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parrisw
10-07-2011, 06:04 PM
I just bought a mill attachment for my 9" Hercus. And now I need a end mill holder for my lathe? Not sure what to get. What are my options.

Thanks

dalee100
10-07-2011, 06:23 PM
Hi,

Some don't think it's proper, but since I consider milling in a lathe a light duty operation, I just grip it in the 3-jaw chuck and have at it.

The deepest cuts I can do in mild steel are only .050" with a 3/8" end mill. And most of my cuts are less than that. So I don't fear the end mill slipping and spinning in the chuck jaws.

dalee

sch
10-07-2011, 06:33 PM
Assuming a standard MT3/4/5 headstock, an MT collet or endmill holder
designed for mill use (threaded end, no tang) would work. Just run the appropriate threaded rod in the length required through the headstock to fasten in place. MT3 EMH are in the $15-25 range depending on size and a downsize adapter is cheap for MT4->3 or MT5->3. An MT3 collet would be $5-10 cheaper.

radkins
10-07-2011, 06:36 PM
When I built my rifle I did all the milling in my 14" lathe, mostly I just used the three jaw chuck but some operations required using the 4 jaw. My biggest problem was clearance and quite often the hold-down clamps would interfere with the chuck jaws so a dedicated end mill holder that mounts in the spindle sure would be a lot better. Also there is a safety factor involved because sometimes milling requires getting fairly close to the spinning chuck, more so than with normal lathe operations. This is a question I myself have been wanting to ask, is there an endmill holder designed for lathe use? Any suggestions for making something?

radkins
10-07-2011, 06:38 PM
Assuming a standard MT3/4/5 headstock, an MT collet or endmill holder
designed for mill use (threaded end, no tang) would work. Just run the appropriate threaded rod in the length required through the headstock to fasten in place. MT3 EMH are in the $15-25 range depending on size and a downsize adapter is cheap for MT4->3 or MT5->3.



You and I must have been typing at the same time. :)

Chris S.
10-07-2011, 06:45 PM
I just bought a mill attachment for my 9" Hercus. And now I need a end mill holder for my lathe? Not sure what to get. What are my options.

Thanks

Since yours is a 9" I guess you have a 1-1/2" spindle OD. Some guys with small spindles like yours have made an ER collet chuck.

Chris

armedandsafe
10-07-2011, 07:05 PM
Since yours is a 9" I guess you have a 1-1/2" spindle OD. Some guys with small spindles like yours have made an ER collet chuck.

Chris

Since I assume you don't mean E(mergency) R(oom) collet chuck, could you enlighten me as to what that means, please?

Pops

parrisw
10-07-2011, 07:24 PM
Hi,

Some don't think it's proper, but since I consider milling in a lathe a light duty operation, I just grip it in the 3-jaw chuck and have at it.

The deepest cuts I can do in mild steel are only .050" with a 3/8" end mill. And most of my cuts are less than that. So I don't fear the end mill slipping and spinning in the chuck jaws.

dalee


Ok, I think I'll try this first.

parrisw
10-07-2011, 07:26 PM
Assuming a standard MT3/4/5 headstock, an MT collet or endmill holder
designed for mill use (threaded end, no tang) would work. Just run the appropriate threaded rod in the length required through the headstock to fasten in place. MT3 EMH are in the $15-25 range depending on size and a downsize adapter is cheap for MT4->3 or MT5->3. An MT3 collet would be $5-10 cheaper.


I really don't know what the headstock is. Kinda confused with the rest you said, any links you can give to to look it up?

Many thanks.

franco
10-07-2011, 08:20 PM
I just bought a mill attachment for my 9" Hercus. And now I need a end mill holder for my lathe? Not sure what to get. What are my options.

Thanks

Assuming your headstock spindle is 3MT, which it probably is, you have a number of options, including:

1. Use the three jaw chuck (probably the least desirable)

2. Buy 3MT collets in the sizes you need. These mount directly into the spindle taper, and need a drawbar through the spindle to tighten them. This can be made from threaded rod. Buy the correct size and thread of threaded rod after you buy the collets. Different makers use different drawbar threads.

3. Buy a 3MT collet chuck to mount in the spindle taper. This will also require a drawbar. The most versatile collet system for general use uses ER32 collets (ER = extended range, 32 = 32 mm maximum outside diameter). These can be compressed over an extended range compared to most other collet systems and each collet can cover a range of 1 mm in diameter. The collets are available in sets or individually as required, and a full set of 18 metric collets covers all end mills or workpieces from 20 mm to 2 mm and all imperial sizes from 3/4 inch to 3/32 inch.

4. Buy or make an ER32 spindle nose chuck (assuming you have a threaded spindle nose). This has the great advantage that the chuck does not need a drawbar, so the collets can also be used to hold long workpieces which pass through the hollow lathe spindle for normal machining.

If your spindle taper is bigger than 3MT you should have an adapter bush with the spindle taper on the outside and a 3MT taper inside for mounting the headstock center. Alternatives 2 and 3 above can also be used with this bush.

FYI there is a Hercus forum here:

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f189/

Spindle nose chucks for Hercus lathes are discussed and illustrated with photos or drawings in several threads.

