get home ;)

lakeside53
10-01-2011, 11:01 AM
I have a Watts drill,but mine uses square templet holes for the drill to flop around in. Not sure how this one works. I didn't have the patience to watch the whole video as my knee is killing me. Must be built into the head somehow.


I couldn't tell, but was wondering if the "head" portion was cnc. Seems "controlled" rather than "flopping". The slow motion video sequence is interesting - nice corners.

The Artful Bodger
10-01-2011, 02:30 PM
I couldn't tell, but was wondering if the "head" portion was cnc. Seems "controlled" rather thsn "flopping". The slow motion video sequence is interesting - nice corners.


Maybe, but if it was you would think they would have demonstrated making different sized holes.

uncle pete
10-01-2011, 03:59 PM
What I can't figure out is how they index the head. All the square edges are nicely lined up in X and Y. The head would have to be adjustable but I just can't figure out the internals to allow for this adjustment. Maybe it's just a simple indexing set up? It would be interesting to see a engrish user manual.

Pete

Tony Ennis
10-01-2011, 05:30 PM
Japanese reuses kanji for multiple meanings depending on the context,

That's why haikus are an art form. In the Japanese language, they can have multiple meanings; it's an art form to construct a good haiku.

saltmine
10-01-2011, 08:59 PM
I thought either Michael Ward or Evan had a whole set of drill bits that drilled square holes.

BTW, the whole secret to the broaches operation is in the head itself. It has cams and ramps to guide the cutter precisely through each pass. The template is simply to keep the hole properly sized and located. If memory serves the Watts Brothers also make hexagon and polygonal templates and cutters.

uncle pete
10-01-2011, 10:26 PM
Saltmine,
Thanks for the additional "how it works" info.

Pete

Your Old Dog
10-01-2011, 10:33 PM
If I could get one of those into a pub I could get rich or drunk on bets!!

uncle pete
10-01-2011, 10:44 PM
Y.O.D.
Buy one of those really old hand powered bench drill presses, Nobody that isn't a machinist or hobbiest would think their going to lose that bet. Might take a lot of bets to pay for the square hole drill tho. I'd be interested on the price for these. Doubtful I could afford one but who knows.

Pete

jugs
10-02-2011, 04:52 AM
Yet another Victorian development :p

HERE'S HOW IT WORKS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5AzbDJ7KYI&NR=1)


see also-
http://www.maa.org/mathtourist/mathtourist_08_31_09.html

John Stevenson
10-02-2011, 05:53 AM
The one in the first post is called a Schroeder drill.

Here's how they work.


http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/Schroeder%20square%20hole%20drive.jpg

jugs
10-02-2011, 06:36 AM
Don't think so john :confused:
the one in post 1 is a 3 flute parallel cutter perpendicular to work

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTUZZIrBfgs&feature=player_detailpage#t=80s

the one you show is a single point cutter mounted on an angle

hornluv
10-02-2011, 10:44 AM
With regards to how they control the flopping, at the beginning of the video, the shank of the tool is triangular, so I'm guessing that runs in a template up in the head and guides it.

lazlo
10-02-2011, 12:44 PM
Actually, the Watts brothers have been manufacturing the Watts Head for many years, right here in the USA. The Japanese or Chinese probably got their mitts on one and copied it. (Asians don't do too well with anybody's patent rights)

The Watts patent was issued in the 19th century (seriously!), so no worries about patent infringement :)

I've got a Watts chuck (Oldham coupler) with one drill. They're fun to play with, but they're been largely replaced with rotary broaches.

saltmine
10-02-2011, 02:02 PM
A friend of mine has an old antique, wall-mount, hand cranked "pillar drill".

In the shop once, we needed to drill a hole in a 1/2" thick hardened & tempered leaf spring off of a truck (well, it wasn't that hard...it was off of a Ford truck).

After weighing the options and not wanting to burn a hole in it with a "flame wrench" or a plasma cutter, my friend offered to try his "pillar drill".

The drill itself looks like some kind of medieval torture device, hanging on this guy's garage wall. An even patina of rust made it look even less inspiring. The leaf spring was clamped in the drill, and the appropriate bit was secured in the spindle. My friend slowly started turning the crank.
Through a series of spur gears, the bit is fed into the stock as it turns...I'm guessing the feed is not adjustable. As the bit came into contact with the hardened spring, a 1/4" wide chip started to curl out of the deepening hole, I just stood there, amazed. When my friend tired, he asked me to "take over". I stepped up, and started cranking the handle. I truly expected it to need a lot more force. But the cranking was not much more difficult than moving the carriage on a huge rusty old Bridgeport. In a matter of minutes, we had a hole clear through the spring...without the aid of any power tools, heat, or flames of any kind. Yes, the spring got hot, where the cutting action was taking place, but not unduly. One thing I came away with was the fact that I realized we, on average, run drill bits entirely too fast.

macona
10-02-2011, 02:35 PM
And... the official "in use"Japanese Kanji character set is vastly simpified. Less than 2000 are used plus a few hundred more for family names. The Chinese has over 80,000 as did the old Japanese set. It was reduced from the orginal Chinese and extend Japanese set in the '30s (IIRC) so the extended population people has a chance of becoming literate.

Japanese reuses kanji for multiple meanings depending on the context, so it's very hard for anyone else (including Japanese) to read it unless you have knowledge of the context. Hiragana is phonetic and the characters (like English letters) convey no meaning. Katakana is the same, but is generally reserved for foriegn words.

After two years of living there, I was lucky to be able to recognise the street and rail signs to get home ;)

Also chinese has two scripts as well, Traditional and Simplified. Simplified is being used more and more. Thats one of the reason the French introduced the roman character set to Vietnam, the Chinese characters were difficult for poor people to learn.