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plunger
10-15-2011, 09:18 AM
I am trying to figure out how to make a simple power head using a 9 mm round so that I can screw it on the back of my gaff and hopefully protect myself in case I get attacked by a shark. There are very few shark attacks in my country. Eight this year and three were fatal.
Problem is I fish off a paddle ski and we have bull sharks that constantly eat our catch and then tow us for miles. It is only a matter of time when one goes for our ski.I have been harassed by a 500kg plus tiger who I had to bang on the head with my paddle and its an experience I don't want to go through again.Does anyone use one of these powerheads? Looks like a nice little project to make

hemmjo
10-15-2011, 09:44 AM
My concern would be having that device on the end of your paddle, bumping your boat and shooting your friend with the bullet. Consider using blanks. The effect of the bang stick is more from the hard contact of the device to the shark, then the discharge gasses are forced into the animal, making mush of his insides. The bullet really has little effect, it is the gas that does the work.

I can tell the story of fishing offshore out of Marathon, FLA when I was younger. A friend hooked an 8 foot shark, not sure the kind, but it was long and lean. The boat captain, put about 4 rounds from his .45 cal 1911 into the sharks head from about 4 feet as it was pulled close to the boat. I can only say that the fish did NOT like that and took off again fighting for another 15 minutes. The bullets really has little effect, it is the gas that does the work.

It is a devastating weapon, be careful with it!!!!

John

gvasale
10-15-2011, 09:46 AM
I don't know much, but from what I've heard, the load of choice was a 12 ga. shotgun round.

spongerich
10-15-2011, 10:06 AM
How about converting a Ramset power nailer? Driving a 3" nail into a shark's nose ought to slow him down.

Alistair Hosie
10-15-2011, 10:15 AM
Sharks have rights to don't they:D just kidding but a serious question can you eat the sharks ?I know that round here in Scottish waters we too have sharks but their just basking sharks harmless and dog fish which I know many people like to eat.Question is can you eat their big cousins? apart from the fins that is .I hate to hear of them being killed for their fins but anything apart from that that can generally be eaten is fine and I guess if I lived in Canada or the USA I would (if I were younger and fitter) go hunting for meat.Nothing wrong with that in my book.I have a friend his wife is a strange one a vegan man she's nuts. Wow don't get me started on her she needs a big sausage the length of her arm just like the fairy tale.:DAlistair

alanganes
10-15-2011, 10:30 AM
I don't know much, but from what I've heard, the load of choice was a 12 ga. shotgun round.

That's what I understand, too. I've never used one but have seen one in person that used a 12G shell. Maybe they come in various calibers.

To my mind, for something that gets that close to me and is potentially interested in eating me, I think I would prefer nothing less than the Mighty Twelve.

Evan
10-15-2011, 10:45 AM
Sharks are incredibly difficult to kill. Once while fishing for salmon I caught a dog shark. It was only about 3 feet long so I reeled it in on the wire line and proceeded to club it with the gaff. I didn't want to lose my line as it is very expensive.

Killing a shark is much easier said than done. They have no bones to break, only cartilage. Their brain is very rudimentary and they can "run" without it for a while like a chicken with its head off. You have to basically turn the entire fish to a pulp before it stops fighting.

Boucher
10-15-2011, 11:03 AM
One that comes to mind is a spring loaded firing pin with a short knob on the side that is locked into a cam groove in the cover tube. The knob is rotated out of its pocket to fire it. The knob can also be tripped with a spring loaded sliding tube that extends forward to be used as a push trigger. These are prohibited weapons here now. They were common when I was growing up. These were similar in concept to a single shot 22 rifle.

plunger
10-15-2011, 11:05 AM
The reason I want to use a 9mm is that it is what I legally am licensed to have. If I am caught with ammo that I don't have a license for I could go to jail and in S Africa a good looking boy like me wouldn't be able to afford a big enough jar of Vaseline.That would be a bad idea. I am hoping to only assemble it when I am at sea and only screw it on if I am harassed by a shark. When I was doing my toolmaking apprenticeship I went fishing with my journeyman and we tried a solid 12 gauge on a shark and it worked real well. I think its a good idea to use a blank. It would be much safer and less risky in terms of the law if I am caught with it. Yes sharks are real hard to kill. ,
I have no interest to kill sharks I just don't want them to kill me.They are slow growing and fished to death in some parts of the world but are an absolute menace off our reefs. They are nicknamed The Taxman.The paddle skis we fish on are real small. These sharks are not as dumb as you think. You will never catch them on bait. But the moment you catch a barracuda or tunny they eat your whole fish and then you get towed all over the place.

