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gary350
10-04-2011, 01:11 PM
We moved and down sized but we can NOT get any realitors to sell out house. I have talked to 14 realitors so far and I get the same story from all of them. The house MUST be completely repainted, all carpet and vinyl replaced, all brass door know replaced with the IN THING brushed nickle. All water faucets must be replaced with brushed nickle. Kitchen counter tops must be replaced with granit. All ceiling fixtures must be replaced with the most popular style. And get this.......My 24'x30' workshop with an upstair has NO value. All the realitors claim 99% of the buyers are not looking for a workshop so the $20,000. workshop does not add value to the house. Realitors value the 3500 sq ft house at $87 to $91 dollars per sq foot so the sale price is based totally on the square footage of the house this is just about exactly $20,000. below the apraised value. Realitors claim the market is low so the house will sell at about 80% of its apraised value. Another thing realitors all insist they do not want to show the house more than 2 or 3 times to sell it and if someone offers $200,000. for the house they have the right to sell it at that price. Several realitors said, we do not want to show this house 30 or 40 times we have other houses to sell if it won't sell after showing it 2 or 3 times we are not interested in selling it we are wasting our time. All 14 realitors have refused to list the house for sale until we spend $30,000. for the improvements that they want. The house must look like it was built brand new yesterday other wise the realitors refuse to list it for sale. So we must spend $30,000. to list a $335,000. house for $250,000. and the realitor has the right to sell it for $200,000. if they want. One realitor claimed he didn't think the house would sell for more than $160,000. I think they are all a bunch of lazy crooks not wanting to waste time showing the house more than 2 or 3 times then they want it sold at what ever price they are offered.

Evan
10-04-2011, 01:16 PM
For Sale by Owner.

aboard_epsilon
10-04-2011, 01:21 PM
youre on the net .use it

sell your house

make a free google site.

all the best.markj

Rosco-P
10-04-2011, 01:37 PM
Builders, big and small are still putting up new homes. Who wants an old one with an aging infrastructure? Does your house have a master suite with its own bath and whirlpool tub? Separate tub and stall shower? Walk in closets in every room? Central vacuum system, muti-zone heating and cooling, all rooms wired with cat6 cable and fiber? Modern gourmet kitchen? Sub-zero fridge?
A large shop which most all of us on the board covet is of no value to a upper middle class white collar couple with two or more kids. They want a house in move in condition and will to wait and spend what it takes to buy that first trophy house. All the typical white collar executive wants to do is: work (ten or more hours a day); come home, eat dinner, watch TV, sleep; on weekends, have a service cut the lawn and do the minor repairs; enjoy his limited free time dining out; playing golf; etc.

gwilson
10-04-2011, 01:47 PM
Yes,my $200,000 workshop won't be worth anything either,unless I could find a buyer who wanted such a building. That's the way it is. But,I'm never moving again.

Metalmelter
10-04-2011, 02:20 PM
Going through selling my home here at the moment too. My $276K home is now worth around $185. But the whole entire market is down. Those are the breaks I guess. Painted the rooms and fixed what needed fixing but that's it. I have no problems getting it listed. What major real estate firms did you try to have it listed with that refused you?? Prudential, Re-Max, Weichert, Keller Williams and more all would love to list mine. This not wanting to list a home is unheard of around here unless your asking price is beyond what the market will bring and they don't want to waste their time showing homes that wont sell either. Sell it yourself if need be. There are many tools ans web sites to help with that. Most all home sales these days are in some form generated from internet exposure.

The only thing that stops the sale on a home is ... the price typically. I live in a township where foreclosures are very high and now I have to deal with realtors doing a comparative analysis of my home against homes that are bigger, better in many respects, larger in land size and yet they are listed in foreclosure or short sale status because there is nothing else to compare too. Makes it rather hard to sell a home like that. The only thing going for me is my mortgage is up to date and you need not haggle with a bank for at least 3 months just to see if the deal is good or it fell through... That one point is what makes realtors want to list my home.

Rosco-P
10-04-2011, 02:25 PM
If the shop could be easily converted into a multi-vehicle car stable for the future owner's SUV fleet, complete with gleaming epoxy coated floor, storage on the walls, dazzling ceiling lighting, climate control and mother-in law apartment upstairs, it might actually add value.

JoeLee
10-04-2011, 02:45 PM
Tell the realators to take a hike............. Sell it your self. I never heard of such a thing.............. you have to practically remodel the house before they list it. Around here houses are listed as is........... if the seller so chooses to make some improvments before putting it up for sale...... fine, it might help, it might not. But I've never heard of a realator telling a seller that he HAS to make all these repairs before they will list it. People do like to buy fixeruppers you know or make modifications to suite thier taste.

JL................

cuemaker
10-04-2011, 03:03 PM
Funny you bring this up. My wife and I are currently looking at homes to buy. And frankly, we are not interested in any houses that needs updating or work. There are plenty of homes that are in very good to excellent condition on the inside and outside.

Before we go looking at a house, I pull up county auditor and recorder info. There I can learn who bought what, when and for how much, and how much they did loans for and to who. In my area, plenty of homes that have extensive updates are selling for what they did 7-10yrs ago. Its like the current owners did the update just to maintain the value of when they bought that house.

uncle pete
10-04-2011, 03:14 PM
Your the seller, Therefore your a customer of these realitors who have the licence to sell your home, So logicly their offering a service to the customer. THEY don't dictate terms to you, YOU tell them what the deal is. The free enterprise system has gotten slightly skewed by people allowing companys to tell the customers how they will and won't work for the business those customers provide. I'll use the term "Tell em to pound salt" here. But if a realitor told me that in person I'd use another long string of words. So yeah, "For sale by owner" and cut those money grubbing fools out of the deal completly. If you did everything they wanted, Then why would you need them at all?