Should you want to make a spindle nose ER32 chuck for the Hercus, there is a PDF drawing for one in post #23 here:

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/er32-collet-chuck-where-buy-135729/

franco

Chris S.
10-07-2011, 08:38 PM
Since I assume you don't mean E(mergency) R(oom) collet chuck, could you enlighten me as to what that means, please?

Pops

Like these..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130580121401?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Here's a shop made chuck..
http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=2249.0

There's a large series of ER collets from (I think) ER15 to ER40.

Chris

parrisw
10-07-2011, 09:27 PM
Assuming your headstock spindle is 3MT, which it probably is, you have a number of options, including:

1. Use the three jaw chuck (probably the least desirable)

2. Buy 3MT collets in the sizes you need. These mount directly into the spindle taper, and need a drawbar through the spindle to tighten them. This can be made from threaded rod. Buy the correct size and thread of threaded rod after you buy the collets. Different makers use different drawbar threads.

3. Buy a 3MT collet chuck to mount in the spindle taper. This will also require a drawbar. The most versatile collet system for general use uses ER32 collets (ER = extended range, 32 = 32 mm maximum outside diameter). These can be compressed over an extended range compared to most other collet systems and each collet can cover a range of 1 mm in diameter. The collets are available in sets or individually as required, and a full set of 18 metric collets covers all end mills or workpieces from 20 mm to 2 mm and all imperial sizes from 3/4 inch to 3/32 inch.

4. Buy or make an ER32 spindle nose chuck (assuming you have a threaded spindle nose). This has the great advantage that the chuck does not need a drawbar, so the collets can also be used to hold long workpieces which pass through the hollow lathe spindle for normal machining.

If your spindle taper is bigger than 3MT you should have an adapter bush with the spindle taper on the outside and a 3MT taper inside for mounting the headstock center. Alternatives 2 and 3 above can also be used with this bush.

FYI there is a Hercus forum here:

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f189/

Spindle nose chucks for Hercus lathes are discussed and illustrated with photos or drawings in several threads.

Should you want to make a spindle nose ER32 chuck for the Hercus, there is a PDF drawing for one in post #23 here:

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/er32-collet-chuck-where-buy-135729/

franco


Thanks allot. Building one I think right now is a little beyond me. I've never succesfully threaded anything yet.

dalee100
10-07-2011, 09:34 PM
Ok, I think I'll try this first.

Hi,

Just make sure you tighten all the key holes like you would a drill chuck. This will help getting a more uniform grip on the end mill. And be mindful of your feed rate, we ain't running no 6000lbs mill.:D You should be fine.

Though I will say that if you decide you need a collet setup to hold end mills, I would go with the ER series. It can double as a work holding collet chuck also. A chuck can be bought or made at home if you like.

dalee

parrisw
10-07-2011, 09:59 PM
What about something like this.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3MT-SHANK-ER32-COLLET-CHUCK-BRAND-NEW-/130583930785?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item1e6768a7a1

Al Messer
10-07-2011, 10:37 PM
I made my own. It looks and works just like the one Atlas used to sell for their 6 and 12 inch lathes. The holder is MT3 and has a set screw in the side to keep the cutter from slipping. The draw-in rod was made and threaded to suit the holder. Works like a charm since 1993.

Al

parrisw
10-07-2011, 10:40 PM
I made my own. It looks and works just like the one Atlas used to sell for their 6 and 12 inch lathes. The holder is MT3 and has a set screw in the side to keep the cutter from slipping. The draw-in rod was made and threaded to suit the holder. Works like a charm since 1993.

Al

Any pics? Would love to see it.

sch
10-08-2011, 12:45 AM
The ebay seller referenced for the ER32 holder has a somewhat marginal
reputation, though it is a nice holder, the collet sets are a bit pricey even
at Shars and Glacern. Here is an example of an end mill holder:
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=368-7022&PMPXNO=21379465
Shars er collet sets: http://www.shars.com/product_categories/search/?search=ER32+collet

armedandsafe
10-08-2011, 01:05 AM
Like these..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130580121401?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

Here's a shop made chuck..
http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=2249.0

There's a large series of ER collets from (I think) ER15 to ER40.

Chris

Thanks, Chris. This old electronics nerd is learning about making chips, with the help from such as you.

Pops

jugs
10-08-2011, 04:40 AM
I really don't know what the headstock is. Kinda confused with the rest you said, any links you can give to to look it up?

Many thanks.

As your knowledge base of the lathe is low, I suggest you don't start off with milling.

Print off the following (good bedtime reading + better than sex :D ) ,

http://metalworking.com/tutorials/ARMY-TC-9-524/ch7.pdf

http://www.americanmachinetools.com/...se_a_lathe.htm (http://www.americanmachinetools.com/how_to_use_a_lathe.htm)

that will give you some of the basics, so you can understand the answers to your questions :confused: .

Some good books from -
http://www.lathes.co.uk/books.htm

Also google any terms you see.

You're on a steep learning curve but we'll help you.

Remember -
wear eye protection,
no lose clothing,
careful where you stick your fingers.

good luck

parrisw
10-08-2011, 11:16 AM
As your knowledge base of the lathe is low, I suggest you don't start off with milling.

