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View Full Version : Benjamin Moore KP22 .vs. M22



LHC
10-08-2011, 09:30 PM
Right, so off I went to the Benjamin Moore store to find out if they carry M22 paint after reading some positive rants about it on the forum here via the search function.

"It's been reformulated to KP22 - it's basically the same product" was the response I got. Right, well I won't be purchasing anything today and out I went.

Doing a quick dig on the internet yielded a .pdf of the KP22 product and the fine print showed Benjamin Moore Canada on the bottom. This made me even more suspicious that the KP22 is a "Canadian version" - and that perhaps is some gimped product that is inferior to the "real one". A common practice up here in Canada . Perhaps lower VOCs to help save us all by the nanny state?

In any case, what I'd really like to know is - can you still get M22 - either in Canada or the US (I can easily purchase in the US ) or is the KP22 a replacement that is being sold on both sides of the border now, and if so, does anyone have any experience with refurbishing a machine with it (painting onto bare cast iron) ?

Thanks for any pointers and/or help people can pass along.

Cheers,
Lewis

RussZHC
10-09-2011, 12:22 AM
interesting...do not be 100% sure you can even get the entire Benjamin Moore line of products in Canada, or at least not without special order...but that is your question :D

that particular product did not even come up in the discussion when I was looking...and what I did find and use I am not particularly happy with...I used their "133" which is supposed to be their best alkyd (non-urethane) [had to make stops at a few stores as, here at least, not even all B-Moore dealers sell all product lines and some have no clue of product other than for interiors exists]...I found it took hugely varying amounts of time to dry both within a colour but also between colours under same application conditions...very high gloss (so the black shows every little mark...colour was my choice so that is down to me)...it cleans well from any sort of coolant/oil etc. used so far BUT it is not nearly as abrasion resistant as I was lead to believe...I am not talking dragging a hardened tool point across it but rather very small fine chips or long thin curly chips or for that matter any kind of particle not completely smooth...oddly, given the varying drying rates, of all the paints I used [and that is quite a bunch from various mfg for various things from cars to houses, drywall to rough steel] the unused portions have dried out in the can faster than anything else [and I am very careful about re-closing]

most of their metal paints are recommended to use with primer...I found, if anything, it seems to be better on bare metal than primered surface...bit tough to say long term, the paint has been on about a year but lathe only in full use for about 4 months...there are supposed to be support products to control full cure times etc. but don't like your chances of finding those as "stock" items...

lazlo
10-09-2011, 12:59 AM
MP22 is a one-part (non catalyzed) urethane. I've heard it described as a cost engineered version of Interlux Brightside, which is highly regarded on the Monarch forum. I was interested in MP22 because Benjamin Moore will color match it (so you can match parts on machine tools), where Brightside only comes in white and grey (IIRC).

LHC
10-12-2011, 01:03 PM
A bit of further info on this.
I sent a query to the BM people as outlined below and got the following response.

I am assuming that if people have used the M22 with fillers/glazes underneath and have not had a problem, then there will be no issues with the "KP22" either.

Here's the query I sent to BM -

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I am considering your P22 / KP22 for the restoration of a vintage metalworking machine and have a couple of questions related to these products -

1)
I have seen the P/N of P22 and KP22 used in various places and am wondering - are these two different products and if so, what are the differences in them and their applications?

2)
The KP22 is recommended over bare metal. Can this product also be used over the common polyester fillers that are used to smooth imperfections in cast iron pieces. Products such as bondo, and surfacing glazes etc.?

3)
If a phosphoric acid is used to pre-treat the metal after the degreasing/paint stripping process, will this have an advese affect on the application of KP22 over top ?

4)
I understand that this product (KP22) is replacing the M22. Are there any performance differences between the M22 and KP22 other than the lower VOCs. Also, can the M22 product still be obtained in either Canada or the US ?

-------------------------------
And the response -

Thank you for your recent inquiry.



1) M22 – KP22 the prefix is allocated to a location. In Canada, it used to be M22 and since our whole industrial line was reviewed about 3 years ago it became KP22. There was no modification to the product in this case only label change.

2) We have not tested as such therefore, we suggest testing it on a small patch first.

3) No

4) Stock of M22 is depleted in all our warehouses. Since all our stores are independently owned and operated, we have no access to their inventory. In the U.S. and in Canada M-N-KP22, it’s all the same formulation. For further details on these products, please consult the attached Technical Data Sheets and Material Safety Data Sheet.

LHC
10-12-2011, 02:19 PM
Hold the press ! New e-mail just arrived - seems the cust. service rep was way off base here. I have to commend them on getting back to me with what seems to be a complete reversal. The M22 and KP22 are not the same.

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My sincere apology on misleading you with M22to the KP22. Please read our chemist’s response:



They are totally different formulas: different resins, different additives, so there is no telling what you’d get In terms of appearance, color matching, and properties if you mixed them. In these cases it is just no worth the risk or trouble to intermix. There are separate formulas and therefore should be treated as such. Of course the customer may try to do it on their own, but we do not advise it.

LHC
10-13-2011, 10:09 AM
Right, and the final word from the US lab where the paint is formulated -

M22 is the old version, it is no longer compliant in Canada (or most of the US) due to high VOC (I think there is a year exemption for what was on the shelf when the new law went into effect September 2009, which why he may still sell M22).

M22 was re-formulated to get the compliant KP22 version. Even the lower VOC KP22 is restricted to metal only due to its VOC.