Pete

The Artful Bodger
10-04-2011, 03:14 PM
We sold our house privately for more than the real estate agent estimated it would bring.

John Stevenson
10-04-2011, 03:20 PM
If I was selling mine at the moment I'd be in the same boat as many, decent shop, three phase piped air etc [ and one compressor could stay ] but the trade do not put any emphasis on these things, in fact they call them negatives.

Personally I'd advertise mine privately in some of the classic bike and car mags, they are the people who are looking for a shop first, house second.

tyrone shewlaces
10-04-2011, 03:48 PM
I talked to a realtor lately too about selling my old house. He recommended I replace the roof - the whole roof - framing, sheeting and all. Do you believe that ! ? Of course that may be because it has been warped 10 or so inches at the middle.;) It's not moving and has been that way ever since I bought it 25 years ago, but anyways...

So I'll probably do that but before I do I'm going to put it on the market myself. It's a really small place and won't fetch a lot anyway, so some young med student or the like just starting out may want to get into something stable and with a few faults as cheap as possible and fix it themselves in the future rather than have me choose what I think I want to do to it. My decisions will weigh heavier on cost than someone who will be living there, so I will not opt for anything nicer than necessary while the next owner/occupant might have paid a bit more for something better.

And that gets to the topic.

First of all, realtors work on percentage, so the highest selling price possible nets them more income. And if it's outfitted with the latest style stuff it will take less effort for them to sell it. So yea, there is an element of lazy going on there. So what you need to do is tell them A) You won't be making improvements to the house unless it's just something small and simple that an outside eye might catch that you have just passed over a hundred times and not noticed. B) You wish to sell it for X-amount but will settle for X-minus-x amount if that's what it takes. If it doesn't sell by date X then you can re-figure the asking price at that time. C) If those conditions aren't acceptable by them, then you won't waste each others' time by speaking further and go away. Some realtors are willing to work harder than others and if your conditions are reasonable, there will be one willing to do business with you. If twenty in a row walk away, then your expectations may be unrealistic to the reality of the market, in which case you should be able to tour houses in your locality and see for yourself what kind of prices are happening these days.

At any rate, spending 30-grand on your house if it's already in decent shape is not a good idea in my opinion. No matter what, most buyers find something if not several things about a new house that they wish to change just because they have different taste. Some of those changes might make it look more like it did before you spent your own time and money to "update" it. Let them purchase it for a little less and decorate the thing to be exactly what they want on their own time and dime rather than let a realtor convince you to make casino guesses.

$.02

Good luck.

vincemulhollon
10-04-2011, 03:53 PM
First of all, realtors work on percentage, so the highest selling price possible nets them more income.

And that, is why they want you to spend $30K of your own money to increase the sales price by maybe $10K, because to you its a financial disaster, but to them its profit.

FSBO for sale by owner.

Note we are in both a short term decline and a long term decline era, so don't chase the market down.. get out ASAP.

Rustybolt
10-04-2011, 04:41 PM
Having been a real estate appraiser for a little while I can tell you finished basements, extra large garages-workshops, and swimming pools do not add to the value of your house. Oftentimes they degrade the value. Everything below grade isn't considered living space no matter how well its appointed. Your house is appraised on living space.
Things like insulated windows, new roofs, new cabinets and countertops, new batroom fixures and tile, central air, central heat, watersoftener, all add to the value.

SGW
10-04-2011, 04:55 PM
How badly do you need to sell the house? If it's "not very," I see little point in dumping a whole lot of money into it that you will never recover. Your price may need to be lower to get a buyer, but overall you'll come out ahead.

When we sold ours four years ago we *needed* to sell the house ASAP. Therefore, we dumped some money to spruce up the kitchen a bit and got the worst walls of the exterior painted to increase curb appeal. (Realtors love "curb appeal.) We also put a reasonable price on it, and it sold in 10 days. We could have done a lot more work on it, but we did enough so a prospective buyer could say, "I'll want to re-do this, but I can live with it for now." People will want to do their own thing anyway, so just make the house attractive enough so nothing about it is seriously off-putting.

As for realtors not wanting to list your house...that's insane. If you can't find one, you do have the option of selling it yourself. Get your lawyer to get a standard P&S agreement for you to use and to walk you through the process. The lawyer will cost you something, but it will be a fraction of a realtor's commission.

justanengineer
10-04-2011, 05:27 PM
Around here we are seeing a trend that I think is becoming rather common. Granted, we are in an area where property values havent gone down in recent years, but people want new houses, not those musty old things that might need a bit of updating. Here you can buy a new "matchbook on a postage stamp" (currently renting one so I can say that), or you can buy a similar sized house30+ yrs old on a few acres that needs a bit of renovating for half the money. Call me crazy, but I like land, solid houses, and money in my pocket so the later is where we have been looking to buy.

IMHO, the housing market isnt "down" now. It is right where it should be.

gary350
10-04-2011, 05:30 PM
Having been a real estate appraiser for a little while I can tell you finished basements, extra large garages-workshops, and swimming pools do not add to the value of your house. Oftentimes they degrade the value. Everything below grade isn't considered living space no matter how well its appointed. Your house is appraised on living space.
Things like insulated windows, new roofs, new cabinets and countertops, new batroom fixures and tile, central air, central heat, watersoftener, all add to the value.

That is exactly what we have been told. I know there are people looking for a house they can paint the colors they like, put in the floor covering they want, etc. before they move in to save money but the realitors are only interested in a quick sale. I talked to a real estate guy at church he said, it makes the realitor more money to sell 1 house every day at a lower price than to sell 1 house per week at a higher price. The realitor wants the house in like new conditions so it sells quick its your money he is flushing down the toilet he still gets his commission no matter how much the house sells for.