Print off the following (good bedtime reading + better than sex :D ) ,

http://metalworking.com/tutorials/ARMY-TC-9-524/ch7.pdf

http://www.americanmachinetools.com/...se_a_lathe.htm (http://www.americanmachinetools.com/how_to_use_a_lathe.htm)

that will give you some of the basics, so you can understand the answers to your questions :confused: .

Some good books from -
http://www.lathes.co.uk/books.htm

Also google any terms you see.

You're on a steep learning curve but we'll help you.

Remember -
wear eye protection,
no lose clothing,
careful where you stick your fingers.

good luck


Thanks I'll check out those links. I'm not starting off with milling, I've had the lathe almost two years now. I just wasn't sure on a couple of the terms you used, I guess I should of just searched the terms. I've already bought the milling attachment and have every intention of using it, I just need to learn a few things. I'm a fast learner been working with my hands my whole life.

Many thanks for the help so far.

Chris S.
10-08-2011, 11:49 AM
I've already bought the milling attachment and have every intention of using it, I just need to learn a few things.

I certainly hope you didn't buy something like this..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Palmgren-150-Milling-Attachment-Atlas-Craftsman-Logan-/170695152420?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27be395324

This type was designed to hang off of your tool post. This kind of setup is about as rigid as cooked linguine. Other designs, like South Bend did a better job of it, as their milling attachments mounted directly to the Cross Slide, like this..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-SOUTH-BEND-9-10K-LATHE-MILLING-ATTACHMENT-NICE-/370543062204?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5646166cbc

Even that method isn't nearly as good (Rigid) as this...

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=24736&highlight=milling+lathe

Chris

dave5605
10-08-2011, 05:47 PM
What about one of those cheap 5C collet blocks with the appropriate size collet (he says while ducking for cover)?

parrisw
10-08-2011, 07:56 PM
I certainly hope you didn't buy something like this..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Palmgren-150-Milling-Attachment-Atlas-Craftsman-Logan-/170695152420?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27be395324

This type was designed to hang off of your tool post. This kind of setup is about as rigid as cooked linguine. Other designs, like South Bend did a better job of it, as their milling attachments mounted directly to the Cross Slide, like this..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ORIGINAL-SOUTH-BEND-9-10K-LATHE-MILLING-ATTACHMENT-NICE-/370543062204?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5646166cbc

Even that method isn't nearly as good (Rigid) as this...

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=24736&highlight=milling+lathe

Chris

I got one like the second link. Its an orignal southbend one.

The 3rd looks good, looks custom made. Nice!

vpt
10-08-2011, 08:05 PM
Hi,

Some don't think it's proper, but since I consider milling in a lathe a light duty operation, I just grip it in the 3-jaw chuck and have at it.

The deepest cuts I can do in mild steel are only .050" with a 3/8" end mill. And most of my cuts are less than that. So I don't fear the end mill slipping and spinning in the chuck jaws.

dalee


Yup, I wrap a aluminum strip around the endmill and clamp it in the 3 jaw for quick light usage like mentioned. In fact I used one today in the 3 jaw. I have a collet system and lever closer for heavy stuff.


Oh and the cross slide ones are just fine, built my whole qctp with it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0vk2SQRQnQ

parrisw
10-08-2011, 11:37 PM
Does this look ok, is it a good price?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/8-piece-ER32-Collet-Set-MT3-Collet-Chuck-/310178351725?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item4838120a6d

Also with the ER32 system, will it accept only certain end mills and face mills? I guess as long as its a straight shank?

Chris S.
10-09-2011, 06:30 AM
Does this look ok, is it a good price?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/8-piece-ER32-Collet-Set-MT3-Collet-Chuck-/310178351725?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item4838120a6d


Probably not. The seller is not listing any manufacturer's name, so I assume it's a Chicom import. There are other regular ebay sellers that are also Chicom but their's are a 25 piece set with a $99.00 reserve. No wooden box but you can make your own. Their shipping is more reasonable too!

EDIT: Oops those are ER-40 collets that I'm referring to, but ER-40's will allow for larger collets than the ER-32 anyway.

JCHannum
10-09-2011, 07:45 AM
Jan Michaels, known to us as TGTools, offers the wherewithall to make an ER32 X 1-1/2"-8 as well as completed units.

http://www.tallgrasstools.com/ER-32ColletKit.html

parrisw
10-09-2011, 12:19 PM
Probably not. The seller is not listing any manufacturer's name, so I assume it's a Chicom import. There are other regular ebay sellers that are also Chicom but their's are a 25 piece set with a $99.00 reserve. No wooden box but you can make your own. Their shipping is more reasonable too!

EDIT: Oops those are ER-40 collets that I'm referring to, but ER-40's will allow for larger collets than the ER-32 anyway.

So would ER40's work fine for me in my lathe. Searching ebay right now.

franco
10-10-2011, 12:52 AM
So would ER40's work fine for me in my lathe. Searching ebay right now.

Yes, they would work fine for your lathe, but I suggest they would be very much an overkill for your purposes.

