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View Full Version : OT Cleaning Car Fuel Injectors



davidwdyer
10-09-2011, 07:45 PM
I think I remember on this forum someone, maybe Evan, commenting about some cheap, non polluting liquid to clean fuel injectors.

Anyone out there know something???

quadrod
10-09-2011, 07:49 PM
look for a product called BG44K. works pretty good.

jkilroy
10-09-2011, 08:38 PM
Xylene works great to clean injectors, and a pretty good octane booster as well.

Bill736
10-09-2011, 08:58 PM
If you can find Chevron Techron fuel system cleaner, or their fuel injector cleaner, buy it. One bottle treats 12 gallons of gasoline. I've had very good luck using it, and if it's from Chevron, it's not just some " me too" product.

Arcane
10-10-2011, 12:53 AM
I use Texas Refinery Corporation`s DZL-LENE XL/10.

Metalmelter
10-10-2011, 06:57 AM
Are these injectors in the car or on the bench?

I successfully refurbished a set of 8 ford injectors using an old fuel pump, a mix of MEK and some other solvents and an ultrasonic cleaner. It's been done before and you can Google it for more info. You can purchase rebuild kits from folks on eBay. The kit contains all the o-rings and parts needed.

First is a good ultrasonic bath. I used Purple Power and it worked great. Then replaced all the needed parts and run the solvents through the injector under pressure. If you look carefully you can watch the spray pattern come back to it's proper shape without fuel dripping. My rig consisted of a simple spare/old fuel pump, a T connection for a pressure gauge and a small container to hold the solvent and pump.

It can save you a bunch of money and it's a fun weekend project too. ;)

vpt
10-10-2011, 07:36 AM
I just got my injectors back in 2 days ago after doing a rebuild.

They needed some work.
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/6313/excursion0rings008.jpg

SteveF
10-10-2011, 07:43 AM
On another board a person claiming to be an engineer for one of the oil companies mentioned that while all gas meets minimum standards, they aren't the same. Based on his comments and some research I stopped buying gas at the local grocery store and only buy gas at the nearby Shell station. The very noticeable roughness at idle with both my pickup and car went away after about 2 months.

http://www.toptiergas.com/index.html

Steve

moe1942
10-10-2011, 08:45 AM
I use Sea Foam in all my engines.

vpt
10-10-2011, 09:00 AM
On another board a person claiming to be an engineer for one of the oil companies mentioned that while all gas meets minimum standards, they aren't the same. Based on his comments and some research I stopped buying gas at the local grocery store and only buy gas at the nearby Shell station. The very noticeable roughness at idle with both my pickup and car went away after about 2 months.

http://www.toptiergas.com/index.html

Steve



Its the ethanol! Its junk! I agree shell is the best gas and thats all I use!

pgmrdan
10-10-2011, 11:49 AM
I'll second the recommendation for Sea Foam.

Don't get it at Wal-Mart. They're pricing some things at outrageously high prices. IIRC, they want about $10 a can.

Norther Tools wants about $6.50 a can, again, IIRC.

davidwdyer
10-10-2011, 11:57 AM
Ummmm, I'm not near a Wal Mart which has Sea Foam. Also, the gas here has a VERY high concentration of alcohol.

Do any of the other additives you put in your take help?

aboard_epsilon
10-10-2011, 03:42 PM
I made a machine to do it, one at a time ..

Don't ask about the electronics, an electronics engineer friend did those for me..i did all the rest including the electrical enclosure fitting out.

on the circuit board is basically is common injector chip called
LM1949 - Injector Drive Controller..plus two 555's

with this machine ..i was able to measure how many cc's were pulsed into a beaker over a set time ..so could match injectors .

could put the injector into it backwards ..and flush it out ..
could pulse injector in ultrasonic tank.

could varie the pulse rate and pulse duration.

could measure the maximum amount any injector could put out

could study the pattern of the spray .

was quite an interesting project

it works on air over hydraulic ..the tank is..or was a small re-susable camping gaz container .

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/LPG%20INJECTORS/bench1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/LPG%20INJECTORS/bench2.jpg

all the best.markj

uncle pete
10-10-2011, 04:35 PM
I also think the same about Shell fuel, All gasoline is NOT equal. I know people who fill up at the cheapest places possible. Almost without exception they all have injector, filter, and fuel pump problems long before they should. (knock on wood) I've yet to ever replace a fuel pump or injectors.