We have custom hard wood oak kitchen cabnets most of the realitors want them painted WHITE oak cabnets are not popular anymore. Some realitors want the vinyl floors replaced with ceramic tile. Realitors want upgrades and extras added to make the house sell fast. We also have a 1/2 acre yard. 2 car garage attached to the house. 2 car detached garage 90 ft behind the house is my workshop with an upstairs for storage. I know the market is low and I don't mind selling the house below the appraised value because I know I can buy another one below market value. I just don't like the attitude of all the money grabbing realitors. Here is the house see what you think. It was painted 3 years ago.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h292/mikeweaver/100_1126.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h292/mikeweaver/100_1133.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h292/mikeweaver/100_1131.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h292/mikeweaver/BackYard.jpg

RussZHC
10-04-2011, 05:59 PM
Interesting comments so far...I would only add that "we", as a collective group, are likely very high on the "do it yourself" ideals.

All those things that the realtors "want" doing are things that at one time a new home owner would undertake, at least to some degree, on their own. I don't believe that is the case any more, current buyers want, as someone has already hinted at, a simple move in and live. Part of that comes from it being largely a buyer's market, in that they can pick and choose BUT part of that is there are a few generations already that are, simply, not handy since they have never had to be.

IF its broke (not saying anything of yours is) I only call "professionals" w a specific set of skills last, after I've tried to fix it. I would hazard a guess most of us have built a garage or two, re-roofed at least part of a house or two, likely added a second bath, certainly tiled a floor or 5, painted something somewhat large size around the house every year, transplanted trees, installed irrigation systems, built a deck, replaced steps etc. etc. etc.

Rosco-P
10-04-2011, 06:04 PM
Things a potential buyer will see that you might not notice or don't bother you.

Photo one, curb appeal: patchy lawn; little or no landscaping. White gutter and leaders, white trimmed windows and a white door. Boring, paint the door a bright contrasting color. No walkway up to the front door, nothing to draw a visitor to the logical entry for the home. They must traverse a long sidewalk after walking up the drive. Was the attached two car garage an add on?

Photo two (kitchen): sheet flooring in kitchen; floor vent right in front of counter, which appear to also be in an entryway to kitchen; no soffit above cabinets (unfinished, dust catcher), ceiling floro strip fixture, no recessed lighting; no task lighting under the cabinets; vent hood instead of built-in microwave; counter top looks dated ( buy solid surface at least); clutter on the counters (no pullouts in the cabinets? not enough storage?).

Photo three (shop): stovepipe sticking out out of closed up window (is that going to pass inspection?); upstairs of garage/shop looks more like attic storage space than living or usable space.

I have to add, I know plenty of Realtors, affiliated with more than one company and have done many walk throughs with them, advising prospective sellers. Sometimes little changes, especially when you can perform the work yourself, reap large rewards.

Evan
10-04-2011, 06:19 PM
I would go with changing that kitchen vinyl. That's the same stuff we had and my wife thinks it is (was) butt ugly. I changed it for a floating hardwood floor with 4" wide planks and she loves it. There is one rule in selling houses, the cook must like the kitchen.

aboard_epsilon
10-04-2011, 06:32 PM
Everything looks good to me except the staining on the bottom half of the brickwork ..

you haven't got damp course problems have you

make sure the soil isn't above that level

all the best.markj

tyrone shewlaces
10-04-2011, 06:36 PM
IMHO, the housing market isnt "down" now. It is right where it should be.

That's what I think too. I was blown away back during the bubble when real estate went up so fast. Having said that, those forces did cause a lot of new construction that otherwise wouldn't have happened and created a bit of a glut in housing, which does drive the market lower than it otherwise would be. But compare that to what the more realistic increase in value housing should have experienced during that time and things are not as bad as if you try to compare it to the fake values that were pulled out of thin air during those years.

Anyway, from those pictures I'd suggest that you get a power washer and clean off the driveway and brick so it doesn't draw a buyer's eye to stuff and cause them to start questioning things (a good overall rule of thumb), and remove or at least be ready to remove the stove flue for prospective tours so that looks like just a window. There are probably several other things like that you can do throughout the house. Come actual tour time, having things uncluttered and generically decorated of course adds absolutely no value to the house, but it makes a better psychological impression on buyers, so the refrigerator art, ceramic on top of the shelves and anything on the counter tops other than small kitchen appliances should be taken away and stored for your own next house. Then take pictures and put it on the market yourself. I don't see what that can hurt.

Can't do much about patchy grass and landscaping this time of year. That mulch around the tree bases is piled up unhealthy for the trees though (never "girdle" a tree trunk) so it wouldn't hurt to dig it out and refill with mulch flush to the grade. I think Rosco might be mistaken about a walkway - I think I see one there. I would never have considered white for anything because I hate white but like color, and so many other neutral colors go really well against brick. But paint is a personal thing so only take that for whatever it's worth - some folks just think it looks clean and neat. Mismatched colors in the kitchen appliances looks a little cluttery so you might pick up a cheapy but clean stove and remove the microwave come tour time - if the house doesn't come with appliances, I'd remove them or maybe just the ones that don't match the stainless stove vent since that is more work than just plugging it in. If you want to spend a little money but not too much, that floor covering does look a little dated but maybe it's better in person. But paint that floor vent to match whatever color the floor is so it doesn't stand out so much.

Basically all this stuff is relatively cheap or just labor on your part. You have to stare at things and just decide to do things that aren't expensive since the next owner may have different taste and change everything after all that work and expense, but still have it be pleasing, or at least non-offensive. Then set price to suit.

One thing I learned is that an independent appraisal won't do you any good because these days, banks will insist on their own appraisal for two reasons. First, they don't trust independent appraisals anymore. And second, they are done by remote control and not necessarily by a trained appraiser going through it like you'd expect, but they still charge full dollar on it so it's just bonus money for them.

sasquatch
10-04-2011, 07:07 PM
Re: The statement about Gary's Patchy grass,, looks to me that,s just winter kill from snow being plowed off it.
It will green back up pretty quickly,, it does look like a spring photo by the leaves on the trees.