While the ER40 collets will hold up to a 26mm end mill, this would be pushing your milling slide well beyond its limits. The largest ER32 collet will hold a 20mm or 3/4" end mill, which I suspect would also be too big to do useful work with a milling slide on a fairly light 9" lathe, because the design of the milling slide, while OK for light work, is not very rigid. I doubt you will want to use anything over 1/2" normally

If you are also going to use the collets for workholding, the ER40 chuck is quite a bit bigger overall than the ER32 chuck, so access to smaller items is easier when mounted in the smaller chuck. If you have any intention in the future of making or buying a spindle nose chuck so you can pass long workpieces through the headstock spindle, there is no point in going bigger than ER32, because your headstock spindle, if it has a 3MT, won't pass anything bigger than about 20mm anyway.


FWIW I have a similar sized lathe to yours. I bought an ER32 chuck similar to the one in your link in post 25 - possibly a different make, but still Chinese, and it has proved to be quite OK - maybe I was just lucky. It came with a limited selection of metric collets, which could be used to hold all the common end mill shanks.

There were a couple of larger ones, a 13-12 mm one, which holds 1/2" and 12mm end mill shanks, a 10-9, which holds 10mm and 3/8" shanks, an 8-7 which holds 8mm and 5/16", a 7-6, which holds 1/4" and 6mm, and a 4-3, which covers 1/8" and 3mm. I have added individual collets as required until I now have the full set. My personal preference is for the metric series ER32 collets because there are no size gaps between collets - I seem to remember reading somewhere recently there are a few in the standard collet sizes with the 1/16" rather than 1mm steps, though I can't confirm this.

franco

Al Messer
10-11-2011, 08:31 PM
I made my own. It looks and works just like the one Atlas used to sell for their 6 and 12 inch lathes. The holder is MT3 and has a set screw in the side to keep the cutter from slipping. The draw-in rod was made and threaded to suit the holder. Works like a charm since 1993.

Al


I got the photo of my end mill holder as far as posting it on Photobucket. I cannot get it to load to this site! RATZ!

Al

parrisw
10-11-2011, 08:40 PM
Yes, they would work fine for your lathe, but I suggest they would be very much an overkill for your purposes.

While the ER40 collets will hold up to a 26mm end mill, this would be pushing your milling slide well beyond its limits. The largest ER32 collet will hold a 20mm or 3/4" end mill, which I suspect would also be too big to do useful work with a milling slide on a fairly light 9" lathe, because the design of the milling slide, while OK for light work, is not very rigid. I doubt you will want to use anything over 1/2" normally

If you are also going to use the collets for workholding, the ER40 chuck is quite a bit bigger overall than the ER32 chuck, so access to smaller items is easier when mounted in the smaller chuck. If you have any intention in the future of making or buying a spindle nose chuck so you can pass long workpieces through the headstock spindle, there is no point in going bigger than ER32, because your headstock spindle, if it has a 3MT, won't pass anything bigger than about 20mm anyway.


FWIW I have a similar sized lathe to yours. I bought an ER32 chuck similar to the one in your link in post 25 - possibly a different make, but still Chinese, and it has proved to be quite OK - maybe I was just lucky. It came with a limited selection of metric collets, which could be used to hold all the common end mill shanks.

There were a couple of larger ones, a 13-12 mm one, which holds 1/2" and 12mm end mill shanks, a 10-9, which holds 10mm and 3/8" shanks, an 8-7 which holds 8mm and 5/16", a 7-6, which holds 1/4" and 6mm, and a 4-3, which covers 1/8" and 3mm. I have added individual collets as required until I now have the full set. My personal preference is for the metric series ER32 collets because there are no size gaps between collets - I seem to remember reading somewhere recently there are a few in the standard collet sizes with the 1/16" rather than 1mm steps, though I can't confirm this.

franco


Thanks. I've ordered a set of MT3 End Mill holders, and end mill set and a fly cutter set, this should get me started. I really want a stand alone mill, but $$ is tight right now, so going to save up for one, and really don't have allot of room in the shop right now for one.

mikerolly
10-12-2011, 07:27 AM
I had the same questions a few months back, before I found this forum.

Ended up getting a 5C collet chuck and 19 collets for it. I just hold the endmills in the appropriate collet and do some milling with a vertical mill slide mounted on the compound slide.

Whilst not as handy as a dedicated mill, it does allow you to get some surprisingly good work done. Just takes time and planning of your work positioning; in relation to the small amount of adjustment allowed by the vertical mill slide.

Mike

parrisw
10-19-2011, 10:18 PM
Ok, I got all my stuff. Now, what would be the best way to hold parts in this mill adapter? Its a old southbend part, and it just has two screws to hold parts, a vice would be much nicer, could I make an adapter and bolt a vice to this. One thing now that I want to do is to hold a small 2 stroke piston to do some milling on it and it wont fit in this.

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk107/parrisw/IMG_0120.jpg

Chris S.
10-19-2011, 10:49 PM
Gee, the only way this picture could possibly be worse is if you hadn't opened the box. :rolleyes:

As I said earlier, you will be limited with that milling attachment. This will provide much more options.