Maybe it's OT but, I once had a Shell gas station rip me off thru my credit card. Instead of $37.00 they ran it thru at $370.00. They sent me a check for $100, Then no further contact despite numerous long distance phone calls. I contacted the Canadian Shell head office. After they checked it out they sent me a check for what I'd lost. I've yet to see any business do that in todays world. Customer loyalty is worth a lot, Far more companys should learn that lesson. Shell head office also told me that the service station who ripped me off would be having my problems and a few others brought up at the end of their contact with Shell.

Pete


On another board a person claiming to be an engineer for one of the oil companies mentioned that while all gas meets minimum standards, they aren't the same. Based on his comments and some research I stopped buying gas at the local grocery store and only buy gas at the nearby Shell station. The very noticeable roughness at idle with both my pickup and car went away after about 2 months.

http://www.toptiergas.com/index.html

Steve

J Weber
10-10-2011, 05:33 PM
Had a old junkyard owner buddy that used a homemade carb/injector cleaner the swore by. Acetone and type F transmission oil. Mixed 50/50. He used it in both gas and diesel engines.He said the type F oil had a detergent additive and the acetone cut the carbon.This was 30 years ago and I have not tried it.

tdmidget
10-10-2011, 07:20 PM
Had a old junkyard owner buddy that used a homemade carb/injector cleaner the swore by. Acetone and type F transmission oil. Mixed 50/50. He used it in both gas and diesel engines.He said the type F oil had a detergent additive and the acetone cut the carbon.This was 30 years ago and I have not tried it.

I wouldn't take that or any other advice from his ilk. THINK about it. Gasoline has acetone in it, ( read the MSDS). Type F is red colored hydraulic oil. And just how many fuel injectors had he come across 30 years ago in a junk yard?

J. Randall
10-10-2011, 10:20 PM
I wouldn't take that or any other advice from his ilk. THINK about it. Gasoline has acetone in it, ( read the MSDS). Type F is red colored hydraulic oil. And just how many fuel injectors had he come across 30 years ago in a junk yard?

You may not take any advice from me either, but I have used acetone with good results for several yrs. As far as the atf, you can mix it with acetone but it won't stay mixed, at least any I ever tried just separated right back out.
James

Willy
10-10-2011, 11:00 PM
Chevron's Techron has earned almost legendary status for years in the automotive press for it's ability to clean fuel and induction systems.

http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/additives/tcp.aspx

Although my personal anecdotal experiences have all been positive I won't bore you with them but I will add this....

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techron


Hyundai, Volvo and Mercedes-Benz have issued factory service bulletins advising the use of concentrated Chevron Techron in repair procedures for vehicles with certain mechanical problems.

moe1942
10-11-2011, 09:43 AM
get my Sea Foam at NAPA. I would think most auto parts stores carry it. It's been around many years. Started out as fuel system cleaner for marine engines. Now it is good for any engine including diesel.

pgmrdan
10-11-2011, 10:22 AM
Shell may have changed but back in the 60's and 70's we all swore at Shell not swore by Shell.

When it came time to change spark plugs the guys that ran Shell gasoline saw all kinds of crap deposited on their plugs and switched. Almost any other gasoline fouled the plugs less than Shell's stuff.

I ran Standard gasoline and had good luck.

Isn't Mobil the one that used to advertise how their gasoline would clean your engine? I read some good stuff about their gasoline a time or two but that was a few years ago.

CCWKen
10-11-2011, 01:47 PM
30 years? That's a blink of an eye. I have an injector from the 50s. Injectors have been around since the late 1800s. One way or another, the Magazine Mechanics will always swallow a turd. :rolleyes:

motorcyclemac
10-11-2011, 02:47 PM
I used to haul Shell product. I don't run it. Now locally the refineries will vary in product quality. Here they run a lot of alcohol. I avoid it and only buy gas that comes from 1 of the local refineries that is not able to inject alcohol in the mix. That refinery supplies the local 76 stations. Alcohol leads to poor mileage and is simply a filler that burns. They would put water in your gas if they could figure out how to make it burn. WAIT...they have....mix alcohol in the gas.