Rosco-P
10-04-2011, 07:32 PM
Can't do much about patchy grass and landscaping this time of year. That mulch around the tree bases is piled up unhealthy for the trees though (never "girdle" a tree trunk) so it wouldn't hurt to dig it out and refill with mulch flush to the grade. I think Rosco might be mistaken about a walkway - I think I see one there.

Not too late to lay sod in the bare spots. No walkway from the street that I can see. As tyrone already stated, the mulch around the trees shouldn't be heaped up next to the bark, it invites insects and damage from mice. It should be like a dough-nut around the tree, tapering down to grade to direct water toward the tree trunk.

jkilroy
10-04-2011, 07:40 PM
The market sucks right now, and its going to get worse, a lot worse, before it gets better. It is a hard reality to deal with but thats the way its going to be for at least four or five years.

bobw53
10-04-2011, 07:47 PM
Around here we are seeing a trend that I think is becoming rather common. Granted, we are in an area where property values havent gone down in recent years, but people want new houses, not those musty old things that might need a bit of updating. Here you can buy a new "matchbook on a postage stamp" (currently renting one so I can say that), or you can buy a similar sized house30+ yrs old on a few acres that needs a bit of renovating for half the money

Same stuff out here. A 60 year old real adobe house, or at least cinder block house on many acres is far cheaper than the "matchbook on a postage stamp".

There is land as far as you can see out here, and it is pretty damn close to free, but there are tons and tons and tons of subdivisions with 1/4 million dollar houses on 1/6 acre lots.

If the neighbor on the west needs a cup of sugar, he opens his window and knocks on yours, and if you don't have it, you open your window on the east and knock on that neighbors window to see if he has it, continue that around the cul-de-sac and down the road.

I think they have to carry their lawnmowers through the house to the back yard, I don't think there is enough room between them.

I was looking here a while back. First, I could buy a $235k, POS, maybe 2000 sqft, on 1/6 of an acre, where my neighbor could hear everything I did. OR, I could have spent 200k for 5 acres, ground and irrigation water rights, 120 pecan trees (profit!!!), 3500 square feet of living space(set up for a rental also, 3 kitchens, go figure), 3 car garage, a deep one that could take about 8 cars, a giant car port that could hold at least 2 giant campers with hook ups, random various outbuildings, sheds and corrals, and little barns, adobe walls, tiled outside patios, and a small block in a shed to pull up ground water.

People out here are stupid.

Abner
10-04-2011, 07:53 PM
mo- This is not a sellers market. Values were too high for the last 10-15 years compared to wages. Prices rose 18-22% here for a number of years. I expect the price correction to go the other way and for quite a while.

The bottom will be in when the prices reflect current wages (which are now dropping as well). The affordability of houses was masked by exotic ways to borrow. That has changed permanently for this generation.:(

Adding value - walking distance to groceries, bus line, etc.

gary350
10-04-2011, 08:05 PM
It is good to read other people opnion that will help in fixing things up. The stove pipe and air conditioner in the shop window is going to the new shop 3 miles down the road so that window will be back to normal soon. The patchy yard is from winter snow we actually had snow this year 2 times. It was warming up in the low 40s early spring when this photo was taken. On average we have 300 days of rain every year I think every house in town has that dirty brick look near the ground. I have a Herb garden in front of the shop I water plants in July and Aug and muddy water splashes on the bricks so that spot looks worse that the rest of the shop and house. No sidewalk to the street is typical here I don't think you will fine 1 in 1000 homes with a sidewalk to the street and to the front door. Only old town has sidewalks that run parallel along the street. There is a ton of storage in the kitchen behind the left doorway is a 3 door pantry and there is a special cabnet in the kitchen for large pots and pans that can not be easily seen it is to the far left of the stove. Under the counter and over the counter specialty lighting also are invisible and the RO water system under the sink is invisible too. Built in microwave is unheard of around here no one wants to pay a service man to remove and replace a bad built in microwave when a counter top microwave can be thrown in the trash and replaced by anyone. I can see form what everyone says things are different depending on your geographical location. Lots of good points helpful points made like one person said, we lived there we don't see things like other people will. It is good to know what other people see. I might put in a ceramic tile floor several realitors have suggested that and I can do that myself I have done it many times. Master bath has a whirlpool tub and shower like the new modern houses have. Lots of large closets in very room.

Rustybolt
10-04-2011, 08:10 PM
That's a nice house, gary.
Sell it yourself and save some bucks.

kf2qd
10-04-2011, 08:40 PM
The realtor is getting you to spend money to up HIS commission. All that will happen is that you will spend money to force the price up, and in the end you will collect less money so the realtor can collect more. Sell the house at your price and if the buyers want to put brushed unobtanium fittings it is their choice. Then they can spend the 30,000 and you won't pay a commission on what the buyer decides to buy later. (And they can have things the colors they want, instead of the poor choice of colors you put up...)

Check into the rules on selling your home yourself. You will still have to pay for the title search and such (some states you pay a lawyer, others a title company) and you probably need some lawyer advice to make sure you have a proper sales contract. You will do a bit more work, but you won't pay a realtor, who doesn't want to work for the money, a commission.

Cheeseking
10-04-2011, 08:47 PM
From the photos I think you have a pretty nice home that just needs a few things cleaned and spruced up is all. Get rid of anything outside that screams Sanford and Son, hose off the brick, $40 worth of chemicals for the lawn it will be all good. You may even consider laminate flooring (cheaper than tile?) although tough to compliment oak cab's with another wood grain floor. No matter if it's your asking price, a reasonable offer or a lowball you don't HAVE to sell your house just because the realtor brings you an offer!! You can try FSBO but unless you get lucky it will take much longer. It sucks but the main advantage RE agents have is the MLS system. Without it they are tits on a bull and they know it. That is what broadcasts you to all the other professional agents. Now with the internet you can probably do reasonably well marketing but you'll need to do all that work plus fix up the house. If you havge the time and energy it could be worth it.