lazlo
10-15-2011, 11:13 AM
Bang sticks are made for underwater use only -- they use concussion to kill the shark. They're mostly home-made, so they come in any random caliber.

http://www.budsbangsticks.com/bangsticksqanda.html

I used to wreck dive a lot, and for some reason bang sticks were really popular with native Florida divers on the Gulf side (Tampa).

Personally, I found them incredibly irritating. Everything underwater, including sharks, are afraid of the sound the SCUBA regulator makes, and won't bother you. That includes big sharks like whites and tigers.

But the guys in Tampa swim around underwater, looking for sharks to kill. You have to press the bang stick against the shark's head, and push (the charge is spring-loaded). If you get him anywhere else on his body, you're just going to piss it off.

aboard_epsilon
10-15-2011, 11:58 AM
You need one of these

3:30 mins in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTbcp2R2yUQ

all the best.markj

HWooldridge
10-15-2011, 12:25 PM
A buddy of mine dives in the Caribbean with his wife and I made a bangstick for him from a piece of EMT conduit and some galvanised pipe (it did require machining). I wish I had pics but here goes with a description...The business end had a contact pad and was on a sleeve that held a 12 ga shell. The sleeve slid back on impact and the shell's primer hit a fixed firing pin and fired it. The safety was simple, a cotter key that blocked the slide but could be easily pulled out by a string. The front was threaded to allow the diver to change shells after firing. We tested the device and it fired reliably but I've never heard if he has used it - probably more for peace of mind than anything else. He got the design from another diver; I do not know the origin.

Tel
10-15-2011, 04:08 PM
Think the mechanism from an automatic centre punch - press dowm and it trips the spring, driving the punch (firing pin) forward.

Personally, I would dump the ski and get something bigger - nothing less than 25'. ;)

P.A.R.
10-15-2011, 06:27 PM
I've seen 12 g bang sticks that worked like a steer stun guns.The pellets never leave the stick,the shell is loaded backwards and the gas/recoil drives a bolt forward, its fired by hitting the shark straight on The bolt has the firing pin no trigger.
I was told that if the pellets were released it would be a Short Barrel Shotgun.
You could make the same thing in 9mm a plunger/ sear would be easy to make be sure your bullet block is heavy enough. Pat

jkilroy
10-15-2011, 07:41 PM
Get a boat, don't kill the shark because they are attracted to blood in the water, its what they do.

deltap
10-15-2011, 07:48 PM
I copied one a friend had. It attached to a spear gun. A very simple aluminum chamber only slightly longer than the .45 cartridge it held and was attached to the end of the spear with a short piece of fuel hose so that the spear point was very close to the primer. When the spear made contact with the shark the spear point fired the shell. I know it worked because he killed a shark with it.

Black_Moons
10-15-2011, 08:24 PM
As an alternative, I have heard (and seen a documentry) on sharks being extreamly susceptable to current in the water (Much below what a human would feel, let along be dangerious). Maybe a better idea is trying some kind of conductive grid on your paddle ski to a small set of batterys?

lazlo
10-15-2011, 08:57 PM
Maybe a better idea is trying some kind of conductive grid on your paddle ski to a small set of batterys?

That sounds like a profoundly bad idea -- sharks are exceptionally sensitive to micro-current... for prey.

When I was at the Naval Postgraduate School, I dove in the Monterey Bay National Marine Sanctuary a lot. The area between Monterrey and Santa Cruz is called the "Red Triangle" -- it has the highest concentration of Great Whites on Earth. The seals all bask with their tails out of the water, because whites will pull them off :)

Almost all great white attacks are cases of mistaken identity, mostly on surfers: they see the black wet suited legs dangling in the water, and think it's a seal. I dove Monterey Bay for two years, occasionally seeing great whites underwater -- they move so fast you don't have time to piss yourself. They see (or hear) the SCUBA equipment, and don't want anything to do with you.