Stations the deliver alcohol to the pumps don't bother to check the tanks for water anymore as the ethanol fixes that problem for them. Gas with ethanol is simply cheap ....low grade garbage. I would imagine that at some time we will all be forced to run it. For the time being I will run a product that is 100% gasoline while I can. Funny thing, the mixture they call gasoline is nowadays closer to a paint product or a solvent than the Leaded Regular of yesteryear.

gary350
10-11-2011, 04:23 PM
Those fuel injector products and designed to make someone rich. Sea Foam for example is about 60% Naptha and 40% Alcohol. You already have Alcohol in your gas why would you need more. Naptha is a good solvent but so is gasoline. For the price of 1 can of Sea Foam you can buy a whole gallon of Naptha or Alcohol at any paint store or hardware store. Why don't you save money buy a whole gallon of Naptha and pour it in your gas tank??? There is an 800% mark up on the price of Sea Foam and other fuel injector cleaner products.

All those other fuel injector products are the same way mixtures of something you can buy at any hardware store and paint store. OK so you mix a pint of your favorite fuel injector cleaner with 12 gallons of gas mixture ratio is 96 to 1. Thats only about 1% thats not strong enough to do much of anything.

My son is a Honda auto mechanic we experemented with some fuel injectors he had. Acetone is the worse thing you can put in your gas it eats up the fuel injector seals. If the seal leaks already the injector needs a new seal not acetone. That gummy stuff on the fuel injectors cleans off best with Lacquer Thinner and it causes no damage to the other parts but you need more than 96 to 1 mixture ratio for it to work fast. Buy a gallon of Lacquer thinner and pour it in your fuel tank with 5 gallons of gas it will clean off that gummy stuff but it will not fix a bad seal.

pgmrdan
10-11-2011, 05:07 PM
That may be true about Sea Foam but all I know is that it works!!!

I bought an old car and drove it for a couple months. It was all tuned up and the valves adjusted. Just not as much power as it should have had.

One day during lunch break I was driving around. The engine was through about half of its second can of Sea Foam and vroooooom (relatively speaking). The car just took off.

Coincidence? Perhaps, but I've used it on cars that are running rough and they smooth out real nice after about half a can of Sea Foam.

I'm sold on the product.

tdmidget
10-11-2011, 07:12 PM
30 years? That's a blink of an eye. I have an injector from the 50s. Injectors have been around since the late 1800s. One way or another, the Magazine Mechanics will always swallow a turd. :rolleyes:

The first successful electric injection was Bosch D Jetronic in 1967.

aboard_epsilon
10-11-2011, 07:17 PM
The first successful electric injection was Bosch D Jetronic in 1967.
followed by a less successful one ..

poor old Lucas

In 1968 the triumph 2.5 PI (petrol injection) Mark I was launched, fitted with a Lucas Automotive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucas_Automotive) mechanical fuel injection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_injection) system. Performance was very good, but the PI models (along with the TR6 models) gained a reputation for unreliability and poor fuel economy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy_in_automobiles).

all the best.markj

tdmidget
10-11-2011, 07:17 PM
Those fuel injector products and designed to make someone rich. Sea Foam for example is about 60% Naptha and 40% Alcohol. You already have Alcohol in your gas why would you need more. Naptha is a good solvent but so is gasoline. For the price of 1 can of Sea Foam you can buy a whole gallon of Naptha or Alcohol at any paint store or hardware store. Why don't you save money buy a whole gallon of Naptha and pour it in your gas tank??? There is an 800% mark up on the price of Sea Foam and other fuel injector cleaner products.

All those other fuel injector products are the same way mixtures of something you can buy at any hardware store and paint store. OK so you mix a pint of your favorite fuel injector cleaner with 12 gallons of gas mixture ratio is 96 to 1. Thats only about 1% thats not strong enough to do much of anything.

My son is a Honda auto mechanic we experemented with some fuel injectors he had. Acetone is the worse thing you can put in your gas it eats up the fuel injector seals. If the seal leaks already the injector needs a new seal not acetone. That gummy stuff on the fuel injectors cleans off best with Lacquer Thinner and it causes no damage to the other parts but you need more than 96 to 1 mixture ratio for it to work fast. Buy a gallon of Lacquer thinner and pour it in your fuel tank with 5 gallons of gas it will clean off that gummy stuff but it will not fix a bad seal.


A voice crying out in the wilderness. Gary , these snake oils are like a religion. They will never admit that their favorite brew is useless and that they were stupid to buy it.