Your Old Dog
10-04-2011, 09:10 PM
A couple of thoughts on selling your home.

1. Don't assume that everyone who comes to look at you home has never picked up a hammer and driven a nail. Not all home buyers are 60 year old female teachers. Some are looking to save a few bucks because repairs are needed.

2. It is the nature of all buyers to try to find something wrong with a place to better their bargaining position.

3. Don't bare your soul to a realtor. They are legally supposed to be working for you but they also spread your personal thoughts and desires to buyers just to get more offers. Example: ("We just want to be done with this so we can move to Florida near our grandchildren")

4. ALL realtors tell you they can get more money for your home then they can, that's how they get listings. Then after your house sits for 2 months with no interest then they convince you to lower the asking price. All the while your home sits on the market earning a negative impact for buyers. Example: ("Hell, the house has been on the market for 2 years.")

5. We had our previous home sell 5 times and each time the buyers hired an inspector to inspect the home. I bought (from the inspectors) copies of their inspection report to the buyers. In all cases they rarely agreed on what was fine and what was needed.

6. Everyone "SAYS" the out buildings and shops don't figure into a sale. Bull-$hit. There are a lot of men like us. They build cars, have machine shops, wood shops and the like. You got a nice shop don't let any real estate agent tell you it detracts from anyone but a 60 year old female school teacher. :D

7. Most everyone knows that a home devoid of clutter, with clean windows and an expensive storm door and painted doorways help make your place look better. When they open you closet door will they see crap jammed up to the door or will they see a closet with plenty of room left over?

8. After living in a place for year it's easy to not realize how overgrown and overpowering your shrubs are. I have said and maintain I can add $10,000 to the value of most homes (not all) with a chain saw. I have proven that with three properties I have purchased.

9. Before you reject an offer take a moment to think about what the actual dollar amount difference is. Refusing to sell a $300,000 property because you are $5,000 apart is nuts in my opinion.

10. If the buyers come to see your property and you are home do not stare at the dudes wife if she has a great ass. It's a deal breaker for sure. :D

Tait
10-05-2011, 10:06 AM
6. Everyone "SAYS" the out buildings and shops don't figure into a sale. Bull-$hit. There are a lot of men like us. They build cars, have machine shops, wood shops and the like. You got a nice shop don't let any real estate agent tell you it detracts from anyone but a 60 year old female school teacher.

I agree in principle - however, part of the problem is financing. Most buyers can only get loans based on appraised value. One of my friends is trying to sell his place with a *huge* workshop worth probably $80k+. He tells me he can't get it sold because the appraisal folk can't find any comps - so the house appraises for its value without the workshop.

Abner
10-05-2011, 10:16 AM
Here is some real housing stuff - You can have your head handed to you on a platter if you are not careful.

This house just went on the market for $129,900
I looked at it yesterday, cute house, new appliances, new carpet new wood flooring, new paint. Horrible location, step out the side door and you literally could be hit by a car leaving the apartment complex behind it. Sorry no pictures on this site yet.

http://www.johnlscott.com/propertydetail.aspx?GroupID=257122428&ListingID=301131058&CMID=0&Sort=0

So here in Washington Co Oregon you can look up property on the internet-

So here is the Wash. Co. A & T read out.

http://washims.co.washington.or.us/GIS/index.cfm?id=30&sid=3&IDValue=1S206AC05900

(there is an address error on the Realtor listing, this is the same house)

So here is the skinny.

This house sold for $165,000 in 2006 near the peak of the housing boom.
It sold for $70,000 2 months ago.
I guestimate they put $8,000 total in upgrades and it is now on the market for $129,900.00

I see this over and over; bought in 05' or 06' near the peak and took a major hit.

vincemulhollon
10-05-2011, 11:09 AM
It sold for $70,000 2 months ago.
I guestimate they put $8,000 total in upgrades and it is now on the market for $129,900.00


That's a problem too... there are now many more flipper sellers than flipper buyers...

"everyone knows" from watching HGTV that you can add $25K to the value of your house using a gallon of paint, so anyone who can paint, wants to do it themselves. There are more people out there now willing to paint a wall for $25K than there are people willing to pay someone to paint a wall for $25K...

I've seen some pretty spectacular local flipper flameouts...

Fasttrack
10-05-2011, 03:51 PM
I'm in the market. If you agree to pay shipping costs, I would like to purchase your home and shop for immediate delivery to Bloomington, IN, please.


:D

dave5605
10-05-2011, 04:06 PM
Lots of good advice so far. Not going to repeat most of it.

Times are tough now, and will be that way for a few more years. Houses man not start appreciating for the next 10+ years.
If you are in a depressed area economically its even worse and not much you can do about it.
9 out of 10 realtors are just 'listing' jerks that want your listing. 99 out of 100 won't give a darn about you once its on the MLS.

Over my lifetime I have probably lived in and owned 10 or 12 properties. Everything from oceanfront condos to nice ranch and two story houses to a 'nice' place on 5 acres.

I just helped my son buy his 1st house (in another state) and by the time I was done with him and the real estate community my son was an expert in buying/selling a house and negotiating with real estate companies. We fired two of them in a period of 4 months.

My son learned how to use the local county website to find out owner, tax and sale information on properties. Also use it to investigate neighborhoods.
Use that information to check your own community and neighborhood out.