But some of my classmates at the Naval Postgraduate School were building a portable underwater sonar device. The lucky tester put on the sonar device, went into the Marine Sanctuary, and within 20 minutes was attacked by a great white. It bit him on the tank on his back, and crushed the sonar device on his chest. Amazingly, he escaped with a bunch of puncture wounds and stitches. The MBARI marine biologists measured the bite radius on the scuba tank, and said the shark was around 18'. :eek:

wierdscience
10-15-2011, 09:53 PM
I remember reading something about a Shark stick that used a Co2 airgun cartridge as the kill method.From the description it went something like a hypodermic needle made from 1/4 SS tubing on the business end and the action of stabbing the Shark also pierced the Co2 cartridge.

Willy
10-15-2011, 10:55 PM
As an alternative, I have heard (and seen a documentry) on sharks being extreamly susceptable to current in the water (Much below what a human would feel, let along be dangerious). Maybe a better idea is trying some kind of conductive grid on your paddle ski to a small set of batterys?

Agreed.
I too have seen a number of different electronic devices to ward of sharks. Some are species specific while others claim to offer more general protection.

A quick search offered numerous results.
Below are links to a short video about Shark Shield first, followed by a another link from the makers of Shark Shield.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjtAwlvgNpQ&feature=player_embedded#!

A partial quote explaining the technology....

http://sharkshield.com/?/m/technology



The electrical wave-form used in the Shark Shield is based on a technology invented by the Natal Shark Board of South Africa.
Predatory sharks have small gel filled sacs knows as ‘Ampullae of Lorenzini’ on their snouts. They use these short range sensors when feeding or searching for food.
Shark Shield is a three-dimensional electrical wave form which creates an unpleasant sensation impacting the shark’s ‘Ampullae of Lorenzini’. When the shark comes into proximity of the electrical wave form (around 8 meters in diameter) it experiences non-damaging but uncontrollable muscular spasms causing it to flee the area. ....................

Mcostello
10-15-2011, 10:57 PM
You guys are making land sound better all the time!

Dr Stan
10-15-2011, 11:10 PM
When I served on the USS Samuel Gompers AD-37 we had a dive team on board. I made several 12 ga bang sticks, but its been so long I do not remember much of the design other than they were single shot and there was a spring to hold the shell away from the firing pin. When you jabbed the shark with the bang stick it forced the primer against the firing pin and set off the shell.

lazlo
10-15-2011, 11:29 PM
I too have seen a number of different electronic devices to ward of sharks. Some are species specific while others claim to offer more general protection.


"Some fish are unique in that they have special cells on their body surface that are electro receptors. These nerve cells have the specific capability of reading electric signals. Sharks, rays, sturgeon and catfish are some of the better known species of this type. Not only are they attracted by an anode reaction but they will use their electro receptors to find prey hidden or buried in the mud or sand. They can sense the electrical nerve discharges of their target.

In the rankings of electro sensor capabilities of all fish, sharks and rays are at the absolute top of the list. Dr. Theodore Bullock of the Scribbs Institute of Oceanography, is one of the foremost world experts on Electro reception. His book Electro reception? was published in 1986. Bullock ranks sharks as probably 1000 times more sensitive than any other fish. "



Try it and let us know how it works out! :p

Willy
10-16-2011, 12:16 AM
Well obviously accident avoidance is better than accident survivability.
The Shark Shield has demonstrated a remarkable ability to deter sharks, but is it or a shark banger 100% effective?
No!

The electronic shark deterrents do offer some protection, rather than as you stated it being a "profoundly bad idea". It beats the hell out of screaming.;)
A contact type shark banger whose ideal target is misplaced under the duress and anxiety of an aggressive shark attack is probably worse protection...by itself. A combination of the two would be better insurance.