Thruthefence
10-11-2011, 10:31 PM
Not sure how many ended up in junk yards, but Bendix had an electric FI in the fifties.

http://chrysler300country.com/rise_and_fall_of_fuel_injection.htm

RWO
10-12-2011, 04:22 PM
The first successful electric injection was Bosch D Jetronic in 1967.

Yes, I had a '68 Type III Volkswagen that had it. I drove it for 7 years and 70,000 miles. The only problem I ever had was a leaking fuel rail, easily fixed with some hose and hose clamps. The electronics never missed a beat, even the extra set of points under the breaker plate in the distributor used to triggger the injectors never wore out. The electronics were all discrete components in a box about the size of a shoe box. Today, they could probably fit it all in a couple of IC's.

RWO

tdmidget
10-12-2011, 05:55 PM
Not sure how many ended up in junk yards, but Bendix had an electric FI in the fifties.

http://chrysler300country.com/rise_and_fall_of_fuel_injection.htm


They had one on about 35 cars, none of the injection survives. All replaced and junked. There is a big difference between having one and having one that works.

Willy
10-13-2011, 12:45 AM
I see that some here have preconceived notions about fuel additives and automatically assume that if it's an additive that it must be snake oil.
Hey I'm the first to distrust claims made by the retailers who market their own particular brand of "mechanic in a can".

But one shouldn't automatically paint everything on the horizon with the same brush without at least a little research.
After having transported literally millions of gallons of fuel over a twenty five year period I was fortunate enough to be exposed to a lot of the research and development in the oil industry as it related to advancements in lubes and fuel chemistry.

The Chevron Techron I spoke highly of before has been in popular world wide use for some 30 years and is regarded as one of the most effective fuel system and upper cylinder cleaners by gasoline engine manufactures all over the globe.
This chemistry developed by Chevron is called polyether amine(PEA).
Most automakers specify fuel containing PEA in tests when their engines must undergo strict EPA emissions durability testing of 50,000 miles and 100,000 miles.
Put another way...PEAs are imperative to the proper functioning of todays electronicly controlled, gasoline fueled auto engines.

Using quality fuels will usually assure you that you are receiving at least an adequate treatment level. You can also choose to buy Techron at the retail level to augment the additives already in your fuel for a more intensive treatment regime.
Or you can buy the swill that barley meets the minimum standards as a gasoline and take your chances.

EVguru
10-13-2011, 04:30 AM
In 1968 the triumph 2.5 PI (petrol injection) Mark I was launched, fitted with a Lucas Automotive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucas_Automotive) mechanical fuel injection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_injection) system. Performance was very good, but the PI models (along with the TR6 models) gained a reputation for unreliability and poor fuel economy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy_in_automobiles).

all the best.markj

That's what you get by fitting a version of a racing injection system to a road vehicle.

Properly set up they could be powerful and nearly ecenomical (given the lump of Iron they were attatched to). Trouble is, that no system ever came out of the factory properly set up and the dealers didn't have the knowledge or equipment necessary to do it.

Early Ducati Monsters came with a race injection rather than a road one. They used Alpha/N (throttle angle and rpm) rather than speed/density. A small change in butterfly angle makes a large difference in air flow as you come off idle. Even with a non-linear throttle angle sensor the Monster could be a pig to ride at low speed unless perfectly set up (few were). New firmware or an aftermarket ECU running speed/density could completely transform the bike.

MrSleepy
10-13-2011, 05:51 AM
The first successful electric injection was Bosch D Jetronic in 1967.

Boschs first electronic fuel injection system in 66-68 was a Bendix variant developed under a Bendix patent licence agreed in 66 and developed into a mutual technical assistance agreement in 68.

The Bendix Bosch system was licenced to Nippondenso in 69 and Lucas in 71.

D Jetronic was the Bendix system and was phased out in favour of L Jetronic in 73

Rob

vpt
10-13-2011, 07:54 AM
I won't put anything but 2 cycle oil in any of my tanks any more. Seafoamed a truck, not long after it went to the scrap yard. Last can of seafoam I ever bought.

Just regular gas for this guy. We have trucks with over 350K miles on them that never seen anything but gas in the tank and they still run like new.

The 2 cycle oil I mentioned goes in the diesel trucks, it saves injectors from the dry ultra low sulfur crap they shove in our face now days.

I don't buy any "make someone rich" treatments for anything. Even if it does clean something that they claim, most of the time that means it is bad for something else!