The biggest thing was we use a website called Trulia to do our own searches. It had all the listings the local MLS and realtor sites had. You will end up knowing as much or more than your real estate people about your neighborhood and re

In the end, as buyers, we found our own houses to look at and then called the listing agent to go see the houses. No contracts. No buyers agent BS either. My son knew more about most properties than the listing agents. For sure he knew more about the properties than the two buyers agents he had signed contracts with and subsequently fired for incompetence.

We looked at short sales (Ugh), foreclosures (double ugh) Overpriced houses and everything in between on the internet. We would go look at or 6 houses over a period of 4 months he bought one.

It was listed for $20k over appraisal (our banks appraisal) and he got it for $10K below appraisal (on a 200K house). We/he haggled with both the owner and the real estate person. Since he was a 'cold walk in' to the selling agent we got the agent to give up her 'buyers agent' commission. Afterall, she didn't have to do squat to get our business.

In the end he got a nice house for a fair price.

I am going to be responsible for selling a relatives small ranch in the coming months and I'm going to play the same hardball game again but from a sellers standpoint.My bank has appraised the house, I know what it is legitimately worth. Its 12 years old and needs upgrades. Probably going to give someone a good deal to do their own upgrades. Bottom line is I plan to be the one in the driver's seat and not the real estate company/agent.

Experience tells me you can find a good agent to work with you that, comes contract negotiation time they would rather have half of the commission pie rather than none of it (because the house didn't sell). They will also work with you to get reasonable upgrades done or negotiate needed fixes that were uncovered during the buyer's inspection.

Don't sell the value or uniqueness of your property short. there are people that will want that kind of property. Just be patient.

Now if you bought the property at the height of the real estate boom (2003-2007) then yeah you are probably going to lose 20 to 25% of what you paid for it.

Lastly, remember, everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, is negotiable at contract time.

Alistair Hosie
10-05-2011, 04:39 PM
Estate agents (realtors in America,) have generally got a bad name here in the uk for years, they are cowboys.Don't let the bar stewards get you down.After all it's your house.Has the new house you intend to buy been read from the same hymn book ? if so (sell your property )( not theirs) yourself and save too. Alistair

goose
10-05-2011, 05:18 PM
FSBO won't work in this market, it's tuff enough doing that during the boom times. But there are realtors who will list your house in MLS for a flat fee, say, $500, they collect at house closing, no money up front. You do advertising and showings, they just list the house.

If your house isn't picked up by real estate search engines....forget it. And forget Craigslist. Worthless for real estate sales.

Othwrwise, you can't change location, don't want to change condition. The only thing left is price. I would say your house is overvalued as you perceive it.

You're going up against foreclosures and other financially distressed properties, check the sales in your area for same sq ft and relative age/condition.

Mcgyver
10-05-2011, 05:41 PM
And that, is why they want you to spend $30K of your own money to increase the sales price by maybe $10K, because to you its a financial disaster, but to them its profit.
.

mmmm, doesn't really work that way. The incremental commission on another 10k is mice nuts. They don't care much if they sell a property for 250 or 260....what they want is listings that sell and sell fast.

only a small percentage of residential real estate agents have much credibility, agreed....but while in many cases the advice may wrong and delivered by an incompetent I believe it is genuine in intent - make the property move not to increase their fees through a higher selling price

J Tiers
10-05-2011, 11:03 PM
Most agents are focused on the "yuppie buyer"...... the folks who call a plumber for a faucet drip. People for whom it must be "perfect" or they are not interested.

They ALWAYS say "paint it white"....... I hate that, I grew up with nice dark wood moldings and built-ins..... I think it is ruining the house, you can never get it off again.

When we were house hunting, after seeing the nice molding that'd been freshly painted white, I once told the realtor, "I love this place, and if the owners had not painted all the woodwork white, we'd be talking offers now, but no way I am cleaning all that paint off, they ruined the place". I happened to KNOW that the owners were within hearing...... I hope they gave their agent an earful and a half.

Around here, houses either sell fast, or they take forever. Unlikely houses have sold fast, and nice ones that your mentally challenged realtors would approve of have sat for as long as 2 years.

Tell the realtors to sit on a sharp stick. With all the foreclosures, though, it is a problem to sell a "generic house".

I suspect you have a house that some people are looking for, who won't complain about nickel and granite. You just need to find them. For sure those agents won't.

The worst of it is that you can put in brushed nickel, granite and so forth, and if you DO get a buyer , it's dollars to doughnuts that they will tear it out and replace it with what THEY like...... Go figure.

RancherBill
10-06-2011, 12:28 AM
Some of you guys should stand up - this stuff is going over your head.

IMHO the market in Gary's area is on it's last legs. The realtors are trying to give it life support. If they took all the listings in the area you would probably see that 20-25% of the local houses are for sale. The numbers would quickly show that the average time to sell houses was 3 years. Panic would set in even worse that it is right now. By being selective in what they ALLOW in the PROFESSIONAL real estate system they are keeping the prices up.

YES there is a conspiracy.

Gary is doing nothing to help his real estate market rebound on the micro or macro level. The realtors want 'new roofs' but he is resisting. The roofers in the area are all probably going out of business from lack of work and are dumping their houses into the fire sale market. If everybody on Gary's street got a new roof maybe some roofers could afford to buy some of this real estate inventory.

Gary wants to sell his house to be able to take advantage of the good deals elsewhere.

I can't turn on the radio without out hearing the good deals in Phoenix and other areas that Western Canadians find attractive. I can get guides to what the great zip codes are for real estate. There's alway free seminars on investing in a personal house or buying 5 or more houses.

Vultures are feeding on you, and you are feeding on yourselves.

Gary it is time to XXXX or get off the pot. Put a FSBO sign and dump your house and take your lumps. Don't ask professionals to work and invest their time and money to give you top price for an average house in a tough market without you holding upi your end of the bargain..

winchman
10-06-2011, 03:13 AM
My wife and I looked at at least fifty houses before buying the one we now live in. I hated going in houses that had been "updated" to what the realtors thought would sell better.