My personal choice would be a largish boat.:)

lazlo
10-16-2011, 01:21 AM
"We're Gonna Need a Bigger Boat! (http://bluerootblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/jaws_swims_behind_chief_brody-1.jpg)" :)

Dr Stan
10-16-2011, 01:26 AM
My personal choice would be a largish boat.:)

ditto

My first "boat" had 18" of armor plate and about 100 planes on board. :D

Willy
10-16-2011, 02:27 AM
That settles it.
Dr. Stan can be the captian if he'll take us fishing on his "boat".

No stinking paddle ski for this guy.:eek:

Plunger, I hope your life insurance agent doesn't know what kind of hobbies you engage in!

plunger
10-16-2011, 09:13 AM
aboard epsilon what the hell is that thing ? A thing to kill cattle ? Blackmoons I actually live in kzn natal and the sharks board is about 800meters down the road from me. They invented a electronic device that repels sharks. I cant seem to download the link to the sharkshield that willy posted.Would be bulky to keep one on a paddle ski Space is at a premium. Even more so than in my shop Although it looks like they make one for surfboards.
Willy that is an interesting point you brought up. We paddle these skis through the surf and sometimes the surf can get big. The beauty of fishing like this is it is cheap quick and fun. You dont need any crew. However it is self regulated and no one ever checks your boat. I dont even use a life jacket. My friend warned me that if i drowned the insurance on my life may be null and void. I wonder if this is possiblehttp://i941.photobucket.com/albums/ad254/eugeneeman/EugenesFish001.jpg

Willy
10-16-2011, 09:59 AM
Nice fish!
As a sport fisherman I can certainly see why the attraction.

Try this link from South Africa, that is were the product was developed.

http://sharkshield.co.za/product.html

Jim Doherty
10-16-2011, 12:47 PM
I copied one a friend had. It attached to a spear gun. A very simple aluminum chamber only slightly longer than the .45 cartridge it held and was attached to the end of the spear with a short piece of fuel hose so that the spear point was very close to the primer. When the spear made contact with the shark the spear point fired the shell. I know it worked because he killed a shark with it.

I have some of those but they are "one shots" made from cpvc and copper with a vinyl hose to hold the spear shaft and a cotter pin safety.

side view
http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz293/jcdoherty/Picture025.jpg

view from above
http://i837.photobucket.com/albums/zz293/jcdoherty/Picture026.jpg

Yes they work and no I wouldn't want to get hit by one.

Jim Doherty

boaterri
10-16-2011, 01:00 PM
I can see how a pistol or rifle cartridge would work but how do you keep a shotgun shell dry? The end is only crimped over.

Rick

BigBoy1
10-16-2011, 01:09 PM
The reason I want to use a 9mm is that it is what I legally am licensed to have.


If you are licensed to have 9mm, why not carry an all stainless steel pistol and just use that to shoot them? Make sure to use hollow point bullets to maximize the damage. With a pistol, you will have more that one shot which I really would want to have. What happens if your single shot only makes the shark mad and does no real damage? Beside the extra firepower, a pistol is a whole lot safer to handle and use than a "bang stick."

My feeling is, if you can shot them once, you need to be able to shoot them many more times.

Westline
10-16-2011, 07:37 PM
Hey Eugene

Maybe something like this would be safer.
This unit is very pricey but a homemade can't be that hard to make.
http://www.waspknife.com/
Happy Hunting

Kobus

RetiredFAE
10-16-2011, 07:42 PM
I remember reading something about a Shark stick that used a Co2 airgun cartridge as the kill method.From the description it went something like a hypodermic needle made from 1/4 SS tubing on the business end and the action of stabbing the Shark also pierced the Co2 cartridge.

We called it "Barf the Magic Dragon", as I recall it used a 25 gram CO2 lifeboat cartridge.
It was about 3 feet long, made of titanium tubing, had a hypodermic needle shaped tip, when you tripped the release on it, it dumped the entire cartridge contents out through that tip.

The training film they showed us had it turning a large shark inside out.

I only used it once, and it worked as just as advertised.

I think it would be extremely easy to construct one.

flylo
10-16-2011, 11:25 PM
If your diving with tanks you already have high pressure air, why not rig a device using that from the high pressure reg?