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=24736&highlight=milling+lathe

parrisw
10-19-2011, 10:56 PM
Gee, the only way this picture could possibly be worse is if you hadn't opened the box. :rolleyes:

As I said earlier, you will be limited with that milling attachment. This will provide much more options.

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=24736&highlight=milling+lathe


Thanks, that looks good. Which I may to at some time. But there has got to be a way I can mount a vise to this, I'll come up with something, this piston isn't very big.

How did he hold that big plate to the cross slide?

Sorry about the pic, I took it with my phone, but you got the idea. I could get a better one if needed.

parrisw
10-19-2011, 11:05 PM
Got another question. How do I go about sharpening a bit for the flycutter? Any refrences anywhere.

Chris S.
10-19-2011, 11:46 PM
Thanks, that looks good. Which I may to at some time. But there has got to be a way I can mount a vise to this, I'll come up with something, this piston isn't very big.

How did he hold that big plate to the cross slide?

Sorry about the pic, I took it with my phone, but you got the idea. I could get a better one if needed.

You already have overhang with the SB attachment. If you hang an additional vice on it things will get worse.

He described his mounting method in that link but SB also provided a couple of threaded holes in the top of the CS.

No need to post another pic. We've all seen a SB milling attachment.

Chris

parrisw
10-19-2011, 11:51 PM
You already have overhang with the SB attachment. If you hang an additional vice on it things will get worse.

He described his mounting method in that link but SB also provided a couple of threaded holes in the top of the CS.

No need to post another pic. We've all seen a SB milling attachment.

Chris


Ok, thanks. My lathe is actually a Hercus, a South Bend copy. I didn't notice any threaded holes, I'll have a look though.

For most of the light milling that I'll do, you think a small vise on there would be a big deal?

In that same thread he also has this, it has much more overhang then mine would ever have with a vise.

http://vts.bc.ca/pics/mill4.jpg

Chris S.
10-20-2011, 12:21 AM
For most of the light milling that I'll do, you think a small vise on there would be a big deal?

In that same thread he also has this, it has much more overhang then mine would ever have with a vise.



Yes, but he also said this...


Then there is the more conventional milling attachment, but a bit beefier than the commercial ones.

I actually find I don't (didn't) use the full blown attachment very often. Nearly all the milling can be done with the tables and they are more rigid by far. Paul's is also the nicest I have seen, mine included.

parrisw
10-20-2011, 12:49 AM
Yes, but he also said this...


True, but there is still way more overhang, and its still hanging off the cross slide.




All I'm trying to do is find a way to hold this small piston, 52mm around. I can't see how this poses a problem. I'm not looking to find out why I can't do it, I'm looking for ideas on the best way to go about it, if not I'll figure it out on my own.

vpt
10-20-2011, 08:31 AM
I made a little aluminum jaw with a V in it for in between the bolts and the work.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3391/newscrew037.jpg

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/479/millingtoolholder019.jpg

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/5984/heaterplug73009.jpg

http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/9537/tap005.jpg

Chris S.
10-20-2011, 09:53 AM
I made a little aluminum jaw with a V in it for in between the bolts and the work.


Nice photography! Maybe that will work for him.

Curious.. Was the far end of the lead screw supported?

Chris

parrisw
10-20-2011, 10:34 AM
Cool, thanks for the great ideas! Great pics too.

Chris S.
10-20-2011, 11:06 AM
Cool, thanks for the great ideas! Great pics too.
Honestly, I thought you were saying that your stock wouldn't fit in your attachment's slot.... Sorry! :D

vpt
10-20-2011, 04:00 PM
Nice photography! Maybe that will work for him.

Curious.. Was the far end of the lead screw supported?

Chris


No support on any of the leadscrews that I have done.

parrisw
10-20-2011, 05:15 PM
Honestly, I thought you were saying that your stock wouldn't fit in your attachment's slot.... Sorry! :D

Well it won't stand up straight in there, but laying on its side is an issue too, that's why I wasn't sure how to hold it. I have another idea that I think will work, I have a piston holder that I chuck up In the lathe, and I think I can use that, I'll post up some pics when I set it up.

Chris S.
10-20-2011, 07:16 PM
No support on any of the leadscrews that I have done.
I asked because one of the precautions when disconnecting the far end bearing support on my heavy10 was to never leave it unsupported.

vpt
10-20-2011, 08:37 PM
Are you talking about the first picture and supporting the leadscrew that is toward the camera? That was only like a 18-20" leadscrew for the Y axis on the surface grinder.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/5061/nut2010.jpg

parrisw
10-20-2011, 11:16 PM
Well, I got done what I needed too, well almost finished, but just made a real simple adapter with some angle iron, crude but effective. Its kinda hanging out there a bit so, it does chatter a little on heavy cuts, but works, I gota save for a mill.

Actually the first project I did was to make one more bolt for the hold downs, you can see it in these photos, I just took a 3/8" bolt and threaded it all the way and milled the head to a square like the other, came out ok for my first milling project, very simple, but hey.

Next I need to make a handle for the top of the milling attachment, its missing.