In every case, the updates were shoddily done and weren't what we wanted. However, we were expected to happily pay extra for the "move-in-ready" house. In many cases the new work significantly reduced the value of the house from what we would have gladly paid without the updates.

Rosco-P
10-06-2011, 08:44 AM
mmmm, doesn't really work that way. The incremental commission on another 10k is mice nuts. They don't care much if they sell a property for 250 or 260....what they want is listings that sell and sell fast.

only a small percentage of residential real estate agents have much credibility, agreed....but while in many cases the advice may wrong and delivered by an incompetent I believe it is genuine in intent - make the property move not to increase their fees through a higher selling price

Got to agree with McGyver. What's the typical real estate commission 4-7%, negotiable? They will make little to nothing on a faucet and counter top upgrade. But they will keep their job with the real estate company when they sell a listing (especially if it's theirs), when other agents sell none.

While you don't want to turn your home and property into a "Plain Jane", vanilla box, you do want it to appeal to the majority of buyers. Updates that don't cost a fortune and can be done by you or maybe even bartered for make the most sense. If you are going to put down a new kitchen floor and could relocate the heat register to the toe kick of the cabinet, it might be one less thing the potential buyer's wife points out.

J Tiers
10-06-2011, 09:00 AM
One DOES need to make an effort......

it is reasonable to clean up, put in some plantings, give the place curb appeal.

But to put it at "spend 30k or get out of my office", it deserves nothing but a punch in the nose....

The agents say that BS about "spray it all white" because they can...... and because they are not going to make the effort to sell, they want the house to do it for them.

I don't know WHAT they are doing with their time, apparently they are too busy selling houses to spend any time at selling yours.... so you must have a BOOMING market down there, and should have NO trouble selling for top dollar :rolleyes: .

OK, reality again.....

The best thing you can do is to make the APPROACH to the house look great...... I mean as you walk up to it. Yes, "CURB APPEAL".

And don't stop at the door, the entrance hall is important too.

When a person walks up to a house and is already having to make compromises, allowances, etc in their mind......... when they are ALREADY thinking "I hope the inside of this dump is really great"....... Then you have lost out if the place isn't a "palace for a penny". You NEED the granite and nickel to make up for the look of a "dump". (your house is not a "dump", but it has nothing to make it stand out.)

But when they walk up and get a very positive impression, then they are already "thinking nice", and countertops etc become a matter of "this would look great with granite, I bet we could do that".

Incidentally, that works on agents also..... an agent is just a house buyer who isn't looking right now........ that's how they think. They HAVE to.

But since your agents didn't say that sort of thing, they are not serious, they hate you, and are only grudgingly willing to deal with you on THEIR terms.

I would reckon there is another story if they told it..... you need to be reasonable..... not that you were not, but......

lynnl
10-06-2011, 11:26 AM
With all the moving around during a 22 year military career, I bought and sold several houses. The ones I sold myself were the most hassle-free, and profitable.

I guess it depends on your particular area, but from my experiences the realtors' only function was to rake off some 6% of the price.

For just a flat fee of a few hundred dollars, a Title company will do all the legal I-dotting and T-crossing for you.

When houses just aren't moving in your area, they "Just Aren't Moving", and there's NOTHING you OR a Realtor can do to change that. It will just take time (or luck - to get a quick sale).

But if the realtors only want your listing on their terms, that's their prerogative. Nothing you can do about that either, so you might as well save your complaints.

Rosco-P
10-06-2011, 11:34 AM
When considering upgrades, what's good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander. It's a balancing act.

I agree with J Tiers about making the buyers first impression from the outside a good one. You want to lure them in.

I don't know why people go crazy for granite, it stains too easily and chips. My next counter will be a quartz composite one or other solid surface.

The guy may appreciate the upgraded electrical service, modern and efficient furnace and thermo-pane vinyl windows (saves my hard eared money), but not care about the kitchen at all (since he works all the time). She may view the lack of a garbage disposal as deal breaker.

goose
10-06-2011, 12:18 PM
Will you guys get a clue.. It's the worst real estate market in generations... Probably the worst ever in USA history !

Buyers like this, they dont like that...blah, blah, blah.... Who cares? The problem is there are no buyers !

None....zero....zilch...

There's no entry level buying, 'cause there are no jobs for the student-loan encumberred masses of college flunkies. There's no sideways buying because no other home owners can sell their houses. There's no downgrade buying because soon to be retirees can't afford to lose all the "equity" they were counting on.
There may be a small amount of upgrade buying, provided home owners bought at the right time and can move their entry level home at a small profit.



Condition, location, price.

You could pour $30,000 dollars into a house and likely have only a $3000 return for all that investment.

Location, unless you're in a particularly disirable place nobody cares. (and I don't mean the streets are nice and the kids can ride their bikes crap) Super-prime, "to kill for" location. Like Upper East Side or Beacon Hill, or Nob Hill.

Price: You could list Garys home for $1 and it would sell.


Sorry for the rant, but vinyl versus ceramic isn't the issue.

Mcgyver
10-06-2011, 12:27 PM
Price: You could list Garys home for $1 and it would sell.


Sorry for the rant, but vinyl versus ceramic isn't the issue.

took 5 pages, but the core of the matter is finally revealled! :D

Fireman11
10-06-2011, 02:19 PM
The above is true.
An asset is only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it. And in the case of houses, what a bank is willing to lend. And in most cases what they are willing to lend is very low, and require a 20% down payment.
Take a look at zillow for your area, and see where the recent sales are. Or if you have a buddy in the real estate, appraisal or related business, you can see the sales in your area. Prepare yourself to be shocked.