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk107/parrisw/Lathe/P1040160.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk107/parrisw/Lathe/P1040159.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk107/parrisw/Lathe/P1040158.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk107/parrisw/Lathe/P1040157.jpg

Chris S.
10-21-2011, 09:27 AM
Are you talking about the first picture and supporting the leadscrew that is toward the camera? That was only like a 18-20" leadscrew for the Y axis on the surface grinder.



Ahhh, that paints a different picture. :D

Chris S.
10-21-2011, 10:20 AM
Well, I got done ....


Congrats! I love it when a plan comes together. Quote: Col. Hannibal Smith
Even if it's not mine!:D

Chris S.
10-21-2011, 06:47 PM
If you ever decide that you want to make the milling table posted earlier in this thread the details can be found here. Scroll down the page. ;)
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/what-have-you-made-your-south-bend-147978/index7.html#post1190516

I extracted the link from a current collet stop thread here on HSM.

parrisw
10-21-2011, 09:26 PM
If you ever decide that you want to make the milling table posted earlier in this thread the details can be found here. Scroll down the page. ;)
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/what-have-you-made-your-south-bend-147978/index7.html#post1190516

I extracted the link from a current collet stop thread here on HSM.


Thanks. I do. Its just that for this when needed to make mutiple cuts in height, the table would be way slower, since you'd make one cut then stop and shim up the piece and make another cut.

I'm thinking about doing away with the round holder and see if the piston will sit right against the vise.

parrisw
10-21-2011, 09:27 PM
Anybody think it would be a problem to actually mill the vise wider on this? Another 1/2" would be great, 1/4" on either side.

Chris S.
10-21-2011, 11:36 PM
Anybody think it would be a problem to actually mill the vise wider on this? Another 1/2" would be great, 1/4" on either side.

I've seen broken attachments sold on ebay with descriptions that they've been repaired by brazing, so I know they can be stressed and broken, without removing any meat from them. Because of this I don't want to be the guy to say yes to this, though I'd be tempted to do it too.

Your idea of fastening a small milling vice to it is sounding better all the time. :D

parrisw
10-22-2011, 12:04 AM
I've seen broken attachments sold on ebay with descriptions that they've been repaired by brazing, so I know they can be stressed and broken, without removing any meat from them. Because of this I don't want to be the guy to say yes to this, though I'd be tempted to do it too.

Your idea of fastening a small milling vice to it is sounding better all the time. :D


ha ha. Ya, I was wondering about that. I'd rather not put a vise on for the reasons you've stated. I think I just need a milling machine.

Chris S.
10-22-2011, 12:36 AM
I'm curious.. Even if you opened it up another .5" how would that round piston fit in that shallow slot?

parrisw
10-22-2011, 01:17 AM
I'm curious.. Even if you opened it up another .5" how would that round piston fit in that shallow slot?


Yes, your right, it wouldn't fit that well. But would allow me to do other "stuff".

Had another thought, maybe its and even dumber thought. But what about milling off that whole vise, and leaving a flat surface, then taping some holes to bolt a vise to, would be much better then just hanging one of the end of it now.

parrisw
10-22-2011, 01:23 AM
On another frontier. I just tried flycutting, can't believe how well it works. Sharpened up a HSS bit and put the flycutter in the lathe, and stuck the angle iron bracket I made for holding the piston, and thought I'd try to square it up nice. I'm really happy with the finish of it.

The marks on the heel of it are when the cutter started coming back around again. I need to lengthen it a bit.

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk107/parrisw/Lathe/P1040163.jpg

Chris S.
10-22-2011, 09:58 AM
Nice fly cutting!

Last night I sketched this idea up in one of my electronics cads. That was before your idea of milling off the ears and mounting a vice to the flat face. I think I like your idea better but here it is anyway.

Chris

http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa331/EdisonTheMan/MillingAdaptor.jpg

parrisw
10-22-2011, 10:27 AM
Nice fly cutting!

Last night I sketched this idea up in one of my electronics cads. That was before your idea of milling off the ears and mounting a vice to the flat face. I think I like your idea better but here it is anyway.

Chris



Cool drawing, that's a really great idea! Would be much less added wieght hanging off the end. I'm going to get a vise first and see if milling off the end will work, I'm a little worried about ruining something that's perfectly good.

vpt
10-22-2011, 10:36 AM
Does your milling attachment have a swivel for the vise part like mine? If so it would be easy to turn up a new vise for the attachment with bigger jaws.

Just round stock, bore a round hole, tap a couple holes for set screws, mount the stock on the mill attachment and mill out the vise jaw slot.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3391/newscrew037.jpg

Chris S.
10-22-2011, 11:32 AM
Cool drawing, that's a really great idea! Would be much less added wieght hanging off the end. I'm going to get a vise first and see if milling off the end will work, I'm a little worried about ruining something that's perfectly good.

The added weight isn't much of an issue, probably just the opposite. It's the overhang from the center point of the milling attachment that should be kept to a minimum. I think your model uses a dovetail like this. The shorter the overhang the better. Other opinions are welcomed though. ;)
http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa331/EdisonTheMan/MillingAdaptor-1.jpg

vpt
10-22-2011, 01:53 PM
Have an idea, this was probably mentioned. Cut the top jaw with the hold down bolts off. Take a square stock and drill it for 4 or so bolts and tap them into the milling attachment. Then drill and tap the vertical holes for the hold down bolts.

A horrible paint pic.

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6058/p1040157g.jpg

parrisw
10-22-2011, 05:20 PM
Does your milling attachment have a swivel for the vise part like mine? If so it would be easy to turn up a new vise for the attachment with bigger jaws.

Just round stock, bore a round hole, tap a couple holes for set screws, mount the stock on the mill attachment and mill out the vise jaw slot.



No it doesn't unfortunately, yours looks like a much better setup then mine.

parrisw
10-22-2011, 05:22 PM
Have an idea, this was probably mentioned. Cut the top jaw with the hold down bolts off. Take a square stock and drill it for 4 or so bolts and tap them into the milling attachment. Then drill and tap the vertical holes for the hold down bolts.

A horrible paint pic.

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6058/p1040157g.jpg

That could be very doable! So your saying just bolt a new jaw higher up.

vpt
10-22-2011, 08:11 PM
That could be very doable! So your saying just bolt a new jaw higher up.


Yes, after milling the surface of the attachment flat in that area so everything is square. I was thinking after posting and I wonder if the top jaw is cut off in a bandsaw it might reusable? Might be easily cracked being cast and that small. Just need a shim the thickness of the cut and whatever material has to be taken off to make the surface flat.

This is all assuming the milling attachment casting is thick enough to get a bolt in a few threads at least?

parrisw
10-22-2011, 09:02 PM
Yes, after milling the surface of the attachment flat in that area so everything is square. I was thinking after posting and I wonder if the top jaw is cut off in a bandsaw it might reusable? Might be easily cracked being cast and that small. Just need a shim the thickness of the cut and whatever material has to be taken off to make the surface flat.

This is all assuming the milling attachment casting is thick enough to get a bolt in a few threads at least?

Yes, its pretty thick behind the jaws. I'll take a pic of that view, over and inch anyway.

J Tiers
10-22-2011, 09:48 PM
Since you have essentially a SouthBend, these folks make kits which look extremely stout and useful.... MUCH nicer than othe devices for milling in the lathe.

http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/MLA-5.html

http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/S-4382A.html

http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/U-12.html

I have not tried these, I have a Palmgren 250, which , if not as bad as was described earlier, is clearly not the best.... And I have a couple of mills and shapers, so I have other alternatives.

Chris S.
10-22-2011, 10:16 PM
Have an idea, this was probably mentioned. Cut the top jaw with the hold down bolts off. Take a square stock and drill it for 4 or so bolts and tap them into the milling attachment. Then drill and tap the vertical holes for the hold down bolts.


I like your idea but I wonder if only bolting the new jaw to the milling attachment will suffice. The levering stress on those bolts will be very high. Perhaps a shallow mortise milled into the attachment that accepts a snug tenon that's both brazed and bolted would be more secure? Grade 8 bolts would be a good idea too. It's just a thought. ;)

Chris S.
10-22-2011, 11:47 PM
I have not tried these, I have a Palmgren 250, which , if not as bad as was described earlier, is clearly not the best....

I guess you're referring to a remarks I made earlier. It's not the attachment that I criticized, it was the mounting method. The palmgren photos I've seen have it hanging off the top slide, straddling a lantern post with a hold down bar through it. It just seems to me that mounting directly to the CS makes for more rigid mounting. On the other hand, I guess there's nothing to stop anyone from making a riser block and mounting it to the CS.

parrisw
10-23-2011, 12:51 AM
Since you have essentially a SouthBend, these folks make kits which look extremely stout and useful.... MUCH nicer than othe devices for milling in the lathe.

http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/MLA-5.html

http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/S-4382A.html

http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/U-12.html

I have not tried these, I have a Palmgren 250, which , if not as bad as was described earlier, is clearly not the best.... And I have a couple of mills and shapers, so I have other alternatives.

That looks very good, but its hard to make heads or tails on what they are saying?? I don't really understand what's all included, how old is that add? are the prices really that cheap?

parrisw
10-23-2011, 12:52 AM
I like your idea but I wonder if only bolting the new jaw to the milling attachment will suffice. The levering stress on those bolts will be very high. Perhaps a shallow mortise milled into the attachment that accepts a snug tenon that's both brazed and bolted would be more secure? Grade 8 bolts would be a good idea too. It's just a thought. ;)


Grade 8 bolts would be a must!! Fine thread too. I too wondered about bolting on the upper piece. Don't know how much room there would be for a mortise and tenon. Kinda make my first idea of milling off the whole face and bolding on a vise.

vpt
10-23-2011, 08:11 AM
I like to use the grade 10 socketed head bolts for stuff like this when I can. If the 4 bolts into the attachment were staggered a bit they should take the force better.

Milling off the whole deal and mounting a vise would be great as well! You could even make it rotate on an axis similar to how mine is. I will tell you that being able to rotate the jaw part of the attachment is a wonderful thing! Makes it much easier to mill a hex.