A friend of mine is trying to but a house. He found one he likes, that is a short sale, and has been sitting vacant for almost a year. It was bought for $220k in 2008. They where asking 125k, he offered $110, which was accepted, then the FHA appraisal came back 95k. He is still going back and forth with the bank.

Its a very tough market.

I definitely wouldn't spend money for upgrades, but all the "easy" curb appeal stuff in mandatory.

Some realtors in Chicago won't take your house unless you agree to stage it when it is being shown--declutter, fresh flowers and all that sort of non sense.

Another point is a potential buyer will know what you paid and when, and what you owe on it.

DR
10-06-2011, 02:55 PM
We moved and down sized but we can NOT get any realitors to sell out house. I have talked to 14 realitors so far and I get the same story from all of them. The house MUST be completely repainted, all carpet and vinyl replaced, all brass door know replaced with the IN THING brushed nickle. All water faucets must be replaced with brushed nickle. Kitchen counter tops must be replaced with granit. All ceiling fixtures must be replaced with the most popular style. And get this.......My 24'x30' workshop with an upstair has NO value. All the realitors claim 99% of the buyers are not looking for a workshop so the $20,000. workshop does not add value to the house. Realitors value the 3500 sq ft house at $87 to $91 dollars per sq foot so the sale price is based totally on the square footage of the house this is just about exactly $20,000. below the apraised value. Realitors claim the market is low so the house will sell at about 80% of its apraised value. Another thing realitors all insist they do not want to show the house more than 2 or 3 times to sell it and if someone offers $200,000. for the house they have the right to sell it at that price. Several realitors said, we do not want to show this house 30 or 40 times we have other houses to sell if it won't sell after showing it 2 or 3 times we are not interested in selling it we are wasting our time. All 14 realitors have refused to list the house for sale until we spend $30,000. for the improvements that they want. The house must look like it was built brand new yesterday other wise the realitors refuse to list it for sale. So we must spend $30,000. to list a $335,000. house for $250,000. and the realitor has the right to sell it for $200,000. if they want. One realitor claimed he didn't think the house would sell for more than $160,000. I think they are all a bunch of lazy crooks not wanting to waste time showing the house more than 2 or 3 times then they want it sold at what ever price they are offered.


I'm not familiar with real estate transactions in your state. But, this is not the way they work in California and Washington where I've been involved in six or so transactions in the last eight years. Either you aren't understanding what these agents are telling you or you aren't presenting it accurately.

First off, they won't list your property? Is that because you're insisting on a far higher price than they think is reasonable? Even if that's the case I don't understand it.

Getting a listing is good for agents, even at inflated asking prices. Sooner or later the seller will come to realize what the realistic price is if they're at all motivated to sell. The lister will get a piece of the action whether they're the selling agent or not.

They only wan to show a house 2 or 3 times? That's nonsense.

A good realtor WILL suggest improvements to make a property more salable. A seller can take or leave that advice. If the realtor has a good sales record in your area you may be making a mistake in not listening to this advice.

Who did the appraisal on your property? How recently? By definition I would say a good appraisal is an indication of the current value (selling price) so to say properties sell below that doesn't make sense to me.

I have never heard of a realtor being able to sell a property for less than you would accept. In my experience a seller does not have to accept an offer if it's exactly at the asking price. (That happened to me, I made an all cash offer at the asking price with no contingencies, realtor responded they would wait and see if someone came in higher. This was entirely legal in my state.). I doubt very, very much the agent can decide to sell for lower than you want. You're the boss the agent isn't.

Shop space is not a big plus to the average buyer. It does have value, but not near the value of living space. In my area all the older homes had at least a small shop space, if the not the whole basement. Real estate speculators have a tendency to convert that original shop space to more bedrooms because that's where the money is.


I also don't understand realtors claiming the house has to look brand new, maybe in good repair, but brand new? My home is in area of 80+ year old homes and quite in demand. As they say the three most important things about real estate are the location, location and location.

J Tiers
10-06-2011, 10:07 PM
Houses are not selling?

Nonsense.......

Houses ARE selling. Some of them. And not the ones you'd think.

I see some houses sit on the market for literally years, and others are gone within weeks, to a real, live-in buyer, NOT a "flipper".

Low price is NOT the issue, although being unreasonable is bad for your chances. The answer seems to be that houses sell when there is a buyer who likes THAT house, along with the neighborhood.

This is not necessarily bad news for Gary...... he clearly has a house that has a "target audience", and they are NOT "Brandon and Missy".

it isn't necessarily GOOD news either, the agent needs to point the right buyer at the house. Supposedly the agent is FOR that, to match up a buyer and a house. Houses are not (or WERE not) all the same, and part of their job is to identify what the client wants and show them houses like that.

Unfortunately, many of the agents seem to BE either "Brandon" or "Missy", and to be lazy on top of it. The "spray everything white" instructions are simply an effort to make all houses equal, so that the agent can bring any generic client into any generic listed house, and have a shot, without needing to think, or do any actual "selling". Just parade them through until one sticks.

Kinda like how McDonalds pops up everywhere and makes all places similar, the agents consider that there is a "standard" and everything must look just like that or be "hopelessly dated", 'musty", "dark", etc, etc.

Never mind that some houses ARE old...... mine is 80+ years old, not really THAT old, but definitely not new. I would not WANT a new house, I like plaster walls, stained woodwork, etc. if an agent told me I "had" to paint the woodwork white, i'd tell them where to go and how to get there.

There are still folks who WANT an older house, a REAL one, and there is no sense in trying to make an older house pretend to be a newer one. Nothing wrong with updating, done decently, it is a good thing. But there is no need to screw up the house so it is neither new NOR old..... then NOBODY will want it...... half of the folks will say it is too old, and a lot of the rest will say it's too bad that nice older house got so messed up. I know, I have.