J Tiers
10-23-2011, 10:53 AM
That looks very good, but its hard to make heads or tails on what they are saying?? I don't really understand what's all included, how old is that add? are the prices really that cheap?


The items are KITS...... or I think you can maybe buy the plans only.

The kits have the various special materials and castings you need, but you do the work.

IIRC they suggest you make teh "transfer block" first, and then you can use it in making any other of the things you want, or just use it alone.

The two big issues with milling on the lathe are:

1) the mounting for the work tends to be a bit of a "make-shift", which means it can be somewhat loose, as with the Palmgren.

2) typically the work-holder has relatively little mass, which means it moves easily with cutting forces. If you can add mass, as with the MLA "transfer block", or the relatively massive milling attachment they sell, a LOT of the troubles go away, simply because the cutter forces just can't "kick" the part plus holder easily.
The larger mass tends to "save" the palmgren to some degree, since it is designed for light cuts., which don't provide much cutting force.


The Palmgren mounted to a Logan... uyes it is a bit loose, but not totally unusable.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/jstanley/Palmgren.jpg

Chris S.
10-23-2011, 12:07 PM
That looks very good, but its hard to make heads or tails on what they are saying?? I don't really understand what's all included, how old is that add? are the prices really that cheap?

They've been there for over 10 years. The stuff is beautifully designed but as said by J. Tiers, they're raw CI castings. You do the machining on them but I think the cranks, hardware, etc are finished.



Grade 8 bolts would be a must!! Fine thread too. I too wondered about bolting on the upper piece. Don't know how much room there would be for a mortise and tenon. Kinda make my first idea of milling off the whole face and bolding on a vise.

Yes, I like the vice idea too. VPT's idea of providing rotational positioning sounds like a great idea also.

parrisw
10-23-2011, 03:18 PM
I like to use the grade 10 socketed head bolts for stuff like this when I can. If the 4 bolts into the attachment were staggered a bit they should take the force better.

Milling off the whole deal and mounting a vise would be great as well! You could even make it rotate on an axis similar to how mine is. I will tell you that being able to rotate the jaw part of the attachment is a wonderful thing! Makes it much easier to mill a hex.


Another great idea!! being able to index the vise too would be really great! To make it easy I could just get a indexable vise? Or how else would I do it?

parrisw
10-23-2011, 03:20 PM
Thanks again to everyone else for the great idea's, if I don't respond to you individually.

Man, these hobby's that compoud on hobbies are expensive! I orignally bought the lathe to so some work on Chainsaws. I modify them for more HP, then, its like well if I had this too it would be even better, and well, since I got that, might as well get this too!! Then buying stuff for the chainsaws and machine tools and tooling really adds up! Now I want a MILL, LOL.

Chris S.
10-23-2011, 05:32 PM
Thanks again to everyone else for the great idea's, if I don't respond to you individually.

Man, these hobby's that compoud on hobbies are expensive! I orignally bought the lathe to so some work on Chainsaws. I modify them for more HP, then, its like well if I had this too it would be even better, and well, since I got that, might as well get this too!! Then buying stuff for the chainsaws and machine tools and tooling really adds up! Now I want a MILL, LOL.

Any time spent making jigs and fixtures more than pays for itself, if not by the mere satisfaction of doing it, then by the fact that the next time you have to do a job you have the means to do it. If you find that you do a lot of repetitive tasks these shop spun jigs and fixtures are priceless!

parrisw
10-23-2011, 07:08 PM
Any time spent making jigs and fixtures more than pays for itself, if not by the mere satisfaction of doing it, then by the fact that the next time you have to do a job you have the means to do it. If you find that you do a lot of repetitive tasks these shop spun jigs and fixtures are priceless!


Ya, I agree!! That piston holder has paid itself over many times. Its just a brass pin that goes through the pin boss, with a tapped hole in it, and the aluminun mandrel has grooves to fit different sized pistons, just bolt it down and its centered!

parrisw
10-23-2011, 07:44 PM
I will tell you that being able to rotate the jaw part of the attachment is a wonderful thing! Makes it much easier to mill a hex.


Ok, I just went and looked, and it is indexable. Don't know why I thought it wasn't.

Now maybe you can help me understand, since I'm having a moment and I can't think why, how does it help mill a hex?

Chris S.
10-23-2011, 10:55 PM
Ok, I just went and looked, and it is indexable. Don't know why I thought it wasn't.

Now maybe you can help me understand, since I'm having a moment and I can't think why, how does it help mill a hex?

Sleep on it overnight. By morning it'll be a "DUH" moment. ;)

parrisw
10-23-2011, 11:08 PM
Sleep on it overnight. By morning it'll be a "DUH" moment. ;)


Ya, probably. I'm very visual learner, if I see something, its easy for me to do. Sometimes when I think about how to do something I have a few DUH moments.

parrisw
10-23-2011, 11:39 PM
I'm guessing now that, you'd clamp the round stock, then machine one flat, then rotate the vise x amount of degrees? Now how would you know how much to mill off for each flat?

parrisw
10-23-2011, 11:59 PM
Dam, I'm thinking harder now, and I really fail to see how a indexing vise helps you mill hex's, espcically on a lathe when you can't spin the vise 360.